[Dave Bourque]

Me too. It sounded nice in theory, and while BlackBerry got the quantity in order to play the numbers game, anyone who's spent anytime on the Apple App Store or Google Play will tell you the quality isn't quite there yet. I realize obviously that BB10 is a relatively new platform, but one does have to wonder what it would take for the big name and well known indie devs to bring their apps over to BB World natively.

Public and media perception is killing the app growth it should have...


Sent from my BB10 smartphone.

[Dave Bourque]

They don't care how the Facebook and Twitter apps works natively. Still sucks the actual versions. BlackBerry will die at the end of this year..so bad I'll have to sell my z10 if someone still interested here in Ny. I doubt it.

Posted via CB10

Are you nuts? BlackBerry isn't near death...

Sent from my BB10 smartphone.

[avt123]

I haven't sideloaded anything onto my device yet. I'll just pick up my Galaxy Nexus and run my Android apps if needed. I'm only trying to download native apps for BB10 on my Z10.

[brmiller1976]

Sideloading is MUCH too big of a pain in the you-know-what to impact app availability, since the average user won't do it.

What toasts my cookies is service providers who won't just port their Android app over. I mean, c'mon, making your customers do the work is ridiculous -- just upload the binary to BB and you get to boast about unlocking a new market opportunity with millions of new users. There literally is NO downside.

Yet they still resist the idea. Weirdness.

[travaz]

Sideloading is MUCH too big of a pain in the you-know-what to impact app availability, since the average user won't do it.

What toasts my cookies is service providers who won't just port their Android app over. I mean, c'mon, making your customers do the work is ridiculous -- just upload the binary to BB and you get to boast about unlocking a new market opportunity with millions of new users. There literally is NO downside.

Yet they still resist the idea. Weirdness.

I couldn't agree more. If a Deveoper doesnt want to make a native app at least port the Droid app over. The thing that frost my A$$ is big companies such as Chase Bank or ADT Security or many of the large corporations that want my Money but don't want to give me all the features they offer to other users who spend less than I might. Its a drop in the bucket for someone like Sony or Amazon. I can understand a small studio not being able to afford the time and resources to code the app. But if you are going to offer an app that leads to more business or retention of customers make it available to all 4 major platforms. I would love to know from any of the Developers in these forums if thay have ever heard or had pressure put on them not to develop for another platform.

[brmiller1976]

I have changed business relationships over less.

I usually inform the company whose services I am cancelling that I am cancelling due to a lack of support for my various products, and the resulting poor experience.

Trouble is, many people are stuck in inertia and unwilling to do the same.

[TiagoPD]

Instagram us for kids. Just be patient they can't do everything in one day please just wait I had the chance to get the iPhone 5 or S4 but i too chose the Z10.

Posted via CB10

[brmiller1976]

There's no reason you couldn't have Instagram, Chase, Citibank, etc. today, right now, except that the devs aren't bothering to upload their binaries.

[m1a1mg]

BBRY has to show developers actual numbers of user of BB10. Until then, why bother?

[BlackBerry Guy]

Public and media perception is killing the app growth it should have...


Sent from my BB10 smartphone.

It's a perception cuItivated by the old RIM unfortunately. It's a huge shadow for Thorsten Heins, Alec Saunders and others of the new BlackBerry to get away from.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

[BBrickk]

I have to agree with that, the RIM shadow still haunts the developers. Until then, one can only do so much on such forums by spreading positive attitude about how BlackBerry is nowadays and how it has changed, all that for the developers to see and notice, and eventually change the fault perception that they have.

Posted using Z10 via CB10 on the Fido network, Toronto.

[reeneebob]

Instagram us for kids. Just be patient they can't do everything in one day please just wait I had the chance to get the iPhone 5 or S4 but i too chose the Z10.

Posted via CB10

Guess I'm a 38 year old kid then.

I find that attitude to be...unhelpful.

Posted via CB10

[blackhawksfan75]

No they can't do everything in one day, but it has been over a year since BB10 was announced; in that time period we had 6+ months of BB Jams/port-a-thons, 5 months since launch of both Z/Q10 devices, and a whole lot of false hope.

[bigbmc26]

Sorry, but the "market share" argument isn't really true. If it was, Android would be far and away ahead of Apple, at 60% share versus Apple's 13% share.

Here's the reality.

Silicon Valley, where most apps are produced, is an Apple monoculture. It uses Apple phones, tablets and PCs, and doesn't know or care about anything else.

They develop for themselves, first -- then, if they have time, they release a half-baked port to Android. Other OSes don't even factor into their thinking.

It's really pathetic. Try going to Yelp's mobile site sometime -- it doesn't even work on BB10! This would require a very simple change to the string to serve up the mobile page, and, almost five months after BB10, STILL DOESN'T WORK.

