[Tsepz_GP]

It's been a steady trend line for 8 years, so I wouldn't expect much change. Apple is behind the eight ball, and its business model is imploding.

Lol, imploding? 66% of Mobile profits up from 65% in the previous year. I’d love to implode like this

https://www.counterpointresearch.com...-profit-share/



When it comes down to actual money, they are doing the exact opposite of “imploding”.

Lower priced devices will quickly erode their traditional high margins. I give them 5 years.

Lol, this is an argument we’ve been hearing since the day the iPhone arrived

I am going to save this and we will relook at it in 5 years.

[anon(10622733)]

Lol, imploding? 66% of Mobile profits up from 65% in the previous year. I’d love to implode like this

https://www.counterpointresearch.com...-profit-share/

[IMG=1242x2688]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200118/29d5c39b04b752c7285efecb23a71e27.png[/url]

When it comes down to actual money, they are doing the exact opposite of “imploding”.

But don't you realize that it's you that it is paying....

[Tsepz_GP]

But don't you realize that it's you that it is paying....

As long as they keep this brilliant ecosystem going I will keep paying.

In all my years of being a tech lover I have never had such a cohesive and consistent experience.

I come from Symbian and Android, used both for many years, heck at some point I owned a Galaxy S3 and Galaxy Tab10.1, never did I get the experience I have when using my iPhone, iPad, MacBook Air and Apple Watch, where every thing talks to each other so seamlessly. It’s disgustingly good.

Microsoft were on the cusp of this sort of ecosystem with W10, Windows 10 Mobile and Continuum but they just lacked developer support on mobile. Would have been great to have another ecosystem bringing the same sort of experience from a competitor.

[anon(10622733)]

As long as they keep this brilliant ecosystem going I will keep paying.

In all my years of being a tech lover I have never had such a cohesive and consistent experience.

I come from Symbian and Android, used both for many years, heck at some point I owned a Galaxy S3 and Galaxy Tab10.1, never did I get the experience I have when using my iPhone, iPad, MacBook Air and Apple Watch, where every thing talks to each other so seamlessly. It’s disgustingly good.

Microsoft were on the cusp of this sort of ecosystem with W10, Windows 10 Mobile and Continuum but they just lacked developer support on mobile. Would have been great to have another ecosystem bringing the same sort of experience from a competitor.

Can't argue with a satisfied customer. Carry on!

[Gene Fells]

WRT WiFi triangulation, part of this is part of Indoor navigation accuracy as far as I know, either way I am pretty strict on the location settings

Unfortunately, settings within the OS will not prevent the WiFi triangulation from tracking your every move. It's operated / controlled by the hardware and firmware.

If apple did not want this tracking to occur, they would need to modify the HD design and firmware. Considering apple controls the HD, firmware and OS, it would appear the privacy concerns of tracking of your every move is secondary to the data generated and collected.

[Tsepz_GP]

Unfortunately, settings within the OS will not prevent the WiFi triangulation from tracking your every move. It's operated / controlled by the hardware and firmware.

If apple did not want this tracking to occur, they would need to modify the HD design and firmware. Considering apple controls the HD, firmware and OS, it would appear the privacy concerns of tracking of your every move is secondary to the data generated and collected.

I believe the option to turn this off exists in iOS 13


Unless you are talking about something completely different? But this was a huge thing in the iOS 13 update.

[chain13]

Unfortunately, settings within the OS will not prevent the WiFi triangulation from tracking your every move. It's operated / controlled by the hardware and firmware.

If apple did not want this tracking to occur, they would need to modify the HD design and firmware. Considering apple controls the HD, firmware and OS, it would appear the privacy concerns of tracking of your every move is secondary to the data generated and collected.

It only works be when the wifi in iphone is on (wether is connected to a network or not). There is a reason why wifi has off button.

[Gene Fells]

It only works be when the wifi in iphone is on (wether is connected to a network or not). There is a reason why wifi has off button.

True, if the user turns off the WiFi within the settings menu. What percentage of users will do this? For a connected user that is heavily reliant on phone, tablet, watch sharing etc the WiFi would be on more than off and therefore rather pointless.

[Tsepz_GP]

True, if the user turns off the WiFi within the settings menu. What percentage of users will do this? For a connected user that is heavily reliant on phone, tablet, watch sharing etc the WiFi would be on more than off and therefore rather pointless.

