11-16-08 10:12 PM
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  1. chairguru22's Avatar
    If you think about it. The Curve would've cost $300+ retail w/o contract. So when you sign up for a 2-yr contract, get a Curve for $100, pay the ETF, get it unlocked, and you are still under $300... hmmm...
    03-25-08 02:01 AM
  2. lush242000's Avatar
    Anyone got a fire extinguisher?
    03-25-08 06:20 AM
  3. P.H.A.D.E's Avatar
    Anyone got a fire extinguisher?
    Damn Right lush242000


    But In MY Opinion, It All Matters Your Status With Your Carrier!!!!
    Basically, If You Are Happy With Your Carrier, Cancelling Wont Come To Mind.

    I Went From Sprint, To T-Mobile, To Cingular--> At&t, To Amp'd Mobile, And Back To Sprint

    And I Have Never Paid An ETF!!!!

    And Where The FUNK is sunkast, chaz Adlen & daddybear (They're In Every Posting) Shoooooooooooot Cates Here!!!
    03-25-08 12:41 PM
  4. Blacklatino's Avatar
    Yeah, but does McDonalds discount your meal to buy from the montly?

    Does your dentist give you a discount on the deductibles to stay with them?

    Does your water company give you a discount on your water bill to stay with them for two years.

    Does your power company give you a discount on you power bill to stay with them for two years.

    Does your landline company give you a discount on cordless phones?


    Your able to bring your own $600 dollar device and start up service with at&t. Prepaid son!

    Wireless carriers aren't ripping you off when they give you a razr for free and you sign the dotted line, but when another carrier has what you want, its a rip off. I bet if the made all their non-prepid plans contract free and charged you $400-$800 for a phone, you would still call it a rip off. Its called subsidy man.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

    To some up your comments "You get what you pay for, and you don't get what you don't pay for"
    03-25-08 12:50 PM
  5. jackie treehorn's Avatar
    Yep, you go right ahead and get yourself cancelled, and ruin your credit so next month you'll be on a pay-as-you-go plan.

    That is the plan for you if you don't believe in honoring contracts you enter into voluntarily.

    Good luck with your new phone.

    Patrick
    there's one thing wrong with this, well two. yea it is kinda crappy to do that and phone companies do not report to any credit agencies no matter what they tell you. they only want a deposit for people with no credit is because they just want to make sure that you will really pay
    03-25-08 03:42 PM
  6. MikeQuery's Avatar
    Don't mince words folks. How do you REALLY feel?
    03-25-08 04:11 PM
  7. mikeslammer's Avatar
    I agree that it is an extortion fee.

    Whatever happened to "the customer is always right?"

    Companies get away with a lot.

    I don't think the cost to run cell phones is as high as they justify all the fees for.
    03-25-08 04:17 PM
  8. bdhes's Avatar
    Feel like I just read the script for a really cheesy episode of LA Law. :-)
    Doesn't it really boil down to we want what they have so we just have to pick the lesser of the evils? Does for me anyways.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-25-08 04:43 PM
  9. ChrisGrant's Avatar
    simple solution.. view the coverage map... find an area with NO service whatsoever..find someone in the area you know... state that you now work from home, and are moving to said location . . change billing address. By law (in new jersey) they have to give you the option to exith the contract, especially if that is you ONLY phone. Hello emergency calls?!?

    It works, all providers, and yes you can throw in your 2 cents, but until you do it yourself, don't argue with me.

    cheers, and have fun!
    03-25-08 05:03 PM
  10. Apollo_Creed's Avatar
    Did I just step into the WWE Warzone???

