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10-09-13 12:58 PM
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  1. VaderZ10's Avatar
    There is more than enough room in the smartphone market for many brands and premium devices. My feeling is that BlackBerry is now like a premium car, like a Porsche. Fitting that we have Porsche designed models of BlackBerrys!

    We don't need every family to own one. They need to find their market and stick to it. I don't want the Chevy Cavalier of phones (iPhone). I want to stand out, be different, be premium. Keep the prices up, make great products, target Enterprise, target "Prosumers", make me work to get my device, like I do to get my nice vehicle.

    I have a sense of pride being a BlackBerry guy! and in the same way that I don't want to pull into the parking lot at the mall and see half the lot filled with the exact same car I drive, I don't want everyone to have the best mobile device in the world, BLACKBERRY.

    I say downscale and make the brand more premium, make higher end devices and price them accordingly. I WANT to pay more if I get a better experience. The problem is that we live in a society where everyone wants their inexpensive or free vehicle to drive and handle like my "Porsche".....or.......they think they should get to own a "Porsche" for the price of their Kia. That "Kia" comes in more colours and has more whistles and bells and useless crap than the pure driving machines, if that's what you're into.

    That's my analogy and I think it's accurate!
    10-04-13 10:26 AM
  2. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Cars are not phones. All cars share the same "ecosystem" (the road network), so no car has any advantage over another ecosystem-wise. And even the biggest car companies (GM and Toyota) only have 10% or less of the market.

    Porsche is a premium product that is produced by order at a premium price. They have a business model that has proven to be successful.

    Smartphones can't be considered "premium" unless they have a premium ECOSYSTEM. They rely on third-parties to make apps, and those third-parties won't make apps unless the phone OS has significant marketshare, a situation that cars DO NOT SHARE in any way. Also, customers expect there to be tablets and other accessories available running the same OS, and able to run the same apps. BB doesn't have those; everyone else does.

    BB isn't competing in the auto market, or in the featurephone market. They're in the SMARTPHONE market, and that market comes with a HUGE number of facets that all have to be in place in order to succeed when you have an independent OS/ecosystem, and BB fails in almost every category in this market. Remember, BB *chose* this path, and then spent 5 years failing to execute at every single turn. That will kill ANY company; they're lucky to have survived this long, given their long string of mistakes and failures to execute their own plans.
    10-04-13 10:43 AM
  3. Wiki Cydia's Avatar
    There is more than enough room in the smartphone market for many brands and premium devices. My feeling is that BlackBerry is now like a premium car, like a Porsche. Fitting that we have Porsche designed models of BlackBerrys!

    We don't need every family to own one. They need to find their market and stick to it. I don't want the Chevy Cavalier of phones (iPhone). I want to stand out, be different, be premium. Keep the prices up, make great products, target Enterprise, target "Prosumers", make me work to get my device, like I do to get my nice vehicle.

    I have a sense of pride being a BlackBerry guy! and in the same way that I don't want to pull into the parking lot at the mall and see half the lot filled with the exact same car I drive, I don't want everyone to have the best mobile device in the world, BLACKBERRY.

    I say downscale and make the brand more premium, make higher end devices and price them accordingly. I WANT to pay more if I get a better experience. The problem is that we live in a society where everyone wants their inexpensive or free vehicle to drive and handle like my "Porsche".....or.......they think they should get to own a "Porsche" for the price of their Kia. That "Kia" comes in more colours and has more whistles and bells and useless crap than the pure driving machines, if that's what you're into.

    That's my analogy and I think it's accurate!
    It depends on how you define "accurate," since. . .

    Porsche doesn't have to worry about developer interest in its platform.

    Porsche isn't losing money.

    Porsche isn't writing down inventory.

    Porsche isn't for sale.
    10-04-13 10:56 AM
  4. Hilman76's Avatar
    Newsflash, the Z10 and Z30's are far from being a Porsche. Maybe a Chevy Cobalt but without the massive sales lol.
    10-04-13 10:57 AM
  5. VaderZ10's Avatar
    My point is that the need for a consumer "ecosystem" for their brand is really necessary. Apple has sold us the concept of ecosystem when in reality it is more like a cage, a prison. A consumer in Apple's ecosystem is much like pet in a cage or aquarium, you can throw in some fake rocks and a shelter and call it an "ecosystem" but that fish can't go for a swim in the pond outside.

