10-06-11 12:46 AM
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  1. massari81890's Avatar
    There were a lot of replies and I can't reply to all of them, so I'll just argue against what most of you said...

    I don't know if I wasn't clear enough. Maybe since I summarized the story, you didn't understand. I told him that I'm looking at the Berries and I want one, but I am having a hard time choosing between the two. He confirms that I'm more into the bigger screens (Storm 2 user). Let me point out, that screen size is not the only deciding factor between the 9930 & 9850, so it's not like I'm an ***** and the answer is obvious...bigger screen? The 9850 has a bigger screen. What I expected is that the employee would educate the customer about the pros and cons of each device, not start bringing an Android device into play that I never gave him an idea that I was interested in!

    Overall, this was an experiment. I didn't need help at the store, since I know everything about both devices. This was never about ME. This is about customers buying their first smartphone, and getting talked out of BBs and into Androids. That's unfair! If you're not going to promote sales of the device, don't sell the device all together. This results in RIM losing customers.

    I never heard an employee down-talking an Android by saying, "if you're going with an Android, you might want to buy a few chargers and a few spare batteries". The fast is that RIM is losing customers because of employees like that and in my opinion, those employees should be fired!
    09-24-11 12:11 PM
  2. Chrisy's Avatar
    Ok...then complain to the manager and try to get him fired.
    09-24-11 12:15 PM
  3. the_sleuth's Avatar
    All of you fretting, should read Ziglar's Sales Secrets. Salesman pretend to listen to customers wants and needs but what drives salesman's behaviour is compensation. He was looking for the fast sale. His experience taught him Android phone sells quickly, focus on the high volume product. Less time spent on each customer means more sales opportunities.
    09-24-11 12:29 PM
  4. IndePanda's Avatar
    In my opinion, the sales person was not well-trained, nor was he a good listener. The customer said he was checking out the "BERRIES". The salesperson was more interested in talking than listening to his customer.

    Here's what happened to me one week ago when I visited my local Sprint store. I was approached by a Sprint salesperson as soon as I walked through the door. He asked me how he could help me. I said I was interested in checking out the new BlackBerry phones. He took me to the BlackBerry section and told me the Bold 9930 was one of his favorite phones he that they carry. He said it had been a long time since they had carried new models of BlackBerry & that the new ones were very welcomed. I checked it out and agreed with him that it seemed really nice. I mentioned that the 9930 seemed like it had a somewhat larger screen than my current BlackBerry & that I think I would appreciate that if I purchased it. Listening to my every word, he immediately said, "then you should also check out our new BlackBerry Torch full-touchscreen because it has a beautiful, large screen". He took me to it and I loved it! Now THAT was a good salesperson.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    macbodock likes this.
    09-24-11 01:01 PM
  5. CrackedBarry's Avatar

    Overall, this was an experiment. I didn't need help at the store, since I know everything about both devices. This was never about ME. This is about customers buying their first smartphone, and getting talked out of BBs and into Androids.
    Nope, sorry still don't see what you're complaining about.
    (Especially now that you're admitting it was an "experiment" and you wasted the guys time.

    He was just being a good salesperson. He knows from experience that many BB customers end up unhappy and come back to return the device, he knows from experience that there are many BB owners who jump ship to Android, and he knows from experience that an Android is a better fit for many people.

    So naturally he wants to make sure that you'll be happy with your phone, don't return it, and therefore wants to show you an Android.


    This results in RIM losing customers.
    No RIM results in RIM losing customers. Cuase they make pisspoor devices that people don't want.

    Again: The reason he promotes Android isn't cause Lazaridis took his lunchmoney. It's cause it results in happy customers. Ask them how BBs are selling, and they'll tell you they get a lot of returns on them.
    K Bear likes this.
    09-24-11 01:21 PM
  6. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    What happened to the adage, "The customer is always right"? If a customer requests something specific, the salesperson should offer that product to the customer, not try to push his own agenda.
    09-24-11 01:30 PM
  7. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    The 9850 has a virtual keyboard and a large screen.
    3.7 is small compared to 4.5"

    It's like saying the iPhone has a large screen. It doesn't. It has a small screen.

    If I go into AT&T and say I like Virtual Keyboards and a Large Screen I fully expect them to shovel me towards phones like Inspire/Infuse 4G and not something like a Torch 9810 or iPhone 4. I went into AT&T yesterday and the Rep didn't even attempt to shovel me towards the iPhone, in fact. When I was playing with the Torch 9810 he even came over and had a conversation about it.

