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02-18-17 06:59 PM
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  1. docfreed's Avatar
    So there are 23 Million Blackberry users give or take - OK if Chen would just re-issue the Passport SE and
    Classic (doesn't have to change a thing) and price them right and sell to less than 5% of the crowd per
    year at a profit of $100 he could make $100 million.
    Even at $50 profit/phone I think the Blackberry faithful would buy them. I'm sure
    the tooling, NRE's etc are already amortized - he's missing an opportunity. Everything
    is already paid for, R&D, OS (that's BB10 folks), etc. That's 1 million phones per year
    much better than the Priv.
    Of course that assumes there is still someone at Blackberry who knows how to effectively
    use their assets
    06-24-16 02:39 PM
  2. Sairos's Avatar
    Phones are not like PS4 games.. They don't often get remastered and reissued.. This trend started somewhat with iPhone and then Android phones.. But mainly because they can't keep making major design changes every year.

    There will be only two devices coming soon. If they were to be successful.. Then we'll probably see more..

    In the future, a Passport II with android and no keyboard might be a success.. A Classic won't, Because it appeals only to BB Loyalists. I can see the Rome selling only to BlackBerry loyalists too because of the keyboard.
    06-24-16 03:11 PM
  3. docfreed's Avatar
    So what's your point - a Classic won't appeal to Blackberry loyalists but a Rome will?
    There's no differentiation between Android phones - there is differentiation between
    BB10 and Android. The Priv showed this (aside from the dismal quality) - no one is
    buying it. At least BB10 is unique
    David Tyler likes this.
    06-24-16 03:26 PM
  4. Sairos's Avatar
    So what's your point - a Classic won't appeal to Blackberry loyalists but a Rome will?
    I think you need to read my post again so here you go

    "In the future, a Passport II with android and no keyboard might be a success.. A Classic won't, Because it appeals only to BB Loyalists. I can see the Rome selling only to BlackBerry loyalists too because of the keyboard."


    The Classic and the Rome Appeal to BlackBerry Loyalists only because of the Keyboard, that's what I was saying.
    ZayDub likes this.
    06-24-16 03:55 PM
  5. rebroker2009's Avatar
    I would buy two more bb10 Passports if the price drops to $200 CDN, wouldnt mind a couple of back up beasts in case my 18 month (approx) old dies. Wouldnt buy any if they were android. Would just use my Q10s

    Blackberry Passport Running 10.3.2.2813
    David Tyler and BigAl_BB9900 like this.
    06-24-16 04:05 PM
  6. thurask's Avatar
    So there are 23 Million Blackberry users give or take - OK if Chen would just re-issue the Passport SE and
    Classic (doesn't have to change a thing) and price them right and sell to less than 5% of the crowd per
    year at a profit of $100 he could make $100 million.
    Even at $50 profit/phone I think the Blackberry faithful would buy them. I'm sure
    the tooling, NRE's etc are already amortized - he's missing an opportunity. Everything
    is already paid for, R&D, OS (that's BB10 folks), etc. That's 1 million phones per year
    much better than the Priv.
    Of course that assumes there is still someone at Blackberry who knows how to effectively
    use their assets
    How can they price phones from 2014 right while still keeping up profit?
    06-24-16 04:10 PM
  7. CivilDissident's Avatar
    I re-purchased my beloved Bold 9900 after it was re-released a second time around... Bought 2, in fact... Didn't help BlackBerry any, but hey, I was happy... Toss out that Bronze Classic... Why not? I'll add it to my hoard with the Blues and Blacks I have on back-up... Again, it won't save BlackBerry, but I will be thrilled...

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by CivilDissident; 06-24-16 at 05:42 PM.
    Sairos likes this.
    06-24-16 05:23 PM
  8. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    There are still Passports available from previous device runs. They aren't selling in any real quantity, and BB has had to write down some of their value, because the remaining stock only move when they are priced at or below cost. Why would making more of them be a good idea for BB, if they can't make a profit on phones they've already got?
    TgeekB, LuvULongTime and web99 like this.
    06-24-16 07:19 PM
  9. eshropshire's Avatar
    Blackberry has already stated the Classic is out of production because they can no longer get parts.

    As Troy stated they already they have plenty of Passports in inventory. No need to do another run.

