[PineappleUnderTheSea]

With all the doom and gloom, I've been wondering: would it do RIM some good to put Android on some lower end phones? That way the "consumer" market gets its beloved apps, and the higher-end phones could keep BB10, but be aimed at businesses?

It seems that implementing Android isn't all that tough, so putting it on a couple of phones shouldn't break the bank, that way RIM can keep getting some volume sales.

Or maybe I'm on crack...

[alexandros2011]

ummmm..... no

[Mystic205]

have you missed the last 24hrs?.. lol

[glamrlama]

I would agree with you PUTS. You are on crack!

[LeSteven]

The only thing I can see if that happened, is Android fanboys saying Blackberry is getting desperate, and the Crackberry forums exploding about why on earth would RIM do that. I think the market for an Android on a BlackBerry isn't that large and wouldn't be worth it. Especially with the stupid media these days.

[Tre Lawrence]

Though I don't like the idea, I bet you RIM has given it some thought.

[lewis71980]

Maybe.....should Android / iOS use Blackberry for messaging as an app
Since QNX is based around a secure microkernel. Could all the BB10 be run from a secure virtual app space on an iOS / android device.
Used to be able to get BES support for the Sony Ericsson P800 / P990i


Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk

[kbz1960]

What is the obsession with android on here. It isn't the greatest thing there is. I don't care how many apps they have.

[llllBULLSEYE]

Besides a great selection of Apps and huge touchscreens there is nothing else I like about Android devices.

[addicted44]

What is the obsession with android on here. It isn't the greatest thing there is. I don't care how many apps they have.

1) It is better than QNX. This is absolutely a fact right now because Android is actually shipping on phones (and has been for several years) while QNX isn't.
2) It will likely be better than QNX for a while. Once QNX is released, it is unlikely to match up to Android in terms of combination of features, stability and quality. This is because Android has had a long time to fix a bunch of bugs and issues which RIM hasn't.
3) Android has apps. QNX doesn't. Android will be getting apps at a faster rate Than QNX even after it is released.
4) Adopting Android allows RIM to let Google build the plumbing and get it for almost free, instead of wasting engineering resources on kernel level stuff. This allows RIM to focus on their strengths, ie. BBM, corporate integration, security, and best in class keyboard for those who want a keyboard model. This allows RIM a quicker path to market and allows them far greater flexibility.

As I mentioned in another post. If you could go out right now and buy a Blackberry running Android (so all Android apps, instead of a limited buggy selection thru android player) which has much greater security than stock Android, integrates well with corporate networks and has profiles, but also has BBM and other BB specific features, who would be selling more phones? RIM or Samsung?

I am pretty sure that under such a scenario BB would be the #2 selling smartphone after the iPhone (if not #1 itself).

[southlander]

Just taking an android device and slapping a blackberry badge on it does not make it a blackberry.
What makes a blackberry a bb other than the OS is the services. BBM. PINs. Etc. So since RIM has not to this very day been able to implement bbm and their push email and services natively on their own new qnx os, I can not see how they could easily do it on android.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9850 using Tapatalk

[trsbbs]

With all the doom and gloom, I've been wondering: would it do RIM some good to put Android on some lower end phones? That way the "consumer" market gets its beloved apps, and the higher-end phones could keep BB10, but be aimed at businesses?

It seems that implementing Android isn't all that tough, so putting it on a couple of phones shouldn't break the bank, that way RIM can keep getting some volume sales.

Or maybe I'm on crack...

No and yes you are crack..



Tim

[addicted44]

Just taking an android device and slapping a blackberry badge on it does not make it a blackberry.
What makes a blackberry a bb other than the OS is the services. BBM. PINs. Etc. So since RIM has not to this very day been able to implement bbm and their push email and services natively on their own new qnx os, I can not see how they could easily do it on android.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9850 using Tapatalk

It would almost certainly be easier. They have had to repurpose and build QNX from scratch for phones, right from the Kernel level.

With Android all this is done for them. BBM and Pin support can (and should) be application level services. RIM would only need to spend engineering resources on getting these application level services working as opposed to getting an entire smartphone OS working (building drivers for interacting with varying HW, building smart energy usage profiles, building touch recognition, etc...)

[southlander]

1) It is better than QNX. This is absolutely a fact right now because Android is actually shipping on phones (and has been for several years) while QNX isn't.

2) It will likely be better than QNX for a while. Once QNX is released, it is unlikely to match up to Android in terms of combination of features, stability and quality. This is because Android has had a long time to fix a bunch of bugs and issues which RIM hasn't.

3) Android has apps. QNX doesn't. Android will be getting apps at a faster rate Than QNX even after it is released.