    Sometimes customers come in looking at a certain brand becaue it's all they've used. Reps can't read your mind. Sometimes being shown different options and having a conversation about other platforms does work for consumers, and they find something they actually like even though they thought they were going to walk out with a set brand when they walked in the door.
    Last edited by N8ter; 09-24-11 at 02:09 PM.
    K Bear and pantlesspenguin like this.
    09-24-11 02:00 PM
  8. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    What happened to the adage, "The customer is always right"? If a customer requests something specific, the salesperson should offer that product to the customer, not try to push his own agenda.
    If they're informed, then they are right. The OP was there to waste time and act like he didn't want to be informed. Sad fact is, there are a ton of users here who have never used an Android, iOS, or WP7 device extensively but act as if they are informed. They aren't. It's not fine to quote BGR saying BB sucks, but it's okay to quote a random friend who said Battery Life on Android is terrible and all the phones are laggy, etc.

    This is why I don't just go to a carrier store and walk out wiht a device. Before you make a sale, you might se me 5+ times spending 1+ hours in the store just playing with the phone, pissing off other potential customers who want to see it in the process :P

    It is good to be platform agnostic.

    I'm not the most optimist person on the internet, but I'm equally pessimistic towards every platform I [have] used. They all get a fair shot with me, unless it's coming form a company like Samsung who can't code their way out of a wet paper bag with terrible customer support.
    Last edited by N8ter; 09-24-11 at 02:10 PM.
    Chrisy, K Bear and pantlesspenguin like this.
    09-24-11 02:07 PM
  9. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    If they're informed, then they are right. The OP was there to waste time and act like he didn't want to be informed. Sad fact is, there are a ton of users here who have never used an Android, iOS, or WP7 device extensively but act as if they are informed. They aren't.

    This is why I don't just go to a carrier store and walk out wiht a device. Before you make a sale, you might se me 5+ times spending 1+ hours in the store just playing with the phone, pissing off other potential customers who want to see it in the process :P

    It is good to be platform agnostic.

    I'm not the most optimist person on the internet, but I'm equally pessimistic towards every platform I [have] used. They all get a fair shot with me, unless it's coming form a company like Samsung who can't code their way out of a wet paper bag with terrible customer support.
    The salesperson should not assume the customer is not informed.

    If the customer requests a specific brand, that is what the salesperson should offer.

    If I ask for comparisons between different Lenovo laptops, I would not want to be shown Asus laptops.

    Or if I ask for comparisons between different LG refrigerators, I would not want to be shown Frigidaire models.
    Blackberry_boffin likes this.
    09-24-11 02:12 PM
  10. Guatiao's Avatar
    Same thing happened to me at T-Mobile and Sprint... AFTER showing my 9700 AND stating that I was only interested in a new BlackBerry.

    Pushing Android much?
    09-24-11 02:13 PM
  11. 8lackberry8's Avatar
    OP - a bit too dramatic. Why ask for help choosing between a full touchscreen device (9850) and one with a physical keyboard (9930) if you prefer a virtual keyboard and touchscreen? If I had choice of Torch 9850/60 or plethora of Androids, I would pick androids because at this point, they are better all touchscreen devices - but because I want a proper BlackBerry, I have the 9930. Salesperson did the right thing by introducing you to the Androids - he wasn't aware of YOUR agenda. Going into a store to test the salespeople is not the way to gauge whether or not your investment in RIMM is sound. You can not tell by your experience how well OS 7 devices are selling to those who need a stripped down ultra efficient and productive communications device - just wait for the next earnings release.
    09-24-11 02:25 PM
  12. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    The salesperson should not assume the customer is not informed.

    If the customer requests a specific brand, that is what the salesperson should offer.

    If I ask for comparisons between different Lenovo laptops, I would not want to be shown Asus laptops.

    Or if I ask for comparisons between different LG refrigerators, I would not want to be shown Frigidaire models.
    Your analogy is stupid.

    And the salesman's job is to inform the customer. I didn't say the saleman should assume anything. I simply stated that "the customer is right" is wrong to assume, in a round-about way. And it is... You know, they used to say Earth was flat...

    Going on with stupid analogies... It's like a salesman selling someone an eMachines because they walked in saying "I came to look at eMachines" and saying they want to play First-Person Shooters on the computer.

    In that case I thoroughly expect the salesman to say "Let's have a look at our Alienware models." Anything short of that expectation, is idiotic.

    "Big Screens" to a Blackberry user used to 2.4-3.2" screens MAY be 3.7". But that's small, when there are 4.5-5.3" screens on Android devices.