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-25-08 05:20 PM
  11. jenaywins's Avatar
    there's one thing wrong with this, well two. yea it is kinda crappy to do that and phone companies do not report to any credit agencies no matter what they tell you. they only want a deposit for people with no credit is because they just want to make sure that you will really pay
    Sorry to jump in here, but that is absolutely not true... Nextel does report and I know that from experience... Dirty overpriced buggers that they are!
    03-25-08 06:45 PM
  12. Alienspawn's Avatar
    I purchased a 8100 from Internet ad from Wirefly. Deal was I got the phone for $50.00 with a rebate and service from T-Mobile. I was satisfied with the Pearl until I discovered that T-Mobile coverage didn't extend to my work place about 60 miles from my home. Then I discovered that my credit card was charged not $50.00 but $150.00 for the device. Disputed the charge with my card issuer and they investigated. The charge came from some cell phone provider in Northern Virginia. They produced the order that I had made through WireFly and I had to pay the full $150.00. Then when Verizon came out with the 8130 I used my new for 2 to get that device. I then tried to get the T-Mobile contract dropped and they wouldn't budge. Fought with them for month's to no avail. Only way they would let me out of the contract w/data package was to pay the early termination fee and pay for the device again for the second time which I did. Even after all that they put a hit on my credit score. Needless to say I will have no dealings with T-Mobile or WireFly. Cell phone providers are the biggest crooks right behind the Insurance company. I refer to it as legalized crime and should be stopped.
    03-25-08 06:59 PM
  13. zigzagg321's Avatar
    ETF's are total crap. criminal. All you should have to do is pay for the remainder of the month you cancel in, and that's it.
    03-25-08 07:02 PM
  14. patrick.waugh's Avatar
    Good thing you believe so stronly in that ETF being a "rip-off" that you will NEVER sign a contract with a carrier again.

    Enjoy your new pre-paid rate which is, of course, no different from AT&T's rate because they NEVER discount anything just becasue you sign a contract to stay with them for 2-years. And, you can pickup a Blackberry for cheap anywhere right? <snicker>

    Hey, you pay your cable bill in advance, why wouldn't you pay your phone bill in advance too?

    Patrick

    *NOTE: To those not reading carefully, the preceeding has been entirely sarcastic, and designed to help mr. wirelessforever to better understand his own flawed logic (or lack thereof). =)
    03-25-08 08:30 PM
  15. Duvi's Avatar
    Does your dentist give you a discount on the deductibles to stay with them??

    Neither does any cell phone carrier I've ever used give me any such discount

    Does your water company give you a discount on your water bill to stay with them for two years.

    Neither does any cell phone carrier I've ever used give me any such discount

    Does your power company give you a discount on you power bill to stay with them for two years.

    Neither does any cell phone carrier I've ever used give me any such discount

    Does your landline company give you a discount on cordless phones?

    Neither does any cell phone carrier I've ever used give me any such discount


    Your responses did not make any sense my good friend. I was comparing it to the discount you receive on wireless handsets by signing a contract. You don't sign a contract, why would they give you a discount on the product? Bally's - If you sign a contract for three years, you monthly payments are less than a person who has not contract and pays on a month to month basis.






    More sillyness beyond words.

    Would you pay your water bill on a prepaid basis? Run out of water 2 days before the end of the month and not have water until you refresh your "water card?" NO.

    Would you pay your electric bill on a prepaid basis? Run out of electricity 2 days before the end of the month and not have electricity until you refresh your "electricity card?" NO.

    Would you pay your cable TV bill on a prepaid basis? Run out of cable TV 2 days before the end of the month and not have TV until you refresh your "TV card?" NO.

    No other company requires you to pay extortion in order to use a basic service of life. Prepaid? RIDICULOUS. You don't run the rest of your life like that. It AMAZES me how people defend this RIDICULOUS practice which is nothing other than extortion.

    Once again, doesn't make sense. You aren't signing contracts for those services.


    You make a LOT of ridiculous assumptions and conclusions without any basis in fact.

    Not assumptions, I work for them, therefore I am provided with the facts.

    Over the last ten years I have had numerous phones. With the exception of my current Curve, ALL of my previous phones have been unbranded phones NOT purchased from any carrier. So your argument is bunk.

    Unlocked users don't make up more than 3-5% of the 60+ million customers. What you are saying is that you would like AT&T to start selling unsibsidized devices because your able to pay for phones at those rates. You (unlocked users, including me) do not make up the majority that don't want to spend that much on a device. I buy unlocked phones myself, but this doesn't mean I don't like subsidized phones from time to time.

    Secondly, with respect to my Curve, I HAD to buy this from my carrier because it was impractical to get it anywhere else. I paid $250 for my Curve the first day it was released and I'll d*mn well guarantee you it did not cost RIM or my carrier $250 to manufacture and sell that phone to me. Subsidy? Ridiculous.

    You do understand RIM has to pay their employees? AT&T has to pay their employees (including I.) Then again you are mis-informed on what ETFs cover and I am here to help you understand. It's not for just lowering the price of the phones that you are charged an ETF. It's to help pay employees, build networks, buy-outs amongst other things.

