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10-09-13 12:58 PM
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  1. lawguyman's Avatar
    Most of you guys who are against this initial price are forgetting that Blackberry, like Apple, still wants to have at least ONE premium-tiered device. 5S, anyone ? Remember that the Z10 is getting "re-tiered" to a lower price point, also. Asking $700 off contract is not like they are asking $7000 or 7 million. It is barely, slightly higher than a more 'normally tiered' device. They believe they can sell at this price point, at least to start. Remember also that the price of any electronic device falls, rapidly actually. Within 3-6 months it might be drastically different. But if they start out low, there's really nowhere else to go for them.
    This is the right concept, also considering that *most* people buy a phone on a contract, for between 100-200 dollars plus the length of the contract. The off-contract price is for specialty buyers in most cases, aka, fans, "premium users", etc. I don't see how you guys can keep missing this.
    It seems to me that you keep missing that BlackBerry constantly over prices it's phones, can't sell them, and then is forced to write off the inventory.

    Can you honestly say that the z30 is the device that will break this cycle?

    Posted via CB10
    10-04-13 01:05 PM
  2. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    If Porsche was bleeding money, then yes they should stop manufacturing cars. BBRY is more like Hummer or Saab. Don't matter if you're premium or mid end. If you don't make money, get out of the business.



    EDIT: Also, BBRY does not make premium products but charges premium prices which is another major issue. Samsung uses polycarbonate and Gorilla Glass on its smartphones. What does BBRY use?
    Last edited by sentimentGX4; 10-04-13 at 01:30 PM.
    10-04-13 01:11 PM
  3. VaderZ10's Avatar
    If Porsche is losing a billion dollars a fiscal quarter, then my answer is YES

    Posted via CB10
    HTC just lost 3+ Billion last quarter, and they had what many believe was the device of the year last year.
    10-04-13 01:12 PM
  4. lawguyman's Avatar
    HTC just lost 3+ Billion last quarter, and they had what many believe was the device of the year last year.
    3 billion what? Not US Dollars

    HTC only lost about US $100 million.

    Not great but it was it's first quarterly loss.

    Posted via CB10
    10-04-13 01:15 PM
  5. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    HTC just lost 3+ Billion last quarter, and they had what many believe was the device of the year last year.
    Did you bother to fact check, or did you just pull a huge number out of a hat? 3+ Billion... Really?

    SwiftKeyed/Flowed via Tapatalk 4 Beta
    MERCDROID and SMocek like this.
    10-04-13 01:16 PM
  6. zlatno's Avatar
    The problem with your analogy is that right now, iPhone is the Porsche of smartphones. Sure they just came out with a nice little Boxster (the 5c) in various colours, but iPhone has also been the Top High-End smartphone.
    BlackBerry's reputation as a high-end brand has passed it by. BB10 was supposed to bring back some of the lustre to the Blackberry brand. I have the Z10 and I love it. But unfortunately, BB10 just isn't selling. I'm one of the few who thought that they should NOT have spent any $$$ on advertising until they had a few devices out. I would have much rather that they spent the money on:
    1) making sure ALL of the TOP APPs were coming quickly to BB10 (especially InstaGram).
    2) making sure that the carriers (and salesforce) would give BB10s a chance. I go into a Telus and the SalesLady asks me if she can help me. I say, Yes, I would like to buy a Q10. She says: Great, let me show you the NEW Galaxy S4...
    3) paying someone (anyone) from the media to say ANYTHING positive about BlackBerry.

    BTW, Porsche is not dependant on third party apps to be successful. If Blackberry went by your plan of becoming High-End Exclusive, they wouldn't sell many phones. Without many devices out there, which Top APP would come to BB10?

    SideNote: The only way I let go of my Z10, it's to jump on a Z30...
    10-04-13 01:16 PM
  7. sexybabe88's Avatar
    A phone in that league would be vertu. And you think their margins are as low as blackberry's?
    10-04-13 01:17 PM
  8. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    Did you bother to fact check, or did you just pull a huge number out of a hat? 3+ Billion... Really?

