01-28-12 01:24 PM
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  1. Harley Kid's Avatar
    "I've tried an android for the last year, it was a cool toy, but I want a smartphone that works for me and BB does it well."
    I also got "the look" from a sales rep, but being a long time BB fanatic, NOTHING was going to work as well as the OS on a blackberry for my needs. The Samsung made a great paper weight with a gorgeous screen and the Motorola 4G offered android market and a plethora of useless apps, but I do admit ... The iPhone 4 makes a great mp3 player for the bike.
    01-25-12 12:34 AM
  2. jcc7386's Avatar
    I worked for a Verizon dealer for a little over 30 months and they all talked about building up the Android devices and didn't really push Blackberry models. As a matter of fact, they were kinda pissed when they found out that I've had Blackberry ever since the Nextel 7300i, but I kept forging ahead. I was a top seller and I sold a lot of Blackberries - as well as Android devices. The president of the Verizon company for my state called me up to the main office one day and he asked me how I was doing so well and I told him the truth: "Everyone else is trying to force people to buy a phone they don't want. It's not about that - it's about finding a phone that's right for them. If they want a Blackberry, then stay in the Blackberries. If they want an Android, then show them those. If they're just browsing around, ask them questions and you'll be able to get a more concise idea about what they're looking for." He drove me up to the corporate office and introduced me to all the "big-wigs." I stayed up there a week explaining the executives what was going on, and they asked me for suggestions - because they knew I'd been a "problem-solver" in my previous jobs. I told them that if they were undecided, I would always show them three or four different phones (Blackberries and Androids) and point out the features and they would pick out a phone within 10 minutes. They were shocked to see how many Blackberries I sold over Androids just because of the QWERTY keyboard that's a lot easier to operate than the Androids.

    Long story short, there's still hope for Blackberry. It's just getting salesmen that aren't ignorant that's the problem. I was promoted to the Director of Hiring/Training and made changes to my area and that was reflected in our record-breaking sales. I made sure sales teams were trained properly on ALL phones, and you might be surprised at how we sold as many Blackberries as we did Android devices in most of our states. So if the phone companies changed their sales techniques, then we'll be alright.

    My former area still does very well because of the sales tactics that they learned. Or you can just ask for the manager, which is always a capital idea.
    Last edited by jcc7386; 01-25-12 at 03:09 AM.
    01-25-12 03:01 AM
  3. ADozenEggs@aol.com's Avatar
    I worked for a Verizon dealer for a little over 30 months and they all talked about building up the Android devices and didn't really push Blackberry models. As a matter of fact, they were kinda pissed when they found out that I've had Blackberry ever since the Nextel 7300i, but I kept forging ahead. I was a top seller and I sold a lot of Blackberries - as well as Android devices. The president of the Verizon company for my state called me up to the main office one day and he asked me how I was doing so well and I told him the truth: "Everyone else is trying to force people to buy a phone they don't want. It's not about that - it's about finding a phone that's right for them. If they want a Blackberry, then stay in the Blackberries. If they want an Android, then show them those. If they're just browsing around, ask them questions and you'll be able to get a more concise idea about what they're looking for." He drove me up to the corporate office and introduced me to all the "big-wigs." I stayed up there a week explaining the executives what was going on, and they asked me for suggestions - because they knew I'd been a "problem-solver" in my previous jobs. I told them that if they were undecided, I would always show them three or four different phones (Blackberries and Androids) and point out the features and they would pick out a phone within 10 minutes. They were shocked to see how many Blackberries I sold over Androids just because of the QWERTY keyboard that's a lot easier to operate than the Androids.

    Long story short, there's still hope for Blackberry. It's just getting salesmen that aren't ignorant that's the problem. I was promoted to the Director of Hiring/Training and made changes to my area and that was reflected in our record-breaking sales. I made sure sales teams were trained properly on ALL phones, and you might be surprised at how we sold as many Blackberries as we did Android devices in most of our states. So if the phone companies changed their sales techniques, then we'll be alright.

