[RLTurn77]

Everybody seems to be ignoring my thoughts on this and I've copied some of my comments from the front page article for your pleasure and as a brain teaser. Nobody wants to acknowledge the OHA and Google's TOS. Hopefully we will know come Tuesday. To the first poster to solve this mystery correctly (prior to Tuesday); you win. Keep in mind I just gave away a BlackBerry Z30 in the Pay it Forward thread so my word is good. I will gladly send the correct poster something BlackBerry interesting via USPS (US) only via chat through BBM. I am making the assumption this will be addressed come Tuesday during ER/CC:

BlackBerry cannot run a device with Android along with another device running BB10. They cannot use a dual boot type of device either. The only way this is allowed as per Google would be if BlackBerry completely removes the Android runtime from BB10 which would completely cripple the OS.

There may be something factual to these rumors, but people need to understand Google's terms for use of their OS. The brand BlackBerry, again, cannot run both Android and BB10 side by side unless they remove the runtime in BB10 as it is considered forked.

There is an unlikely possibility that the Google partnership and securing Android end to end may result in Google changing their terms, but that is extremely unlikely and would leave Google in a mess with other manufacturers. Google is looking out for themselves as they should be.

Another poster commented on the possibility of the same device running Android, but Samsung branded with the BlackBerry version running BB10 and BlackBerry branded. This is the type of thinking needed in my opinion. Maybe we will find out more on Tuesday, but as soon as these rumors surfaced BlackBerry stated that they are committed to BlackBerry 10.

BlackBerry could run both and remove the runtime and leave BB10 for governments only (basically). The runtime is too integral to the OS though as far as I see and BlackBerry could then say goodbye to most BB10 owners.

I'm not going through all the pages of comments to repeat myself regarding what Google has to say about manufacturers that run Android.

If BlackBerry does indeed put out a full Android device under the BlackBerry brand then they will have to remove the runtime from BB10 therefore devastating the OS.

This will be 10.3.3... BB10 without the Android runtime which would make the device useless for many including myself. BB10 would be then only use able for governments or those that need the highest security if the runtime is lost. I can take concessions for BlackBerry security, OS, and as a fan... but this is not how this will play out. Think outside the box.

BlackBerry stated that they are committed to BlackBerry 10 as soon as the rumors hit so take that for what it is worth. Maybe Chen is a genius and manipulated Google to allow BB10 to run alongside Android, never say never but really?

As for not providing anything credible, I will dig deeper if you'd like (just did a quick search) but this article regarding Amazon and HTC gives some insight into why the runtime goes with the release of a BlackBerry branded Android...

Report: Amazon and HTC team up to build smartphones, risk ire of Google | Ars Technica...

Here is the essential take from the article, not to mention Google's wrath if you do not obey the OHA...

"Building a device that runs a fork of Android is something that HTC is expressly forbidden from doing as per its membership in the Open Handset Alliance (OHA), Google's cabal of Android Google app licensees. Members get access to the Play Store, Gmail, Google Maps, and all the other Google apps for Android. OHA members commit to building one Android platform�Google's platform�and not shipping devices that run forks of Android."

Again, BlackBerry running both Android and BB10 will see a removal of the runtime. I don't believe this will be the case though so we are all missing something at the moment.

I posted this with additional info above to your claim that I keep posting about the OHA with no merit. I'm aware of many of the terms in the OHA set by Google and it is all to benefit them; not BlackBerry or any other company. This is why Google has already begun coercing devs into adding Google Services to crack down on forking Android... just did a quick search for "OHA forked Android" and quoted the first article I saw. There are plenty more.

Again, not sure why people think I would lie about BlackBerry being unable to run Android and BB10 side by side without removing the runtime. I'm a huge BlackBerry fanboy and would love to have both options, but not at the expense of sacrificing BB10 for consumers which removing the runtime would do. I don't think BlackBerry/Chen would really go this route which is why I offered for members to think outside of the box here.

All I've seen since is either Android is terrible and won't save BlackBerry or it is a great idea and BlackBerry should release their devices with Android and BB10 without addressing the OHA.