You are able to turn off WiFi Location though in Settings, this is the same thing they addressed in iOS 13, AFAIK. There is an option for Networking and Wireless Location access, they also did this for Bluetooth, you can control who has access to this.

[Chuck Finley69]

Look, if in 2020 someone wants to deliver a bomb to your house via a drone they will do it. I'll sleep well tonight.

Are you visiting Florida?

[chain13]

True, if the user turns off the WiFi within the settings menu. What percentage of users will do this? For a connected user that is heavily reliant on phone, tablet, watch sharing etc the WiFi would be on more than off and therefore rather pointless.

Second, not all access point could provide/support wifi apple triangulation for iphone. Apple did the same thing back then with iphone 3G and mobileme. They used mobileme mini tower networks to triangulate location and improved the gps result, and it only worked within mobileme networks. It's not like you're getting tracked once you turn on your wifi, there are more verifying layers before that to happen.

[conite]

Lol, imploding? 66% of Mobile profits up from 65% in the previous year. I’d love to implode like this


When it comes down to actual money, they are doing the exact opposite of “imploding”.



Lol, this is an argument we’ve been hearing since the day the iPhone arrived

I am going to save this and we will relook at it in 5 years.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stephen...-on-apple/amp/

"Apple, on the other hand, has made its fortunes through hitting grand slams on a couple of big ideas. For the last twelve years, most of Apple’s growth has come from its last big idea: the iPhone.

For much of that time, the iPhone has made up roughly two-thirds of Apple’s sales.

Problem is, the iPhone trend is out of gas. As I explained recently, iPhone sales have been shrinking since 2015. Last year, Apple sold 14 million fewer phones than it did three years ago.

For years, Apple masked this troubling decline by hiking iPhone prices. For years, it worked. Even though iPhone unit sales were falling, iPhone revenue kept growing.

But now revenue is plunging, too. Revenue dropped 12% last quarter—the third straight quarter of falling iPhone sales."

[bh7171]

You can use these on iPhone as well, although you’ll be doing so on Android with an OS built by a company who’s main MO is mine data and sell it for ad revenue, it’s not just about web browsing tracking but tracking in general. Apples push to privatize user data has been so well that it has affected marketers significantly, Android could never match this. I guess we are ignoring all the other pros of iPhone ownership then? If OP wants to keep their phone longer than 2 years, with an iPhone he could have it up to 5-6 years and still get OS and Security Updates.

Heck even the older iPhones like iPhone 5S from 2013 get updates, they were recently updated to iOS 12.4.4

http://osxdaily.com/2019/12/11/ios-1...date-download/

Are we able to name a single Android phone from 2013 that has received an update in 2019?


You quoted me twice, what’s up with that?

No idea, is then an article?

Regarding the 11 Pro the FBI unlocked, it seems as though USB Restricted Mode was disabled on it which greatly compromised the devices security.

I believe Apple recently had some issues with people listening in on people's Siri inquiries, like others voice inquiries. In addition to a recent update in iOS 13 that had to fix a setting where location simply could not be turned off. Now I am not completely disagreeing with you on Apple's privacy push but they are no where near perfect.

In regards to functionality of older devices and Android I have a 2014 Samsung Tab Pro that (although not on the latest Android version) operates perfectly well with updated apps for the likes of Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc that most use their tablets for. In fact it even has stereo sound unlike my son's 6th gen iPad! 🤔

[Tsepz_GP]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stephen...-on-apple/amp/

"Apple, on the other hand, has made its fortunes through hitting grand slams on a couple of big ideas. For the last twelve years, most of Apple’s growth has come from its last big idea: the iPhone.

For much of that time, the iPhone has made up roughly two-thirds of Apple’s sales.

Problem is, the iPhone trend is out of gas. As I explained recently, iPhone sales have been shrinking since 2015. Last year, Apple sold 14 million fewer phones than it did three years ago.

For years, Apple masked this troubling decline by hiking iPhone prices. For years, it worked. Even though iPhone unit sales were falling, iPhone revenue kept growing.

But now revenue is plunging, too. Revenue dropped 12% last quarter—the third straight quarter of falling iPhone sales."

