12-15-15 04:28 PM
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  1. chrysaurora's Avatar
    I'm seriously thinking you don't understand what QNX is. And what android auto and car play is.

    It's two different things to say the least.

    Posted via CB10
    Didn't read the whole thread. But just putting it out there -

    In context of these cars, QNX is the OS.
    Android Auto/Car Play are 'apps' that run on QNX.

    Like you can have Microsoft Office (app) run on MacOS. ITunes (app) run on Windowss (os)


    Posted via CB10
    gfondeur likes this.
    11-29-15 01:13 PM
  2. early2bed's Avatar
    The smartphone is the CPU. Android or iOS is the OS. CarPlay and Android Auto are the video cards. QNX is the display, speakers, and keyboard.

    The apps and other content for Android Auto and Car Play are going to come from Google and Apple: apps, navigation, messaging, music, podcasts, searches, social media, payments, automation (garage door, gates, home AC/heating and locks), etc. QNX is a utility connects the smartphone to the car but comparatively has little else to offer because BlackBerry doesn't have anything close to the content ecosystem that those two giants have.

    The second the user switches to the Android Auto or Car Play mode, it's like switching the input on your TV to your set-top box. The TV manufacturers have added Netflix and YouTube to their televisions but most people bypass it in favor of the richer experience that Dish, Roku, Xbox, Apple TV offer. QNX is like your smart TV. A little late and not quite smart enough.
    11-29-15 02:16 PM
  3. Cozz4ever's Avatar
    The smartphone is the CPU. Android or iOS is the OS. CarPlay and Android Auto are the video cards. QNX is the display, speakers, and keyboard.

    The apps and other content for Android Auto and Car Play are going to come from Google and Apple: apps, navigation, messaging, music, podcasts, searches, social media, payments, automation (garage door, gates, home AC/heating and locks), etc. QNX is a utility connects the smartphone to the car but comparatively has little else to offer because BlackBerry doesn't have anything close to the content ecosystem that those two giants have.

    The second the user switches to the Android Auto or Car Play mode, it's like switching the input on your TV to your set-top box. The TV manufacturers have added Netflix and YouTube to their televisions but most people bypass it in favor of the richer experience that Dish, Roku, Xbox, Apple TV offer. QNX is like your smart TV. A little late and not quite smart enough.
    Wrong, try again

    Posted via CB10
    gfondeur likes this.
    11-29-15 06:10 PM
  4. OTCHRussell's Avatar
    So, explain my new Ford Sync 3. What part is QNX?

    9000 > Q10 > Z10 >Z30>Z30>
    11-30-15 11:11 PM
  5. chrysaurora's Avatar
    The smartphone is the CPU. Android or iOS is the OS. CarPlay and Android Auto are the video cards. QNX is the display, speakers, and keyboard.

    The apps and other content for Android Auto and Car Play are going to come from Google and Apple: apps, navigation, messaging, music, podcasts, searches, social media, payments, automation (garage door, gates, home AC/heating and locks), etc. QNX is a utility connects the smartphone to the car but comparatively has little else to offer because BlackBerry doesn't have anything close to the content ecosystem that those two giants have.

    The second the user switches to the Android Auto or Car Play mode, it's like switching the input on your TV to your set-top box. The TV manufacturers have added Netflix and YouTube to their televisions but most people bypass it in favor of the richer experience that Dish, Roku, Xbox, Apple TV offer. QNX is like your smart TV. A little late and not quite smart enough.
    lol, you don't know what you are talking about.
    QNX is the OS.
    You can install whatever app you want on it (Android Auto, Car Play etc are just apps installed on QNX).
    gfondeur likes this.
    12-01-15 12:45 AM
  6. Mark Edward Carr's Avatar
    Why dont blackberry just block apple and others for writing apps for qnx... unless they offer better app support for BB10?!?

    Posted via CB10
    12-01-15 04:58 AM
  7. early2bed's Avatar
    QNX can stop supporting Android Auto and Apple Car Play but the car companies and ultimately the car customers want their smartphone apps to show up on their in-dash displays.