    My former area still does very well because of the sales tactics that they learned. Or you can just ask for the manager, which is always a capital idea.
    BB went from 17% to 6% of the U.S. smart phone market. Are you saying this drop is due to street level store reps?
    01-25-12 03:46 AM
  4. Zetti's Avatar
    I just heard the same story the OP is talking about. A guy who works for me who knows I just dropped Android for Blackberry comes in and tells me how the playbook is discontinued, that there will never be a new update and the new Operating System (BB10) will never be on a phone because they are having too many problems.

    Now someone who stays up to date with technology like most of us know this is not true, but this person resembles the general public; and he really believed that was true. He said to me he had the "inside scoop".

    I think that all this bad media towards the blackberry really does hurt their image and in turn their sales.
    pantlesspenguin likes this.
    01-25-12 07:06 AM
  5. Zetti's Avatar
    BB went from 17% to 6% of the U.S. smart phone market. Are you saying this drop is due to street level store reps?
    I don't think that is what he is saying. There are other factors that went into their decline in market, but store reps really do have a big influence. Like I just stated in my last post the general public doesn't know what is really going on. They look at people who work at Verizon Wireless for example, to be experts, and they really listen and trust their opinion.

    The majority of people in the world I believe don't really care about what cell phone they have, just as long as it does its job. And when these salesman whom opinion you are trusting is pushing you away from one manufacturer and pushing you towards another, what do you think is going to happen?

    Imagine if cars where sold in the same fashion as cell phones. All manufacturers in one store. If all the salesman insulted Ford, what do you think would happen to their sales?
    Mecca EL, BigBadWulf and jcc7386 like this.
    01-25-12 07:16 AM
  6. nyc_rock's Avatar
    BB went from 17% to 6% of the U.S. smart phone market. Are you saying this drop is due to street level store reps?
    I would catagorize that response as a massive oversimplification.
    01-25-12 08:05 AM
  7. Mecca EL's Avatar
    BB went from 17% to 6% of the U.S. smart phone market. Are you saying this drop is due to street level store reps?
    Where are you getting this info from, post the link to your resource.

    Here's mine: http://www.checkpoint.com/downloads/...vey-report.pdf

    And here's some on which platform is easiest to develop apps for: http://www.devx.com/SpecialReports/Article/37696/1954

    And here's some info from last year, that a salesperson would find exciting to market to the all important 13+ demographic: http://www.comscore.com/Press_Events...r_Market_Share
    Last edited by Mecca EL; 01-25-12 at 09:36 AM. Reason: Update
    01-25-12 09:14 AM
  8. ADozenEggs@aol.com's Avatar
    I don't think that is what he is saying. There are other factors that went into their decline in market, but store reps really do have a big influence.
    Fair enough. But did BB sales decline because of the store level influence or do store reps pitch other products because of the decline in sales?

    What I'm trying to say is that to imply that the store level rep is as influential as some make them out to be is hard to consider.

    I believe that most consumers, or at least the majority of the average consumers, that walk have already decided what devices they will consider by the time the walk into a mobile store.

    Does a store have influence? Yes. Do they have the enough influence to bring a entire company's sales down? Just find that difficult to accept.
    01-25-12 10:14 AM
  9. ADozenEggs@aol.com's Avatar
    I would catagorize that response as a massive oversimplification.
    Of course it is. But no more over simplifying than the idea that cell phone providers, because of data usage or other things, have distributed an 'internal use only' memo advising their store reps to push BB to the back of the line.
    Just doesn't make sense.
    01-25-12 10:17 AM
  10. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    I believe that most consumers, or at least the majority of the average consumers, that walk have already decided what devices they will consider by the time the walk into a mobile store.
    I think you'd be surprised, actually. I know being a techie and frequenting boards like this, you see tons of hype surrounding various phone releases and people saying "I'm getting THAT phone!!!" However, in my experience in just going to retail stores for troubleshooting, plan upgrades, etc I see lots of people while I'm waiting in line either going around looking at various devices themselves or having reps take them around. I frequently see people weighing their options, and taking what the reps say into consideration. I really think THESE types of people make up your "average" consumer. I haven't seen this in person, but I believe that it's easy to sway the "average" consumer if they come in looking for a specific phone, but then they mention what they're wanting out of a mobile device and the rep shows them something else that they either genuinely feel fits their needs better, OR showing them something they're trying to push out the door.
    01-25-12 10:32 AM
  11. ADozenEggs@aol.com's Avatar

    1.)
    Where are you getting this info from, post the link to your resource.

