[mutambo]

RIM has a very simple problem, they are not yet on the bandwagon of touch. they can keep their current and new form factors and be succesful by simply implementing TOUCH functionality across all those form factors.

so, a bold 9700 with a touchscreen (NON-CLICKING) and also leaving the trackpad for those that prefer it.

Curve 9300 or whatever, with trackpad.

something similar to the CURVE MAGNUM that we have seen previously!

http://www.informationweek.com/blog/...OSKH4ATMY32JVN

I think if RIM makes the shift as such, in combination with OS6 - they will be EXTREMELY successful!

BOLD 9800 is already a great start in the right direction.

RIM also needs to speed up the pace with these advancements however.

And lastly, they do need 1 phone that is on the extremely high-end to compete with the EVO-iphone-etc, something with a

5mp camera, 1ghz processor at min, and perhaps 1gig of ram?

[Pi Guy 3.14]

I think if RIM makes the shift as such, in combination with OS6 - they will be EXTREMELY successful!

They already are EXTREMELY successful... There is no SOLUTION because there is no PROBLEM.

I love how people think RIM owes them something that is comparable to all the other newer phones that they're putting out. If it doesn't live up to your expectations, dont buy it. You're wasting your time if you're waiting for something groundbreaking to happen. You are not part of RIM's target market. And neither is anyone that thinks RIM needs to start making phones comparable to the iphone or android phones...

[Pi Guy 3.14]

And lol at making all the phones touchscreen. That would be the end of rim. They would never do that. That would be the biggest waste of resources and time.

[Radius]

Touch screen sucks. Period. I do not like them and will not buy them. It's a gimmick technology as far as I'm concerned.

[elvin1983]

They already are EXTREMELY successful... There is no SOLUTION because there is no PROBLEM.

I love how people think RIM owes them something that is comparable to all the other newer phones that they're putting out. If it doesn't live up to your expectations, dont buy it. You're wasting your time if you're waiting for something groundbreaking to happen. You are not part of RIM's target market. And neither is anyone that thinks RIM needs to start making phones comparable to the iphone or android phones...

I agree with your post, but I hope you're not implying that RIM shouldn't make phones to compete with the iPhone or Android phones, because that would be a quick way to loose alot of business. BlackBerry's are going to have to evolve to stay current and competative in the consumer market, much the way that they have been doing (some would argue otherwise ). They're always going to have to work to make and offer new services to compete with Android and the iPhone, much like Android and the iPhone have to do the same to stay competative. It's a cutthroat consumer market out there, you've got to be on your toes to stay competative!

[MrObvious]

Here we go....

[Pi Guy 3.14]

Yes, I am implying that. If rim starts competing with android and iphones, they are going to lose, and lose bad. Period.

People that drop rim for any of those devices are not RIMs target audience in the first place, so it does not affect them...

[elvin1983]

Yes, I am implying that. If rim starts competing with android and iphones, they are going to lose, and lose bad. Period.

People that drop rim for any of those devices are not RIMs target audience in the first place, so it does not affect them...

So you're saying that RIM should just leave well enought alone and not try to compete in the consumer marketplace, stick to the enterprise business market where they began, and focus solely on that market?

[Newfangled Gizmo]

To be fair, OP is proposing that future RIM devices have both touch screen and keypad.

I'm not a fan of touch screens, but if that's the way to get a bigger screen and a better web browser while retaining BB reliability, I'd be interested. However, the keypad should not be a single millimeter narrower than it is on the 9700.

[Pi Guy 3.14]

So you're saying that RIM should just leave well enought alone and not try to compete in the consumer marketplace, stick to the enterprise business market where they began, and focus solely on that market?

Not necessarily, I still believe they should make devices that are designed for the general consumer (hence the storm series, which even then could still be considered a business device) for the extra revenue, but they can't lose focus on what their core business is. Which getting caught up in the competition of touchscreen app-filled phones, they could easily get distracted. Its called biting off more than you can chew. Rim needs to stick with what works, like they have been doing for the last 10 years.

[Pi Guy 3.14]

To be fair, OP is proposing that future RIM devices have both touch screen and keypad.

True, yes he is. But what he's failing to understand is the MASSIVE amount of engineering, resources, time, money etc would cost to build both touch screen/non touch screen for the same model.

