03-08-10 02:23 AM
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  1. Cleveland's Avatar
    What if I close my Paypal and bank account before he reverse charges it? I know it's not the right thing to do, but what choice do I have..

    and say when I receive the phone back it's already broken/replaced/whatever, can I make UPS responsible for that instead? it was insured when I sent it in the first place.

    from what you guys are saying, it looks like I'm fighting a losing battle. I just want to make sure I don't lose my money..

    I'd call paypal and explain the situation and IF the phone is returned it needs to be verified it's the same device you sold, and as a backup plan, I'd change bank accounts and/or credit card info
    03-03-10 03:13 PM
  2. Xpimp's Avatar
    Just reading through this thread seems like one big headache. I'm sorry this is happening to you, and hope you get it sorted out.
    03-03-10 03:20 PM
  3. miller7796's Avatar
    Somebody suggested Craigslist earlier. While I have gone that route a few times just to sell something I know would find a buyer and I could skirt eBay and PayPal's fees, over 50% of those who contact you drop off the planet or never show up and the remaining 50% want to give you half the asking price when you meet them. Maybe a little exaggerated, but in my experience that is what it seems like.
    03-03-10 03:29 PM
  4. scorpiodsu's Avatar
    Somebody suggested Craigslist earlier. While I have gone that route a few times just to sell something I know would find a buyer and I could skirt eBay and PayPal's fees, over 50% of those who contact you drop off the planet or never show up and the remaining 50% want to give you half the asking price when you meet them. Maybe a little exaggerated, but in my experience that is what it seems like.
    Yeah some buyers try to low ball you in person. That's why I almost negotiate price before we meet. I had to walk away from a sale because a guy tried to low ball me. I went out of my way to meet him and then he tries some BS like I was hard up for the money and would except anything. After that, I let the buyer know what the price is and it won't change when we meet. Take it or leave. I don't need the money and I'll find a buyer sooner or later.
    03-03-10 04:02 PM
  5. CharredPC's Avatar
    I left you a PM, there's a bit of advice in there. FYI for everyone, PayPal is pretty good about this and you can stipulate no refund without a return.

    Also you can use the pics from eBay to verify to PayPal that what you got returned was or was not what you shipped.
    I have to respectfully disagree. Maybe you've had a good PayPal experience, and if so, hooray! You're one of the lucky few. The biggest problem with "no refund without a return" is that PayPal only requires a valid return tracking number. They do NOT in any way verify WHAT gets returned. A buyer could actually send back (not kidding, it's happened) a brick via UPS, and PayPal automatically transfers the funds back to the buyer. If the seller has already emptied his account, it goes negative, then tries to correct itself using any bank accounts or credit cards on file.

    I frequented the eBay Power Seller discussion boards, and this sort of thing is unfortunately common. A lot of people / businesses I knew left eBay completely just due to the forced PayPal thing (all sellers MUST use PayPal now, so eBay can get all profits). Several went to Amazon, some tried opening their own web storefronts. Again, I don't want to scare the OP, but in my cases I had logic on my side, pictures, even sometimes the buyer's own words. The dispute process leaves you little room for proving anything, and no chance to talk to a human. It's all done online, and no matter how eloquent you are, or what facts you have, the customer is always right. eBay/PayPal (same company) is more concerned about how the masses of buyers perceive the safety of online purchases than they care about any seller. On some level, I understand their point... but there was no way I could keep a successful business when they protected the scamming system so well.

    Somebody suggested Craigslist earlier. While I have gone that route a few times just to sell something I know would find a buyer and I could skirt eBay and PayPal's fees, over 50% of those who contact you drop off the planet or never show up and the remaining 50% want to give you half the asking price when you meet them. Maybe a little exaggerated, but in my experience that is what it seems like.
    This is true. After leaving eBay, I kept things going for a while using local online classifieds. When selling on Craigslist, there's some tips to follow if you don't want a ton of frustration-

    CharredPC's rules of Craigslist Selling:

    1. Price reasonably, and make it clear in your ad that you're FIRM (unless you just want it gone, and don't mind what you get for it). Everyone automatically thinks prices are negotiable unless you state otherwise, because Craigslist is just an online garage sale. Don't be afraid to explain your price (so it should be justifiable); if you're selling it for half of new cost, that's reason enough to be firm.

    2. If you're going to set up meetings at some gas station or coffee shop, prepare for the buyer not to show half the time. I always set it up at my place when I'll already be home, so if they don't show up... who cares. I understand some people don't want to sell out of their home, in which case you can always have them text or call when they are at a local intersection, and meet them there. Keep in mind that some people think you traffic in stolen goods if you go through great lengths to remain anonymous

    3. Do your homework. Selling something expensive for five dollars less than new just doesn't work. I've seen things go for higher than on eBay (rural, non-tech savvy area) and stuff go for a lot less (college towns). Check other people's local prices before you list, just like you would on eBay. It's always better to list & sell your item within 48 hours because it's $10 cheaper than to wait around for a month hoping for that extra little bit. Your time is worth something.

    4. Patience. eBay has a gazillion bidders, so stuff goes fairly quick, especially if it's good. Your local Craigslist is lucky to have a thousand visitors per day, and a small percentage of those are potential buyers. So don't panic if your item gets no interest immediately. Sometimes the weekend will get things moving, or the beginning of the month. You don't have to panic and start dropping prices after five days. The wait might be worth skipping the seller's fees, PayPal fees, shipping costs and hassle.