Now, please, don't feed me a line of baloney about how there "aren't enough BB10 users" to justify putting a line of code in to recognize BB10 Browser and serve up the proper page.

It's just plain laziness in the Apple monoculture of modern tech development.

If you're looking to get "the latest and greatest apps" as defined by the Apple monoculture, save yourself the trouble and pick up an Apple device. BB is going to have to build and sustain an independent app culture that grows inside its own ecosystem -- the BEST you can hope for from the US app culture is being treated second-fiddle the way Android is, getting a laggy, crashy crappy port of an Apple app six months to a year after iOS has it.

Couldn't agree more. It really bothers me that the industry has moved this way. The "I don't care about anything but iOS" attitude needs to stop. Developers are clearly steering people towards iOS with the quality of the apps. All 4 platforms are sustainable of quality apps, only caring about apple is just plan wrong.

I get the small independent developers not having resources to build for all 4 from the beginning. But there is absolutely no excuse the facebooks, including instagram, cable providers, banks, and any other fortune 500 company not to have native apps for ALL platforms. The numbers game is just plan stupid for them. They have the resources and the talent to build them. The bias is clear and needs to change.

And for God's sake, please stop the continuing to blame BlackBerry. The old guard is gone. This team as built an easy platform to develop for and reached out to at least port an android app if not build native. The sole blame, now, as far as I'm concerned, is placed solely on the shoulders of app developer bias towards iOS. Not market share numbers, that's just an easy excuse to dodge the issue.

Take Google for example. Does anyone here really think they don't have the resources to build apps for BB10? I thought they wanted screens? As many as possible? They're in the business of ads aren't they? They'll bend over backwards to offer services for their direct competitor, just to get that screen time. But not for WP8 or BB10? Do they not want our screen time? Haha! I cannot be the only one that doesn't believe this BS. It's been said time and time again, until quality popular apps or on BB10 and WP8, people won't switch. I for one am not a huge app person. No facebook, twitter, instagram, etc. But they do need to be there so people don't have excuses for not switching. I'm also no crazy conspiracy theorists. I agree that BlackBerry got themselves in trouble, but they have reformed their company. I do however call out obvious bias when I see it...

Posted via CB10

[Judson50]

Couldn't agree more. It really bothers me that the industry has moved this way. The "I don't care about anything but iOS" attitude needs to stop. Developers are clearly steering people towards iOS with the quality of the apps. All 4 platforms are sustainable of quality apps, only caring about apple is just plan wrong.

I get the small independent developers not having resources to build for all 4 from the beginning. But there is absolutely no excuse the facebooks, including instagram, cable providers, banks, and any other fortune 500 company not to have native apps for ALL platforms. The numbers game is just plan stupid for them. They have the resources and the talent to build them. The bias is clear and needs to change.

And for God's sake, please stop the continuing to blame BlackBerry. The old guard is gone. This team as built an easy platform to develop for and reached out to at least port an android app if not build native. The sole blame, now, as far as I'm concerned, is placed solely on the shoulders of app developer bias towards iOS. Not market share numbers, that's just an easy excuse to dodge the issue.

Take Google for example. Does anyone here really think they don't have the resources to build apps for BB10? I thought they wanted screens? As many as possible? They're in the business of ads aren't they? They'll bend over backwards to offer services for their direct competitor, just to get that screen time. But not for WP8 or BB10? Do they not want our screen time? Haha! I cannot be the only one that doesn't believe this BS. It's been said time and time again, until quality popular apps or on BB10 and WP8, people won't switch. I for one am not a huge app person. No facebook, twitter, instagram, etc. But they do need to be there so people don't have excuses for not switching. I'm also no crazy conspiracy theorists. I agree that BlackBerry got themselves in trouble, but they have reformed their company. I do however call out obvious bias when I see it...

Posted via CB10

I haven't read all this thread but the thing that pops in my head is, where are the majority of people at that will generate revenue.

Sure globally there are a lot of BlackBerry users globally. But take this example, why are the majority o viruses built for PC's and not macs or UBuntu? Because there is more opportunity to strike and hit unsuspecting people in PC. It takes time, effort, money to build them for other platforms with "littler" return than you can get on a PC.

BlackBerry just happens to be that platform that doesn't have he same return as IOS.

[brmiller1976]

BBRY has to show developers actual numbers of user of BB10. Until then, why bother?

Because you're already talking millions of potential users with essentially zero additional effort -- uploading a binary to a server. One of your staff engineers could do it over lunch.

Refusing to do so is imbecilic, but frankly, a lot of app developers can be imbeciles (e.g. targeting iPhone first and not Android, and then saying "we develop where the users are.")