I love how you respond to my article from December 2019 with an article from Aug 2019

Let’s do this again

Not only did Apple increase the percentage of mobile profits it has from 65% to 66% last year

https://www.counterpointresearch.com...-profit-share/


But their AirPods business alone is exploding and is worth more than entire tech companies:

https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/202...money-spotify/



This goes right in the face of the older article you posted, Apple have multiple revenue streams that are doing incredibly well, and just when everyone thought Apple was down and out in China, they get a spike in sales in a country that has seen a decline in Dec 2019

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...-idUSKBN1Z81CP




It seems the cheaper iPhone XR and iPhone 11 are exactly what consumers were looking for and they are set to double down on models in this price segment this year.


Apples Q1 results will be interesting as this will be the first full quarter of iPhone 11 series sales and reduced XR which was already the best selling phone in every quarter in 2019.

Apple are also seeing tremendous growth in services and wearables.

They’ll be fine and with the iPhone trade-in programs, I’d say the iPhone stands a better chance of survival than majority of its competitors. Apple are not as badly affected as Samsung by Chinese phones sales. Samsung is A LOT more at risk as they still don’t have a solid ecosystem to keep people buying more Galaxys yearly...

Samsung can sell millions of Galaxys but the fact of the matter remains they don’t make a lot of money from them, their margins are thin and vulnerable to Chinese OEMs, they can have all the Market share they want but it does not mean money in the bank:

https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_ear...news-40928.php

[conite]

I love how you respond to my article from December 2019 with an article from Aug 2019

Let’s do this again

Not only did Apple increase the percentage of mobile profits it has from 65% to 66% last year

https://www.counterpointresearch.com...-profit-share/
[IMG=780x422]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200118/09846efb1289071ff10f11e8c3bf0111.jpg[/url]

But their AirPods business alone is exploding and is worth more than entire tech companies:

https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/202...money-spotify/

[IMG=660x460]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200118/0a8738cb11b63fb1ac09a494c19e73ba.jpg[/url]

This goes right in the face of the older article you posted, Apple have multiple revenue streams that are doing incredibly well, and just when everyone thought Apple was down and out in China, they get a spike in sales in a country that has seen a decline in Dec 2019

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...-idUSKBN1Z81CP

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...eec4c12f.plist


It seems the cheaper iPhone XR and iPhone 11 are exactly what consumers were looking for and they are set to double down on models in this price segment this year.


Apples Q1 results will be interesting as this will be the first full quarter of iPhone 11 series sales and reduced XR which was already the best selling phone in every quarter in 2019.

Apple are also seeing tremendous growth in services and wearables.

They’ll be fine and with the iPhone trade-in programs, I’d say the iPhone stands a better chance of survival than majority of its competitors. Apple are not as badly affected as Samsung by Chinese phones sales. Samsung is A LOT more at risk as they still don’t have a solid ecosystem to keep people buying more Galaxys yearly...

Samsung can sell millions of Galaxys but the fact of the matter remains they don’t make a lot of money from them, their margins are thin and vulnerable to Chinese OEMs, they can have all the Market share they want but it does not mean money in the bank:

https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_ear...news-40928.php
[IMG=1242x2688]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200118/42bd050eab55aa868cac06be1e399c66.png[/url]

I hear you, I do. There are smart analysts on both sides of this discussion and I understand that.

Obviously we will have to wait and see.

My gut still says that an OS provided for free to countless OEMs - and the competition that provides - will ultimately win out.

Android sales have risen from 80% to 87% of the market in the last 5 years. I see no reason for that trend to suddenly shift.

[Tsepz_GP]

I believe Apple recently had some issues with people listening in on people's Siri inquiries, like others voice inquiries. In addition to a recent update in iOS 13 that had to fix a setting where location simply could not be turned off. Now I am not completely disagreeing with you on Apple's privacy push but they are no where near perfect.

In regards to functionality of older devices and Android I have a 2014 Samsung Tab Pro that (although not on the latest Android version) operates perfectly well with updated apps for the likes of Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc that most use their tablets for. In fact it even has stereo sound unlike my son's 6th gen iPad!