    Why would BBOS users switch to BB10 ?
    06-24-16 07:34 PM
  10. Sairos's Avatar
    There are still Passports available from previous device runs. They aren't selling in any real quantity, and BB has had to write down some of their value, because the remaining stock only move when they are priced at or below cost. Why would making more of them be a good idea for BB, if they can't make a profit on phones they've already got?
    Exactly.
    06-24-16 07:40 PM
  11. kvndoom's Avatar
    There are still Passports available from previous device runs. They aren't selling in any real quantity, and BB has had to write down some of their value, because the remaining stock only move when they are priced at or below cost. Why would making more of them be a good idea for BB, if they can't make a profit on phones they've already got?
    We can make it up in volume!!!!!
    Troy Tiscareno and JeepBB like this.
    06-24-16 08:36 PM
  12. Sairos's Avatar
    Blackberry has already stated the Classic is out of production because they can no longer get parts.
    I would like to know more about this subject.. Do you've a link to an article?
    ZayDub likes this.
    06-24-16 08:42 PM
  13. kvndoom's Avatar
    I would like to know more about this subject.. Do you've a link to an article?
    It was in an interview immediately after the March earnings report. He didn't name names, but reading between the lines, it's assumed that Qualcomm is no longer supplying the Snapdragon S4 which powered most BB10 phones.

    It's also part of the "drivers" debate. Presumably it would be cost prohibitive to get custom drivers made for a new SoC for BB10 usage. Everything under the sun already supports android, hence the ability for cheap droid phones to exist and thrive.
    ZayDub likes this.
    06-24-16 09:01 PM
  14. Sairos's Avatar
    It was in an interview immediately after the March earnings report. He didn't name names, but reading between the lines, it's assumed that Qualcomm is no longer supplying the Snapdragon S4 which powered most BB10 phones.

    It's also part of the "drivers" debate. Presumably it would be cost prohibitive to get custom drivers made for a new SoC for BB10 usage. Everything under the sun already supports android, hence the ability for cheap droid phones to exist and thrive.
    Interesting.. I'm glad they're still being sold out there.. Thanks for the info.
    06-24-16 09:06 PM
  15. fschmeck's Avatar
    It was in an interview immediately after the March earnings report. He didn't name names, but reading between the lines, it's assumed that Qualcomm is no longer supplying the Snapdragon S4 which powered most BB10 phones.

    It's also part of the "drivers" debate. Presumably it would be cost prohibitive to get custom drivers made for a new SoC for BB10 usage.
    Doesn't QNX have some expertise in this area? Don't they work with embedded systems and need to write hardware level code all the time? I'm not arguing that a BB10 comeback is feasible, but if the biggest issue is drivers I would have thought the QNX teams could help with this.



    Posted via CB10
    DonHB likes this.
    06-24-16 09:51 PM
  16. Maxxxpower's Avatar
    So there are 23 Million Blackberry users
    Last quarter. As of today there are only 20 Million BB users left. At best.
    TgeekB likes this.
    06-25-16 12:13 AM
  17. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Doesn't QNX have some expertise in this area? Don't they work with embedded systems and need to write hardware level code all the time? I'm not arguing that a BB10 comeback is feasible, but if the biggest issue is drivers I would have thought the QNX teams could help with this.
    Most deployments of QNX are on non-mobile chipsets, which are actually quite specialized. And Qualcomm, who supplies most of the SoCs used in the developed world, supplies Android drivers for their chips, due to demand (almost every Qualcomm SoC runs Android), but any alternative OSs need a custom set of drivers.

    While it's possible, with a lot of work, to reverse-engineer the hardware enough to make your own working driver, Qualcomm doesn't give out the specialized information that allows for efficient, well-tuned drivers. Meaning, the QNX team might be able to cobble something together that mostly runs, but it would either suck power, crash a lot, or be slow. If you want a high-quality set of drivers, you have to pay Qualcomm to provide them for you with their proprietary knowledge - and Qualcomm sees that as a revenue generator and charges premium prices for those drivers.

    That's why BB kept reusing the same S4 Plus SoC and other components - they had to pay handsomely for the drivers for those parts, and needed to spread those costs across as many sold phones as possible to keep the cost-per-phone down. Of course, they also have to tune the OS itself for each chipset, so keeping the same component package reduced those costs as well.