Posted via CB10

[Fidel Mercado]

Solution: BlackBerry may run Amazons Android fork(Fire OS)-to avoid joining the OHA altogether.
Any and all members of the OHA are forbidden to build handsets for Amazon, however that doesn't mean Amazon isn't running on Android. It simply means Amazon does not have the Google play ecosystem. BlackBerry could team up with Amazon to run thier Android fork which allow access to developer apps who have blocked apps from running on BB'S android runtime. The only downfall is no Google play access, but they could still run android using Amazons android fork-and now have access to blocked apps and the runtime can remain on BB10.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[misterabrasive]

I think the real mystery here is how anyone could read through all this repetitive blather and never find out what the mystery is. If running Android is so important to you, then go buy an Android phone. The presumption that the BlackBerry 10 OS would be completely destroyed without the Android runtime is just laughable. I guess the mystery is....who cares.

Posted with my Z10 on Verizon 10.2.1.3253

[RLTurn77]

I think the real mystery here is how anyone could read through all this repetitive blather and never find out what the mystery is. If running Android is so important to you, then go buy an Android phone. The presumption that the BlackBerry 10 OS would be completely destroyed without the Android runtime is just laughable. I guess the mystery is....who cares.

Posted with my Z10 on Verizon 10.2.1.3253

lol... it was a lot, but I figured if anyone wanted to take the time to read they would. I pulled a few paragraphs from a different thread which is why it seems like babble I guess. And I, personally, do NOT want anything to do with Android. Hate it!

BlackBerry 10 OS would be used by those that need highly secured communication and that's about it without the runtime. The runtime isn't just the Amazon app store or Android apps, but many apps in BlackBerry World use the Android port as well. I'd think losing the Android runtime would have many consumers leaving.

Anyway, in short the mystery is... how can BlackBerry run an Android device alongside BB10 without removing the runtime as the OHA states that a manufacturer cannot sell a forked Android device alongside a full Android OS under the same brand.

Hope that's more clear.

Posted via CB10

[iamagod]

I'm leaning towards one of the potential scenarios.

1. Runtime dropped from BB10: these devices intended for military-grade security-conscious enterprise (end to end security). Manufactured by BB/partners and costing at least $1000+ per device. Sure, consumers can get them too for the exorbitant price.

2. Android heavily skinned by BB: devices intended for consumers and less security-conscious enterprise. Manufactured by partners and costing typical $400-$600 range.

Posted via CB10

[RLTurn77]

Solution: BlackBerry may run Amazons Android fork(Fire OS)-to avoid joining the OHA altogether.
Any and all members of the OHA are forbidden to build handsets for Amazon, however that doesn't mean Amazon isn't running on Android. It simply means Amazon does not have the Google play ecosystem. BlackBerry could team up with Amazon to run thier Android fork which allow access to developer apps who have blocked apps from running on BB'S android runtime. The only downfall is no Google play access, but they could still run android using Amazons android fork-and now have access to blocked apps and the runtime can remain on BB10.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

Interesting. So you don't believe that the BlackBerry Android rumored device will be OHA compliant. Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of building an Android device since BlackBerry can already run Amazon's app store and APKs. I'd think the move to Android would be for the Google Services that are missing from BB10, but you may be right. Just speculation at this point.

At least you seem to understand the dilemma I see in the BlackBerry brand running Android and where that leaves BlackBerry 10.

Posted via CB10

[iamagod]

http://forums.crackberry.com/showthread.php?t=1024608


Posted via CB10

[RLTurn77]

I'm leaning towards one of the potential scenarios.

1. Runtime dropped from BB10: these devices intended for military-grade security-conscious enterprise (end to end security). Manufactured by BB/partners and costing at least $1000+ per device. Sure, consumers can get them too for the exorbitant price.

2. Android heavily skinned by BB: devices intended for consumers and less security-conscious enterprise. Manufactured by partners and costing typical $400-$600 range.

Posted via CB10

This is what I'm thinking as well unfortunately. I really love BB10 and would hate to see this, but by taking on an Android device with Services and the ecosystem BlackBerry has to remove the runtime. We'll see and thank you for the input!