I don’t think anyone said they are perfect, but their push for privacy and limiting tracking is yielding results already within a short time since iOS 13 was released:

https://appleinsider-com.cdn.ampproj...-industry/amp/



As for your Galaxy Tab Pro, when last did it receive a Security Update or OS update? My iPad Air 2 is from 2014 and running the latest iOS with the most recent security updates available.

Also the quality of apps on Android tablets tends to be very low outside of streaming, in fact the tablet experience on Android can be quite jarring, with many apps not always well optimized for tablets.

[Tsepz_GP]

I hear you, I do. There are smart analysts on both sides of this discussion and I understand that.

Obviously we will have to wait and see.

My gut still says that an OS provided for free to countless OEMs - and the competition that provides - will ultimately win out.

Android sales have risen from 80% to 87% of the market in the last 5 years. I see no reason for that trend to suddenly shift.

Nope that trend won’t shift, but I think you and I are talking at 2 different points here.

Yes, Android will always be there in the same way that Windows will always be there. Android has solidified it’s place and will always have the greatest share, BUT in terms of OEMs that landscape will have major changes. Companies like Samsung are more vulnerable as they compete directly against Chinese OEMs who are making better and cheaper devices daily, it’s a huge race to the bottom for OEMs in Android.

Just look at how OPPO/OnePlus, ZTE, Huawei and Xiaomi have basically elbowed out the likes of HTC, LG, Sony etc... to almost oblivion. Except in the USA. It’s becoming the PC world all over again. Android will get to a point where most OEMs will be surviving on razor thin margins trying to out do each other.

On the other hand Apple are the only ones that make iOS devices, and the growth of their Services and Wearables businesses as well as their iPhone upgrade programs pretty much guarantee them a place at the top of profits for a very long time.

Much like how Apple in the PC world, they have a small share but make the lions share of the profits.

[bh7171]

Nope that trend won’t shift, but I think you and I are talking at 2 different points here.

Yes, Android will always be there in the same way that Windows will always be there. Android has solidified it’s place and will always have the greatest share, BUT in terms of OEMs that landscape will have major changes. Companies like Samsung are more vulnerable as they compete directly against Chinese OEMs who are making better and cheaper devices daily, it’s a huge race to the bottom for OEMs in Android.

Just look at how OPPO/OnePlus, ZTE, Huawei and Xiaomi have basically elbowed out the likes of HTC, LG, Sony etc... to almost oblivion. Except in the USA. It’s becoming the PC world all over again. Android will get to a point where most OEMs will be surviving on razor thin margins trying to out do each other.

On the other hand Apple are the only ones that make iOS devices, and the growth of their Services and Wearables businesses as well as their iPhone upgrade programs pretty much guarantee them a place at the top of profits for a very long time.

Much like how Apple in the PC world, they have a small share but make the lions share of the profits.

I believe Samsung is on top of things and covering pretty much every price segment. See A40,50,70 from last year and now even improved A51,71 and 90. Also consider S10+Lite and Note10 Lite. They are aware of their competition and also of the growing wearable segment.

Conversely Apple is well aware of their slowing iPhone sales and the need to move toward services. Their standard iPad is cheaper than ever on sales and their back end is obviously (here in the states) hyper aggressive with their carrier partners on BOGO offers and trade ins.

Apple supports their devices like no other. (Unless they get caught purposefully slowing down devices and then having to replace batteries to save face) Their support and customer service is irrefutable but the likes of Samsung, Pixel and One Plus are starting to rise to a similar level.

Although Apple does a lot right so does Android. To me a key player here (and don't laugh) is also Microsoft. They have created some exceptional applications and now secure, private Chromium based Edge browser for Android. That Android play nice with Windows 10 and soon to be Windows 10 lite is important. It keeps people like me who utilize Windows 10 for our two laptops, home desktop and 4 office computers all in on whatever plays nicer together. (Plus I just like the flexibility of Android better and the functionality of Google and Microsoft applications that sync with Office 365 and One Drive)

[conite]

Nope that trend won’t shift, but I think you and I are talking at 2 different points here.

But Apple was able to offset losses in market share by increasing their prices on iPhones. That strategy will hit all wall.

[bb10adopter111]

The best mobile solution for privacy and security currently would be a WiFi-only device (such as the iPod Touch) with a mobile hotspot. Set up VOIP for your phone number, use aliases and zero knowledge service providers to set up your mobile carrier and online accounts.