    BB always knew that they were taking a big gamble that they'd be able to sell enough phones that they'd be able to spread those driver costs wide enough to keep the cost-per-phone reasonable - but they were assuming they'd be able to sell 20-40M phones per year. When they realized that they were only going to be able to sell a fraction of that, it was understood that, at best, it would mean having to stick to the same chipset for a very long time across multiple devices. The Passport is the only major exception, but it was a costly one, especially with the low number of phones sold, as Chen has said. Still, the PP was marketed as a "flagship" device, and there's no way they could have put a 3-year-old, mid-grade SoC in a phone and pass it off as a flagship, so they had to bite the bullet and pay for new drivers. I'm sure the cost of doing that was high on the list of reasons why BB10 was put out to pasture.
    06-25-16 12:15 AM
  18. Sairos's Avatar
    Last quarter. As of today there are only 20 Million BB users left. At best.
    Chen disputed that number, check Dun's comment.. But then again Chen might be confused.. Guess we'll never know but lets say its around 20 mil Give or take a few Millions xD.
    Last edited by Sairos; 06-25-16 at 11:53 AM.
    06-25-16 12:30 AM
  19. Maxxxpower's Avatar
    The official financial report says 20 mio users as of May 31, 2016. No need to check other sources or Chens drivel.
    http://forums.crackberry.com/general.../#post12479761
    Btw: Last quarter, they lost 1 mio users a month.
    cribble2k likes this.
    06-25-16 02:15 AM
  20. kvndoom's Avatar
    Most deployments of QNX are on non-mobile chipsets, which are actually quite specialized. And Qualcomm, who supplies most of the SoCs used in the developed world, supplies Android drivers for their chips, due to demand (almost every Qualcomm SoC runs Android), but any alternative OSs need a custom set of drivers.

    While it's possible, with a lot of work, to reverse-engineer the hardware enough to make your own working driver, Qualcomm doesn't give out the specialized information that allows for efficient, well-tuned drivers. Meaning, the QNX team might be able to cobble something together that mostly runs, but it would either suck power, crash a lot, or be slow. If you want a high-quality set of drivers, you have to pay Qualcomm to provide them for you with their proprietary knowledge - and Qualcomm sees that as a revenue generator and charges premium prices for those drivers.

    That's why BB kept reusing the same S4 Plus SoC and other components - they had to pay handsomely for the drivers for those parts, and needed to spread those costs across as many sold phones as possible to keep the cost-per-phone down. Of course, they also have to tune the OS itself for each chipset, so keeping the same component package reduced those costs as well.

    BB always knew that they were taking a big gamble that they'd be able to sell enough phones that they'd be able to spread those driver costs wide enough to keep the cost-per-phone reasonable - but they were assuming they'd be able to sell 20-40M phones per year. When they realized that they were only going to be able to sell a fraction of that, it was understood that, at best, it would mean having to stick to the same chipset for a very long time across multiple devices. The Passport is the only major exception, but it was a costly one, especially with the low number of phones sold, as Chen has said. Still, the PP was marketed as a "flagship" device, and there's no way they could have put a 3-year-old, mid-grade SoC in a phone and pass it off as a flagship, so they had to bite the bullet and pay for new drivers. I'm sure the cost of doing that was high on the list of reasons why BB10 was put out to pasture.
    I know people hate it when I make Microsoft comparisons, but um, well here's a Microsoft comparison:

    http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/...ystems-demise/

    Same kind of issue, really.

    Passport SE, "The BlockBerry" - Cricket Wireless
    BigAl_BB9900 likes this.
    06-25-16 04:17 AM
  21. ZayDub's Avatar
    Most deployments of QNX are on non-mobile chipsets, which are actually quite specialized. And Qualcomm, who supplies most of the SoCs used in the developed world, supplies Android drivers for their chips, due to demand (almost every Qualcomm SoC runs Android), but any alternative OSs need a custom set of drivers.

    While it's possible, with a lot of work, to reverse-engineer the hardware enough to make your own working driver, Qualcomm doesn't give out the specialized information that allows for efficient, well-tuned drivers. Meaning, the QNX team might be able to cobble something together that mostly runs, but it would either suck power, crash a lot, or be slow. If you want a high-quality set of drivers, you have to pay Qualcomm to provide them for you with their proprietary knowledge - and Qualcomm sees that as a revenue generator and charges premium prices for those drivers.

    That's why BB kept reusing the same S4 Plus SoC and other components - they had to pay handsomely for the drivers for those parts, and needed to spread those costs across as many sold phones as possible to keep the cost-per-phone down. Of course, they also have to tune the OS itself for each chipset, so keeping the same component package reduced those costs as well.