Posted via CB10

[Fidel Mercado]

Interesting. So you don't believe that the BlackBerry Android rumored device will be OHA compliant. Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of building an Android device since BlackBerry can already run Amazon's app store and APKs. I'd think the move to Android would be for the Google Services that are missing from BB10, but you may be right. Just speculation at this point.

At least you seem to understand the dilemma I see in the BlackBerry brand running Android and where that leaves BlackBerry 10.

Posted via CB10

Yeah its a dilemma. Joining the OHA is pretty much selling your rights to Google. I can't imagine Blackberry folding like that. I believe thier only solution is to run the most mature Android fork (Fire OS) to avoid OHA compliance. So that Blackberry has the autonomy to play in the Android waters without committing and still develop BB10 without losing the runtime. The benefit is that BB has a chance to merge with Amazon and develop Fire OS (along with BB10) another Android variant that can attempt to compete with Google's is a win for Amazon and BB.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[RLTurn77]

http://forums.crackberry.com/showthread.php?t=1024608


Posted via CB10

Wow... didn't see that. Looks like I'm way late to this debate. I haven't read through that thread yet, but seems awfully similar to my mystery question lol.

Reading through the front page article comments led me to believe that many don't understand the OHA and Google's control which is why I created this thread to educate some as well as brainstorm on what BlackBerry would come up with.

Posted via CB10

[CivilDissident]

Hmmm so riddle me this, yeah?

Let me have a go... Thinking outside the box and getting creative let me see...


Here we go:

BlackBerry via QNX works a sweet little side deal for Amazon's security and QNX powered drones... (Amazon's newest Big Push the damned drones... Undisputed, BlackBerry still synonymous with Security after all... Amazon would have a one up making the general public feel safe and snugly inside about their packages... ) BlackBerry in return gets more in depth access/integration to Amazon... A diabolical plan is hatched to single-handedly throw-down with Google... And Apple (that blasted Apple TV Bezos' little fire stick just can't compete.) But maybe a QNX powered Prime streaming stick takes off... Also, you know Amazon has been trying with all their might to make into to the smart phone realm, but outside of tablets just can't find their niche, enter BlackBerry, especially on a phablet that is Passport-esque) Now suddenly it's a whole new world like Aladdin! (Hence forth BOTH Google and Apple are given the metaphorical finger...)

Meanwhile, back in Waterloo, BlackBerry continues to wh0re out pieces of its' OS in the form of app as they did BBM, trying to not only bring mobile security and piece of mind as well as mobile harmony in a very social manner to those who seek it, but perhaps promote and encourage other developers to want to work more with BlackBerry RE: App Development as a direct result of these apps being scattered to app markets near and far...

In the end Amazon has drones and security, plus a QNX streaming device and since it just couldn't find it's proper niche in the smartphone world despite a few tries, finally gets it Amazon integrated smartphone fetish handled properly. With BlackBerry's help. BlackBerry gets a more endowed app store and can now at least keep up with Gates' economically thrifty WPs... People will fall victim to Amazon's marketing (another benefit for BlackBerry as their marketing has been flaccid as of late) and feel compelled to buy BlackBerrys. Plus now Amazon's QNX based beast streaming devices becomes accessible - obviously - on all devices, baked in to the OS... Also securely transmitted to our devices, our BBMs, perhaps socially live syncing television. (Like we really need more TV, but I digress.) BlackBerry makes some money, keeps making BlackBerrys and continues to fiddle with cars on the side... The legacy continues...

Riddle solved?

Posted via CB10

[RLTurn77]

Hmmm so riddle me this, yeah?

Let me have a go... Thinking outside the box and getting creative let me see...


Here we go:

BlackBerry via QNX works a sweet little side deal for Amazon's security and QNX powered drones... (Amazon's newest Big Push the damned drones... Undisputed, BlackBerry still synonymous with Security after all... Amazon would have a one up making the general public feel safe and snugly inside about their packages... ) BlackBerry in return gets more in depth access/integration to Amazon... A diabolical plan is hatched to single-handedly throw-down with Google... And Apple (that blasted Apple TV Besos' little fire stick just can't compete.) But maybe a QNX powered Prime streaming stick takes off... Also, you know Amazon has been trying with all their might to make into to the smart phone realm, but outside of tablets just can't find their niche, enter BlackBerry, especially on a phablet that is Passport-esque) Now suddenly it's a whole new world like Aladdin! (Hence forth BOTH Google and Apple are given the metaphorical finger...)

