[i_plod_an_dr_void]

Yeah that's not going to work. BB essentially tells consumers this now (even though it isn't really true) and its been proven time and time again that in the consumer space that privacy isn't by itself going to sell phones.

Yup google, facebook, twitter snap and the hordes of app companies tell us that everyday, along with convincing the telcos that there should be no other smartphone model choice. ....why? Well because that's their bread and butter....why is it that only governments and corporate boards should have privacy as the exclusive domain only for themselves? One Google/smartphone ring to rule them all, is probably why.

[i_plod_an_dr_void]

BB10 fits the bill, but maybe it needs some vitamin fortifications or wall between it and the android runtime, not just for app access but file, cloud,messaging,contact,camera and microphone separation, built-into the bb10 os with more. Such that the android funtime has its space and access features still user modifiable as currently works in bb10's android sandbox , but no access to the bb10-secure side, and the switch between the two (or customs control) should be quick and easy. But this model totally needs a subscription based model to go along with it to tweak the os now and again as necessary. QNX is the gifted OS capable of this.

[i_plod_an_dr_void]

iCould see the telco/bestbuy adds for this device right now..........You don't pay us $100 on select plans like those other phones, we pay you $100 on select BlackBerry Bold9900 like device plans.

[eshropshire]

[Citation needed]

I agree, show me real data supporting this statement. If anything I am seeing the opposite. Buyers tend to purchase from companies with bigger marketshare. Smartphone sells are slowing but this happens in a saturated market. People are keeping their phones for longer periods. The days of the 2year upgrade cycle are gone. This change is having an impact on sales.

[eshropshire]

I think there are two potential markets, though I don't know if they''re actually viable:

1) Consumers who want to unplug from their apps for a few hours, days or indefinitely and who would be attracted to a simpler phone.

2) Businesses who want to issue limited function phones to employees in regulated industries.

Posted with my trusty Z10

I tend to disagree on consumers - at least in Western markets. Cell phone plans with data are expensive. I see almost no market for something between feature phones and smartphones. At least not enough to get someone interested in taking on the expense of building the device.

The challenge with regulated industries is they have already solved this problem with automated policies backed by solid MDM solutions. I don't see any of my customers wanting to revamp their offerings. One key challenge (at least in the USA) companies are facing is recruiting and retaining young highly skilled workers. Young workers will leave companies with outdated technologies (based on current documented HR trends). Any company that handed one of their highly sought after recruits a phone like this would have it thrown back at them while the recruit laughs as they take a job at a rival firm. Where I live and recruit our unemployment rate is around 3%, but the high tech rate is much lower. The competition for employees is tough.

[Zidentia]

In "theory " it could work. You would need to strip our the ART and write new drivers for the soc. A lot of the early pure BB10 apps were enterprise only and the bridge to the QNX market is easy to traverse with BB10. There are still apps being made for QNX for several industries that would be able to be ported to a stripped down version on BB10. In turn these phones would have better integration With critical and non critical sub systems for engineers and technicians.

Chen would have to go back to the bes model and allow for low license fees.


Posted via CB10

[the_boon]

I agree, show me real data supporting this statement. If anything I am seeing the opposite. Buyers tend to purchase from companies with bigger marketshare. Smartphone sells are slowing but this happens in a saturated market. People are keeping their phones for longer periods. The days of the 2year upgrade cycle are gone. This change is having an impact on sales.

Do they really? I don't know man, with OEM's opting for fragile glass instead of the hard plastic of the old days and phones being packed with more sensitive components designs harder and harder to disassemble to replace screens and batteries, etc

[Chuck Finley69]

Do they really? I don't know man, with OEM's opting for fragile glass instead of the hard plastic of the old days and phones being packed with more sensitive components designs harder and harder to disassemble to replace screens and batteries, etc

There's no denying we're in a similar phase to non-mobile OS maturation going into the late 90's to early 00's with IOS/Windows. The OEMs and the carriers are looking for ways to combat any slowdown cycle.

Planned obsolescence is an obvious traditional strategy that's always opposed by customers small and large alike.

Hardware and software obsolescence strategies are sometimes diametrically opposed due to budgetary constraints. The larger customers will dictate the future with the carriers and OEMs. The outliers will be the future of BYOD and whether the hardware savings are truly beneficial into the overall cost of total corporate network expenditures.