4) Adopting Android allows RIM to let Google build the plumbing and get it for almost free, instead of wasting engineering resources on kernel level stuff. This allows RIM to focus on their strengths, ie. BBM, corporate integration, security, and best in class keyboard for those who want a keyboard model. This allows RIM a quicker path to market and allows them far greater flexibility.



As I mentioned in another post. If you could go out right now and buy a Blackberry running Android (so all Android apps, instead of a limited buggy selection thru android player) which has much greater security than stock Android, integrates well with corporate networks and has profiles, but also has BBM and other BB specific features, who would be selling more phones? RIM or Samsung?



I am pretty sure that under such a scenario BB would be the #2 selling smartphone after the iPhone (if not #1 itself).

Android's been around a while now. In fact the very first moto droid was released in 2009 I think. Didn't RIM just buy QNX in 2010?

RIM has loads of very smart engineers that surely would have taken the free and open source Android Os back then and evaluated it for use on their devices.

Don't you trust that they rationally determined there were good reasons qnx was a better for for them?

Sent from my BlackBerry 9850 using Tapatalk

[kbz1960]

1) It is better than QNX. This is absolutely a fact right now because Android is actually shipping on phones (and has been for several years) while QNX isn't.
2) It will likely be better than QNX for a while. Once QNX is released, it is unlikely to match up to Android in terms of combination of features, stability and quality. This is because Android has had a long time to fix a bunch of bugs and issues which RIM hasn't.
3) Android has apps. QNX doesn't. Android will be getting apps at a faster rate Than QNX even after it is released.
4) Adopting Android allows RIM to let Google build the plumbing and get it for almost free, instead of wasting engineering resources on kernel level stuff. This allows RIM to focus on their strengths, ie. BBM, corporate integration, security, and best in class keyboard for those who want a keyboard model. This allows RIM a quicker path to market and allows them far greater flexibility.

As I mentioned in another post. If you could go out right now and buy a Blackberry running Android (so all Android apps, instead of a limited buggy selection thru android player) which has much greater security than stock Android, integrates well with corporate networks and has profiles, but also has BBM and other BB specific features, who would be selling more phones? RIM or Samsung?

I am pretty sure that under such a scenario BB would be the #2 selling smartphone after the iPhone (if not #1 itself).

You have your opinion and I have mine. I would rather see win8 than anything else if it isn't going to be bb10. I do not like android. Maybe version 20 of I might change my mind.

[southlander]

RIM would only need to spend engineering resources on getting these application level services working as opposed to getting an entire smartphone OS working (building drivers for interacting with varying HW, building smart energy usage profiles, building touch recognition, etc...)

And along with the prebuilt drivers comes all the bugs. Like the one where android devices coming out of sleep mode cannot at times reliably tell when a dhcp lease has expired and the device's ip address has been passed to another device. The android device fails to reconnect until wifi is turned off and on again.

(a major university posted a case study detailing their various issues with android devices causing issues on the campus wifi. Google blamed the Broadcom drivers.)

Sent from my BlackBerry 9850 using Tapatalk

[addicted44]

Don't you trust that they rationally determined there were good reasons qnx was a better for for them?

Sent from my BlackBerry 9850 using Tapatalk

In one word? No.

I don't deny that RIM has extremely smart engineers. But if smart engineering was enough, then RIM would not have waited till 2010 to even start responding to iOS/Android (by acquiring QNX). If it was enough, they wouldn't have wasted time and resources on Playbook instead of focussing completely on getting BB10 out.

The reality is that most decisions in most companies are driven from the top. And RIM was until very recently being run by people with massive egos living in a fantasy land which did not allow them to perceive the changing reality around them.

Unlike most, I came feeling better for RIM after the earnings report than before because for the 1st time management did not sound delusional. And as Thorstein said, RIM cannot do everything and is better of partnering for some things while they focus on their strengths. Building the plumbing of an operating system is not one of their strengths, and more importantly, is hardly going to help them sell more phones in the market. They are best off partnering with Google (or even MS) and using the stable and market tested OS'es they already have while focussing their resources on what makes a BB a BB.

And we haven't even talked about the extreme difficulties of building an app ecosystem yet when there are already 3 established players (something which RIM has already acknowledged with the android player).

[addicted44]

And along with the prebuilt drivers comes all the bugs. Like the one where android devices coming out of sleep mode cannot at times reliably tell when a dhcp lease has expired and the device's ip address has been passed to another device. The android device fails to reconnect until wifi is turned off and on again.

(a major university posted a case study detailing their various issues with android devices causing issues on the campus wifi. Google blamed the Broadcom drivers.)