Meanwhile, back in Waterloo, BlackBerry continues to wh0re out pieces of its' OS in the form of app as they did BBM, trying to not only bring mobile security and piece of mind as well as mobile harmony in a very social manner to those who seek it, but perhaps promote and encourage other developers to want to work more with BlackBerry RE: App Development as a direct result of these apps being scattered to app markets near and far...

In the end Amazon has drones and security, plus a QNX streaming device and since it just couldn't find it's proper niche in the smartphone world despite a few tries, finally gets it Amazon integrated smartphone fetish handled properly. With BlackBerry's help. BlackBerry gets a more endowed app store and can now at least keep up with Gates' economically thrifty WPs... People will fall victim to Amazon's marketing (another benefit for BlackBerry as their marketing has been flaccid as of late) and feel compelled to buy BlackBerrys. Plus now Amazon's QNX based beast streaming devices becomes accessible - obviously - on all devices, baked in to the OS... Also securely transmitted to our devices, our BBMs, perhaps socially live syncing television. (Like we really need more TV, but I digress.) BlackBerry makes some money, keeps making BlackBerrys and continues to fiddle with cars on the side... The legacy continues...

Riddle solved?

Posted via CB10

Wow, liked that. Interesting read. Was still thinking BlackBerry was going to join the OHA to release a full Android device with full ecosystem if they were going to go the Android route, but would love for BlackBerry and Amazon to get a little closer in bed with their partnership hmm.

Would rather not see BlackBerry sellout to Google. The only downside I see is the same old ecosystem problem and that Amazon (with their great marketing) sold less than the Passport with their Firephone.

Posted via CB10

[thatplaybookguy]

According to google's terms, pre existing devices would be exempt from having to remove the bB10 os from them. BlackBerry could just make a separate device in a new branch of the firm to be just android. Blend can be made into an app for those devices. We keep our BB10 updates and BB gets to sell Android handsets. Its quite simple really.

[CivilDissident]

I see is the same old ecosystem problem and that Amazon (with their great marketing) sold less than the Passport with their Firephone.

Posted via CB10

I just put one out there...

But yes, Amazon SUCKED with phones, but they marketed the hell out of Kindle. Now imagine a BlackBerry device and BlackBerry keyboard VKB or PKB with some Amazon aspects to it, especially Kindle integration. Add BlackBerry's Documents to Go and word/document/composing abilities... Perfect selling point for a smartphone especially to a college student or business person... Perfect tool if one ponders it long enough...

And I was thinking more like an Amazon/BlackBerry partnership, not sell-out... Separate, but equal... Could be symbiotic... And lucrative...

Posted via CB10

[keithhackneysmullet]

I have come to the conclusion that BlackBerry users will come up with the most far fetched delusions rather than accept all the evidence pointing toward bb10's end of development

Posted via CB10

[Al Paquito]

BlackBerry has been pushing OS updates lately, and my guess is this is to appease or at least soften the announcement to current users when they share that later updates would not support runtime anymore. At the same time offer to update to Droid with the OS10. This is considering that a large chunk of OS10 users don't use android apps anyway. My long hunch given that Google definitely won't give in to having dual Android runtime or OS

BlackBerry PP

[Skatophilia]

I feel like it will be BB10 with the ability to run full android, such as a virtual drive. That would make the most sense to me. Continue doing what they are doing but just make it better

Posted via CB10

[AYC2112]

Having zero knowledge about OHA and kernels and runtimes really work, I'm guessing that John Chen will strike a deal in such a way that having BB10 phones with Android runtimes would not be considered an Android fork. And really it isn't because they aren't changing Android in offering that. I think Chen can negotiate a deal where the status quo is considered compliant with the OHA rules. Thereafter BlackBerry can produce parallel separate Android only phones.

Posted via CB10

[Supa_Fly1]

There may be something factual to these rumors, but people need to understand Google's terms for use of their OS. The brand BlackBerry, again, cannot run both Android and BB10 side by side unless they remove the runtime in BB10 as it is considered forked.