    Apple and Google have brainwashed people into believing that they need Apps. Apps do not make a an OS. I am perfectly happy with my Z10 and it's selection of Apps. In fact I really only use what came pre-installed. I don't have the need for these supposed missing Apps and I don't see a lack of ecosystem. Just like a real performance car doesn't need AC, rain sensing wipers, or a heads up display, they are useless whistles and bells, IMO.
    10-04-13 10:58 AM
  6. Wiki Cydia's Avatar
    I am perfectly happy with my Z10 and it's selection of Apps. In fact I really only use what came pre-installed. I don't have the need for these supposed missing Apps and I don't see a lack of ecosystem. Just like a real performance car doesn't need AC, rain sensing wipers, or a heads up display, they are useless whistles and bells, IMO.
    You can have your opinion, but the facts suggest that BB10 isn't competing well. So while your opinion is likely shared by millions of people, there aren't enough supporters to keep BBRY in a competitive position, which is why the company is selling itself for $9 a share.
    litig8or98, kevinnugent and Etios like this.
    10-04-13 11:02 AM
  7. VaderZ10's Avatar
    My point is that BlackBerry should focus on the premium. They have made premium devices in the past and I think trying to cater to the masses is a mistake right now. Go Enterprise, go high end. Whether you use the luxury car analogy, the high end home stereo industry, or whatever product you want that has a premium tier. Smartphones don't have a true "premium" tier, which I think BlackBerry should go after. Quality over quantity.
    Corbu and der_mit like this.
    10-04-13 11:03 AM
  8. paper_monkey's Avatar
    My point is that the need for a consumer "ecosystem" for their brand is really necessary. Apple has sold us the concept of ecosystem when in reality it is more like a cage, a prison. A consumer in Apple's ecosystem is much like pet in a cage or aquarium, you can throw in some fake rocks and a shelter and call it an "ecosystem" but that fish can't go for a swim in the pond outside.

    Apple and Google have brainwashed people into believing that they need Apps. Apps do not make a an OS. I am perfectly happy with my Z10 and it's selection of Apps. In fact I really only use what came pre-installed. I don't have the need for these supposed missing Apps and I don't see a lack of ecosystem. Just like a real performance car doesn't need AC, rain sensing wipers, or a heads up display, they are useless whistles and bells, IMO.
    Is your signature a warning for people to not enter into a battle of wits with you..?

    Your analogy is so far removed from what is happening...
    Donvald, Berry_Pink, Etios and 1 others like this.
    10-04-13 11:03 AM
  9. heymaggie's Avatar
    Do those Porsche's only run on special fuel that you can't get at a regular gas station? Do you have to refine it yourself in your garage or send letters to Valero begging them to support your car? If so then I would recommend you buy a car that runs on the gas that everyone else uses because you will be able to do a hell of a lot more with the Chevy like take a trip or something.

    I guess we have cars like that - electric ones. To each his own.
    10-04-13 11:06 AM
  10. VaderZ10's Avatar
    You can have your opinion, but the facts suggest that BB10 isn't competing well. So while your opinion is likely shared by millions of people, there aren't enough supporters to keep BBRY in a competitive position, which is why the company is selling itself for $9 a share.
    People refer to the companies stock performance as a sole determining factor of whether it's a good product, or if people like it. You need to be able to separate BlackBerry from BBRY. A company's performance on the stock market often has little to do with their quality of product. The stock market has too many people trying to sway opinion to make them money, not a fair representation at all.
    der_mit likes this.
    10-04-13 11:07 AM
  11. lawguyman's Avatar
    If you have spent any time actually using phones in other ecosystems you will see that your analogy does not hold up.

    Performance cars have more powerful engines and optimized suspensions. BlackBerry phones tend to have older slower processors and lower resolution displays.

    An OS is not everything. I like bb10 over iOS and Android but there are other things to think about. Yes. Apps are included in that equation too.