[elvin1983]

Not necessarily, I still believe they should make devices that are designed for the general consumer (hence the storm series, which even then could still be considered a business device) for the extra revenue, but they can't lose focus on what their core business is. Which getting caught up in the competition of touchscreen app-filled phones, they could easily get distracted. Its called biting off more than you can chew. Rim needs to stick with what works, like they have been doing for the last 10 years.

Ok, see I agree with you there. I don't think that they should necessarily follow the trend to switch to a bunch of touchscreen, cookie cutter phones and completely drop the development they've done to produce the handsets that they have today.

I feel that the direction that they're going with BlackBerry 6, as well as introducing the 9800 slider phone are steps in the right direction, where they're keeping their focus on the core usability (what makes BB a BB) while incomporating some newer touches and some additional functionality to add to the appeal to the consumer. Seems like a win/win to me.

Evolving on the platform they've had forever I feel is the best way to do things. I hate it when I read people say that BlackBerry needs to make an entirely new OS from scratch, I think that's a horrible idea, and I think that would be causing corporate suicide to the company. I have a BB because I love the way it works, and it is the best device for me. If BB switched gears and created a phone that mirrored Android, I would be disgusted. I'm glad they're doing what they are currently, and look forward to seeing what they develop in the future.

[Pi Guy 3.14]

Excellent post

[NoahFecks]

If BB switched gears and created a phone that mirrored Android, I would be disgusted.

Same here. There is absolutely no reason to delve into the world of the "absolutely unnecessary" devices that android and iphone represent. A phone should be a communications device. There is absolutely nothing that android or iphones do better than BB that make them a better communications device. All they do is add unnecessary bloat, which is why the majority of BB owners will stay BB owners. People that want flashy toys will go with the other platforms, but there's no need for RIM to create a similar flashy toy because that's not their competition. RIM really has no competition if you think about it. They have their target market sewn up. Expanding into the minority "toy phone" market would make no business sense.

[MrObvious]

I agree. There are a few things BB needs to do to make their phones better and more 2010ish but they are heading in the right direction. The upgrades to the web browser and media player should be huge. If they can nail down apps and actually make it worthwhile to develop on BB that'll help a lot (yes I know there are junk apps but there are good apps on iPhone/Droid that we just don't have on BB). I actually wouldn't mind the slider if it becomes available on Verizon if it's done right. But if it's not, I may get something else when I can upgrade.

[CrackBerry Storm meh]

TO OP: No, for a few reasons.
1) Battery Life
2) They should not really get further into the touchscreen market. Their current touchscreen OS does not even on the same playing field as the iPhone and Droid
3) High costs, from production, etc.
4) We know RIM - They only make minor hardware upgrades.

I love how people think RIM owes them something that is comparable to all the other newer phones that they're putting out. If it doesn't live up to your expectations, dont buy it. You're wasting your time if you're waiting for something groundbreaking to happen. You are not part of RIM's target market. And neither is anyone that thinks RIM needs to start making phones comparable to the iphone or android phones...

First of all, RIM has a nasty habit of advertising and holds the tendency to not deliver. Maybe if RIM stopped advertising 'This phone will soon be able to use OpenGL and OS6' rather than advertising about the current phone itself, people would not be upset about it. RIM has been giving us POS hardware, with promises that we would be able to do certain features, yet later on, they inform us that our device does not have the hardware specifications required.

[T�nis]

Touchscreens are gimmicks, as someone else has already pointed out. Only the fickle are "wowed" by something less practical ... like a device which one has to keep rotating between "landscape" and "portrait" "modes."

[Masahiro]

So you're saying that RIM should just leave well enought alone and not try to compete in the consumer marketplace, stick to the enterprise business market where they began, and focus solely on that market?

BlackBerry is just as big a "consumer phone" as iphone or android. I don't understand the idea that a phone needs to have a large touchscreen and a lot of fancy graphics to be considered part of the "consumer market". Consumers may also want physical keypads so they could text their friends easier. They may not care about what kind of processor the phone has. They may want BBM. The list goes on.

Either way, I don't think it would be cost effective for RIM to dump a bunch of money into developing a phone that would be thrown into the "consumer friendly" touchscreen market. They'd be competing against iphone, android, webOS and soon to be Windows7 (revamped). At best, they'd only have part of the segment as their market share.