There may be something factual to these rumors, but people need to understand Google's terms for use of their OS. The brand BlackBerry, again, cannot run both Android and BB10 side by side unless they remove the runtime in BB10 as it is considered forked.

I think there in lies the loop-hole. Brand BlackBerry.
BlackBerry is BOTH a company and the BRAND. There is a VERY special shareholders meeting on the 23rd right? I don't think this is just solely focused on BlackBerry quarterly sales, costs, losses, and revenue and investments.

Ok ... Let's define the AOSP (Android/Android kernerl) vs OHA (Google's Android). This is a GREAT article that explains in the most simplistic terms what Google's Android OHA terms are.

Understanding the Difference Between AOSP and the Open Handset Alliance [Opinion]
Source: Droid-Life

While Android is open source and available for everyone to use, the Google Play store and Google apps (Gmail, Google Calendar, Chrome, etc.) are only available to Google�s partners in the Open Handset Alliance (OHA) that are certified by the Android Compatibility Program (ACP).This is important: there is a difference between Android and Google�s apps; the former is open source, the latter is closed source. Android and Google�s apps are mutually exclusive � Google will let anyone use Android, but not just anyone can use Google�s apps or have access to their ecosystem.

It is free for anyone to join the alliance, but in doing so the company must agree to not fork Android and instead strive to avoid fragmentation of the Android platform. What this means is that a manufacturer like Acer cannot release a device that runs a non-compatible version of Android. If Acer wants to release a device with a non-compatible version of Android they can, but they�ll have to leave the OHA and lose access to Google�s ecosystem.

So my intial two thoughts on BB releasing an Android device that fully qualifies with the OHA license/agreement/testing/certification is out the window. Those thoughts are:

BlackBerry the company releasing a new product brand called "Last Chance". Last Chance the brand is not what Google is authorizing the OHA license/certification to have Google's apps ... it's the company.

BlackBerry changes the company name back to RIM or something new. 2 brands are released Blackberry (using BB10 with or without Android Runtime). still the company is getting the certification/license approval to use Android+Google's apps and services and API's.

Thus far makes crystal clear sense to me ...

Most of the misunderstanding about whether or not Android is actually open source seems to stem from the idea that Google wants to control Android more than they�re letting on. While I wish that were the case, the evidence indicates that Google is happy to keep Android open for anyone to use. Even though one could make a very compelling case that OEM skins have detrimental impact on Android compatibility, Google has done nothing to date to stop OEMs from customizing how Android looks and behaves while still having access to Google�s ecosystem of apps and content. Open has nothing to do with when updates are released or the terms to use Google�s closed source services and apps

Now ... this poses my and a few others' hypothesis.
1. BlackBerry releases a forced and push updates that are NOT held back by providers nor checked by providers, but an agreement already signed on, approved in writing by Google, BlackBerry and ALL global providers that a BB10 update will REMOVE the Android runtime - maybe even an approved and quantifiable number that Google would accept proven distributed that devices of BB10 no longer have the Android runtime for BlackBerry to proceed with an Android+Google Apps/API's/Services to be released.

2. BlackBerry's runtime to run Android apps is NOT a fork in any way shape or form because
a) it does not modify Android would would polute Googles data, api's or services due to the nature of how the runtime works. Meaning it would not dilute or fragment Google's OHA Android. BlackBerry gets approval and done a BB device in the future gets full Android+Google.

3. BlackBerry gets Android+Google (Apps/Services/API's) by entering a licensing/patent sharing agreement with Google available under short term for ALL manufacturers. Since a) the BB10 runtime is not a fork, and b) BlackBerry's Experience Suite pre-loaded is a THEME just like TouchWiz etc for differentiation and in no way affects the Google apps/services brand nor fragments Android in this view.

The curious question is ... can ANY manufacturer CHANGE the look and feel of the Google Apps icons (Gmail, Chrome, Hangouts, Google +, et cetera) without changing HOW the work or render content and data? Again simply a SKIN vs changing the operation? I surmise this is POSSIBLE yet something heavily FROWNED upon ... based on the last quoted paragraph above.

#2 and #3 are my complete predictions.