    QNX and car companies would love to control (sell) more of the content in these systems, however, customers would be more likely to just skip the expensive dash upgrades and just use their smart phones. This way, they still have a chance of selling the expensive dash systems as touch displays for smartphones.

    QNX is not really the OS if the navigation app, for example, is Apple Maps, Waze or Google Maps running on the smartphone processor using the smartphone data plan and GPS. These apps are licensed and distributed by Apple and Google and are running on the smartphones like they always do with the option of using QNX for the touchscreen.
    Last edited by early2bed; 12-01-15 at 12:01 PM.
    12-01-15 05:23 AM
  8. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Why dont blackberry just block apple and others for writing apps for qnx... unless they offer better app support for BB10?!?
    Car manufacturers license QNX, but then the car manufacturers each customize it extensively. If BB tried to block Android Auto and Car Play, the car manufacturers would simply dump QNX and use one of several alternatives - BB is in no position to dictate those kinds of things to the car manufacturers.

    And BB10 isn't even remotely connected to any of that. QNX apps have nothing to do with BB10 apps.
    gfondeur and southlander like this.
    12-01-15 10:55 AM
  9. Cozz4ever's Avatar
    Why dont blackberry just block apple and others for writing apps for qnx... unless they offer better app support for BB10?!?

    Posted via CB10
    Blackberry can't block any interface connected to it. It's not even a choice, it's just not possible. QNX can run the entire car. From hvac, steering wheel controls, media interface, body control modules (BCMs), back up cameras, etc. Only the auto manufacturers can choose to support third party hardware. If a manufacturer wants qnx to turn on neon pink under car lights via a speed signal or if they want to install la cucaracha air horns, blackberry has no say in that.

    Posted via CB10
    12-02-15 12:18 PM
  10. chrysaurora's Avatar
    Why dont blackberry just block apple and others for writing apps for qnx... unless they offer better app support for BB10?!?

    Posted via CB10
    BlackBerry 10's problem was people did not write apps for it.

    QNX (car os)- people write apps for it. And you are saying, BlackBerry should disallow people from writing apps for QNX. Then QNX would become like BlackBerry 10 OS. Excellent but with no app support. And car manufacturers will look for another OS that app-industry will want to write apps for.

    Posted via CB10
    12-02-15 05:18 PM
  11. Ment's Avatar

    QNX is not really the OS if the navigation app, for example, is Apple Maps, Waze or Google Maps running on the smartphone processor using the smartphone data plan and GPS. These apps are licensed and distributed by Apple and Google and are running on the smartphones like they always do with the option of using QNX for the touchscreen.
    To me the best way to approach Android Auto/Carplay in relation to QNX is computer OS and Blend. Blend is a conduit for the phone functions on the computer, similarly Android Auto/Carplay API allows in-car controls/display to access the apps on the smartphone. One wouldn't say BB10 runs on Windows via Blend, they are separate entities, Blend just allows access and bidirectional data.
    12-02-15 05:31 PM
  12. early2bed's Avatar
    QNX (car os)- people write apps for it. And you are saying, BlackBerry should disallow people from writing apps for QNX. Then QNX would become like BlackBerry 10 OS. Excellent but with no app support. And car manufacturers will look for another OS that app-industry will want to write apps for.
    I guess you could consider Android Auto and CarPlay to be apps that run on QNX that allow Android and Apple smartphones running their own apps to interface with the dash touch display, etc. QNX isn't a traditional app platform, though, because the programs must be developed by BlackBerry. Is there a QNX SDK that is publicly available?

    It sounds like the app-industry you are referring to consists of QNX engineers developing software modules that conform to Android Auto and CarPlay protocols. Presumably, these become part of the OS of the dash unit.
    Last edited by early2bed; 12-02-15 at 05:44 PM.
    12-02-15 05:32 PM
  13. Cozz4ever's Avatar
    I guess you could consider Android Auto and CarPlay to be apps that run on QNX that allow Android and Apple smartphones running their own apps to interface with the dash touch display, etc. QNX isn't a traditional app platform, though, because the programs must be developed by BlackBerry. Is there a QNX SDK that is publicly available?