RIM would rather be competing for international smartphone market share, against the current titan that is Nokia.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[mutambo]

Just to clarify, i was not suggesting having 2 lines of each phone, one touchscreen and one not. i was simply suggesting implementing a touchscreen onto every phone while RETAINING its original form factor (qwert keyboard/touchpad), something a la the bold 9800 route which i think is hitting the nail on the head!

this hybrid of device will satisfy both the consumer and the business user, and allow you the option to use EITHER (touchscreen or touchpad or qwerty or touchscrreen or both or whatever)

imo, this really is the only alternative option for RIM is to make every screen have the touchscreen capability because TOUCH is where the future is going with technology. Everything is TOUCH! do you remember rotary phones? well, those are gone, imagine if companies never changed away from rotary design because they said 'everyone is alraedy used to rotary design so lets keep it'

another upside to the hybrid of touch and physical touchpad etc is that the software design in itself will have touch built in, SO, you theoritically should really only need one version of software (touch screen capable) which in the end means less needed development by developoers > easier to develop = more applications.

the 2 big take aways from my thoughts are

1) touchscreen and touchpad hybrid going forward will allow BB to hit consumer and business segment at same time offering BOTH capabilities to either use to use at their discretion

2) software solution - no longer need a touchscreen/non touchscreen software development route. 1 software OS can be migrated to all devices, and all apps can be applied and made compatible with all devices (naturally, all devices that run the OS that is built upon this logic, IE: bb6) hopefully someone at RIM has this same roadmap and solution base to their problems as i do.

i understand RIMs core competency is qwerty/physical input, so they should NOT move away from the, but simply implement the newest high demand technology (touchscreen) into their phones to better compete

should they make the flip? sure, im sure tehre is a market for it, but MAKE IT TOUCHSCREEN to some extent (which seems like they may be doing this with the front screen)

the magnum/dokota line is something i would like to see going forward, and i hope the BOLD9800 is an indication that their roadmap does indeed follow this strategy.

[mciriello]

Firstly, anyone who thinks a touchscreen is a gimmick is naive...touchscreens are far more versitile than a fixed keyboard since the keys can "change" to fit the task at hand. They are also just as easy to type on when properly designed (iPhone).

Secondly, RIM needs to stay the heck away from touchscreens until they can implement one that actually works.

Let's face it, someday the fixed QWERTY will be gone. It wastes space that can be used as a screen and will be sacrificed for that reason as devices get smaller but require better displays.

[Pi Guy 3.14]

Let's face it, someday the fixed QWERTY will be gone.

I highly, highly doubt it will ever be gone.

[grahamf]

I highly, highly doubt it will ever be gone.

++
that would be like some guy in Venice around 500bc saying that wagon wheels will be obsolete because everyone can just use a boat to get around.

[elvin1983]

Firstly, anyone who thinks a touchscreen is a gimmick is naive...touchscreens are far more versitile than a fixed keyboard since the keys can "change" to fit the task at hand. They are also just as easy to type on when properly designed (iPhone).

Let's face it, someday the fixed QWERTY will be gone. It wastes space that can be used as a screen and will be sacrificed for that reason as devices get smaller but require better displays.

Yeah, I have to disagree with you, I don't think the fixed QWERTY will ever go away. And while you may find it just as easy to type on a "properly designed" touch keyboard, that may not be the case for someone else. As long as there is still a market for both, there will always be both, and I don't see everyone switching over to touchscreen devices any time soon. And with the slider style devices, your arguement that a fixed QWERTY keyboard wastes space becomes moot...

[Pete6]

Touchscreen --- no thanks. I'd rather have a real keyboard.

Touchscreens have their place but typing is not one of them.

It is true that a touchscreen keyboard is the baseline, really cheap option - just replace all that expensive ergonomic engineering and all that clever and equally expensive moving parts that make a keyboard so easy to use and replace it with a piece of software and you will make lots of profit. Just look at Apple's bottom line last quarter.

Do it right and put in a keyboard like the BlackBerry has and you have a real winner, imo.

A touchscreen makes it really hard, if not impossible to use a phone one-handed. My 9700 is quite usable for short messages with one hand.

[mciriello]

Yeah, I have to disagree with you, I don't think the fixed QWERTY will ever go away. And while you may find it just as easy to type on a "properly designed" touch keyboard, that may not be the case for someone else. As long as there is still a market for both, there will always be both, and I don't see everyone switching over to touchscreen devices any time soon. And with the slider style devices, your arguement that a fixed QWERTY keyboard wastes space becomes moot...

while the keyboard on a slider doesn't take screen space away, it is still wasteful given that it makes the phone thicker than it needs to be. I am not arguing that fixed qwerty keyboards will be gone soon but eventually they will be. Kind of like CDs...

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com