[i_plod_an_dr_void]

I tend to disagree on consumers - at least in Western markets. Cell phone plans with data are expensive. I see almost no market for something between feature phones and smartphones. ..

How about parents with 2-3 or more kids on a budget, up to 5phones gets a bit hefty. I don't think we're talking feature phone, are we really? I think we're just talking about monetizing some of that huge quality bb10 investment that hasn't quite yet been realized, so it's a full smartphone bb10 style.

... One key challenge (at least in the USA) companies are facing is recruiting and retaining young highly skilled workers. Young workers will leave companies with outdated technologies (based on current documented HR trends). Any company that handed one of their highly sought after recruits a phone like this would have it thrown back at them while the recruit laughs as they take a job at a rival firm. Where I live and recruit our unemployment rate is around 3%, but the high tech rate is much lower. The competition for employees is tough.

I wouldn't say bb10 is outdated, app deprived, maybe...but maybe some companies like that lack of slot-machine app distraction during the workday...and it doesn't take too much to port android apps generally now, does it (As I hear) ..even for silli-valley employees...not the fastest processor? Well you can't text or talk faster than the processor anyways. Web browser loading while at lunch a tad slower?..I doubt that will cause a job change. Its all about the work-flow for some. ..don't think you need to strip the ART either.

[eshropshire]

How about parents with 2-3 or more kids on a budget, up to 5phones gets a bit hefty. I don't think we're talking feature phone, are we really? I think we're just talking about monetizing some of that huge quality bb10 investment that hasn't quite yet been realized, so it's a full smartphone bb10 style.

I wouldn't say bb10 is outdated, app deprived, maybe...but maybe some companies like that lack of slot-machine app distraction during the workday...and it doesn't take too much to port android apps generally now, does it (As I hear) ..even for silli-valley employees...not the fastest processor? Well you can't text or talk faster than the processor anyways. Web browser loading while at lunch a tad slower?..I doubt that will cause a job change. Its all about the work-flow for some. ..don't think you need to strip the ART either.

First I am not talking about BB10. I don't live on fantasy Island and do not fantasize about a company reviving a product on an announced EOL path.

I am taking about the concept of a phone that does texting, email and maybe web browsing. All of this in the form factor of a BBOS phone, not BB10.

For parents there are already very good budget option phones. If parents don't want to pay for a data plan they have to go the feature phone route. At least in the USA once a phone consumes data the carriers consider it a smartphone and gets a data plan.

[Emaderton3]

I'm sorry but people these days demand certain features on a phone even if they are work phones. And Internet and a modern browser are one of them.

[Bla1ze]

Android without access to the Play Store or apps? I don't think that's possible. The whole point of the phone he's suggesting is to eliminate all the risks of third party apps for highly regulated environments.

Personally, I think this is the market BlackBerry should have targeted from the start with BB10 instead of trying to break into the Android / iOS BYOD duopoly with consumers.

Exactly. This is why the licensing of a basic BB10 install makes sense. It's largely already stripped.

[Bla1ze]

I'm sorry but people these days demand certain features on a phone even if they are work phones. And Internet and a modern browser are one of them.

You're thinking of this too broadly. You're not alone, though, so many people misconstrued the concept here. It's not meant to be handed out to employees and taken home at the end of the night and otherwise used. It's a dumb, locked down device that's meant for internal use. Offers the basic needs of an organization. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's the equivalent of a walkie-talkie you pick up at the start of your shift and turn in at the end of the day. Or to put it in a more modern relation, it's like the iPhones Apple hands out to Apple store employees. They're locked down AF and only serve as a outlet for internal comms and a endpoint for the point of sale system.

Anyone talking about updating the Android Runtime or whatever else to make it more of a consumer thing, totally missed the point.

[LuxuryTouringZone]

If Mister Chen really wants a modern workhorse phone, then he might just want to consider extending BlackBerry 10's expiry date. They can do everything the 9900 does, but more and far better.

[bb10adopter111]

I tend to disagree on consumers - at least in Western markets. Cell phone plans with data are expensive. I see almost no market for something between feature phones and smartphones. At least not enough to get someone interested in taking on the expense of building the device.