    It sounds like the app-industry you are referring to consists of QNX engineers developing software modules that conform to Android Auto and CarPlay protocols. Presumably, these become part of the OS of the dash unit.
    All programs, either hardware based or software based must be developed and updated by their developers. QNX Is no different. One reason a majority of auto manufacturers prefer QNX is because of its versatility. It's the only OS that supports every single can bus protocol on the market. Chrysler runs several can bus protocols. Thus why QNX was used early on. They don't have to re-engineer ecus for different vehicles. QNX Is much more than some pretty screen that plays sounds such as the radio. Mercedes-Benz digital screen dashes first used on the S-class is all run by QNX. Night vision modules in that car is all QNX as well. Everything is. The list goes on and on.

    Posted via CB10
    12-02-15 07:27 PM
  14. early2bed's Avatar
    QNX Is much more than some pretty screen that plays sounds such as the radio. Mercedes-Benz digital screen dashes first used on the S-class is all run by QNX. Night vision modules in that car is all QNX as well. Everything is. The list goes on and on.
    In Android Auto and CarPlay mode, however, all of the apps are running on the smartphone and look and work pretty much the same on any in-dash unit even if that unit doesn't run QNX. Any smartphone app that looks and runs the same on a non-QNX dash unit probably isn't very dependent on QNX. There are dash units that run Android Auto and CarPlay without QNX.
    12-02-15 09:16 PM
  15. Cozz4ever's Avatar
    In Android Auto and CarPlay mode, however, all of the apps are running on the smartphone and look and work pretty much the same on any in-dash unit even if that unit doesn't run QNX. Any smartphone app that looks and runs the same on a non-QNX dash unit probably isn't very dependent on QNX. There are dash units that run Android Auto and CarPlay without QNX.
    You still think Carplay is the same as QNX. The fact is QNX doesn't need car play to give you those features. It's Apple forcing manufacturers to use their private protocols and practices. And no, they don't look the same at all. Resolution isn't impressive and low frame rate on the maps.

    Posted via CB10
    12-02-15 09:47 PM
  16. early2bed's Avatar
    You still think Carplay is the same as QNX. The fact is QNX doesn't need car play to give you those features. It's Apple forcing manufacturers to use their private protocols and practices. And no, they don't look the same at all. Resolution isn't impressive and low frame rate on the maps.
    Of course, Apple wants iPhone apps and services to be used. Consumers want to also because they don't want to pay for another data plan and content that they subscribe to on their iPhone.

    Sure QNX doesn't need the smartphones. The car makers would love to continue to control and monetize auto infotainment but they realize that people will just plug in their smart phones and mount them on their dash. Ever see an Uber driver not using their smart phone for navigation? That would seem to be a natural app to show up on the dash. I wonder if we will ever see an Uber app running on QNX without a smart phone?

    It's kind of like what hotels do with their internet and media services. They charge too much and innovate too little. Hotels don't need Pandora or Netflix to deliver entertainment to their guests. That doesn't mean that they deserve the exclusive right to force their guests to use those in house services.

    At least with CarPlay and Android Auto, people might still be willing to pay for the nav upgrade just to be able to put that content on the screen and plenty of people will still subscribe to their services. It's not all bad for the carmakers.

    If car owners are forced to use QNX in their cars then then we will definitely be paying for content and services and waiting for apps.

