[app_Developer]

If the largest provider in the US is trying not to sell BB's anymore, I would think RIM is in trouble, at least in the US.

Our office is down the street from a (company owned) AT&T store. Last I checked, they had two BB's on display in one relatively dark corner near the accessories wall. To get to them you would have to ignore the whole long wall of various Android devices and of course the big, bright iPhone stands.

So what does that mean? If RIM is going to make a comeback in the US, do they need to build out a few Blackberry flagship stores at least in the major cities? The Apple stores were very, very important in giving people a chance to try out iPhone and iPad in a positive presentation with well-trained salespeople.

Maybe RIM needs to invest in at least a few of these here in the US like they are in Asia.

Heins seems sincere about making the transition from selling to CIOs to selling directly to consumers. But RIM doesn't really have a good way any more of consistently reaching consumers in the US at least. They need to fix that.

[cherimoya]

i was in a major carrier store for each of NYC area carriers -other than sprint, my current carrier, sniffing out the competition cause my sprint contract will be ending in a while. in verizon, a working bb was available, but staff were more android/apple oriented and didn't know much about bb. stated something to effect of bb still sells quite well and bb customers like new model very much, they just dont know much about it. were very knowledgeable enthused about iphones and 2 android models. i asked if anyone working there was knowledgeable re bb, answer was no, i asked why, they just shrugged. it seems to sell without them knowing much about it was consensus. not good, rim. by contrast, attt store rep was knowledgeable about all phones there, was able compare contrast intelligently and stated emphatically that when come down to it, iphone/android are great toys, but bb is best device to communicate with and get things done. bb does all that well enough, and also gets things done the best. in t mobile store, -- no iphones sold, official attitude was our phones are 'just as good as itoy w/o the label and high price', were willing to push just out new windows lumias, but also were knowledgeable about all the phones they had. several stated the differences everyone makes so much of is all window dressing, nothing is as good as a bb, unless you're a kid loading up on videos to watch and not doing much else. a few stated they themselves are bb users/lovers, and overall attitude of all was if you have a bb, nothing else is going to make you as happy. i hope this is indicative of the way things are trending.

[paris.williams]

aside from the blackberry's shortcomings, there has to be more to the behavior of the sales reps. what would drive them not to sell blackberries? what would drive them to be hostile at the slightest hint of a blackberry?

with the number of quality issues, defects, bricking cases, and poor ecosystem, i am 100% sure they receive complaints from previous buyers going back to the store to vent. i am sure that the sales reps have gotten so tired of that and are now preventing people to make the same mistake.

just my two cents. sounds so simple but makes sense huh.

[momofteme]

But at no point would I say that R.I.M was driven to it's knees by a group a young sales reps who are more concerned with the coming weekend's parties than steering uninformed consumers to products that don't fit their needs.

I think you miss the point...It IS RIM's problem that the young sales reps don't push, or actively push against BB phones. It is also RIM's problem if the carriers are encouraging this behavior for whatever reason.

I have had very similar experiences (bad) in both Verizon and Best Buy stores. The T-mobile sales people were helpful at least, if not well informed on the new BBs

[anthogag]

To reach a lot of people in a positive environment they could put out infomercials on tv describing all the features and advantages of BB products

[kraski]

To reach a lot of people in a positive environment they could put out infomercials on tv describing all the features and advantages of BB products

Hush!!!!!! We don't need a hair club equivalent for phones. Or convincing the world that Blackberries are actually made by Ronco or Popeel.

A series of rotating regular commercials, each featuring a different BB feature, would be a good way to familiarize the general public with the competitive features that are equal to or better than other smartphones. The Diplo ads are good, but they don't really show how his BB helps him do all he does. And how well known is he in North America?

[anthogag]

Hush!!!!!! We don't need a hair club equivalent for phones. Or convincing the world that Blackberries are actually made by Ronco or Popeel.

A series of rotating regular commercials, each featuring a different BB feature, would be a good way to familiarize the general public with the competitive features that are equal to or better than other smartphones. The Diplo ads are good, but they don't really show how his BB helps him do all he does. And how well known is he in North America?

We need commercials AND infomercials.

Infomercials give the consumer a lot of information without distractions and in a positive way.

With this kind of exposure to BB products ignorant salespeople can be brushed off like dandruff on a black jacket

[LMG1963]

i got same results. I have been a loyal blackberry fan for years. they tried to push android so i was a bit on the offensive side and said if i wanted to play games i would go to toys r us. so at the end of the day i activated a new torch and a 9790 which i must say i am very impressed with os7.

