[fragment137]

I thought I'd pose a question because I couldn't find a set discussion about this... Someone please point me to one if I missed it!

We all know that BlackBerry is still in an uphill battle in the cellular market. It stands to reason that there may be more than one way for them to really push the brand and come out in the Top 3 where they belong.

There's two examples that are really working in the market right now. On the one hand, Apple: Software and hardware manufactured by the company. The advantages are pretty obvious. It's made one way, which means there's only one way for the software to interact with the phone... This minimizes software compatibility issues. Apple can get away with this because they are already so big. The problem with this model is that it puts you in to competition with Software AND hardware manufacturers.

The other example is Google. They own the Android operating system but primarily contract out hardware manufacturers to make devices compatible with the OS. This puts them on a different playing field, as they compete in the software and services market, not really in Hardware. Their recent acquisition of Motorola points towards a similar system as Apple but you would still see other manufacturers making phones for Android, making Motorola more of a "Speciality" android phone.

Personally I think BlackBerry would do better with the latter system. I do not mean to say the BlackBerry hardware is not competitive. More-so I believe that BlackBerry may find they're taking off more than they can chew competing with both Software and Hardware manufacturers in one go. They might find it easier to focus on refining and perfecting the BB10 platform if they contracted a Hardware company (Nokia, for example) for R&D and building hardware that can take full advantage of the platform. This could also help reduce costs of handsets and make BlackBerry far more competitive in that market.

The reason I mention Nokia specifically is that they could help BBRY make a BB10 phone in the $150-$300 range with minimal impact on performance. (Example: Rogers Nokia 520)

I'm curious what the rest of the community thinks? Thanks for reading!

[Chicago777Guy]

Yes they should but only on the low end if they can get partners to do so.
Low end of the market is only meant for device only low cost producers. They are the only ones who can make money.

Posted via CB10

[BBORAPPL]

They have such an excellent and productive software that they should completely rely on developing it to the next level
rather than having a supply chain / supply quality team who has done such an inferior job and compromised on the quality - let's beging with PCB itself.

Why does a PCB gets so hot? For non technical people software is amazing and I have heard so many of them getting drenched with the WOW factor but when it comes to hardware; LOL;
even the novicest person knows that a hot PCB quality / hardware quality is not supporting this such a beautiful and productive software.

BB should get new faces in this team if they want to move forward; seems like these people are just enjoying their travel and appeasements more than they worry about the product or the company.

FANBOYS love this company more then these people who have supplied such a cheap hardware.

Rather than sacking those 250 testers focus on these people who are supplying low quality hardware in the first place.

[app_Developer]

I don't think BBRY really has the software talent to compete effectively with Google. You only have to spend one day at a BBJam to see that they are playing checkers while Google and Apple software engineers are playing chess.

Now, over time, hopefully they can grow and accumulate that top tier talent. It was not a big focus apparently in the past. That's why I think a better strategy is the one they are pursuing for now, which is an integrated one.

[QuickDime]

No!

Package deal, anyone saying they should just do software doesn't have a clue!

Why would any device maker take BB10 over Android????

If BlackBerry is to survive they need to do it on their own!

Just my ten cents!

Swiped On My Zed10

[ajst222]

No!

Package deal, anyone saying they should just do software doesn't have a clue!

Why would any device maker take BB10 over Android????

If BlackBerry is to survive they need to do it on their own!

Just my ten cents!

Swiped On My Zed10

Because there are countless Android hardware manufacturers out there with Samsung being the dominant one. HTC is finding it hard to compete. If a manufacturer would partner up with BlackBerry using BB10, they would find themselves the only one. BlackBerry is holding themselves back with their hardware. The Z10 and Q10 were only on par with other smartphones on the market when released and the A10 will be a joke. I am not saying that BlackBerry should necessarily stop making hardware, but I see some motivating points. If BlackBerry would actually release hardware that could compete, then I don't think they should stop making it. But they seem to have a problem doing so.

[unlocked4u]

I think they had this in mind from the beginning when OS 10 was in development. If Z10 was a success it's all good otherwise restructure company and sell it to company who can benefit from having their own OS. I can think of Samsung.

Sent from my SGH-I717R using CB Forums mobile app

[m1kr0]

IMO a package deal is the only way for them to survive.

[lorax1284]

Google makes money off advertising... and one way that they get ads in front eyeballs is via Android.

Unless BlackBerry becomes an online advertising BEHEMOTH there is no business model for BB10 to be a software-only company.

BB is heading down the track with the Apple business model... maybe actually more like Microsoft, but they still need to own the hardware / software ecosystem, even if one day they do license BB10 to other hardware manufacturers, like Microsoft does... but Microsoft is also learning that if you rely on third party hardware manufacturers, a slight breeze will shift their focus and you'll lose pride of place with them.

Microsoft will be manufacturing more of their own hardware in the coming years, especially related to Windows Phone: when Windows platform is unified where one app will run on all devices, you might even see branded PCs with special hardware that links to tablets and handhelds, making them one single computer with three interfaces, shunting processes between them etc.

BlackBerry / QNX has this innate capability, but they would have to at least develop the first few versions of this 'platform' before third parties would invest in the hardware development.