    I don't really understand not wanting Android Auto or CarPlay here since within the next few years most BlackBerry users will probably be using Android. At that point, wouldn't it be nice to just be able to plug in your Blackberry and see all of your relevant apps on your dash unit? If so then you want the next car that you buy to have it. Users are free to not plug in their smart phones and just use QNX if they don't want to. Priv users might prefer higher resolution and frame rate at times. But you have to admit it would be pretty cool to have your Hub messages read to you without having to configure anything or if you're in a rental car.
    Last edited by early2bed; 12-03-15 at 08:38 AM.
    12-03-15 08:05 AM
  17. early2bed's Avatar
    Here's a new WSJ article on auto makers vs Apple CarPlay and Android Auto for in-dash systems. The auto makers consider these dash systems to be under their control. It certainly doesn't seem like they are letting QNX call the shots in any way.

    Auto Makers Losing Battle for Dashboard Apps
    Hyundai gives up building its own software; CarPlay, Android Auto gain new support

    Updated Dec. 9, 2015 9:30 p.m. ET
    7 COMMENTS
    After several years of building its own software to connect mobile apps in its cars, Hyundai Motor Co. is throwing in the towel, becoming the first global auto maker to embrace software from potential rivals Apple Inc. and Alphabet Inc.s Google.

    It may not be the last, according to drivers and industry researchers. New car buyers are asking for vehicles that have Apples CarPlay and Alphabets Android Auto, which control the dashboard displays now providing drivers with information and entertainmentand perhaps future revenue from purchases.

    CarPlay and Android Auto only recently have been installed by auto makers, but could be in 80% of new cars sold by 2022, says researcher IHS. Autotrader.com, an auto website, says 44% of its customers surveyed would pay $1,499 more to get a car with CarPlay or Android Auto.

    Tyler Theilken, 24 years old, of Springfield, Ill., recently installed Apples CarPlay in his Jeep Wrangler using an aftermarket Alpine Electronics Inc. system. Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV, which owns the Jeep brand, offers its own rival UConnect system, and Mr. Theilken has used Ford Motor Co.s rival Sync system.

    Ford and others want to retain control of dashboard interfaces. ENLARGE
    Ford and others want to retain control of dashboard interfaces. PHOTO: ASSOCIATED PRESS, FORD
    I dont see how any in-car system could be better, he said of CarPlay. I think one day, those [auto maker systems] are going to be gone.

    Car makers are loath to give up the key information and entertainment links in their vehicles, hoping to turn dashboard technology into a reason for buying their vehicle and potentially to earn revenue by selling information and mobile connectivity.

    As a result, many auto makers continue to spend big money working on their own systems, even as they increasingly offer links to Apple or Googles systems alongside their own. General Motors Co. and Honda Motor Co., for instance, recently started installing CarPlay as an option in new vehicles, and both say the software is well received. Android Auto is coming soon for their newer models.

    Jay Guzowski, a senior product manager at American Honda, said the company cant give up on its own system, called HondaLink. Not everybody has an Apple or Android phone or they arent interested in using that environment, he said.

    In part, Toyota and others say Apple and Google systems arent the right fit for every buyer. Not everyone owns a smartphone capable of linking to CarPlay or Android Auto, and the third-party systems cant be used in every market.

    In countries including China, the modified Android operating systems used in phones wont work with Android Auto and Apples iPhone isnt as widely used as it is in Europe and the U.S. In addition, the Apple and Android systems dont typically link to the buttons on a cars steering wheel, or function well in areas with poor mobile phone reception. The systems also dont connect to the autos heating and air-conditioning.

    Potentially handing troves of driver and driving-data to Apple or Google also presents red flags, and has ignited debate among auto executives.

    We are competing for mind-share inside the vehicle, said Don Butler, Ford Motors director of connected vehicles. The Dearborn, Mich., company first released its Sync system, which runs apps, sends texts and receives messages through voice activation, in its 2008 model year cars.

    Earlier Video
    Apple announced CarPlay, the newest version of its voice enabled in-car technology will debut on select 2014 models later this year. Walter Piecyck, BTIG wireless research analyst, discusses the car-tech market on digits. Photo: Apple. (March 3, 2014)
    Ford developed an open-source language for apps that it is trying to convince other auto makers to use so that car companies dont have to each develop their own connection to popular online music services, such as Spotify and Pandora.

