[Chuck Finley69]

Is an E-mail program or a Browser an App or not?

I'm not talking about Third Party developers at all.

The Bold 9900 was not E-mail/Phone/SMS exclusively, nor is BB10 if you could magically obliterate Android apps (or even Blackberry world access). FIRST party functions are what I'm talking about. It's software for the Mobile Device.

Is that "app enabled" or not?

Keep in mind that Chen proposed and idea for some other company to spend the money and license from BlackBerry.

That alone is telling about capital requirements and viability. Just like with BBAndroid, Chen is willing to sell you a license and cash your minimum expenditure checks every month or quarter.

[Chuck Finley69]

This is why Chen should keep his mouth shut. Now he has people thinking a 9900 is coming or BB10 will live or whatever. It was just some off the cuff comment. None of this is in the works or likely has even been mentioned or ever talked about in my opinion.

I don't see the harm in mentioning his "thoughts" . His job is to sell BB licensing and other IP. As long as it makes BB money, he could license secure appliances to Kenmore sold through Sears Canada if someone writes a big enough check and it clears.

[terminatorx]

Android without access to the Play Store or apps? I don't think that's possible. The whole point of the phone he's suggesting is to eliminate all the risks of third party apps for highly regulated environments.

Personally, I think this is the market BlackBerry should have targeted from the start with BB10 instead of trying to break into the Android / iOS BYOD duopoly with consumers.

Not sure where you got all that from, just by reading the short article I linked to.

My take on it is that he is referring to a small hand size phone overall, as in the style of the bold.

Yes he makes a reference to security by saying, "Bold-like device would be good fit for professionals who need a simple and secure device that isn’t too fancy but still gets the jobs done." IMO it sounds like he is not talking about BB10, but a BB Android version like K1.

[KAM1138]

It sure is.

BB10 had 243 apps as part of its "out-of-the-box" OS. Any and all of those would almost need to be redesigned from scratch.

Ok, I'm trying to understand your distinction here. Is the feature you use for E-mail or Messaging an "app". I think it is, so then ANY phone is "app enabled" under the 'all or nothing' situation you suggest isn't it?

243 Apps...wow, sounds like a TON of features doesn't it? Almost as if it would suit the needs of many, many users...out of the box. Either that or you've got a lot of worthless junk that you can set aside and as an "app" not install/include it.

Redesigned from Scratch...ok, why is that again? Is it because of the changes that would take place by removing the Android Run time? Because literally...I use a BB10 device every day that is NEARLY "out of the box" (I do have a few third party apps).

Is it because it would have to be applied to new hardware and BB10 is incapable of being adapted in any way except burning it all down and starting again (ie, from Scratch).

As I said in the other thread--I'm not sure how all this intertwining of programing works, but from what you and others have said, it's not easy to just remove parts (like Android Run Time--for example).

[KAM1138]

Keep in mind that Chen proposed and idea for some other company to spend the money and license from BlackBerry.

That alone is telling about capital requirements and viability. Just like with BBAndroid, Chen is willing to sell you a license and cash your minimum expenditure checks every month or quarter.

Yeah, I don't expect that any of that implies that BlackBerry (the "software company") intends to actually create this product.

[Carjackd]

There are probably more leftover than the number of Q5s they ever sold. Which is about 9.

10! You forgot the one in my display case

[conite]

Ok, I'm trying to understand your distinction here. Is the feature you use for E-mail or Messaging an "app". I think it is, so then ANY phone is "app enabled" under the 'all or nothing' situation you suggest isn't it?

243 Apps...wow, sounds like a TON of features doesn't it? Almost as if it would suit the needs of many, many users...out of the box. Either that or you've got a lot of worthless junk that you can set aside and as an "app" not install/include it.

Redesigned from Scratch...ok, why is that again? Is it because of the changes that would take place by removing the Android Run time? Because literally...I use a device every day that is NEARLY "out of the box" (I do have a few third party apps).

Is it because it would have to be applied to new hardware and BB10 is incapable of being adapted in any way except burning it all down and starting again (ie, from Scratch).

As I said in the other thread--I'm not sure how all this intertwining of programing works, but from what you and others have said, it's not easy to just remove parts (like Android Run Time--for example).

I feel like I'm repeating myself now.

Limiting apps to just a proprietary email and SMS client is easier, because you don't need all of the OS infrastructure.

If you bring in the need for other apps, all of that falls away, and you now need a full fledged OS.

[Chuck Finley69]

10! You forgot the one in my display case

Does that include the Q5 I bought last year too? Conite, you've shortchanged the magnitude of the Q5 by at least one dozen.

[KAM1138]

I feel like I'm repeating myself now.

Limiting apps to just a proprietary email and SMS client is easier, because you don't need all of the OS infrastructure.

If you bring in the need for other apps, all of that falls away, and you now need a full fledged OS.

I'm going on what you said--trying to understand where you're drawing your distinctions.
You said: "You either have a full app-enabled OS, or you don't. There is no in between."

If an E-mail program or messaging program is an "App" then according to your statement it is "an app enabled OS."

So, if you have E-mail and SMS, it's NOT full Fledged, but add a Clock and a calculator (for example) then it IS full fledged?

According to your statement, there is no in-between, so I'm trying to understand how running an e-mail APP isn't then "an OS that runs apps."

I'm not trying to say features aren''t more complex--I'm trying to resolve your statement about All or nothing in regards to apps (of any kind). Is there something inherently simpler about an E-mail app vs a Clock or Calendar or Calculator?

[conite]

I'm going on what you said--trying to understand where you're drawing your distinctions.
You said: "You either have a full app-enabled OS, or you don't. There is no in between."

If an E-mail program or messaging program is an "App" then according to your statement it is "an app enabled OS."