PS: I don't quality for this contest since I live in Canada should I win I couldn't have the prize shipped to me so at least consider moving my win to someone been stuck on older BBOS with no money to move onto BB10

[Sulaco757]

1. It's Tizen!

2. http://berryflow.com/2015/06/the-fut...on-blackberry/

3. As posted above, it could be similar to Amazon's version of Android, which bypasses the need for Google's permission. Either Amazon's software or BlackBerry skinned Android, devoid of the Google Play Services. People aren't complaining about Google apps not working. They are complaining of bad Android app performance. Whether Amazon app store or sideloaded, the apps should just work. The current android runtime is not competitive.

Personally I think there's some gold from James in #2.

 Q10 on 10.3.1.2582 

[3Dee]

1. It's Tizen!

2. http://berryflow.com/2015/06/the-fut...on-blackberry/

3. As posted above, it could be similar to Amazon's version of Android, which bypasses the need for Google's permission. Either Amazon's software or BlackBerry skinned Android, devoid of the Google Play Services. People aren't complaining about Google apps not working. They are complaining of bad Android app performance. Whether Amazon app store or sideloaded, the apps should just work. The current android runtime is not competitive.

Personally I think there's some gold from James in #2.

 Q10 on 10.3.1.2582 

I was going to point to BerryFlow too, and love the debate they're having on the matter. Building upon the theory given by James above, I love the suggestion in the comments to this article http://berryflow.com/2015/06/berryfl...52-downstream/ that what BlackBerry might be trying to do is build a Type 0 Hypervisor, which would allow them to run a version of Android that would be secured to the core. If it's not true, it is at least exciting to consider!

Posted via CB10

[RLTurn77]

Wow... lots of different opinions here. Tuesday should prove to be a pivotal moment in BlackBerry history. Everything from end of BB10, BB10 without the runtime, Amazon, Samsung got a mention, branding as BlackBerry, along with everything else written. Didn't expect this many replies to be honest or I'd address each one by one.

Keep in mind that BlackBerry released a statement that they are committed to BlackBerry 10 when the Android rumors surfaced/leaked. I have no reason from November 2013 until now to doubt this statement as I see John Chen as a man of integrity and believe he's very straightforward. Of course this can change, but nice to know that BB10 is still on... for now.

I can't see BB10 without the runtime unless used for highly secure use only and I'm not sure if I agree that going Android without the Google services and full ecosystem will improve sales much. Just my opinion.

Supa_Fly1, I was hoping that you would contribute as I've read one of your posts on this issue in the "I support BlackBerry..." thread. You seem to have a good handle on the ins and outs of running Android and thought you'd have some insightful thoughts on this. Thanks for the input.

Posted via CB10

[Tre Lawrence]

Selfishly, I want BBRY to make BB10 devices. I like platform diversity.

I concede that my wants may not be what's best for the company, though.

In any case, I'm not entirely sure that a BB Android device -- even with GPS -- will be the savior, but I do reluctantly see merit in the argument for it.

As for Google making an exception for BBRY? Don't see it. Why would it?

BBRY with Fire OS? Interesting, but does it make sense for BBRY to add a struggling OS? My perspective is that GPS is the crown jewel of Android; without it, Android is not the golden boy it is today.

Someone (Playbookster?) mentioned that prior devices are exempt. I believe this is true. So, BBRY could conceivably make OHA-compliant devices going forward if my understanding is correct, as long as another BB10 + runtime device isn't released afterwards.

Or, as postulated, kill the runtime.

So, while I'm not a fan of BBRY adopting Android, I'm not seeing any other logical play at this juncture if BBRY wants to stay in the consumer hardware business.

Then again, I've never run a billion dollar business, and I did predict the failure of the iPhone, so what do I know?

[JuiciPatties]

Agreed. I think James over at Berryflow has thought this through very well and would like to think that his line of thinking is where they are heading.

However, just for S&G, I think what will happen is Blackberry will announce a deal that will allow Blackberry to join the OHA in exchange for giving the rights to Google to produce the "Typo" for both Apple and Android devices.

[cjcampbell]

My two cents.... the Android phone will be a SecuPhone partnership with Samsung and IBM just like the tablet. BlackBerry will continue BB10 as they stated.

Posted via CB10