    There is evidence auto makers face a tough sell to keep customers from defecting to rival systems. CarPlay and Android Autos voice recognition, which rely on cloud-based computing, can make retrieving driving directions, using phone functions or asking for music selections easier.

    California research firm J.D. Power and Associatess June survey of new car buyers found the greatest complaints involved vehicle connectivity systems. The auto makers voice recognition and Bluetooth pairing were top concerns, it said.

    Over the last five years, a lot of these auto makers have spent a lot of blood, sweat and tears developing their own system, with their own brands and thats threatened because of customers preferring to use their Apple and Google smartphones, said Mark Boyadjis, senior automotive analyst with IHS Automotive.

    Hyundai, which has a research and engineering center in Silicon Valley, agrees. Basically what weve found is that it is very hard if not impossible to keep up with just the music apps that consumers want, said Cason Grover, a manager in technology planning for Hyundais U.S. arm. When you have got solutions like Android Auto and CarPlay, they can just go to them.

    Write to Mike Ramsey at michael.ramsey@wsj.com
    12-10-15 01:22 AM
  18. Superdupont 2_0's Avatar
    Here's a new WSJ article on auto makers vs Apple CarPlay and Android Auto for in-dash systems. The auto makers consider these dash systems to be under their control. It certainly doesn't seem like they are letting QNX call the shots in any way.
    I am not really following this topic, but I guess you could be wrong.

    Last time I checked it, QNX was considered as ubiquitous base platform which guarantees that a car manufacturer can independently decide (for each car model) whether Apple or Google or any other solution will be implemented on top.

    You are right in a certain sense that BlackBerry hasn't much to say here, because the neutrality of QNX is its selling point.

    At least that was my last take on QNX role for the automotive industry.
    12-10-15 04:07 AM
  19. tinochiko's Avatar
    I did a summary of all their different sides here ;

    https://techcrazey.wordpress.com/201...s-still-black/

    And an updated one here;

    https://medium.com/@NLostW/blackberr...af0#.nuwi2yz3x

    Thinking about doing an updated one every quarter, would anyone find that useful?

    *apologies for the shameless promotion but it's relevant to the thread lol

    Posted via CB10
    12-10-15 04:12 AM
  20. early2bed's Avatar
    Last time I checked it, QNX was considered as ubiquitous base platform which guarantees that a car manufacturer can independently decide (for each car model) whether Apple or Google or any other solution will be implemented on top.
    I would agree with this except for "on top." The problem for auto companies is that Android Auto and CarPlay bypass most of the content services that automakers very much want to control and benefit from. They are losing the battle due to consumer preferences for using their smartphone for content.

    After all, if I'm listening to an audiobook or music, I want what's on my smartphone. My messages are coming through my smart phone. The voice commands that I have learned are on my smartphone. Why would I want to have to set up QNX to do that? And when I use a rental there's nothing to set up. It just works.

    About the only thing they have left is "not everybody has an iPhone or compatible Android smartphone" which is true, however, the customers that are most likely to access this technology probably have compatible smart phones.
    Last edited by early2bed; 12-10-15 at 07:39 AM.
    12-10-15 07:27 AM
  21. tinochiko's Avatar
    I would agree with this except for "on top." The problem for auto companies is that Android Auto and CarPlay bypass most of the content services that automakers very much want to control. They are losing the battle due to consumer preferences for using their smartphone for content.

    After all, if I'm listening to an audiobook or music, I want what's on my smartphone. My messages are coming through my smart phone. The voice commands that I have learned are on my smartphone. Why would I want to have to set up QNX to do that? And when I use a rental there's nothing to set up. It just works.

    About the only thing they have left is "not everybody has an iPhone or compatible Android smartphone" which is true, however, the customers that are most likely to access this technology probably have compatible smart phones.
    And the bigger problem is a lot of native automaker systems are.... crap

    It might be too late but QNX not just the kernal but their front end concepts are beautiful, and with BlackBerry being multi-platform they could push it as the best solution compatible with all users even if they don't have a smartphone

    Posted via CB10
    12-10-15 07:39 AM
  22. Cozz4ever's Avatar
    I would agree with this except for "on top." The problem for auto companies is that Android Auto and CarPlay bypass most of the content services that automakers very much want to control and benefit from. They are losing the battle due to consumer preferences for using their smartphone for content.

