03-04-10 09:51 AM
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  1. stuaw11's Avatar
    You dont need SSH for anything. All it does is give you access to the phone's file system, before the newer programs, from a PC which there are many other more popular ways to do. SSH is really for the real geeks of us. And none of the things you mentioned require SSH anyways, its only really good for one small purpose that most people dont even do.

    Its not like it comes with the jailbreak, you have to actively go seek it out in Cydia

    I know very few people besides myself with jailbroken phones who know what SSH is let alone installed it.




    Dont get me wrong, I couldnt care less which platform people choose honestly, I have nothing invested to care much what anyone else uses. But these fallacies used as arguments to bash the iphone are just really old now.

    People can think what they want about whats a "business phone" or who should not use the iphone, but thats merely one opinion and usually anti everything else but what they use with ridiculous assertions. And opinions are like a-holes; everyone has one and their's isnt special.
    Last edited by stuaw11; 03-01-10 at 06:55 PM.
    03-01-10 06:48 PM
  2. weblou's Avatar
    I never install leaked OS's. I only use "official" releases
    If you would look around the forum you would notice that I actually don't hate the iphone. But you are not going to say that the Iphone 3GS was made for multi tasking when you have to "Hack" the phone to get it.
    Now for calling people dump for not knowing SSH is a little out of line if you ask me. Maybe it's your job to know it or you have no life in play on your pc all day, but just because people have lives and there jobs does not involve any PC knowledge does not make them dump.
    You are acting like everyone should know this. But the truth is not even 30% of the Iphone users know anything about this.
    So please keep your insults for yourself.


    And why do people need to install leaked BB OSs and hybrids? Theyre EXACTLY the same as jailbreaking. And both can be removed if need be to get warranty service.

    This "you shouldnt need to jailbreak" is an old excuse for iphone haters. Its just as bas as "you shouldnt need to install a leaked OS or hybrid" to fix bugs line. Total FUD.


    On viruses- You can ONLY get a virus on the iphone right now if you installed SSH, left it on all the time, and didnt change the stock password. First, most users shouldnt be tinkering with SSH if they dont even want to jailbreak for fear of doing something to the phone. Second, if youre dumb enough not to change your default password, then you deserve a virus. You wouldnt leave a stock password on your voicemail or computer (if it came with a stock password to login), so why would you on your phone!?! Third, theres no reason to leave SSH always on even if you do need it installed (which 99% dont unless you know what youre doing). Thus, theres VERY little chance of getting a virus for the average jailbreaker.
    03-01-10 06:56 PM
  3. stuaw11's Avatar
    So please keep your insults for yourself.
    Maybe it's your job to know it or you have no life in play on your pc all day
    The irony


    And if so few people know about or use SSH then then my point is proven that iphone viruses are merely a paranoia and not the reality. In fact Ive heard of VERY few people's iphone getting a virus, and those were the tech geeks who were tinkering with SSH and their phone. Were there even any real world virus confirmations outside tests or done on purpose to show it could be done?

    Again, the SSH and virus arguments are just cop-outs to argue against the iphone. VERY few people even know what SSH is let alone would put it on or tinker with it. So its a "non issue" in fact.

    And I never said EVERYONE installs a leaked OS or hybrid, jsut like not EVERYONE jailbreaks. There are tens of millions of people happy with their iphone out of the box. But just as leaked OS or hybrids, there wouldnt be 2 large subforums here if it wasnt a desired option. Same with jailbreak, its just an option if you want the extra function.

    Not EVERYONE needs to jailbreak just like not EVERYONE needs multitasking. Ive never heard that multitasking MAKES a business phone or not, let alone a good general device or not. Its merely more iphone hater ammunition that makes no sense as if everyone has the same needs or desires and thats the only way it can be.

    These iphone vs BB debates sound like two 5 year olds arguing over whos action figure is better and one saying "well mine has wings!!" and the other says "oh yeh well mine has flexible arms!!!" In the end WHO CARES! Its what YOU prefer since thats what you bought and have to use, neither is "better" for everyone

    There are a lot of generalizations floating around attempting to be passed of as something sounding like a logical argument.
    Last edited by stuaw11; 03-01-10 at 07:16 PM.
    03-01-10 07:05 PM
  4. weblou's Avatar
    LOL I do agree on this... I just realized it . I know that it's not everyone that jailbreaks or installs leaked OS's. And it's true that allot of people are interested in it People will always want more from their devices. But the argument I was making was with the guy that said the Iphone 3GS was "made to multi task". The Iphone is a great device, and i really don't see a need to JB it, I did have mines Broken and didn't get any viruses but it did slow my phone down and freeze it up.

    here's some hacking news on the Iphone.....maybe could be helpful for some of you that don't really know about this much
    iPhone jailbreakers get hacked - Morten Grantzau, Free Agent 2010

    The irony


    And if so few people know about or use SSH then then my point is proven that iphone viruses are merely a paranoia and not the reality. In fact Ive heard of VERY few people's iphone getting a virus, and those were the tech geeks who were tinkering with SSH and their phone. Were there even any real world virus confirmations outside tests or done on purpose to show it could be done?