So, if you have E-mail and SMS, it's NOT full Fledged, but add a Clock and a calculator (for example) then it IS full fledged?

According to your statement, there is no in-between, so I'm trying to understand how running an e-mail APP isn't then "an OS that runs apps."

I'm not trying to say features aren''t more complex--I'm trying to resolve your statement about All or nothing in regards to apps (of any kind). Is there something inherently simpler about an E-mail app vs a Clock or Calendar or Calculator?

Let's differentiate then between a PDA-style "app" and a real one like Airwatch, Office, Slack, Telegram, or Good Dynamics, etc, etc.

All the information I have to give is already here. You've exhausted me. Lol.

[KAM1138]

To be clear--when Chen was talking about a Device like a 9900 I was envisioning a Device that had functions similar to that--which were fairly extensive. It wasn't Just Phone/E-mail/SMS.

The line that seems COULD be drawn is simply between first party and third party apps. Would that result in a significantly simpler system, better security, etc?

[conite]

To be clear--when Chen was talking about a Device like a 9900 I was envisioning a Device that had functions similar to that--which were fairly extensive. It wasn't Just Phone/E-mail/SMS.

The line that seems COULD be drawn is simply between first party and third party apps. Would that result in a significantly simpler system, better security, etc?

1st or 3rd is irrelevant. It's the complexity that matters - and who is going to build it.

[KAM1138]

Ok, sure. When I talk about "first party apps" I'm thinking mostly about "PDA Style Apps." OR...Blackberry (in house) Out-of-the-Box Apps.
Of course, I am also assuming a Modern functional (if simple) Web Browser.

That said...my first PDA ran a version of Word and Excel...but that's neither here nor there.

[ray689]

I don't see the harm in mentioning his "thoughts" . His job is to sell BB licensing and other IP. As long as it makes BB money, he could license secure appliances to Kenmore sold through Sears Canada if someone writes a big enough check and it clears.

Of course he can and should. But he is bringing it up at some random interview. If he really wants to make things happen with licencing secure android then he needs to sell it to companies. Not mention it off the cuff and hope they contact him.

[KAM1138]

1st or 3rd is irrelevant. It's the complexity that matters - and who is going to build it.

Why is third party not more complex? Doesn't user-installed/App store functionality mean more complexity?

Would BB10 be more or less complex without Android Runtime?

[eshropshire]

Could be a neat KaiOS or Sailfish 3 device but I'm not sure if either (including BB Android) can be used in regulated industries like BB10 is/was.

Which regulated industries does BB10 have current certifications for that other OSs do not?

[conite]

Why is third party not more complex? Doesn't user-installed/App store functionality mean more complexity?

Would BB10 be more or less complex without Android Runtime?

Android Runtime has to come out by OHA regs anyway - and it would cost a fortune to do so.

I'm not referring to appstore infrastructure, I'm referring to OS complexity.

[KAM1138]

Android Runtime has to come out by OHA regs anyway - and it would cost a fortune to do so.

I'm not referring to appstore infrastructure, I'm referring to OS complexity.

So, is the OS not made more complex by having Android Run time?

Was this always part of BB10 or did an earlier version not include it?

KAM

Posted via CB10

[conite]

So, is the OS not made more complex by having Android Run time?

Was this always part of BB10 or did an earlier version not include it?

KAM

Posted via CB10

It always had it. Adding it certainly adds to the complexity. It needs to be managed.

[Bbnivende]

Well, what about Government? Also--while Chen stated E-mail and SMS, that's not a hard line (he mentioned a browser I think). Other Features could be included, which could encompass the things that most users use the majority of the time.

The government bodies and Corporations that I am familiar with have moved on to iOS. I was surprised when one person said that he had to give back his PRIV.

[mvsalvino]

My big problem with BB10 wasn't the lack of apps, it was a lack of: hardware updates (mobile bands), software updates (browser), and carrier support (broken WiFi calling, etc).

If they ripped out the ART and updated the browser in a 9900 form factor with latest radio bands, I would buy it immediately.

The problem with BB10 was lack of support more than lack of features. Carriers barely supported it, all hardware was from 2013 (except passport), and you basically had to use autoloaders to get updates. With good support it could thrive in a small niche.

[Invictus0]

Which regulated industries does BB10 have current certifications for that other OSs do not?

Keep in mind that there are usually layers to this kind of stuff but governments are a good example. OEM's and devices need to be certified which can take a long time, in Canada it took Samsung years to join BlackBerry as an authorized OEM (they're the only two).

https://mobilesyrup.com/2017/08/01/s...rnment-market/

I doubt KaiOS or Sailfish3 have gone through this process yet and when the above news broke last year it was implied that BB Android was still playing catchup to BB 10.3.3 (the articles are behind a paywall now unfortunately but here's the link anyway),

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...ticle35840810/

Personally, I think a retro BlackBerry device for consumers is more appealing.

[eshropshire]

Here is the problem with retro devices - who wants to make a sub $200 device that will at best return maybe $35-50? I don't see any quality manufacturers willing to take the risk for so little return.

[donnation]

Here is the problem with retro devices - who wants to make a sub $200 device that will at best return maybe $35-50? I don't see any quality manufacturers willing to take the risk for so little return.

Hopefully no one because it wouldn’t sell for **** outside of the diehards in here who would want to relive the Glory days of B.B.

Chen is a moron when it comes to hardware. He can’t speak to it and certainly isn’t at all qualified to recommend a type of device that he thinks would sell.

[DWonder]

Here is the problem with retro devices - who wants to make a sub $200 device that will at best return maybe $35-50? I don't see any quality manufacturers willing to take the risk for so little return.

Maybe since software is doin good he wants to just test the waters with a cheap basic phone and see how it does. If they have a little change to spare why not? It's "his" money to lose. I'll be buyin one ;-)