    Carriers have colluded for years with this ETF nonsense and it should be made illegal. It is basically a violation of U.S. anti-trust laws and should be investigated and shut down by the U.S. Justice Department.

    You don't have to signed a contract! Therefore how is it illegal. Also you are able to 'google' and see that AT&T is starting prorated ETFs. It's ashamed I wouldn't be able to tell you the reasoning for this as I do love my job.
    I'm not defending ETFs or AT&T, but letting you know there is a reason for everything. I would love there to be no ETFs as this would force carriers to have better pricing like these regional carriers with everything unlimited for $50. But there is a reason why they are regional and will either stay regional or get bought out.
    03-25-08 09:10 PM
  16. Duvi's Avatar
    simple solution.. view the coverage map... find an area with NO service whatsoever..find someone in the area you know... state that you now work from home, and are moving to said location . . change billing address. By law (in new jersey) they have to give you the option to exith the contract, especially if that is you ONLY phone. Hello emergency calls?!?

    It works, all providers, and yes you can throw in your 2 cents, but until you do it yourself, don't argue with me.

    cheers, and have fun!
    That's if they receive a lazy representative. I actually have my reps look at where the device is being used. They also check for start of service to verify that the address wasn't changed. All that isn't worth the hassle for me. I either pay up and shut up.
    03-25-08 09:15 PM
  17. Duvi's Avatar
    Another way to get out of a cell phone contract is to cancel within 30 of a price change. I know with Sprint there is a clause that state something like "customer has 30 day to cancel service after notice of price change is giving" (something to that effect). By the company raising rate it voids the contract. By not cancelling you are now agreeing to the new terms. I know for a fact that this is true b/c I just got a letter from Sprint informing me of a price change and in the letter it stated I have 30 days to leave without paying a ETF

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    The only way you are able to cancel out is if they were to change your rate plan rate. Pay per use features do not get you out of your contract.

    For example.... If a carrier changed the rate of the nation plan you are currently on from 29.99 to 39.99, you can leave ETF free.
    03-25-08 09:21 PM
  18. wirelessforever's Avatar
    If you sign a contract for three years, you monthly payments are less than a person who has not contract and pays on a month to month basis.
    What nonsense.

    If you want to initiate cell phone service with virtually any carrier today, you will need to sign a "contract" (translation: "agree to have a gun held to your head and have money extorted from you"). You cannot get normal cell phone service without this ridiculous ETF nonsense. You claim to work for AT&T, you should know this.


    I work for them, therefore I am provided with the facts.
    Facts are one thing. Propaganda and slick corporate spin are something quite different. And they are not the same things.

    What you are saying is that you would like AT&T to start selling unsibsidized devices because your able to pay for phones at those rates.
    Actually I'm not saying that at all. If my current carrier tripled their rates and AT&T offered to give me free service for life, I wouldn't go to AT&T. AT&T is a HORRIBLE company and I would never use them under any circumstances unless they were the only cell-phone company left in the entire world.

    What I was saying and I believe I've now said this about 100 times and you keep ignoring it when I say it is .... "NO OTHER BUSINESS IN THE WORLD DOES BUSINESS THIS WAY." You simply cannot make a cogent argument in favor of ETFs because they are just ... a.) anti-consumer; and, b.) a lame strategy for cell-phone companies to reduce customer churn for poor service. Plain and simple.

    And this ridiculous canard that you make about needing ETFs to build networks and hire people is so lame I get dizzy just reading that pap. Electricity companies build nuclear power reactors and string high voltage wiring all over their service areas. Their operating costs make cell-phone operators look like kids selling lemonade on the street corner by comparison. Yet electricity companies don't hold guns to their customers' heads and demand ETF contracts.

    You do understand RIM has to pay their employees? AT&T has to pay their employees
    So does Time Warner Cable. So does Pacific Gas and Electric. So does Southern California Edison. So do thousand of companies across this nation. And guess what? Other than cell-phone companies and some sleazy gym club operators, no one pulls this tired old ETF garbage in other industries. And as mentioned, Pacific Gas and Electric still build nuclear power plants and they do so without the need to extort ETF money from their customers.


    Then again you are mis-informed on what ETFs cover and I am here to help you understand.
    How condecending. You my friend have much to learn. Are you well read about U.S. Anti Trust statutes? I doubt it.