    SwiftKeyed/Flowed via Tapatalk 4 Beta
    It's in Taiwanese dollars. Fans are using the number without stating Taiwanese dollars to grossly exaggerate the decline of HTC. Apparently, it's only like ~150 million USD.
    richardat likes this.
    10-04-13 01:18 PM
  9. njblackberry's Avatar
    I am picking up my 2014 Boxster tomorrow.
    I am looking at a powered off Q10. No idea where the Z10 is.

    One delivers on what it promises, and the other doesn't. I won't consider a Z30, no matter how nice it will look in the Porsche.

    No comparison.
    10-04-13 01:19 PM
  10. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Should Porsche stop making cars because the majority are buying Chevys???
    I honestly don't understand how premises such this one make it to the surface. Come on...
    10-04-13 01:19 PM
  11. u4ria's Avatar
    Most of you guys who are against this initial price are forgetting that Blackberry, like Apple, still wants to have at least ONE premium-tiered device. 5S, anyone ? Remember that the Z10 is getting "re-tiered" to a lower price point, also. Asking $700 off contract is not like they are asking $7000 or 7 million. It is barely, slightly higher than a more 'normally tiered' device. They believe they can sell at this price point, at least to start. Remember also that the price of any electronic device falls, rapidly actually. Within 3-6 months it might be drastically different. But if they start out low, there's really nowhere else to go for them.
    This is the right concept, also considering that *most* people buy a phone on a contract, for between 100-200 dollars plus the length of the contract. The off-contract price is for specialty buyers in most cases, aka, fans, "premium users", etc. I don't see how you guys can keep missing this.

    Who is considering the Z30 to be premium? It seems to me that only BlackBerry is delusional enough to constantly think that their new "flagship" device is a premium device. Step back and remove yourself from the CrackBerry world. Let's put ourselves in the shoes of the average consumer out there that is in the market for a new Premium phone.

    They're given the choices of:

    - iPhone
    - Android (basically Samsung at the moment)
    - Windows
    - BlackBerry

    Now, they see tv and internet ads. They're shown all these neat gimmicks and tricks that can be done with said phone. Then they're hearing about all these apps that can do this and that. Armed with all that, what do you think they'll do? Have you seen the BlackBerry advertising? If you have, you'd be left scratching your head and asking "what the hell was the point of that commercial??" .

    Next thing, you're in a store and you see all these phones lined up. First thing that comes to your mind is "oh, those are the phones I saw/read/heard about". You go play with them and then you look at the price. It's close to what that Z30 costs, but you have no clue as to what that Z30 can do, nor do you have the slightest clue as to what BlackBerry is. You may ask a sales associate about it, but they'll tell you to avoid it like the plague. Other customers chime in and tell you that BlackBerry phones are slow, freeze up all the time and the awesome frequent battery pull feature they come with. After hearing that, you think to yourself "who the hell would want that crap??". So they leave the store after buying an iPhone or Android device. They go home and to them it's like they just bought the greatest thing ever. "OMG, the apps!!! It can do this, it can do that...like OMG!!"

    So, do you see the big picture on what's going on outside of the CrackBerry world? Pricing it at $700 and considering it a premium device is a joke. It's like telling people you have a face for radio.
    10-04-13 01:21 PM
  12. u4ria's Avatar
    DUDE!! uncool. You leave the Pony out of this. What did that poor little Pony ever do to you???
    1st car I ever learned the basics of driving a manual transmission. Bare bones, no power steering, no power anything in that car. It was such a beater, but boy did those things rust. Hyundai were totally unprepared for the Canadian winters. The Pony did so much damage to the Hyundai brand that they basically closed shop in Canada.
    10-04-13 01:26 PM
  13. SK122387's Avatar
    Smartphones can't be considered "premium" unless they have a premium ECOSYSTEM. They rely on third-parties to make apps, and those third-parties won't make apps unless the phone OS has significant marketshare, a situation that cars DO NOT SHARE in any way. Also, customers expect there to be tablets and other accessories available running the same OS, and able to run the same apps. BB doesn't have those; everyone else does.
    \
    Clearly you've never heard of the wholly Nokia owned subsidiary, Vertu.