    After all, if I'm listening to an audiobook or music, I want what's on my smartphone. My messages are coming through my smart phone. The voice commands that I have learned are on my smartphone. Why would I want to have to set up QNX to do that? And when I use a rental there's nothing to set up. It just works.

    About the only thing they have left is "not everybody has an iPhone or compatible Android smartphone" which is true, however, the customers that are most likely to access this technology probably have compatible smart phones.
    Android Auto and car play bypass nothing. It's more options to the user. You will always set up QNX for all your features. It is QNX that controls the interface to your phone, not the other way around. As I said before, it's a communication interface using apple's and Googles protocols. You have no direct control over Google auto or Carplay

    Posted via CB10
    12-10-15 08:44 AM
  23. early2bed's Avatar
    Android Auto and car play bypass nothing. It's more options to the user. You will always set up QNX for all your features. It is QNX that controls the interface to your phone, not the other way around. As I said before, it's a communication interface using apple's and Googles protocols. You have no direct control over Google auto or Carplay
    So, if I plug in my Priv or iPhone, my messages won't show up on the dash screen unless I have logged my Apple ID or Google via QNX? That would be pretty bad since the messages are going to show up on my smartphone and it's plugged into the dash unit.

    The article clearly indicates that auto makers feel like they are competing with Apple and Google over in-auto mindshare.
    12-10-15 09:15 AM
  24. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Android Auto and car play bypass nothing. It's more options to the user. You will always set up QNX for all your features. It is QNX that controls the interface to your phone, not the other way around. As I said before, it's a communication interface using apple's and Googles protocols. You have no direct control over Google auto or Carplay
    I'm not sure if you understand how these systems work, but essentially, Car Play and Android Auto will simply turn the entertainment portion of the QNX system into a kind of "dumb terminal" for the smartphone. The smartphone's apps will be displayed on the car's screen - but run on the phone - and the car's mic and touchscreen input is fed back into the phone. The QNX apps get none of that information, and the QNX apps for navigation and entertainment aren't running.

    And, as has been said a number of times already, QNX isn't required at all - the car companies can use other middleware, such as LinuxRT or even Microsoft's Sync. Obviously some middleware is required, and QNX is the most popular, but car manufacturers could switch middleware and it wouldn't affect Car Play or Android Auto's ability to work.
    12-10-15 10:29 AM
  25. glwerry's Avatar
    With the understanding that I'm NOT a mobile apps author, I do have a bit of experience going cross-platform. I have played key parts in projects to move major software from one platform (HP MPE to HP Unix, for example) to another.

    The web analogy is weak. Yes, you have a great web developer who is coding something that works great across platforms - but it's likely using the "vanilla" HTML5 that's already available on each platform.

    If you're trying to develop for a different operating system, then you're going DOWN A LEVEL of code, into MUCH GREATER COMPLEXITY.
    I was using COBOL on HP MPE, going to COBOL on HP-UX (Unix). Huge differences. Even with some really clever consultants doing the really heavy lifting, we still had substantial differences between the programming on the two platforms.

    Now, if I was going to MAINTAIN BOTH of those platforms, I am now dealing with two SEPARATE sets of code.
    So, in the mobile apps world, if I want to have an app on iOS, Android and BB10, that's now THREE sets of rules and likely code - it's NOT easy, it's a lot of work!

    And, if you're trying to be really innovative and cutting edge, then you're in the position of going deeper into the operating system's features and special "hooks" - then you can wind up with very specialized code that only works on ONE platform.

    I think a lot of people really under-estimate the difficulty of this kind of stuff.
    app_Developer likes this.
    12-10-15 10:51 AM
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