    Again, the SSH and virus arguments are just cop-outs to argue against the iphone. VERY few people even know what SSH is let alone would put it on or tinker with it. So its a "non issue" in fact.

    And I never said EVERYONE installs a leaked OS or hybrid, jsut like not EVERYONE jailbreaks. There are tens of millions of people happy with their iphone out of the box. But just as leaked OS or hybrids, there wouldnt be 2 large subforums here if it wasnt a desired option. Same with jailbreak, its just an option if you want the extra function.
    Last edited by TheBBman; 03-01-10 at 07:19 PM.
    03-01-10 07:12 PM
  5. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    BESX- only good if you have a server. It doesnt help the average individual user or small business owner. You still have to shell out for a server/PC, install Windows Server OS, and then leave it constantly running. Great for medium business where BES was to expensive, but its another niche product. The general individual consumer is still suffering without full email features. RIM shouldve just made this a hosted service and called it a day, since all other platforms do these things like Exchange out of the box with nothing extra needed. Its not a BIS replacement.


    As others have said, the iphone is as much of a business device as any other. Just because it does more or has good games doesn't mean its some toy, thats an idiotic analogy. It does every feature any other smartphone can do, sure it doesnt multitask 3rd party apps, but if that changes in 4.0 in a few months, whats left to bash? It does contacts, calendar, FULL email (html, Echange, Gmail, folders, contact/calendar sync, etc with NO extra fees or server BS), camera, video, documents. What else makes a "business" phone exactly? Sounds like a cop out answer by iphone haters.

    In fact it does some things much better than BB. Im not going to name them all because theyve already been discussed. But it comes down to preference, and hating on one or the other is kind of stupid in the end because theyre all good smartphones for different people.
    I'd just like to point out that BESX can be installed on the same server as Exchange is on, so for once RIM didn't shaft us on that. But, it still costs extra on top of what's already there and paid for in terms of Exchange/ActiveSync, so that'll always be a negative.

    I agree with everything else...
    03-01-10 08:56 PM
  6. stuaw11's Avatar
    I'd just like to point out that BESX can be installed on the same server as Exchange is on, so for once RIM didn't shaft us on that. But, it still costs extra on top of what's already there and paid for in terms of Exchange/ActiveSync, so that'll always be a negative.

    I agree with everything else...
    True but its still useless to 99.5% of us not on BES. Have to buy a separate PC with Sever Edition Windows, then run it 24/7, get a UPS for the PC and cable modem to continue to get email when the power goes out. Even then there's still hiccups in ISPs and other issues. Not worth it IMO for most of us.

    Pretty expensive and complicated to get some simple email that should be there from the start like every other smartphone platform out of the box. Cellular data network doesnt go down often nor does Gmail or personal Exchange accounts. Power, blizzard, etc still have full email.
    03-01-10 09:35 PM
  7. leilani_J's Avatar
    just another sign that iphone users feel THREATENED by RIM and blackberry.

    as they should.
    03-01-10 10:24 PM
  8. stuaw11's Avatar
    um ok, considering the iphone went from 0% marketshare 2.5 years ago to almost 30% of the US?



    Any questions?

    Since 2007 when the iphone went out, RIM 38, 38, 43, 42, 42, 42, 41, 41, 41, 40. Looks like a slow decline to me.

    The numbers dont lie, RIM is the only one on a, although slow, downward slope here between the two. The only one feeling threatened is the one slowly losing marketshare while Apple and Google keep gaining quarter after quarter.

    BB fanboys
    Last edited by stuaw11; 03-01-10 at 10:51 PM.
    03-01-10 10:39 PM
  9. qbnkelt's Avatar
    According to this chart, RIM went from a 30% market share to a 40% market share from June '08 to Sep '09. It spiked in Jan '07 (would be interesting to see what released then, I'm not inclined to spend that much of my day researching) and dipped in April '07. Still maintained a 3% lead from its beginning in June '06.