    The people who buy those phones probably couldn't care less about apps (though Vertu does now offer a device running Android). They buy them because they're exclusive and made of high end materials, the same way the Porsche Design BlackBerrys are. No one buys these devices to play games and use apps. They buy them for the design, fit, finish, and air of exclusivity.

    These devices are NOT for the average consumer. The owners of these devices probably own another device for the app ecosystem, and are buying a Vertu device or a Porsche Design BlackBerry because they want a high end device for its looks, as well as its functionality.

    Obviously BlackBerry can't flip a switch and become a Vertu-esque company making everything out of black diamonds and sapphire, but the idea that "a device can't be considered premium unless they have a premium ecosystem" is 100% wrong.
    10-04-13 01:31 PM
  14. gitchies's Avatar
    There are many flaws in your comparison. Let's list a few of them:

    1. Porsche is the world's most profitable car maker in the world. They earned an average $22,000 USD per car sold. BlackBerry comes nowhere close to making that kind of money per handheld sold.

    2. Porsche revolutionized the industry several times. First with the 911, then then 911 Turbo, then the Panamera, and now with the 918. What's the last BlackBerry device that revolutionized the mobile industry and set every other competitor on notice?

    3. Porsche listens to its customers and gives them what they want. You want different paint colours? Sure, you can have that. Look at the exhaustive list of options that are available on a Porsche. BlackBerry users want customizable notifications. What does BlackBerry do? They take that option away! Users want lower/more competitive prices for non premium devices. What does BlackBerry do? Ignore that and charges $700 for a Z30!

    4. Porsches are high performance, typically top of the line sports cars. You cannot say the same for BlackBerry phones compared to iPhone and Android devices in terms of specs, performance, and app selection.

    5. There is a huge demand for Porsche vehicles. They can't make enough of them to satisfy the demand.

    6. Most importantly, perception. Porsche is perceived as a high performance, luxury brand. They have the goods to back it up, along with the pricing to go with it. BlackBerry has none of this, and the public perception of them is almost like that of the Hyundai Pony back in the mid 80s!
    Well said!
    10-04-13 01:41 PM
  15. gogurt48's Avatar
    I think of cars when I think of the analogue presented here:

    Attachment 207662


    Troy has summarized well where this is a silly frame of reference so no point anyone else repeating themselves.
    I don't know about the car, that if I were in the market for a yellow pole, I would sure want that one.
    10-04-13 01:44 PM
  16. ubizmo's Avatar
    I agree that BlackBerry's current device offerings are not "high performance machines". What I am saying is that I believe this is the direction BlackBerry should consider going. They are capable of it.
    I think this is fair enough as an ideal for BlackBerry, but the resistance was triggered by your "accurate analogy" claim, which implies that the two products are somehow analogous now. They're not, as 20 or so people have already pointed out, but that doesn't mean BlackBerry couldn't aspire to something like this, if they can find the time and resources to do so. There are reasons to be skeptical.

    The Porsche analogy entails that at every level, BlackBerry devices emphasize quality over budget constraints. Make it the best (or among the best) simply for the sake of being the best, to appeal to that small segment of the population that demands the best. That means the best materials, the best specs, and an ecosystem that includes the "best" apps and services and shuns the crapola: the best mapping, the best office suite, and so on. I'm not exactly sure what this would look like but I'm willing to pretend I do.

    From where BlackBerry currently is, this looks like a pretty steep hill to climb. Porsche was bought by Volkswagen, who continued to support the brand for what it was. So the first step for BlackBerry would be a buyer who is committed to keeping the BlackBerry brand going, as an exclusive upscale niche offering.