    It's not like he was pushing her a Droid Pro in place of a Bold, and it's not like he was rude, biased, or obnoxious in the way he went about what he did. If he was, then I'm sure the OP would have blown that out of proportion as well... Kudos to him/her for honesty on that part, though :P
    Last edited by N8ter; 09-24-11 at 02:31 PM.
    pantlesspenguin likes this.
    09-24-11 02:27 PM
  13. Rickroller's Avatar
    It's not like he had a lot of options to show you when you went in there. IMO he would have been doing customers a disservice ONLY showing you one touchscreen/virtual kb device (since that is all BB has to offer..out of 2 phones..).

    By offering Android, he wasn't trying to lure you back to a van offering candy..he was offering other alternatives..which some people DO appreciate.
    pantlesspenguin likes this.
    09-24-11 03:43 PM
  14. gordongr's Avatar
    BlackBerry is no longer a big-name player in the eyes of most consumers. Steve was just trying to show you what they had to offer that fits your needs, instead of getting mad you should have been thankful.
    he never said he was interested in looking at the big name players, he said he was checking out the berries, there was already a BB in front of them to fit his needs, Steve was trying to steer him away from what he was interested in and toward what Steve was interested in selling
    09-24-11 10:23 PM
  15. industrial revolution's Avatar
    I went into a VZW retailer this week expressing interest in the 9930. Two of the girls working literally rolled their eyes and one said, "ugh, blackberry". Ignoring them, I kept checking out the 9930. One of them then asked why I was interested in the 9930, and I told her because of the keyboard. Both sales people then proceeded to try and talk me into a droid pro and various other physical keyboard phones, none of which were bb's. I left and ordered mine online. Screw 'em.
    09-25-11 12:16 AM
  16. southlander's Avatar
    I went into a VZW retailer this week expressing interest in the 9930. Two of the girls working literally rolled their eyes and one said, "ugh, blackberry". Ignoring them, I kept checking out the 9930. One of them then asked why I was interested in the 9930, and I told her because of the keyboard. Both sales people then proceeded to try and talk me into a droid pro and various other physical keyboard phones, none of which were bb's. I left and ordered mine online. Screw 'em.
    A Droid Pro vs. the Bold 9930 for keyboard quality? Now that is truly a laugh. I think I would have busted out laughing in their faces.
    09-25-11 02:29 AM
  17. dalton4L's Avatar
    Doesn't really matter whether or not Blackberry is a big name player or not, this is a classic example where the salesman is NOT listening to what the customer wants. The salesman's only job is to close the deal and get the new contract or contract extension. If the customer is drooling over a BlackBerry, the salesman should do the best at overcoming the customer objections and sell the phone that the customer wants right on the spot!
    As a salesman you should expect that you're talking to customers who don't know a whole lot about phones and are therefore devoid of subjective decisions. With that in mind, offering Android phones over BlackBerry -- especially for someone who likes touchscreens -- makes sense because, let's be honest, HTC, Samsung, et cetera are popular, the specs are better, a lot of people like the Android OS, and Android and most of its phone manufacturers are innovating more than RIM.


    he never said he was interested in looking at the big name players, he said he was checking out the berries, there was already a BB in front of them to fit his needs, Steve was trying to steer him away from what he was interested in and toward what Steve was interested in selling
    I never said he said that; as a salesperson at a major U.S. cell phone carrier company, your job is sell phones that will most likely please the customers and get customers on contract, and although the choice as to which phones are the best may be subjective, it is the job of the usually better smartphone-educated salesperson to help customers who are assumed -- rightfully so -- to not know as much as them. By saying you're looking at a certain phone, you are not saying "I'm looking at this phone, and this phone only."
    Last edited by dalton4L; 09-25-11 at 02:53 AM.
    09-25-11 02:48 AM
  18. NursingNinja's Avatar
    They do try to push the android brand these days but I dont think its a specifically anti berry stance. Android is open source and gives carriers more direct control over the phone, hence the bloatware. I dont think its necessarily a directive to sell them but rather the preference trickles down through their worksite culture.
    09-25-11 07:31 AM
  19. Chrisy's Avatar
    I don't understand why anyone here would even be talking to salesmen. Here's how it goes when I go to a store to check out a device:

    Salesperson: can I help you.
    Me: no thanks, just browsing.
    Salesperson: let me know if you have any questions.

    Me: k. (That's where the eye contact ends, as I was only being polite and friendly, and I don't need them)

    Then I go about my business and play with the phones and tabs til my heart is content. Once in a while the salesperson may check in again asking if I need help.

    Me: no, I'm good.

    I don't make eye contact as I'm looking at the devices, I don't ask questions because I've already researched, I don't engage in chit chat about phones because I don't care what they prefer.