Sorry, but I think at least for the foreseeable future, BlackBerry discontinuing to sell branded BlackBerry hardware would not be practical. So... watch them go and announce that tomorrow. I'm so sad.

[pillswoj]

OP mentions the Nokia 520 but fails to realize that the 520 only works because WP8 is an efficient OS that will run well on 512MB and slower processor. BB screwed the efficiency of QNX by putting a bloated and poorly coded layer over it BB10.

[app_Developer]

Google makes money off advertising... and one way that they get ads in front eyeballs is via Android.

Thanks for the reminder. This is more important than the staffing, talent, and technical issues. GOOG has a completely different business model than BBRY, making it difficult for BB10 to compete with Android as an independent OS.

Of course, there is the issue of patent payments to MSFT from Android, but I don't think those are significant enough to make a difference in the long run. MSFT could potentially attack BB10 in the same way if they saw BB10 as a competitor.

[fragment137]

OP mentions the Nokia 520 but fails to realize that the 520 only works because WP8 is an efficient OS that will run well on 512MB and slower processor. BB screwed the efficiency of QNX by putting a bloated and poorly coded layer over it BB10.

You make a good point -- the 520 is a VERY smooth operating phone but that's mostly because the software is made to run on it.

I think BB10/QNX has great potential to run on slimmed down hardware. That's the reason why I mentioned it as an advantage.

-------------

I disagree that BBRY selling BB10 is a good idea... I still think it needs to be BB10. I do however see advantage in them licensing it's use to other companies much the same way Google does.

I really do want to see BBRY successful as a competitor in this business. I'm kind of tired of seeing the same 2(and a half maybe[WP]) phones everywhere.

[pillswoj]

You make a good point -- the 520 is a VERY smooth operating phone but that's mostly because the software is made to run on it.

I think BB10/QNX has great potential to run on slimmed down hardware. That's the reason why I mentioned it as an advantage.

-------------

I disagree that BBRY selling BB10 is a good idea... I still think it needs to be BB10. I do however see advantage in them licensing it's use to other companies much the same way Google does.

I really do want to see BBRY successful as a competitor in this business. I'm kind of tired of seeing the same 2(and a half maybe[WP]) phones everywhere.

But that is BB's problem, they could not "slim down" BB10 to run on a 1GB Ram Playbook. They have basically said that the 2 GB Q5 is the minimum spec that BB10 will run on.

[beantownwindsorite]

That decision might be made for them after a couple or so more quarters

Posted from BlackBerry Z10

[hootyhoo]

I think the comparison to windows is a bad one.

Microsoft has to pay Nokia to use it.

[jweihrauch]

BlackBerry hardware is the only reason I use BB. I love the keyboard and form factor of my bolds and now My Q. If I was promised the same keyboard, I wouldn't mind.

Posted with my amazingly awesome Q10 via AT&T

[app_Developer]

I think BB10/QNX has great potential to run on slimmed down hardware.

That may be true of the kernel itself (although I think even that is really debatable on modern ARM processors), but what is true for the kernel (QNX) is not necessarily true at all for the whole OS (BB10).

The kernel is just a tiny part of this.

[rodan01]

The problem is not the hardware, the problem is BB10.

[fearmantis]

Lol funny.

BB Z10 rocks.

[antheauxny]

I personally would love to see a BB10 device in an HTC One body...lol.

I don't think Blackberry will ever let other companies take over the hardware aspect though.

[Troy Tiscareno]

This has been gone over before in other threads. Here are a couple of problems with this idea:

• BB10 doesn't have users clamoring to get it today, on higher-end hardware. Why would anyone want it on low-end hardware? An OEM licensing BB10 (and paying for it) would need to know that there was demand for it, but BB10 is confusing to most people especially in the "store test", and its app and content ecosystem is lacking in a big way, especially in the countries where these OEMs are likely to sell. Huge risk and cost and little outlook of reward for an OEM compared to choosing Android, which already has a robust ecosystem in place and costs nothing to license.
• BB also risks these same OEMs making upper-level devices at much lower prices, diverting sales and profits from BB's own phones, something that BB simply can't afford right now.
• BB isn't a "software" company, meaning the company's DNA isn't about software development, and certainly not large-scale cloud services. Even Apple struggles in this area, for the same reason, and Apple's cloud services that support iOS are still pretty limited, even though Apple could throw effectively unlimited amounts of money at the problem (and they've spent $5-6+ billion on data centers alone in the last couple of years). If BB wants to compete in that arena, they are facing a challenge of similar difficulty to the one they're already in as a phone manufacturer.

QNX isn't going to save BB. QNX makes a whole $40M in yearly revenue, and even if 80% of that is profit, that's a drop in the bucket for BB.

BIS isn't going to save BB, as BB is bleeding lots of users every month, with a net loss of 4M users last quarter.

BES7 isn't going to save BB, as revenues from it are falling like crazy due to BYOD and the move away from BBOS.

BES10 isn't going to save BB unless BB10 starts selling very well, because the only people who are going to use BES10 over a competing product are companies that deploy BB10 phones. To date, that's only been a relatively small number of companies.