    Maybe Volkswagen will step up?
    10-04-13 01:46 PM
  17. minimac1's Avatar
    This has to be worst comparison I've ever read in my life.

    Porche caters to a niche market. This is what BlackBerry should have done 2 years ago. Too late now and no, this is not an apple situation. BlackBerry has nothing to offer and it takes nothing short of a miracle to make a product "revolutionary" in the sense that the average consumer sees it as a viable contender against the other phone big rigs.

    Posted via CB10
    10-04-13 01:53 PM
  18. Scott Lindsey's Avatar
    Ok, kinda missing the point. Blackberry has already stopped making phones. Jabil Circuit has quit them.

    We are faced with a strong possibility of disengaging with BlackBerry, Mondello said. Our team has worked diligently over the past few days to comprehend the recently announced changes. Were in discussions right now on how were going to wind down the relationship.

    BlackBerry Manufacturing Partner Jabil Circuit Looking to Bail - John Paczkowski - Mobile - AllThingsD

    So what you mean to ask is, can (or should) Blackberry find a new partner to build phones for them? Jabil bailed because Blackberry's volume was not large enough to defray fixed costs. It's just not possible to produce a phone in small quantities in the sense that one can create a car in relatively small quantities.

    Economies of scale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    And by the way, Porshe is now owned by Volkswagon..
    richardat likes this.
    10-04-13 02:07 PM
  19. hkkelvinlee's Avatar
    I reckon Porsche are desirable to the majority yet affordable only to minority. Is BlackBerry?

    Posted via CB10
    10-04-13 02:08 PM
  20. cgk's Avatar
    Clearly you've never heard of the wholly Nokia owned subsidiary, Vertu.

    The people who buy those phones probably couldn't care less about apps (though Vertu does now offer a device running Android).
    Vertu was sold off, although Nokia remain a stake. I think going forward they will only make android devices because... Customers want the ecosystem.

    Sent from my XT890 using Tapatalk 4
    10-04-13 02:09 PM
  21. gogurt48's Avatar
    If I want to purchase music I do not want to be tied to iTunes on my phone. I can navigate to many sites on my BlackBerry and purchase/download music straight to my device. Glorious no DRM, free range music! And I can transfer that song to my other devices with ease. Apple has handcuffed it's users to some extent, and although they have loosened the shackles in recent time there are many people still bound to their media collections that can't easily migrate from Apple.
    Actually, that's no longer true. All of Apple's music is sold without DRM. What's more, if you use iTunes Match, it will scan your computer's media library to see what songs you have. If it finds a song that matches one that is available from iTunes (which most of your songs probably are), it considers you to own that song. What that means is that you now have free access to Apple's high-quality 256kbps AAC, DRM-free version of that song, even if your original version was some low-quality crap you stole off a torrent a few years back.

    In other words, even if your whole library is low-quality stolen music, iTunes Match will automatically upgrade it to legitimate, high-quality, DRM-free music, no questions asked.
    VaderZ10 and richardat like this.
    10-04-13 02:18 PM
  22. JasW's Avatar
    Also, if Porsche came out with a new 911 with a 70 hp 1.2 liter engine that does 0-60 in 15 seconds, I don't think you'd hear "Porsche drivers don't care about specs."
    10-04-13 02:21 PM
  23. Jim Wolfson's Avatar
    Fitting that we have Porsche designed models of BlackBerrys!
    Well, many people aspire to afford and own a Porsche someday.

    Non-owners are afraid to buy a BlackBerry, given the uncertainties and app gaps.

    So, I'd say the analogy doesn't hold.
    10-04-13 03:15 PM
  24. Henraay0623's Avatar
    Cars don't have carriers.
    10-04-13 03:26 PM
  25. amazinglygraceless's Avatar
    Cars don't have carriers.
    Oh really

    Should Porsche stop making cars because the majority are buying Chevys???-smartcarhauler.jpg

    Sorry, couldn't resist
    10-04-13 04:22 PM
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