    5. Never, ever, ever take checks. Just... no. 95% of the time, the check is perfectly good and there will be no problems. It's that other 5% of the time that will make you kick yourself forever. Cash will never bounce. Be sure to make this clear to your buyer before meeting, to avoid the awkward "but all I have is my checkbook, and the bank isn't open this late..."

    6. If you don't want lots of random phone calls, do things only by email. Just be aware that there could be a broke teenager on the other end, not an actual potential buyer. Or do like I do, and say "leave a voice mail at XXX-XXX." Then you can screen calls and return the serious ones. It saves you arguing with the idiots who act like they're doing you a favor offering half of your asking price.

    7. Lastly, be honest. If it's a 1986 500 lb. projection screen tv, don't act like it's worth thousands and has the best hi-def picture evar The reason most sales don't complete (whether it's for a car, computer, or phone) is because it was misrepresented in the ad. You're wasting your time and buyers' by not disclosing damage or problems up front. If they don't notice a known issue right when they come to buy it, you're just asking for trouble later (not to mention some bad karma). And if you don't get any interest when being honest- obviously you're asking too much!


    I realize this was slightly OT, sorry Maybe it will help the OP though.
    03-03-10 04:23 PM
  6. dkwhite's Avatar
    I wouldn't give this guy a refund if you specified NO REFUNDS in your auction. Also, ask for the information about the VZW employee he spoke with. Get him to give you names and nail him down to where he was and when. He may balk at the idea of committing to a store.

    Best place I've found to buy/sell phones is right here on ole' CB. It's free and safe and for the most part, you can quickly get a feel of the buyer/seller from their posts. I had a great experience here.
    It's not up to him. I had this happen once when I sold a video camera, the guy got it, broke it, then disputed the charges and I took the hit. Paypal and eBay were of absolutely no assistance to me.

    UPS will do nothing because the guy isn't claiming it was damaged in shipment. you need cooperation from the buyer to get the ins $ from UPS. Been there and done that.
    03-03-10 05:49 PM
  7. miller7796's Avatar

    CharredPC's rules of Craigslist Selling:

    1. Price reasonably, and make it clear in your ad that you're FIRM (unless you just want it gone, and don't mind what you get for it). Everyone automatically thinks prices are negotiable unless you state otherwise, because Craigslist is just an online garage sale. Don't be afraid to explain your price (so it should be justifiable); if you're selling it for half of new cost, that's reason enough to be firm.

    2. If you're going to set up meetings at some gas station or coffee shop, prepare for the buyer not to show half the time. I always set it up at my place when I'll already be home, so if they don't show up... who cares. I understand some people don't want to sell out of their home, in which case you can always have them text or call when they are at a local intersection, and meet them there. Keep in mind that some people think you traffic in stolen goods if you go through great lengths to remain anonymous

    3. Do your homework. Selling something expensive for five dollars less than new just doesn't work. I've seen things go for higher than on eBay (rural, non-tech savvy area) and stuff go for a lot less (college towns). Check other people's local prices before you list, just like you would on eBay. It's always better to list & sell your item within 48 hours because it's $10 cheaper than to wait around for a month hoping for that extra little bit. Your time is worth something.

    4. Patience. eBay has a gazillion bidders, so stuff goes fairly quick, especially if it's good. Your local Craigslist is lucky to have a thousand visitors per day, and a small percentage of those are potential buyers. So don't panic if your item gets no interest immediately. Sometimes the weekend will get things moving, or the beginning of the month. You don't have to panic and start dropping prices after five days. The wait might be worth skipping the seller's fees, PayPal fees, shipping costs and hassle.

    5. Never, ever, ever take checks. Just... no. 95% of the time, the check is perfectly good and there will be no problems. It's that other 5% of the time that will make you kick yourself forever. Cash will never bounce. Be sure to make this clear to your buyer before meeting, to avoid the awkward "but all I have is my checkbook, and the bank isn't open this late..."

    6. If you don't want lots of random phone calls, do things only by email. Just be aware that there could be a broke teenager on the other end, not an actual potential buyer. Or do like I do, and say "leave a voice mail at XXX-XXX." Then you can screen calls and return the serious ones. It saves you arguing with the idiots who act like they're doing you a favor offering half of your asking price.

    7. Lastly, be honest. If it's a 1986 500 lb. projection screen tv, don't act like it's worth thousands and has the best hi-def picture evar The reason most sales don't complete (whether it's for a car, computer, or phone) is because it was misrepresented in the ad. You're wasting your time and buyers' by not disclosing damage or problems up front. If they don't notice a known issue right when they come to buy it, you're just asking for trouble later (not to mention some bad karma). And if you don't get any interest when being honest- obviously you're asking too much!


    I realize this was slightly OT, sorry Maybe it will help the OP though.
    Nice rules, and those are basically what I have figured out myself as well. Except, even when I have indicated I am firm on the price I still get a number of "would you take $xxx for it??" emails. Another thing I have started to do is to put something in my post that the interested party must put in the email to me in order that I A: know they are not spam and B: know they actually read the entire posting.

    Sorry, we're getting off topic on how to sell on Craigslist. I'll be quiet now
    03-03-10 05:50 PM
  8. AtMostFear's Avatar
    I've reported every single detail of inconsistencies of the buyer's complaint to eBay, and still eBay just emailed me telling that they've asked the buyer to return the phone to me and that I should refund him once I get it back.

    I tried sending a PIN message to the phone and it was Delivered. seriously WTF? the phone's PIN is 30FE8020.

    damn it!
    03-08-10 02:23 AM
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