    It's not for just lowering the price of the phones that you are charged an ETF. It's to help pay employees, build networks, buy-outs amongst other things.
    LOL. We assuming that's true, perhaps you could explain why these precious ETFs are not charged for any other utility service known to man. Indeed they are not even charged by LANDLINE phone operators.


    You don't have to signed a contract!
    YES YOU DO! Sheeeeesh. How ridiculous this is. You cannot get a regular cell phone account without signing a contract. It's the ONLY way to get a normal account. And the tired canard about prepaid is silly. Please don't waste my time with that lame dodge. Normal people don't run their lives setting up prepaid accounts for essential services they use every day.


    there is a reason for everything
    Indeed there is. ETFs reduce churn. Lackluster carriers can run slick marketing campaigns and offer special pricing packages to "lure" the unsuspecting into signing a contract and then WHAM they have a predictable revenue stream to sell to their bankers. It's unAmerican. Historically, the American way is that consumers get to vote with their feet to get the best product or service. Cell phone carriers conspire to lock people in whether it's in the consumers' best interests to be locked in or not.

    It is shameful practice and it should be make illegal. Again, other than cell-phone carriers and sleazy gym clubs, this practice exists no where else in consumers lives. It is time for this shameful practice to be brought to an end. There is no logical defense for the practice.
    03-27-08 03:52 AM
  19. cate's Avatar
    There you are. I've missed you!

    Verizon is ok. Not crazy about CDMA. Want a technology that will work anywhere (not just USA, North Korea and South Africa). Lotsa billing problems. But overall good coverage in most big cities. And pretty good coverage in Los Angeles.

    I'm still happiest with TMo.
    hi you :]

    yeah, i was thinking about switching to tmo, but verizon ain't so bad in socal. i'm happy for the most part.
    03-27-08 04:01 AM
  20. jackie treehorn's Avatar
    Sorry to jump in here, but that is absolutely not true... Nextel does report and I know that from experience... Dirty overpriced buggers that they are!
    well then i stand corrected thank you for setting me straight. that's the frist one i've heard of that does. sorry for your experience with them
    03-27-08 12:23 PM
  21. overmydeadberry's Avatar
    You know... Simply said att vzw sprint... And whoever else are companies out for profit... Our gain is their loss.... And visa versa... So deal with it! Its real world reality! You want a cell pay for it... Cause you'll be paying one way or another...

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-27-08 12:34 PM
  22. tp_cracker's Avatar
    Lets see, if you rent an apartment, you pay a deposit, if you leave early, they get your deposit. That would be similar to an ETF, just paid out differently. I don't believe they are illegal, but I think they should shrink during the lifetime of the contract. Lets say your ETF is $250 on a two year plan, after one year it should be $125.

    BTW, if your unhappy and think they should be illegal, write your local congressional rep and see if you get a response. Since they are in the wireless carriers back pocket I doubt you will, but its worth a try.
    03-27-08 12:51 PM
  23. jenaywins's Avatar
    well then i stand corrected thank you for setting me straight. that's the frist one i've heard of that does. sorry for your experience with them
    thats ok - im not here to set anyone straight! just spreading the word that nextel sucks!
    03-27-08 03:22 PM
  24. jenaywins's Avatar
    oh.. and wirelessforever... an interesting little tidbit... ive noticed that in all your postings you talk about how no other companies in any industry charge an etf... well that is almost true. i actually just quit tanning at my usual place because i moved. i had my credit card on file with them and just had them take the $23 a month for unlimited tanning directly from my account. when i left there, i noticed they took out $48. yes, thats right, an etf at a tanning salon!! true story....
    03-27-08 03:26 PM
  25. wirelessforever's Avatar
    Lets see, if you rent an apartment, you pay a deposit, if you leave early, they get your deposit. That would be similar to an ETF
    This is ridiculous beyond words.

    In an apartment, a landlord is giving you unchecked access to a piece of property. You could paint the walls orange and steal all the bathroom fixtures and move out leaving the landlord in a pretty big pickle. You could also trash the apartment and require the landlord to pay cleaning crews to patch the place up. THAT is why you are charged a deposit for property.

    Oh and by the way, usually if you move out and leave the place in good shape -- you receive your deposit back in total.

    If you leave ANY carrier today to move to another, there is no cost to the carrier. You've not materially changed their network by doing any damage and leaving. You haven't altered their cell towers by your limited use of them.

    We need to get real here.
    Last edited by wirelessforever; 03-27-08 at 03:41 PM.
    03-27-08 03:38 PM
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