[straycat5.56]

The only point to this is that BB is going to have a hard enough time regaining its position as a sought after brand. But with this outright hostility to it by the very people who are selling it, the chips are stacked significantly against RIM.

Not with me. I've had my original Curve 8310 for 5-years. I just recently sold my iPhone 3gs for $25.00. It had been in an Otterbox for two years, and it looked like brand new.
I will be getting the Bold 9900 when it's time to upgrade in June of this year.
The iPhone has it's purpose, as does the BB. I've alway's felt the BB is a sturdier, more durable phone than the iPhone. I've dropped the iPhone (in the Otterbox) on numerous occasions and it would really rattle it. It would take a few minutes for it to come back to it's senses. Not so with the Curve. (and I'm hoping the Bold will be just as forgiving).
RIM doesn't need to dazzle me in anyway, and if the iPhone geeks at the AT&T store don't like it, I'll just do my transaction on the AT&T website.

[kraski]

We need commercials and infomercials.

Commercials, yes. Infomercials, no.

Infomercials can give the consumer a lot of information about BB products and it presents BB products without distractions and in a positive way.

When's the last time you sat through more than 3-5 minutes about the Ronco Vegematic, Hair Club, or one of the multitude of Time-Life music collections. They are excessively repetitive and, unless you're looking for that specific type of product, you remember what they're selling, but not in a positive way. Think about it. When you're checking the local TV listings, do you get all excited, looking forward to "Paid Programming"?

Going to a carrier store armed with this kind of exposure to BB products is better and ignorant salespeople can be brushed off like dandruff on a black jacket

Being informed is a good thing. But how many future BB users do you expect to be positively impressed by a half hour of repetitive drivel? Most people who want or need a smartphone are also connected. I'd like to see a normal length commercial about a specific feature and highlights a web address to get more detailed info via videos. That way they get a length of attention grabbing that's palatable and can voluntarily get more info if they want it. Then it's their choice to view 10-30 minute video. Instead of it being forced on them.

[NCUDS]

Was about to say the exact same thing as the OP. Picked up an Android "superphone" a while back, and as much as the phone does have many pros, it also has many cons that IMO a cellphone (for how I use it at least), shouldn't have. So I asked about the 9790 to a rep at the same T-Mo store I go to all the times. The first rep didn't even know the 9790 existed, and the second rep (a friend of mine so to speak), after a while said: "Yeah, he is a BlackBerry person" as they were in shock on why I would want a BB over an Android. But he said it with the same disgust people say "yeah he's a smoker" or something... When you think about the main features a cellphone should have, and forget about the ridiculous games and apps, BB is top notch, yet for some reason it is hated for no apparent reason by people who never even used one.

[jcc7386]

I don't think that is what he is saying. There are other factors that went into their decline in market, but store reps really do have a big influence. Like I just stated in my last post the general public doesn't know what is really going on. They look at people who work at Verizon Wireless for example, to be experts, and they really listen and trust their opinion.

The majority of people in the world I believe don't really care about what cell phone they have, just as long as it does its job. And when these salesman whom opinion you are trusting is pushing you away from one manufacturer and pushing you towards another, what do you think is going to happen?

Imagine if cars where sold in the same fashion as cell phones. All manufacturers in one store. If all the salesman insulted Ford, what do you think would happen to their sales?

Exactly! That's what I told my bosses. The cell phone market, with the exception of about 7% of clientele (there have been studies), has already done the research for the salesmen and know exactly what kind of phone they're going to get before they walk in, or they at least have a narrow idea of what kind of phone they want - by "narrow idea," I mean they are looking at two possible phones and need some help deciding. All the salesmen have to do is close the deal.

I broke it down to my executives like this: salesmen have two essential functions in the stores: 1) close the deal by answering any final questions the buyer might have, and 2) sell apps, features, accessories for the specific phone. With that in mind, the salesman doesn't even have to be an excellent salesman. He or she just has to apply KISS Marketing Concept to the final sale (Keep It Simple Stupid). So, knowledge of each phone is paramount and knowledge of the features and apps and add-ons is also paramount. In a market that's commission-based or draw-based, we encouraged them to try to sell features, apps, accessories to the buyer while closing the sale. We wouldn't put price tags on accessories and our salesmen could sell them for however much they wanted to and keep all the markup.