The challenge with regulated industries is they have already solved this problem with automated policies backed by solid MDM solutions. I don't see any of my customers wanting to revamp their offerings. One key challenge (at least in the USA) companies are facing is recruiting and retaining young highly skilled workers. Young workers will leave companies with outdated technologies (based on current documented HR trends). Any company that handed one of their highly sought after recruits a phone like this would have it thrown back at them while the recruit laughs as they take a job at a rival firm. Where I live and recruit our unemployment rate is around 3%, but the high tech rate is much lower. The competition for employees is tough.

As I said, I wasn't arguing that either market was viable. I was just describing the attributes.

[Emaderton3]

You're thinking of this too broadly. You're not alone, though, so many people misconstrued the concept here. It's not meant to be handed out to employees and taken home at the end of the night and otherwise used. It's a dumb, locked down device that's meant for internal use. Offers the basic needs of an organization. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's the equivalent of a walkie-talkie you pick up at the start of your shift and turn in at the end of the day. Or to put it in a more modern relation, it's like the iPhones Apple hands out to Apple store employees. They're locked down AF and only serve as a outlet for internal comms and a endpoint for the point of sale system.

Anyone talking about updating the Android Runtime or whatever else to make it more of a consumer thing, totally missed the point.

Oh I know. But people are going to need to look things up. Even highly regulated industries now happily use regular phones with limitations but can still do most tasks.

I understand what is being said. I just have a hard time believing there is a huge market for it. And even if limitations were needed, couldn't the IT Department just block certain functions on the phone?

[Bla1ze]

Oh I know. But people are going to need to look things up. Even highly regulated industries now happily use regular phones with limitations but can still do most tasks.

I understand what is being said. I just have a hard time believing there is a huge market for it. And even if limitations were needed, couldn't the IT Department just block certain functions on the phone?

Big market, probably not. And sure, IT could lock things down but there's always that risk of people being able to bypass it. If the functions don't exist, you minimize the risk entirely.

[Nguyen1]

I have a crazy idea. Why not make a basic cellphone with some of these BB10 security features BUT....use removable, rechargeable AAA batteries (say, 3 in tandem). A basic phone doesn't need that much power, and AAAs will basically be an inexhaustible supply of batteries forever. No fear about proprietary batteries.

Too thick, you say? Why should regulated industry care? Pagers used to be thick, too, and everyone used them just fine in the past. Cellphones just a decade ago were thick, too. It'd be a work phone, so who cares? Plus, such a phone would be a tank; you won't break it. Carry any personal phone you prefer for your personal needs/pleasure, but use that clunky pager-sized basic phone for work.

I can see this in a construction company (why use a $600 Cat phone when you can use a $150 fleet phone just as indestructible and easily replaceable?)

[idssteve]

Chen describes my use case. Tangibly valid for SOME of us. Not saying there's a huge market of "me" out there but that doesn't make the use case any less essential to SOME of us.

Is there space for ANYthing that's not Samsung in this saturated market? Idk. Does ANYone know?? This industry is still evolving. Users are maturing. Experiments with smart watches and even smart rings indicate SOME embryonic level of curiosity about compactness.

I can personally attest, fwiw, that this six+ year old 9930 is in MY hand, this moment, because of its exquisitely compact functionality. My K1, D60, Z30, Classic and Passport all stand ready & charging on my desk. This compact 9930 is what my hand chose this morning. Most mornings. What more can I say?

If Chen, TCL, or someone, can make the numbers work and find a way to stuff Classic, or even K1, guts into 9900 chassis, I'm ALL in. At almost ANY price! Even over $1k!! My company is all in, as well. 9900 form factor is SO "goldilocks just right"...

.

[Bbnivende]

Chen describes my use case. Tangibly valid for SOME of us. Not saying there's a huge market of "me" out there but that doesn't make the use case any less essential to SOME of us.

Is there space for ANYthing that's not Samsung in this saturated market? Idk. Does ANYone know?? This industry is still evolving. Users are maturing. Experiments with smart watches and even smart rings indicate SOME embryonic level of curiosity about compactness.

I can personally attest, fwiw, that this six+ year old 9930 is in MY hand, this moment, because of its exquisitely compact functionality. My K1, D60, Z30, Classic and Passport all stand ready & charging on my desk. This compact 9930 is what my hand chose this morning. Most mornings. What more can I say?