BBM isn't going to save BB. There is already far too much competition in the messaging space, all with large user bases, cross-platform support, and lots of features, with one or more services suited to its primary marketplace. Facebook messenger has 500+M users, and is cross-platform, including desktop. iMessage has 3-400M users, and is tightly integrated into iOS and is super-simple to use. Google Hangouts is on 400+M phones, is cross-platform (incl. desktop), and includes free multi-user video chat with YouTube integration. Skype has 200M users with video chat, is cross-platform, and has good Windows integration. Whatsapp and Wechat have huge numbers for text chat in countries with limited data resources (where video chat isn't yet likely to be feasible). And all of these services are effectively free, and TODAY have dozens or hundreds of people's friends actively using them. BBM's very late cross-platform release into this space isn't likely to cause too much fuss, especially when people see that few of their friends are using it. If it had been released 4 years ago, BBM could be a premier cross-platform messaging service, but it wasn't. Finally, BBM's cross-platform release might well result in a mass defection away from BB phones for die-hard BBM fans who have stayed with BB because of BBM, though honestly I think that today that's a fairly small number of users.

BB bet the company on the success of BB10 phones. They went all-in, and if they lose this hand, they will be out of the game. And so far, their hand of cards isn't looking too good.

[GadgetTravel]

As someone mentioned above I also bought my Q10 for the hardware, not the software. I wouldn't touch a BlackBerry without a keyboard and I would have decided sooner to buy a Q10 if it were running Jellybean for instance.

Posted via CB10

[Araslan]

pointless mentioning nokia. they are dedicated to wp8

perhaps sony?

Sent from my BlackBerry 9700 using Tapatalk

[Chicago777Guy]

This has been gone over before in other threads. Here are a couple of problems with this idea:

• BB10 doesn't have users clamoring to get it today, on higher-end hardware. Why would anyone want it on low-end hardware? An OEM licensing BB10 (and paying for it) would need to know that there was demand for it, but BB10 is confusing to most people especially in the "store test", and its app and content ecosystem is lacking in a big way, especially in the countries where these OEMs are likely to sell. Huge risk and cost and little outlook of reward for an OEM compared to choosing Android, which already has a robust ecosystem in place and costs nothing to license.
• BB also risks these same OEMs making upper-level devices at much lower prices, diverting sales and profits from BB's own phones, something that BB simply can't afford right now.
• BB isn't a "software" company, meaning the company's DNA isn't about software development, and certainly not large-scale cloud services. Even Apple struggles in this area, for the same reason, and Apple's cloud services that support iOS are still pretty limited, even though Apple could throw effectively unlimited amounts of money at the problem (and they've spent $5-6+ billion on data centers alone in the last couple of years). If BB wants to compete in that arena, they are facing a challenge of similar difficulty to the one they're already in as a phone manufacturer.

QNX isn't going to save BB. QNX makes a whole $40M in yearly revenue, and even if 80% of that is profit, that's a drop in the bucket for BB.

BIS isn't going to save BB, as BB is bleeding lots of users every month, with a net loss of 4M users last quarter.

BES7 isn't going to save BB, as revenues from it are falling like crazy due to BYOD and the move away from BBOS.

BES10 isn't going to save BB unless BB10 starts selling very well, because the only people who are going to use BES10 over a competing product are companies that deploy BB10 phones. To date, that's only been a relatively small number of companies.

BBM isn't going to save BB. There is already far too much competition in the messaging space, all with large user bases, cross-platform support, and lots of features, with one or more services suited to its primary marketplace. Facebook messenger has 500+M users, and is cross-platform, including desktop. iMessage has 3-400M users, and is tightly integrated into iOS and is super-simple to use. Google Hangouts is on 400+M phones, is cross-platform (incl. desktop), and includes free multi-user video chat with YouTube integration. Skype has 200M users with video chat, is cross-platform, and has good Windows integration. Whatsapp and Wechat have huge numbers for text chat in countries with limited data resources (where video chat isn't yet likely to be feasible). And all of these services are effectively free, and TODAY have dozens or hundreds of people's friends actively using them. BBM's very late cross-platform release into this space isn't likely to cause too much fuss, especially when people see that few of their friends are using it. If it had been released 4 years ago, BBM could be a premier cross-platform messaging service, but it wasn't. Finally, BBM's cross-platform release might well result in a mass defection away from BB phones for die-hard BBM fans who have stayed with BB because of BBM, though honestly I think that today that's a fairly small number of users.

BB bet the company on the success of BB10 phones. They went all-in, and if they lose this hand, they will be out of the game. And so far, their hand of cards isn't looking too good.

Looks like a fan boy analysis in reverse
Not saying you are completely wrong but you are swinging the pendulum way past.

Posted via CB10

[QuickDime]

Blah blah blah blah * a million more words............

BB bet the company on the success of BB10 phones. They went all-in, and if they lose this hand, they will be out of the game. And so far, their hand of cards isn't looking too good.

Dude go get laid or something, you have regurgitating the same rant for weeks! Broken Record Troy.....

Swiped On My Zed10