There is a number 3 - and it's a perpetual number 3 - is to service the account if the buyer comes in and has a problem down the road. Also, we encouraged them to send out birthday cards, etc. (we have the birth dates and all) just to remind them to come back to us when upgrading.

[anthogag]

Commercials, yes. Infomercials, no.



When's the last time you sat through more than 3-5 minutes about the Ronco Vegematic, Hair Club, or one of the multitude of Time-Life music collections. They are excessively repetitive and, unless you're looking for that specific type of product, you remember what they're selling, but not in a positive way. Think about it. When you're checking the local TV listings, do you get all excited, looking forward to "Paid Programming"?



Being informed is a good thing. But how many future BB users do you expect to be positively impressed by a half hour of repetitive drivel? Most people who want or need a smartphone are also connected. I'd like to see a normal length commercial about a specific feature and highlights a web address to get more detailed info via videos. That way they get a length of attention grabbing that's palatable and can voluntarily get more info if they want it. Then it's their choice to view 10-30 minute video. Instead of it being forced on them.

I will watch an infomercial if it's a product I'm interested in

[southlander]

I was again in my local Verizon store today to check out a 9850. To my surprise the sales rep had one on the counter showing it to a customer. Then I noticed she'd gotten it from the back and the battery was stone dead. It took her no time in fiddling with it (deep sighs) to talk the lady into a Droid Razr. The lady asked no questions and pretty much was like yeah. Ok yeah. I'll take it!

This is how RIM is losing in the US. One customer at a time.

So then I was looking at their 9930 on display. I always change the default search to Google when I can. The phone had no service. No data. I asked the same rep why it was not working and she blew me off. There was nothing wrong with the device. It just was not activated on their network. So of course anyone that tries it will think it is horrible.

Geez.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9930 using Tapatalk

[straycat5.56]

The salesman at my local AT&T store had a good point. He said 99% of their sales staff are very young and have never been exposed to the nitty gritty of the BB. He said they are mostly iPhone-heads.
After all, you can't really sell something you yourself don't understand. I don't think the problem is with RIM as much as it is with the store management. New salespeople should be required to take classes on smartphones, and learn the ins and outs of each.
After visiting my store on numerous occasions, I have come to the conclusion that they obviously are not being "schooled".
Do a little survey yourself, and go to various stores and note what the salespeople are carrying. It ain't BB.

[anthogag]

I was again in my local Verizon store today to check out a 9850. To my surprise the sales rep had one on the counter showing it to a customer. Then I noticed she'd gotten it from the back and the battery was stone dead. It took her no time in fiddling with it (deep sighs) to talk the lady into a Droid Razr. The lady asked no questions and pretty much was like yeah. Ok yeah. I'll take it!

This is how RIM is losing in the US. One customer at a time.

So then I was looking at their 9930 on display. I always change the default search to Google when I can. The phone had no service. No data. I asked the same rep why it was not working and she blew me off. There was nothing wrong with the device. It just was not activated on their network. So of course anyone that tries it will think it is horrible.

Geez.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9930 using Tapatalk

That's why marketing is so important. It's better if people go into a store wanting to see the BB they saw in advertising.

[BigBadWulf]

That's why marketing is so important. It's better if people go into a store wanting to see the BB they saw in advertising.

All the marketing in the world won't overcome a reluctant or degrading sales staff, let alone the customer not being able to experience the phone, prior to purchase.

[kraski]

All the marketing in the world won't overcome a reluctant or degrading sales staff, let alone the customer not being able to experience the phone, prior to purchase.

Very good point. Nothing's going to kill the good impression of a great commercial faster than getting into the store and getting the impression they don't sell well because nobody bothered to keep one battery charged enough for an in store try out. The sales person doesn't even have to make it worse by commenting.

[ShoshiOne]

I agree that salespeople have a great influence on the market and buyers. There are people going into stores knowing they want to switch platforms/phones and have their mind already made up. But with people who don't do research or don't do enough research (which seems to me to be the majority), they rely on the sales reps to help give them info and make their final decision. That's putting a lot of trust in the rep's hands.