    The silence in the store is deafening. Lol. Then I either leave and order online, or as was the case with my Thunderbolt, I go to the counter and say:

    Me: I'm upgrading to the...insert device here...
    Salesperson: ok, great, let me check your account. Ok, great, looks like you're eligible for...etc etc.

    I can't believe that anyone would be so hassled and allow themselves to be pressured, bullied or upset over salespeople. They are doing theory job.

    One never once had a bad experience at a VZW or ATT store. All my encounters go the same.
    Last edited by chrisy520; 09-25-11 at 08:06 AM.
    09-25-11 08:03 AM
  20. howarmat's Avatar
    They do try to push the android brand these days but I dont think its a specifically anti berry stance. Android is open source and gives carriers more direct control over the phone, hence the bloatware. I dont think its necessarily a directive to sell them but rather the preference trickles down through their worksite culture.
    bloatware is bloatware and it goes on all devices (except iphone pretty much) Many of the same apps are on BB and androids alike. Android has more because there are more companies making apps for that platform over BB
    09-25-11 08:36 AM
  21. TgeekB's Avatar
    I don't understand why anyone here would even be talking to salesmen. Here's how it goes when I go to a store to check out a device:

    Salesperson: can I help you.
    Me: no thanks, just browsing.
    Salesperson: let me know if you have any questions.

    Me: k. (That's where the eye contact ends, as I was only being polite and friendly, and I don't need them)

    Then I go about my business and play with the phones and tabs til my heart is content. Once in a while the salesperson may check in again asking if I need help.

    Me: no, I'm good.
    That is exactly how it goes for me also when I go into AT&T. In fact, some of them know me now and just let me browse. I let them know I have done my research and am just trying out the device. They don't harass me at all. I don't care what they may be pushing that day, get the device I want, and have never let it bother me or lose sleep over it.
    Chrisy likes this.
    09-25-11 08:45 AM
  22. LisaOnline's Avatar
    I'm always surprised at the angry 'Sales person does not love Blackberry, why? why?' posts I see around here.

    These sales people are not RIM employees, they are just people who sell phones. Like it or not, Android dominates and the sales person probably has some kind of Samsung Galaxy Z 4000 Double Plus in his pocket already and the requirements listed sound more like an android phone (which do have large though blurry screens).
    southlander likes this.
    09-25-11 11:39 AM
  23. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    I don't understand why anyone here would even be talking to salesmen. Here's how it goes when I go to a store to check out a device:

    Salesperson: can I help you.
    Me: no thanks, just browsing.
    Salesperson: let me know if you have any questions.

    Me: k. (That's where the eye contact ends, as I was only being polite and friendly, and I don't need them)

    Then I go about my business and play with the phones and tabs til my heart is content. Once in a while the salesperson may check in again asking if I need help.

    Me: no, I'm good.

    I don't make eye contact as I'm looking at the devices, I don't ask questions because I've already researched, I don't engage in chit chat about phones because I don't care what they prefer.

    The silence in the store is deafening. Lol. Then I either leave and order online, or as was the case with my Thunderbolt, I go to the counter and say:

    Me: I'm upgrading to the...insert device here...
    Salesperson: ok, great, let me check your account. Ok, great, looks like you're eligible for...etc etc.

    I can't believe that anyone would be so hassled and allow themselves to be pressured, bullied or upset over salespeople. They are doing theory job.

    One never once had a bad experience at a VZW or ATT store. All my encounters go the same.
    I basically do the same thing as you.

    When the Motorola Atrix was new, I stopped at an AT&T store and asked to see one. The salesman put a battery in it and left me alone to play with it for 45 minutes. I even posted on CB from the Atrix.

    When I was done, I said "thank you" and left.

    They didn't even try to sell the device to me.
    09-25-11 12:26 PM
  24. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    Save yourself the grief. Go in with your earbuds in your ear and your music volume on max. If they come near you, pretend you don't hear them, and just keep looking at phones.

    That usually works when I'm not in the mood for social interaction, but don't wanna mis my "go play with phones in the carrier store" appointment.

    If they're really bad, I play with my second phone while I'm listening to music, ignoring them... That usually drives the point home quickly.
    09-25-11 12:32 PM
  25. Jaguarr40's Avatar
    I guess he could have mentioned the Torch too. When I think of large screen and virtual keyboards I also think of Android phones.

    Horrible truth and ruined your day...Little dramatic, but ok.
    lol , Chrisy you saved me a post as I was just going to say the same thing about why not mention the new Torch with Virtual Keyboard and large Scrren as well as Andriods and all would have been well. He then would have had a choice of what he liked and something new.
    09-25-11 01:27 PM
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