    Posted via CB10
    richardat and Terser Nori like this.
    10-04-13 11:07 AM
  12. Diplomatic77's Avatar
    The demand for porsche is inelastic which is why they are profitable at premium pricing. You can't compare BB to that....
    KatKatKatina likes this.
    10-04-13 11:09 AM
  13. heymaggie's Avatar
    A company's performance on the stock market often has little to do with their quality of product.
    Blackberry has a lot more problems than the stock price. The stock price is simply reflects the real problems. I'm pretty sure Rogers didn't care what the stock price was. They didn't like the Z30 for some reason.
    10-04-13 11:10 AM
  14. VaderZ10's Avatar
    Is your signature a warning for people to not enter into a battle of wits with you..?

    Your analogy is so far removed from what is happening...
    How so paper_monkey?

    What is happening is that the masses are buying in to what is popular, often with little regard for quality or personal needs and with little or no independent research.

    In Apple's ecosystem you need to purchase content from Apple solely and it is very difficult to take this content (media, etc.) away from their prison of an ecosystem.

    My signature speaks to my personality and my sarcastic nature. But I will gladly battle if a battle is called for.......just don't bring a knife to a gun fight
    Last edited by VaderZ10; 10-04-13 at 11:12 AM. Reason: update
    der_mit likes this.
    10-04-13 11:10 AM
  15. VaderZ10's Avatar
    If you have spent any time actually using phones in other ecosystems you will see that your analogy does not hold up.

    Performance cars have more powerful engines and optimized suspensions. BlackBerry phones tend to have older slower processors and lower resolution displays.

    An OS is not everything. I like bb10 over iOS and Android but there are other things to think about. Yes. Apps are included in that equation too.

    Posted via CB10
    I agree that BlackBerry's current device offerings are not "high performance machines". What I am saying is that I believe this is the direction BlackBerry should consider going. They are capable of it.

    and.... I have used, abused, destroyed and analyzed most devices out there in my profession. I am speaking from a position of experience not simply a casual consumer or BB fanboy. I have first hand experience.
    anon8091350 likes this.
    10-04-13 11:14 AM
  16. sjmartin007's Avatar
    I like the thought. I say once bb10 OS is a major improvement over OS 7.

    Posted from the most powerful smartphone,z10
    10-04-13 11:15 AM
  17. Cylon69's Avatar
    I agree with you, BlackBerry was totally prosumer based to start with and will be good to see it return to that, people that want to look professional will start buying them when they see professional people using them
    10-04-13 11:19 AM
  18. scribacco's Avatar
    There is more than enough room in the smartphone market for many brands and premium devices. My feeling is that BlackBerry is now like a premium car, like a Porsche. Fitting that we have Porsche designed models of BlackBerrys!

    We don't need every family to own one. They need to find their market and stick to it. I don't want the Chevy Cavalier of phones (iPhone). I want to stand out, be different, be premium. Keep the prices up, make great products, target Enterprise, target "Prosumers", make me work to get my device, like I do to get my nice vehicle.

    I have a sense of pride being a BlackBerry guy! and in the same way that I don't want to pull into the parking lot at the mall and see half the lot filled with the exact same car I drive, I don't want everyone to have the best mobile device in the world, BLACKBERRY.

    I say downscale and make the brand more premium, make higher end devices and price them accordingly. I WANT to pay more if I get a better experience. The problem is that we live in a society where everyone wants their inexpensive or free vehicle to drive and handle like my "Porsche".....or.......they think they should get to own a "Porsche" for the price of their Kia. That "Kia" comes in more colours and has more whistles and bells and useless crap than the pure driving machines, if that's what you're into.