    Here's mine: http://www.checkpoint.com/downloads/...vey-report.pdf

    And here's some on which platform is easiest to develop apps for: The Mobile Platform Cheat Sheet

    And here's some info from last year, that a salesperson would find exciting to market to the all important 13+ demographic: comScore Reports May 2011 U.S. Mobile Subscriber Market Share - comScore, Inc
    1.) I apologize for the 3 a.m. too many martinis post. That should have read: R.I.M's share of the U.S. smart phone market was roughly "17%" YE 2009. It's roughly 10% YE 2011 and had lost another "6%" in the 4Q 2011.

    Again, too much vodka. I will attempt to post from a state of sobriety from now on and no more at 3am.

    No one questions R.I.M's prowess in the enterprise sector. But even here, they're losing market share.

    As for 13+'ers, what might be more relevant would be know which model(s) they carried, because I would assume most in this age bracket aren't making the financial decisions as to which cell phone will actually be purchased. I say this because at Sprint BB phones are pretty inexpensive with a two year activation:

    Search Results

    And Sprint offers unlimited plans. So a data usage argument can't be made in their case.

    So, if the 13+'ers are carrying an inexpensive model, then I would surmise that economics has probably played a big role in their parent's purchasing decisions.

    What I do find interesting is that neither Sprint nor Verizon Mobile display a BB phone on it's front page when you arrive at the cell phone section.

    AT&T, however, does.

    Cheers!
    Mecca EL likes this.
    01-25-12 10:56 AM
  12. Mecca EL's Avatar
    1.) I apologize for the 3 a.m. too many martinis post. That should have read: R.I.M's share of the U.S. smart phone market was roughly "17%" YE 2009. It's roughly 10% YE 2011 and had lost another "6%" in the 4Q 2011.

    Again, too much vodka. I will attempt to post from a state of sobriety from now on and no more at 3am.

    No one questions R.I.M's prowess in the enterprise sector. But even here, they're losing market share.

    As for 13+'ers, what might be more relevant would be know which model(s) they carried, because I would assume most in this age bracket aren't making the financial decisions as to which cell phone will actually be purchased. I say this because at Sprint BB phones are pretty inexpensive with a two year activation:

    Search Results

    And Sprint offers unlimited plans. So a data usage argument can't be made in their case.

    So, if the 13+'ers are carrying an inexpensive model, then I would surmise that economics has probably played a big role in their parent's purchasing decisions.

    What I do find interesting is that neither Sprint nor Verizon Mobile display a BB phone on it's front page when you arrive at the cell phone section.

    AT&T, however, does.

    Cheers!
    MAAAAN!!! Forget the figures, do you have a hook up on that vodka??? Hahahahahaha!!!
    pantlesspenguin likes this.
    01-25-12 11:04 AM
  13. ADozenEggs@aol.com's Avatar
    MAAAAN!!! Forget the figures, do you have a hook up on that vodka??? Hahahahahaha!!!
    If you're a Grey Goose man, I've the got the hook up for LIFE!! Non of that Kettle One ish when I'm rolling.

    And I happen to know more than a few members of the 'softer' s-x who REALLY dig men who dig Grey Goose...

    You dig me Brother??

    Jeez... I think I'm still drunk...
    Mecca EL likes this.
    01-25-12 12:20 PM
  14. Mecca EL's Avatar
    If you're a Grey Goose man, I've the got the hook up for LIFE!! Non of that Kettle One ish when I'm rolling.

    And I happen to know more than a few members of the 'softer' s-x who REALLY dig men who dig Grey Goose...

    You dig me Brother??

