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While I agree that the original comment is a logical fallacy ( hoc ergo propter hoc or correlation proves causation) I would have to disagree on preconceived notions.
North America breeds individuals and individualist culture. The whole society is based on consumerism built into its core and that is reflected through everything, including family relations. There is a huge driving force in North America behind ensuring that each individual grows up thinking that they are best off functioning and living as an individual, avoiding sharing, giving, long term relationships, attachment, etc. Everything revolves around "me" and instant gratification. This is inherently at odds with what a family stands for and what community building is all about. Further to this, because of the high living standard there is little need to band together as a community and function as a unit to get things done. Simply put, if one's life is pretty good on one's own, then there is no need for that one to band with others to raise their living standard.
If you actually do some research into sociology, psychology, and psychiatry, you will find very hard research that shows these things to be facts, not opinions. I encourage you to do so. Maybe you will understand the world around you a bit better...of if you are too lazy to do that, tell me how many of your family members and your friends family members are around every week doing something as a community and how many of your neighbors do you actually know and socialize with on regular basis?
Don't knock things you know nothing about. Even if you can single out experiences from other areas that show that there are issues of detachment and narcissistic type of individualism present, that still does nothing to refute very known facts about North America. If it makes you feel any better, UK, Germany, and a few other Northern European countries also have some of these issues, but not as bad as the cases present in North America.02-14-12 03:52 PM - I have invested in stock. But how is risk relevant here? Are we not talking about the price as a reflection of the intrinsic value?You must have taken risks and invested heavily in the stock market, as I have...you wouldn't understand.
Again, if you haven't a risk taker mentality, you will be rendered speechless.
02-14-12 04:02 PM - 1) This is completely off topic.While I agree that the original comment is a logical fallacy ( hoc ergo propter hoc or correlation proves causation) I would have to disagree on preconceived notions.
North America breeds individuals and individualist culture. The whole society is based on consumerism built into its core and that is reflected through everything, including family relations. There is a huge driving force in North America behind ensuring that each individual grows up thinking that they are best off functioning and living as an individual, avoiding sharing, giving, long term relationships, attachment, etc. Everything revolves around "me" and instant gratification. This is inherently at odds with what a family stands for and what community building is all about. Further to this, because of the high living standard there is little need to band together as a community and function as a unit to get things done. Simply put, if one's life is pretty good on one's own, then there is no need for that one to band with others to raise their living standard.
If you actually do some research into sociology, psychology, and psychiatry, you will find very hard research that shows these things to be facts, not opinions. I encourage you to do so. Maybe you will understand the world around you a bit better...of if you are too lazy to do that, tell me how many of your family members and your friends family members are around every week doing something as a community and how many of your neighbors do you actually know and socialize with on regular basis?
Don't knock things you know nothing about. Even if you can single out experiences from other areas that show that there are issues of detachment and narcissistic type of individualism present, that still does nothing to refute very known facts ab out North America. If it makes you feel any better, UK, Germany, and a few other Northern European countries also have some of these issues, but not as bad as the cases present in North America.
2) I'm not a North American
3) My family and extended family is around me 24x7
4) I know more about sociology, history and the evolution of human society than you might think.
5) Your entire post is an example of pre-conceived notions in that you believed that I dont know about these topics or am generally ignorant towards the ways of the world.
6) While every country has cultural differences which tend to work for them, there is no need to insult anyone based on their country's cultural and social setup.
7) The poster I was replying to was downright insulting and offensive towards Americans as a group. I'm not an American and understand that the American society is more individualistic than other societies, there is still no need to be uncivil about it
8) And finally societies which you might think to be less individualistic might be more than you think. The said family ties are due to lack of resources and a need to share them as a group. But you mentioned this aspect in your post so I will give you the benefit of doubt which you did not grant me and assume that you are not a ignoramus.
Now back to our regular programming of RIM vs Apple.Last edited by sam_b77; 02-14-12 at 04:42 PM.
02-14-12 04:35 PM - Desktop Manager. Just downloaded and installed ver 7. Checked for PB updates, nada.[/B]
WHAT?
Are you serious? Are you talking "OS" release or "Desktop Manager" release? Don't give me a heart-attack for no reason! Tell me! Which is it!!! Spill it!!!! 
But... Here we go... maybe this Friday after all?