    RIM then recovered five points after flatlining around summer '07. Wasn't there THE iPhone launch then? Subsequent to that there was a gain of 5% immediately after summer. So the launch of the iPhone did not cause RIM to lose market share at that time, rather, it gained even after the launch of the highly anticipated iPhone. So the fact that even after the launch of a very highly anticipated device Apple did not damage RIM's core base simply shows that RIM's corporate core did not go en masse into Apple stores. From Jan '08 to Sep '09 it has only dipped 3%, in spite of two iPhone launches in summers '08 and '09. Which simply shows that RIM's hold on its core corporate market share remains intact. Consumer market share is, for RIM, secondary.

    Let's look at Apple. It went from nowhere in July '07 to 11% in June '08. Nice entry. By the end of that quarter, in Sep '08 after the launch of the next iPhone, it went to 17%. A gain of six points. Nicely done for one quarter, but take into consideration that the gain happened after a release. The holiday season brought an additional gain, independent of a release, of another six points. It then settled into 1% gains over the next three quarters. Hardly incendiary growth, just a slight gain. The next growth for Apple happens between June and September '09. Naturally, after another release.

    So, looking at those numbers, if RIM had dropped during that same time frame in the same numbers as Apple it would mean that RIM is losing market shares to Apple in numbers significant enough to take notice. As it is, Apple's incursion in the consumer phone market has not taken away RIM's core market share, rather the consumer who's looking for a nice smartphone.

    Regarding Apple's shares - Apple can only go up. It is a new company. Had it not done so, then it would have been a failure. The fact that Apple's marketshare flatlines during the times when there is either no holiday or no release shows that Apple's gains are 1) correlated to those releases 2) taking away 1% of RIM's market share. Or is it? Android released in September '08, and it also would have taken market share away from RIM.

    Should RIM continue to lose market share at that rate and not cater to the consumer market, it could find itself in trouble. For now, I don't see anything in the numbers shown that is not to be expected considering the market.

    Oh, considering the market. The market crashed last year, taking along with it gains in several markets. Yet RIM's loss, which is so closely tied to corporate market, was only 1% each quarter, after one corporation after another suffered heavy losses. Nicely done - showed that RIM can survive even a crash in its corporate core demographic.

    If I work at RIM I would begin development of more consumer/light corporate products and upgrades in the OS, and the browser, which are what it needs to do to appeal to the consumer market. And RIM is already doing that. But since RIM maintains its place even with the advent of new technologies like Palm Pre, Android and Apple and mangages to survive a crash in its corporate core market share, I would not be asking HR to start cutting pink slips yet.
    Last edited by Qbnkelt; 03-02-10 at 08:01 AM. Reason: misplaced comma
    03-02-10 07:59 AM
  10. darkmanx2g's Avatar
    According to this chart, RIM went from a 30% market share to a 40% market share from June '08 to Sep '09. It spiked in Jan '07 (would be interesting to see what released then, I'm not inclined to spend that much of my day researching) and dipped in April '07. Still maintained a 3% lead from its beginning in June '06.

    RIM then recovered five points after flatlining around summer '07. Wasn't there THE iPhone launch then? Subsequent to that there was a gain of 5% immediately after summer. So the launch of the iPhone did not cause RIM to lose market share at that time, rather, it gained even after the launch of the highly anticipated iPhone. So the fact that even after the launch of a very highly anticipated device Apple did not damage RIM's core base simply shows that RIM's corporate core did not go en masse into Apple stores. From Jan '08 to Sep '09 it has only dipped 3%, in spite of two iPhone launches in summers '08 and '09. Which simply shows that RIM's hold on its core corporate market share remains intact. Consumer market share is, for RIM, secondary.

    Let's look at Apple. It went from nowhere in July '07 to 11% in June '08. Nice entry. By the end of that quarter, in Sep '08 after the launch of the next iPhone, it went to 17%. A gain of six points. Nicely done for one quarter, but take into consideration that the gain happened after a release. The holiday season brought an additional gain, independent of a release, of another six points. It then settled into 1% gains over the next three quarters. Hardly incendiary growth, just a slight gain. The next growth for Apple happens between June and September '09. Naturally, after another release.

    So, looking at those numbers, if RIM had dropped during that same time frame in the same numbers as Apple it would mean that RIM is losing market shares to Apple in numbers significant enough to take notice. As it is, Apple's incursion in the consumer phone market has not taken away RIM's core market share, rather the consumer who's looking for a nice smartphone.