In regards to reactions, I've had more negative experiences than helpful. The big, main AT&T store I usually go to doesn't promote BBs hardly at all and I've gotten the same lines as others "you don't want that phone", "BBs can't do much/too buggy", etc. I've also had some very pushy people that didn't want to show me the BB I was wanting to look at. Instead, they kept wanting to show me other phones and "oh, would you like a physical keyboard instead of touchscreen" then they still would direct me to other phones than BB. At one time I was looking at the 9800 and wanted to see it in person, but the rep kept redirecting me. I finally got fed up enough to say the BB does what I want and I can personalize it easily for my style. The guy tried to convince me other phones were the same. I said, "look, I don't care, this is what I want. It can do all types of messaging quickly, it has the apps that I want and need, it's just a theme download away from getting the setup how I like it and a lot more that I like. That's what I want so I'm just going to go over and look at the phone." He was baffled and then said something like "of course. If you REALLY want that." I just ignored that comment and said I'd see someone else when I purchased my phone. I'm not really a confronting, pushy person, but he just pushed too far.

On the other side of the coin, I found a much smaller store and started to go there with any questions and for my accessories. They were very kind, and never tried to redirect me or question my purchases. When I decided to switch to the 9900, I went to them. Since they were a small store, they didn't have it coming in - not at the moment at least. (note: they did have both torches at the time and a curve displayed. And since the number of all phones displayed wasn't many, this was pretty decent I believe.And they weren't stuffed in a corner.) They told me they could just order it online for me and have it delivered there, but I was wanting to see the actual phone and then buy it if so inclined. I can be impatient that way. Went back to the big store--same story and crud with them, nothing had changed.

So...there are good reps and bad reps out there. You just have to be careful and try to bypass the bad ones as much as you can.

[kraski]

I will watch an infomercial if it's a product I'm interested in

Me, too. But most are for things I don't care about and don't stick around to find out if they can change my mind. Like Billie Mayes (sp?) was for OxyClean. I hate screaming DJs and announcers and I already have my laundry detergent preferences. I'd probably sit through a BB infomercial. But I already own one. The interest in the phone is already there. Which means I'm not the audience they'd be looking for. And that was my point.

Most people aren't going to sit through a 30 minute presentation for a phone they haven't even decided they might think about. The first line of attack has to be regular 30 and 60 second commercials rotating a set of features that BB does particularly well. They'll get the interest going. Then, in those, also highlight a link to where a viewer can go on the web for more info. Then, it's their choice to be spoon fed 30 minutes of info and there's no negative response to doing it.

[BigBadWulf]

Me, too. But most are for things I don't care about and don't stick around to find out if they can change my mind. Like Billie Mayes (sp?) was for OxyClean. I hate screaming DJs and announcers and I already have my laundry detergent preferences. I'd probably sit through a BB infomercial. But I already own one. The interest in the phone is already there. Which means I'm not the audience they'd be looking for. And that was my point.

Most people aren't going to sit through a 30 minute presentation for a phone they haven't even decided they might think about. The first line of attack has to be regular 30 and 60 second commercials rotating a set of features that BB does particularly well. They'll get the interest going. Then, in those, also highlight a link to where a viewer can go on the web for more info. Then, it's their choice to be spoon fed 30 minutes of info and there's no negative response to doing it.

One thing I've seen used very effectively lately, is the use of Shazam in advertising.

[kraski]

One thing I've seen used very effectively lately, is the use of Shazam in advertising.

I noticed that in one ad. Meant to look into that further. Thanks for mentioning it.

[W Hoa]

If it hasn't already been said, 'Telcos make money off your data usage'. Why would they promote a phone that is designed to be very efficient with data?

Data compression doesn't come into play with videos and other media on the Blackbery so you can expect RIM to be promoting videos, music and games in the coming months. This will make the telcos very happy and Blackberry's of every stripe will be promoted big time.

[Denise in Los Angeles]

All the marketing in the world won't overcome a reluctant or degrading sales staff, let alone the customer not being able to experience the phone, prior to purchase.

Another true story, I was in the T-Mobile store last year, and they had ONE Blackberry on
display. It was so horrible, I know I should have taken a picture but I didn't.... it was not
working, dirty, and had some keys missing. No one happening to walk by would even want
to touch it. Of course, the Android phones were clean and working... GRRRR!!

[Denise in Los Angeles]

We need commercials AND infomercials.

Infomercials give the consumer a lot of information without distractions and in a positive way.

With this kind of exposure to BB products ignorant salespeople can be brushed off like dandruff on a black jacket

What they need is QVC and Home Shopping Network!! That will get more exposure,
and people will see what Blackberrys and Playbooks can do!

My sister bought a Curve from HSN!! I never expected her to buy Blackberry, but now
we are up to 5 in our family!