02-14-12 04:37 PM - 1. Yes it is, so was your post
2. Thank you for letting me know. Unfortunately just because somebody tags their location here that does not mean much.
3. I believe that since I now know that you are from India. I can also say that most Indian families are like this because I interact with them every day. You see, observation Culturally, you are like that. It is therefore typical of your culture. There is nothing bad about that, it's just what it is.
4. Don't be offended that I said you know nothing about the topic. You brought it upon yourself as a result of making a broad statement about preconceived notions. There are no preconceived notions on these matters. They are well studied and well known. Fact that North American society is largely a "set" of individuals is a fact. It is also a fact that they have very low emphasis on family ties throughout their life. See, unlike you I actually explained the cause behind that (they are not born with it just to be crystal clear), as opposed to just saying, and I paraphrase "I know, and you should be quiet because you don't know what I do or don't know".
5. Defending your argument by repeating the same thing that established your original argument does not make your argument stronger. Also, I did not imply that you are ignorant to the ways of the world, just on the particular topic. Besides, I do not even understand why this bothers you so much. Cultural differences do exist and are very strongly delineated. This was even discussed by very famous psychologists and is effectively defined as a "personality" of a society. If you want more reading, there is actually a good definition for "culture" to be found here http://nptel.iitm.ac.in/courses/1101...le%207l-35.pdf. Just do a search for "personality of a society".
6. Nobody was being insulted, unless some Americans do not like being told that they are not perfect (which some may not like). I do not understand why you are making this a personal issue for yourself. I've had some very unpleasant experiences with cultural tolerances, nationalism, and racism myself but I'm not afraid to talk about it.
7. Actually, no he was not. He simply stated that Americans (I would correct him on that and say North Americans) are generally not family or communally inclined which is the de-facto truth. There is no grey area there. His premise and conclusion did not follow though.
8. Not everything in life is so "indeterminate" as you think. Individuals exist everywhere, and gradients do too, but a particular culture as a whole is a mirror reflection of the general belief and value system of a given group. That also is a fact. There is nothing there to be interpreted. Family ties are much more than just a lack of resources.
Anyway, you actually seem like you are pretty bright, but maybe a bit naive in wanting to have this utter sense of equality and political correctness around everything. There is no need for that. People need to see things for what they are if they are ever to progress. I will leave it up to you to define "progress" in this case as I do not have one definition or one path that would define it precisely.
Last edited by dejanh; 02-14-12 at 06:26 PM.
02-14-12 06:21 PM - OK, I didn't have time before, but let me summarize this thread now without going into theory to much:
There are people in this thread who claim that the stock price does not reflect the true value of the company (given all the information/expectations) and RIM is undervalued way too much (current price < true value).
In other words, they claim they know better than the market with all the investors, both individual and institutional. This is a very strong claim. I would call it simply nonsense.
If the above was true and you, guys, somehow knew RIM was significantly undervalued, you most likely wouldn't be wasting your time here on this forum but would be flying your own private jet to a corporate meeting or some exotic place to rest after working very hard making billions using your unique ability to know better than everyone else02-14-12 07:09 PM - lol... wow...While I agree that the original comment is a logical fallacy ( hoc ergo propter hoc or correlation proves causation) I would have to disagree on preconceived notions.
North America breeds individuals and individualist culture. The whole society is based on consumerism built into its core and that is reflected through everything, including family relations. There is a huge driving force in North America behind ensuring that each individual grows up thinking that they are best off functioning and living as an individual, avoiding sharing, giving, long term relationships, attachment, etc. Everything revolves around "me" and instant gratification. This is inherently at odds with what a family stands for and what community building is all about. Further to this, because of the high living standard there is little need to band together as a community and function as a unit to get things done. Simply put, if one's life is pretty good on one's own, then there is no need for that one to band with others to raise their living standard.
If you actually do some research into sociology, psychology, and psychiatry, you will find very hard research that shows these things to be facts, not opinions. I encourage you to do so. Maybe you will understand the world around you a bit better...of if you are too lazy to do that, tell me how many of your family members and your friends family members are around every week doing something as a community and how many of your neighbors do you actually know and socialize with on regular basis?
Don't knock things you know nothing about. Even if you can single out experiences from other areas that show that there are issues of detachment and narcissistic type of individualism present, that still does nothing to refute very known facts about North America. If it makes you feel any better, UK, Germany, and a few other Northern European countries also have some of these issues, but not as bad as the cases present in North America.02-14-12 07:21 PM