If Chen, TCL, or someone, can make the numbers work and find a way to stuff Classic, or even K1, guts into 9900 chassis, I'm ALL in. At almost ANY price! Even over $1k!! My company is all in, as well. 9900 form factor is SO "goldilocks just right"...

.

How does Chen describe your use case? He was talking about a phone that fully locked down and has no apps. The device could have a physical keyboard but more than likely it could be anything that runs his Secure but dumbed down software.

Is there a need for a fully locked down “dumb phone” in the Enterprise sector?

TCL wants to build a premium phone brand. Chen’s vision of a company phone does not jive with what TCL is attempting to do.

[idssteve]

How does Chen describe your use case? He was talking about a phone that fully locked down and has no apps. The device could have a physical keyboard but more than likely it could be anything that runs his Secure but dumbed down software.

Is there a need for a fully locked down “dumb phone” in the Enterprise sector?

TCL wants to build a premium phone brand. Chen’s vision of a company phone does not jive with what TCL is attempting to do.

YES, we are using "dumbed down" 9900's at this jobsite, this minute. We would historically use them as wifi data entry handsets but, thanks to KRACK, these are on vzw but pretty basic. Mostly only our own, home brew, apps. We are sharing "air space" at this remote jobsite with several tech savvy competitors. We take our clients' and our own IP and NDA's seriously and have implemented multiple strategies for assuring security but would certainly sleep better if a single handed capable handset with updated patches were available. We're using these 99s mostly as data entry and for coordinating multiple activities during an initial plant startup. Among 14 coworkers, today. Far too noisy for practical voice. Single handed sms rules this activity.

Naturally, we represent a tiny portion of sales potential but the usefulness of Chen's concept does have practical application. For how many, shouild be up to market research resources far beyond anyone around here, imo. Chen's "dream" parallels mine pretty closely. Which means next to zero hope of ever seeing it. Lol.

[Bbnivende]

I would suggest that Chen does not believe that TCL , a Chinese handset maker, can make any inroads into the traditional carrier controlled Enterprise market. This type of device is in the wheelhouse of Punkt , a company that might sell a simple secure no apps device. Maybe this is the messaging and the 9900 idea is just a red herring.

[stlabrat]

gmail drive me bonkers. personally, I wouldn't mind to get a handset with subscription fee of 3-5 dollars per month for email (no geo taging, no ads). gmail web browser dependent (recent google just outted set of old browsers that no longer support)... I can see a basic handsets ready for 5G.
(1) simple email hosting - either corp behind BES or personal with BB consumer extension for subscription fee.
(2) web based browsing - no app, no pokemon
(3) basic set of on board key application, BB map (no google map - never use it again after it sent me to a lawyer's old office with fancy street image that totally out of date) that link with latest yellow page. dictionary, calculator, currency exchange, and BB travel... etc.etc. oh, plus night sky... and may be geo-tag (user activated) for hiking... no fitbit heat map.
(4) camera = sure why not. just basic editing should do.
based on above, any processor (2018) would do plus 2 Gb memory and SD slot... no game, no social media, youtube, etc. etc.
no ART...
Chen get rid of most priced server farm of BB (in multiple countries)... and hardware, it hard to get it back in the game... because the perception of BB is no longer in the handset business he spent his past time to engraved such an image worldwide (even K1 cannot erase it). IMHO.

[Bbnivende]

Chen’s target for the BlackBerry Lockdown appears to be Enterprise and other regulated entities and not consumers. Chen would need to he shown how he could revive their older BBOS type model. Perhaps a third party could operate as a surrogate Enterprise and enroll consumers as ”employees”. Perhaps BlackBerry could do that for a fee.

[conite]

Chen’s target for the BlackBerry Lockdown appears to be Enterprise and other regulated entities and not consumers. Chen would need to he shown how he could revive their older BBOS type model. Perhaps a third party could operate as a surrogate Enterprise and enroll consumers as ”employees”. Perhaps BlackBerry could do that for a fee.

There are no BBOS or BB10 developers left. Ramp up would be insanely expensive.

Better to build something around Android Go and lock it down by stripping it clean and using UEM. Nor would you need any custom drivers to use modern/current hardware.