    BB always knew that they were taking a big gamble that they'd be able to sell enough phones that they'd be able to spread those driver costs wide enough to keep the cost-per-phone reasonable - but they were assuming they'd be able to sell 20-40M phones per year. When they realized that they were only going to be able to sell a fraction of that, it was understood that, at best, it would mean having to stick to the same chipset for a very long time across multiple devices. The Passport is the only major exception, but it was a costly one, especially with the low number of phones sold, as Chen has said. Still, the PP was marketed as a "flagship" device, and there's no way they could have put a 3-year-old, mid-grade SoC in a phone and pass it off as a flagship, so they had to bite the bullet and pay for new drivers. I'm sure the cost of doing that was high on the list of reasons why BB10 was put out to pasture.
    Thanks for the insights! Why not release new BB10 phones w/ the Passport drivers, sense they are already paid for -- aside from the fact that more BB10 phones may still not sell well -- the PP is best performing BB10 phone to date, and they could still reduce the costs of these drivers by spreading them out between other phone models as you mentioned. I'd think that a refreshed Q10, Classic, Z10 or Z30 would be awesome with the PPs speed!

    BBM Channel: C002165D3 Tour 9630 > Bold 9650 > Q10 > Playbook > Classic AND Passport SE!!!
    06-25-16 10:48 AM
  22. kvndoom's Avatar
    Thanks for the insights! Why not release new BB10 phones w/ the Passport drivers, sense they are already paid for -- aside from the fact that more BB10 phones may still not sell well -- the PP is best performing BB10 phone to date, and they could still reduce the costs of these drivers by spreading them out between other phone models as you mentioned. I'd think that a refreshed Q10, Classic, Z10 or Z30 would be awesome with the PPs speed!

    BBM Channel: C002165D3 Tour 9630 > Bold 9650 > Q10 > Playbook > Classic AND Passport SE!!!
    Kind of the same problem. The plastic and metal dies for making the current BB10 phones already exist, so the shell, glass, and batteries wouldn't be an issue. BUT, someone would have to build a new motherboard around the Snapdragon 801 that would fit those existing chassis. Basically, anything that has to be customized for Blackberry's sake will drive up the manufacturing costs, and subsequently, the retail price. Unfortunately phones aren't like PCs where you can just pop newer components into the same motherboard. (I wish!)

    A quick search on Great Satan Google, however, showed me that there are quite a few popular phones out there that use almost the exact same specs as the Passport! The One Plus One, for instance, uses an SD 801, but different clock speed, with the same 3GB RAM as the Passport. So theoretically (and I'm sure it's more complicated than this) Blackberry could install BB10 onto someone else's hardware that uses the same internals, and have little to no driver overhead. They would need at least some new chassis parts, though, to have their brand and logo in place.
    ZayDub and LuvULongTime like this.
    06-25-16 11:34 AM
  23. EchuOkan1's Avatar
    Phones are not like PS4 games.. They don't often get remastered and reissued.. This trend started somewhat with iPhone and then Android phones.. But mainly because they can't keep making major design changes every year.

    There will be only two devices coming soon. If they were to be successful.. Then we'll probably see more..

    In the future, a Passport II with android and no keyboard might be a success.. A Classic won't, Because it appeals only to BB Loyalists. I can see the Rome selling only to BlackBerry loyalists too because of the keyboard.
    Yeap. Even though I have used BlackBerry for a while, I did not go for the Priv for a while due to the keyboard. I don't even remember how to use it effectively any more. I received a Priv (not because I wanted one) and have not used the physical keyboard since I got it.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    06-25-16 11:46 AM
  24. EchuOkan1's Avatar
    So what's your point - a Classic won't appeal to Blackberry loyalists but a Rome will?
    There's no differentiation between Android phones - there is differentiation between
    BB10 and Android. The Priv showed this (aside from the dismal quality) - no one is
    buying it. At least BB10 is unique
    True; apparently people buy it and end up returning it. Even most faithful users do not like it since it is not BB10 running it.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    06-25-16 11:48 AM
  25. Sairos's Avatar
    Yeap. Even though I have used BlackBerry for a while, I did not go for the Priv for a while due to the keyboard. I don't even remember how to use it effectively any more. I received a Priv (not because I wanted one) and have not used the physical keyboard since I got it.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    I love the keyboards. Its a fantastic part of BlackBerry's devices but yeah this how the market is and how people want phones. Keyboards became obsolete.. It can't be our selling point and advantage anymore. The Priv should've been released without a keyboard.. It would've made it a little cheaper.. The whole phone could've been cheaper because there would have been no slider.. Our advantage in the Keyboard + Slider became a disadvantage, it raised the device's price and made it unattractive for people because they don't want a keyboard.

    The company's flagship phone must be without a keyboard so it would attract the masses out there.
    06-25-16 12:02 PM
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