    Jeez... I think I'm still drunk...
    Bwahahahahahaha!!! We thread jacking man!! Lets start a Grey Goose thread!
    01-25-12 12:22 PM
  15. undone's Avatar
    People come to me for technical advice for computer and related stuff. I KNOW I can convince them to get one thing or another that is within there price point (I dont I point them to what seems to fit there need), so do you really believe that a sales rep that is told to push something or not something else doesn't know how? Think Apple's success is some crazy accident in Bizzaro world? No people got SOLD devices. Steve Jobs sold ice cubes to Eskimos (true story /sarcasm off)...
    grimm01 likes this.
    01-25-12 12:30 PM
  16. anthogag's Avatar
    BB went from 17% to 6% of the U.S. smart phone market. Are you saying this drop is due to street level store reps?

    Yes, if there's an 'attitude' against BB devices the outcome is less sales
    01-25-12 01:00 PM
  17. anthogag's Avatar
    It might be a case of an idea being too successful. Carrier stores get a memo from head office to 'push' android and iPhone, nothing mentioned about BB. But overzealous salespeople seem to think this means dumping on BB products
    01-25-12 01:16 PM
  18. GingerSnapsBack's Avatar
    Carrier stores get a memo from head office to 'push' android and iPhone, nothing mentioned about BB.
    Seriously?
    01-25-12 01:21 PM
  19. MartyMcfly's Avatar
    It might be a case of an idea being too successful. Carrier stores get a memo from head office to 'push' android and iPhone, nothing mentioned about BB. But overzealous salespeople seem to think this means dumping on BB products
    Lol hilarious. The stuff people come up with.


    Sent from my IPhone 4s using Tapatalk
    01-25-12 01:34 PM
  20. undone's Avatar
    Seriously?
    Sure why wouldnt they push something that makes them better margins?
    01-25-12 02:45 PM
  21. ADozenEggs@aol.com's Avatar
    Bwahahahahahaha!!! We thread jacking man!! Lets start a Grey Goose thread!
    Round em up! I'm pouring, and the bottle's heavy!
    01-25-12 02:46 PM
  22. ADozenEggs@aol.com's Avatar
    Think Apple's success is some crazy accident in Bizzaro world?
    As someone who doesn't own an iPhone(and if they keep the current form factor I never will as the screen is too small for me), I have no personal stake in the success of the product.

    That said, I could write a dissertation of what that ice cream selling Houdini(as you put it) Jobs and crew did right and what R.I.M could have done better. And I don't think any of it would seem so Bizzaro if looked at moment by moment. In hindsight, it may have seemed inevitable.

    I could say the same things about Apple. For instance, if they DON'T release a new product each year, it's very possible that the expectation phenomena("spell" if you like) may be broken and the villagers will look to the next thing.

    Will that happen? Nooooooo... Apple understands that the impact of 'social consciouness' on sales is UNDENIABLE and they've worked diligently to cultivate the phenomena(Whether is SC is good or bad for a culture is debatable and honestly not relevant. These people spend their money. Case Closed).

    But at no point would I say that R.I.M was driven to it's knees by a group a young sales reps who are more concerned with the coming weekend's parties than steering uninformed consumers to products that don't fit their needs.

    Kinda hard to swallow. Unlike Grey Goose which goes down oh so smoothly.

    The Nectar of the Gods!
    pantlesspenguin likes this.
    01-25-12 03:13 PM
  23. grover5's Avatar
    Now I want a martini.
    01-25-12 03:20 PM
  24. cognac_sipper's Avatar
    Blackberry needs to make a touch device that pushes the boundaries. There current devices just seem clumsy. If they could smooth out the software and make it developer friendly I dont see how they couldn't rebound. They need to push bbm make it work seem less with the Playbook.

    I switched from a bold 9900 to galaxy nexus and wouldnt think of switching back at this point.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
    01-25-12 06:37 PM
  25. gvdw's Avatar
    I was in a large Verizon corporate store today in a mall in a midwestern city. I wanted to look at a Blackberry Bold 9930 to see if I wanted to switch. When I asked where the BB section was I was told in a very unfriendly manner that there were none on display. One of the sales workers went to the back room to try and find one only to come out and tell me that they did not have any in the store. When I asked why, she said they try not to sell BB's anymore. I thought of the comments of the new BB CEO who said he didn't think they needed to do any drastic changes.
    If the largest provider in the US is trying not to sell BB's anymore, I would think RIM is in trouble, at least in the US.
    vrs626 and quik4life like this.
    01-25-12 07:57 PM
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