    That's my analogy and I think it's accurate!
    Iphones are premium phones since their pricing is among highest (see unlocked price)..Blackberrys are not premium. Porsche and Apple do not give discounts or offer deals or cut price in half after few month like Blackberry
    SMocek, cwalt2166 and barnfoot like this.
    10-04-13 11:24 AM
  19. VaderZ10's Avatar
    My whole point is that BlackBerry does not need to cater to the masses to be successful. Too many things today in society cater to the lowest common denominator. Our public schools won't allow failure and the brightest students are held back by a curriculum or classes that are dictated by the least adept. Our society celebrates mediocrity. SMH
    10-04-13 11:25 AM
  20. VaderZ10's Avatar
    Iphones are premium phones since their pricing is among highest (see unlocked price)..Blackberrys are not premium. Porsche and Apple do not give discounts or offer deals like Blackberry
    This "rant" of mine is more of a vision for where I want to see BlackBerry go, not a reflection of reality or current situations.
    10-04-13 11:27 AM
  21. cgk's Avatar
    I think of cars when I think of the analogue presented here:

    Should Porsche stop making cars because the majority are buying Chevys???-car-crash.jpg


    Troy has summarized well where this is a silly frame of reference so no point anyone else repeating themselves.
    richardat and cwalt2166 like this.
    10-04-13 11:28 AM
  22. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    What is happening is that the masses are buying in to what is popular, often with little regard for quality or personal needs and with little or no independent research.
    Your problem is that you think that YOU and a few others buying BBs are SMART, and that the 98+% of consumers who are buying something else are too STUIPID to know any better. You also think that YOUR needs and usage patterns and priorities are the ONLY ones that are important for EVERYONE. You are so myopic and self-centered that you simply can't understand why the company you love so much is about to exit the business.

    Meanwhile, all of those "stupid" people are laughing at your expense and enjoying the entertainment you're providing them.

    You'll find that when you think EVERYONE ELSE is stupid, but YOU keep getting it wrong again and again, it might just be YOU who is the stupid one. I'm just saying...
    10-04-13 11:28 AM
  23. c_legaspi's Avatar
    So for a premium blackberry phone, how much do you think you would be willing to pay.

    How much do you think blackberry will have to charge to keep in the premium phone business.

    Posted via CB10
    10-04-13 11:30 AM
  24. paper_monkey's Avatar
    How so paper_monkey?

    What is happening is that the masses are buying in to what is popular, often with little regard for quality or personal needs and with little or no independent research.

    In Apple's ecosystem you need to purchase content from Apple solely and it is very difficult to take this content (media, etc.) away from their prison of an ecosystem.

    My signature speaks to my personality and my sarcastic nature. But I will gladly battle if a battle is called for.......just don't bring a knife to a gun fight
    your analogy compares BBRY to Porsche (which, if memory serves is owned by Volkswagen) SO even if we compartmentalize and deal with Porsche on on it's own, are you talking about the commercial vehicle sales or the motorsport aspect? In either case, the car is part of a larger enviroment that encompases cars by other manufacturers.. They all require a power source for their engine and a road to drive on. The difference with cell phones (smartphones in particular) is that they require an ecosystem (to use the most prevalent term) to function in which is driven by their OS but is populated by apps. All cars play by the same rules in the same general sandbox.. You may not want or need apps but the fact of the matter is that you are in the minority. The public 'needs' their apps (i'm not getting into the difference between wanting and needing..) so without the apps, the public will not buy the devices which will not entice the developers to develop the apps which results in less users (insert cyclical pattern here) which results in a company with no sales, no money and limited life span. And don't confuse yourself, every ecosystem is built differently and they are all closed systems. Getting your information or data out of the BBRY ecosystem isn't that much different of a process than getting the info out of Apples sandbox or samsungs. To try and strain and make your analogy fit.. go grab the transmission from your kia and drop it into your Porsche then let us all know how it works out.

    The profit margins are razer thin in the mobile device market and the companies that do best are the ones that can write down their losses and/or missed opportunities against the revanues from their other sectors. Cars and phones are nothing alike, the industries are nothing alike and if BBRY wanted to get into the luxury handset business then they should have been a software company with little to no overhead, partnered up with the folks at Porsche design and provide a custom GUI for a customized cell phone to the 'elite' market. They can't continue to produce handsets at premium prices and continue as a company. The fell asleep at the wheel years ago when upper management was trying to get a hockey team in Hamilton instead of figuring out what was happening in the market space they created.
    bhrgvr and chr1sny like this.
    10-04-13 11:32 AM
  25. donnation's Avatar
    The problem with your thinking is that they price themselves as a Premium model now and no one is buying them.
    10-04-13 11:41 AM
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