Sent from my BlackBerry 9850 using Tapatalk

And if software which has been on the market for 3 years and is built by one pf the best SW companies ever has bugs, how many bugs do you think brand new SW will have?

[BergerKing]

Android's been around a while now. In fact the very first moto droid was released in 2009 I think. Didn't RIM just buy QNX in 2010?

RIM has loads of very smart engineers that surely would have taken the free and open source Android Os back then and evaluated it for use on their devices.

Don't you trust that they rationally determined there were good reasons qnx was a better for for them?

Sent from my BlackBerry 9850 using Tapatalk

First Android was the HTC Dream/G1 in the latter half of 08, right before I got my first 8330 Curve.

[kbz1960]

In one word? No.

I don't deny that RIM has extremely smart engineers. But if smart engineering was enough, then RIM would not have waited till 2010 to even start responding to iOS/Android (by acquiring QNX). If it was enough, they wouldn't have wasted time and resources on Playbook instead of focussing completely on getting BB10 out.

The reality is that most decisions in most companies are driven from the top. And RIM was until very recently being run by people with massive egos living in a fantasy land which did not allow them to perceive the changing reality around them.

Unlike most, I came feeling better for RIM after the earnings report than before because for the 1st time management did not sound delusional. And as Thorstein said, RIM cannot do everything and is better of partnering for some things while they focus on their strengths. Building the plumbing of an operating system is not one of their strengths, and more importantly, is hardly going to help them sell more phones in the market. They are best off partnering with Google (or even MS) and using the stable and market tested OS'es they already have while focussing their resources on what makes a BB a BB.

And we haven't even talked about the extreme difficulties of building an app ecosystem yet when there are already 3 established players (something which RIM has already acknowledged with the android player).

You don't know the PB is the catalyst to OS 10 and the phones?

[addicted44]

You have your opinion and I have mine. I would rather see win8 than anything else if it isn't going to be bb10. I do not like android. Maybe version 20 of I might change my mind.

I don't like Android either. Which is why I don't use it.

However, in the real world, RIM is bleeding, and continues wasting resources on things which will not help them increase revenues a bit (viz the Kernel of a phone), when instead they could take a tried and tested Kernel and app platform for free and build a blackberry user experience on it.

Look at how quickly Barnes and Noble, and Amazon, companies with little to no device experience were able to build tablets over Android. Imagine how much better RIM with its cadre of engineering talent could do.

[kbz1960]

I don't like Android either. Which is why I don't use it.

However, in the real world, RIM is bleeding, and continues wasting resources on things which will not help them increase revenues a bit (viz the Kernel of a phone), when instead they could take a tried and tested Kernel and app platform for free and build a blackberry user experience on it.

Look at how quickly Barnes and Noble, and Amazon, companies with little to no device experience were able to build tablets over Android. Imagine how much better RIM with its cadre of engineering talent could do.

Perhaps but they would have to change it a lot for me.

[addicted44]

You don't know the PB is the catalyst to OS 10 and the phones?

That is true now, but is actually ignoring history. PB was supposed to be successful in its own right, which is why RIM drew resources from BBX to build PB OS. They thought BB7 devices would compete with iOS/Android just fine for a few years and so were worried about the iPad.

However, if RIM had never attempted the PB, it is almost certain that BB10 would already be out by now.

Btw, it would have been far easier for RIM to build BB10 for phones and then expand that to PB than what they are doing. The simple reason is that the tablet because of its size can contain far better HW and so the SW doesn't need to be as polished. Trying to repurpose tablet SW for phones will be a far more difficult task.

[addicted44]

Perhaps but they would have to change it a lot for me.

Of course. But Android being open source (and furthermore Linux based) makes this very easy. Much easier than building a new OS altogether (and we haven't even discussed all the effort needed for building the tools to build the OS, like developer APIs, IDEs, etc).

[kbz1960]

That is true now, but is actually ignoring history. PB was supposed to be successful in its own right, which is why RIM drew resources from BBX to build PB OS. They thought BB7 devices would compete with iOS/Android just fine for a few years and so were worried about the iPad.

However, if RIM had never attempted the PB, it is almost certain that BB10 would already be out by now.

Btw, it would have been far easier for RIM to build BB10 for phones and then expand that to PB than what they are doing. The simple reason is that the tablet because of its size can contain far better HW and so the SW doesn't need to be as polished. Trying to repurpose tablet SW for phones will be a far more difficult task.

I don't know if it's more difficult to start on a tab and move to a phone. Maybe they were wrong to think the current phones would still sell well. But at this point there would still be no bb10 phones and the current ones still not selling and probably further behind in development. But I'm no programmer.