    Regarding Apple's shares - Apple can only go up. It is a new company. Had it not done so, then it would have been a failure. The fact that Apple's marketshare flatlines during the times when there is either no holiday or no release shows that Apple's gains are 1) correlated to those releases 2) taking away 1% of RIM's market share. Or is it? Android released in September '08, and it also would have taken market share away from RIM.

    Should RIM continue to lose market share at that rate and not cater to the consumer market, it could find itself in trouble. For now, I don't see anything in the numbers shown that is not to be expected considering the market.

    Oh, considering the market. The market crashed last year, taking along with it gains in several markets. Yet RIM's loss, which is so closely tied to corporate market, was only 1% each quarter, after one corporation after another suffered heavy losses. Nicely done - showed that RIM can survive even a crash in its corporate core demographic.

    If I work at RIM I would begin development of more consumer/light corporate products and upgrades in the OS, and the browser, which are what it needs to do to appeal to the consumer market. And RIM is already doing that. But since RIM maintains its place even with the advent of new technologies like Palm Pre, Android and Apple and mangages to survive a crash in its corporate core market share, I would not be asking HR to start cutting pink slips yet.
    Great analysis Qb!, totally agree with everything you said. Didn't really think about the corporations that went down under during the market crash yet RIM still showed great numbers. Like everyone and their mama saying RIM needs to overhaul the OS for the consumer market and the time is now before RIM loses the consumer confidence. WebOS is awesome but Palm doesn't have the consumer confidence to sell because of the Palm name.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-02-10 09:16 AM
  11. reeneebob's Avatar
    If you drop that thing in water it is a goner!
    I saw the latest iPhone commercial and it looks like it doing some multi tasking...but it was only a guy being put on hold and using the internet and pointless apps.
    "with my iPhone i enjoy being put on hold...I can surf the web, pay some bills, bla bla bla."
    My iPod Touch went into a puddle last year.

    Still works perfectly.

    Love that the first response is "thats a iPhone fanboy for ya!" LOL sneer sneer - on a BB fanboy forum.
    03-02-10 11:55 AM
  12. reeneebob's Avatar
    just another sign that iphone users feel THREATENED by RIM and blackberry.

    as they should.
    You're joking.

    Look, I still rock a Berry too, but the minute the 4G is out I'm done. Because RIM felt it was okay to use a stone age OS and browser for the last 4 years while others actually, you know, INNOVATED.

    OS 5 is an improvement, yes, but still too little too late.
    03-02-10 11:59 AM
  13. Masahiro's Avatar
    Look, I still rock a Berry too, but the minute the 4G is out I'm done. Because RIM felt it was okay to use a stone age OS and browser for the last 4 years while others actually, you know, INNOVATED.
    I don't know your definition of "innovation", but to me, innovation is making touchscreens actually useable for many people by utilizing piezo-electronics (SurePress). Touchscreen keyboards just don't do it for me, and so no matter how great all the new OS' and specs are for newer phones, I won't consider buying any of them without a keyboard or a suitable substitute. No, the Pre keyboard doesn't cut it, especially when compared to the bold.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-02-10 12:33 PM
  14. lovemythemes's Avatar
    Maybe the reason most people have the iPhone is cause of the cracked apps (when jailbroken). Lol
    Ohhh, & How cheap the damn thing is. Here on Guam it's like $99.
    Guam Broadband Internet - Digital TV - iPhone 3GS - GTA Teleguam
    Last edited by lovemythemes; 03-02-10 at 12:44 PM.
    03-02-10 12:39 PM
  15. christopherp's Avatar
    ...
    The 5.0 for my Bold is awesome.
    I'm not caught up in a rat race of 'newest, fastest, coolest to my friends' so the fact that I can run my business through what RIM offers is all I need.
    03-02-10 12:50 PM
  16. tech_head's Avatar
    I read the OP about pulling the bat.
    Hmm, you can't pull the battery on an iPhone. DOH!
    Also a true reset on an iPhone will have you waiting.

    Reset the iPhone by holding the sleep/wake button at the top right of the device and the home button at the bottom center of the face at the same time. Hold them both until you see the screen go black and the white Apple logo appear. When this happens, you can let go - the iPhone is rebooting. And count.
    03-02-10 12:53 PM
  17. djackson02's Avatar
    Tick tock tick tock
    03-02-10 01:03 PM
  18. Steve112's Avatar
    I read the OP about pulling the bat.
    Hmm, you can't pull the battery on an iPhone. DOH!
    Also a true reset on an iPhone will have you waiting.