Use a VPN on the hotspot so your mobile carrier can't see your connections, and another VPN on your device when using public WiFi.

Properly done, this is the best set up for both privacy and security. What you DON'T want is an always on cell connection to your device.

I know that's not what many people want, but there it is.

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

[bh7171]

But Apple was able to offset losses in market share by increasing their prices on iPhones. That strategy will hit all wall.

Isn't this already true with iPhone XR and 11 leading sales (higher end devices are not moving). Also the XR and 11 have been promoted to death here in the states on BOGO's and trade ins. Take those away and even those (Similar to Samsung as well) and those device sales #'s plummet as well.

Who wouldn't trade in their 6s like my daughter did last November for a new XR. Similar to why I traded in my S7 in '18 for my S9 when T-Mobile gave me 360 dollar credit. Take all of these marketing promotions away and the stick holding up the fence (of expensive phones) would snap in two!

[Tsepz_GP]

I believe Samsung is on top of things and covering pretty much every price segment. See A40,50,70 from last year and now even improved A51,71 and 90. Also consider S10+Lite and Note10 Lite. They are aware of their competition and also of the growing wearable segment.

Conversely Apple is well aware of their slowing iPhone sales and the need to move toward services. Their standard iPad is cheaper than ever on sales and their back end is obviously (here in the states) hyper aggressive with their carrier partners on BOGO offers and trade ins.

Apple supports their devices like no other. (Unless they get caught purposefully slowing down devices and then having to replace batteries to save face) Their support and customer service is irrefutable but the likes of Samsung, Pixel and One Plus are starting to rise to a similar level.

Although Apple does a lot right so does Android. To me a key player here (and don't laugh) is also Microsoft. They have created some exceptional applications and now secure, private Chromium based Edge browser for Android. That Android play nice with Windows 10 and soon to be Windows 10 lite is important. It keeps people like me who utilize Windows 10 for our two laptops, home desktop and 4 office computers all in on whatever plays nicer together. (Plus I just like the flexibility of Android better and the functionality of Google and Microsoft applications that sync with Office 365 and One Drive)

Problem with Samsung is they don’t have anything truly unique, besides the SPen, they don’t have much of an ecosystem. In actual fact Samsung were the ones that brought Microsoft into Android by partnering up with them and MS selling specialized versions of the S8, Note8, S9 and Note9 with MS suite of apps in the MS Store. I feel Samsung wasted that partnership as now Microsoft is doing their own Android strategy with their own devices and Google, Samsung should have locked them into a long term partnership.

Microsoft is now open to doing business with all Android OEMs meaning Samsung will not standout. The Huawei ban has actually given Samsung some breathing room as Huawei were set to dethrone Samsung in 2019. It’s only a matter of time for Samsung, IMO. Their profit guidance is a huge alarm bell. Not that Samsung will fall, but we may see a slight pullback and change of strategy from them as their profits in mobile dwindle.

But Apple was able to offset losses in market share by increasing their prices on iPhones. That strategy will hit all wall.

Have you not read any of the links? The iPhone XR dropped in price and became the best selling phone in 2019 every quarter. In fact the iPhone 11 took just 10 days to get into the Top 5 best sellers in Q3 2019 as it was launched 10 days before the quarter ended, what does that tell you? By the end of this quarter we may actually see Apple dominate in sales in terms of per individual phone with a 1-2 finish of iPhone XR and iPhone 11, both of which have bolstered sales in places like China, Europe, Japan and USA.

[anon(10439073)]

No

Posted via CB10

[Elephant_Canyon]

No

Are you responding to anything in particular, or did you just feel the urge to post a random word?

[conite]

Have you not read any of the links? The iPhone XR dropped in price and became the best selling phone in 2019 every quarter. In fact the iPhone 11 took just 10 days to get into the Top 5 best sellers in Q3 2019 as it was launched 10 days before the quarter ended, what does that tell you? By the end of this quarter we may actually see Apple dominate in sales in terms of per individual phone with a 1-2 finish of iPhone XR and iPhone 11, both of which have bolstered sales in places like China, Europe, Japan and USA.

But if sales share continues to decline, following the trend of the last 10 years, AND margins continue to fall, then what does that say about profits long-term?