[brmiller1976]

BlackBerry just happens to be that platform that doesn't have he same return as IOS.

Most free apps generate money through advertising, and an impression is an impression. Others, like banking apps, make it easier for customers to stick with a particular financial institution.

Paid apps don't make millionaires out of most.

And frankly, a lot of the apps developed for BB are half-assed laughable trash (I am looking at you, Delta Air Lines). If you choose to develop something that's barely usable or feature-reduced, you cannot then turn around and complain that the average user of your awful, afterthought BB app "isn't as engaged and valuable" as the user of your well-thought-out, highly-designed iOS app.

There's also the question of being the early mover. Many app developers make more on Windows Phone (and presumably BB 10) than they do on iOS or Android, since they're one of two or three developers in a given app category competing for 40 million users (WP) or about 6 million users so far (BB 10)... versus being one of 100+ developers in a given app category competing for 110 million active users (iOS).

[Jerry A]

Because you're already talking millions of potential users with essentially zero additional effort -- uploading a binary to a server. One of your staff engineers could do it over lunch.

Refusing to do so is imbecilic, but frankly, a lot of app developers can be imbeciles (e.g. targeting iPhone first and not Android, and then saying "we develop where the users are.")

Except as we've seen from the various sideloading efforts it's not that easy. Some apps don't run properly (Instagram) some are slow (Flipboard) and may just plain don't work.

So, as an app developer, would you want to spend the money on recoding an app against an old API for a platform that won't be generating lots if revenue (forget about total number of users - it's about the number of users that actually pay for apps that counts).

Would you port an app and provide users with a crappy experience? Of course not, too much bad press and an increase in support costs.

Sadly, until we get to 4.2.2 and BlackBerry releases some numbers on app purchasing we won't get much traction. Even then it may not be enough.

[angieberry10]

Yup I agree op... before those Q5's get in the hands of the targeted younger crowd the apps need to be available or the Q5's will be returned.

Posted via CB10

[m1a1mg]

Because you're already talking millions of potential users with essentially zero additional effort -- uploading a binary to a server. One of your staff engineers could do it over lunch.

Refusing to do so is imbecilic, but frankly, a lot of app developers can be imbeciles (e.g. targeting iPhone first and not Android, and then saying "we develop where the users are.")

I think you must over simplify.

For example, I've found that Android is still missing some key apps for their tablet, CNN for Android tablet comes to mind Since there are a huge number of Android tablets that have been sold, why would it not make sense for those apps to be created. There must be a reason.

[DisturbedRocks31]

Hey, so what happened to Instagram? I remember hearing that it's coming, then a couple of week later, I heard it's coming.. and still after months, it's still not here...? Any updates?

[angieberry10]

I don't blame BlackBerry..i love BlackBerry. I am afraid of BlackBerry failing because of the app situation.

My intention even under current circumstances is to stay BlackBerry as long as I can get my hands on one!

Posted via CB10

[ubizmo]

The recent breakthrough in "debug sideloading" has me thinking about this question again. Previously, I couldn't sideload Audible onto my Z10; now I have it running perfectly. The Audible app is free, but it makes money by giving me a reason and a way to consume paid content from Audible. So Audible should be happy about this. I've written to them and sent screenshots, to make sure they know about it.

Granted, some apps present problems when ported, but many don't. The Audible case shows that the app could be generating revenue for Audible/Amazon with minimal development expense, just as the Kindle app (which is never updated) is now doing. So why is there a Kindle app in BB World, but no Audible app? It's hard to come up with plausible answers to this question.

One possibility is that the developers at Audible/Amazon just don't know how easy it is to get Audible running on BB10. I find this difficult to believe, but I guess it's possible.

Another possibility is that even though the initial port is simple and cheap, they are concerned about downstream support costs. BB10 is an unknown and immature platform, so they may be concerned about compatibility issues as the OS is updated. Maybe they don't want to inherit a lot of support tickets when BB10 is updated and apps don't work like they used to. Even if that's not likely to happen, if they think it is, it could deter them from porting an app.

Audible is just one case, of course, but there are plenty of others that could be cited. The only explanation I can come up with is the fear of a great increase in support issues going forward.

[brmiller1976]

Except as we've seen from the various sideloading efforts it's not that easy. Some apps don't run properly (Instagram) some are slow (Flipboard) and may just plain don't work.

Sideloading isn't uploading for inclusion on the BB market, which includes assistance (and security auditing) from BB staff. No doubt there are people at BB who would happily fix your Android binary to run on BB10 without a lot of difficulty.

The reason why the app developers don't do it is the same reason why Yelp still delivers the "full web page" rather than the mobile web page when you visit their website on BB10 -- sheer laziness.

It takes almost no effort to make it work, but the devs are lazy.