    Reset the iPhone by holding the sleep/wake button at the top right of the device and the home button at the bottom center of the face at the same time. Hold them both until you see the screen go black and the white Apple logo appear. When this happens, you can let go - the iPhone is rebooting. And count.
    Although you may not need to pull the batt out, Ive literally hard reset my phone maybe twice since ive owned it. My berry, on the other hand, needs a pull every few days. A true reset is not too long, and you barely have to them.
    03-02-10 01:20 PM
  19. elvin1983's Avatar
    Just read this whole thread... wow.

    Bottom line, no phone, BlackBerry, iPhone, Palm, Android, should be required to be hacked to make it useable.
    Jailbreaking an iPhone, and loading a hybrid OS can't even be compared, because they're not even remotely similar.
    I've never owned an iPhone, I don't know what the steps are to jailbreak an iPhone and I don't particularly care, but I know what the effect of jailbreaking an iPhone is. I've heard this statement from a number of iPhone owners:
    "My iPhone is awesome since I jailbroke it!"
    Why isn't their iPhone awesome from the get go? Why must it be jailbroken to be awesome? That's the problem I have with jailbreaking and why I think it's absurd that people feel the need to do this.
    I didn't have to hack my BB to get threaded messaging, I had to load an operating system released by the manufacturer of my handset. This I find to be reasonable.
    I've never heard anyone with a BB say "I sure love my BB now that I hacked it so it can do this!", because it already comes with the ability to multitask, load 3rd party apps, change themes, backgrounds, etc, no need to jailbreak it, and no need to add a hybrid OS, nothing.

    I love the BB platform, I always have. I know the advantages the iPhone possesses, I also realize it's limitations, same with the BB. The BB is not a great multimedia phone, it can't compete with an iPhone on the multimedia level. Web browsing, youtube videos, etc, it just can't hang with the iPhone (or the Droid for that matter), but in the same respect, the iPhone just can't hang with the BB when it comes to the messaging side of the spectrum. Push service is not optional with your BB, and what the iPhone calls push, is not the same as the push BB offers. You can turn push on, on your iPhone, and then tell it to poll your inbox for new messages every XX amount of minutes... last time I checked that wasn't push, I'm just saying. My buddy's old Treo 800w could do that.
    I've never seen an ad where the iPhone advertised to be a great messaging device, and I've never seen a BB ad where they advertised to be great for web browsing and videos. In the end, you get the device that's going to work best for you. For me, it's a BlackBerry. Might not be that way for you, but that's the way it is for me.

    Your friend likes his iPhone, good for him. Reboot time is not a valid comparison for what makes a phone good for one individual as opposed to another.
    Last edited by elvin1983; 03-02-10 at 01:54 PM.
    03-02-10 01:51 PM
  20. RickyRoss10's Avatar
    I know when I need a new phone, my ONLY concern is "How fast does it turn on?"
    03-02-10 01:56 PM
  21. Pilot Prop's Avatar
    i would've laughed in my friends face, lol, there is absolutely NOTHING about the iPHONE tht would make me leave my BlackBerry.....
    03-02-10 02:19 PM
  22. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Weeeeellll....I wouldn't quite go that far....I used to love Motorola and Nokia before loving RIM. I go for the next thing that I find wonderful. And right now, what I find wonderful is RIM.

    I was, for about a week, *really* considering the 4G. But after reading some posts....well, let's just say that I'd rather not go there....I'll wait for the new webkit and if that doesn't rock my world I'll continue using the native browser, Opera Mini and Bolt. Really, the browser is the only thing that bugs me about my 9700.
    03-02-10 02:33 PM
  23. elvin1983's Avatar
    Really, the browser is the only thing that bugs me about my 9700.
    Agreed, and to be honest, I don't do much browsing to begin with, but the new browser will be nice.
    03-02-10 02:35 PM
  24. qbnkelt's Avatar
    You know, it varies for me. Sometimes I'm stuck at an airport and I don't want to deal with my notebook. It'd be nice if I could have a better browser with Flash. I'd dance salsa in the middle of the terminal....
    03-02-10 02:39 PM
  25. Masahiro's Avatar
    You know, it varies for me. Sometimes I'm stuck at an airport and I don't want to deal with my notebook. It'd be nice if I could have a better browser with Flash. I'd dance salsa in the middle of the terminal....
    Well, almost no mobile browsers use flash just yet. Opera mini is absolutely terrific on wifi (especially compared to edge), and the default browser is more than adequate for mobile sites.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-02-10 03:16 PM
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