1. WheresYourTowel's Avatar
    My wife just got a brand new 8520 from Rogers. I have a 9700, also from Rogers, which I really enjoy.

    When I'm at home, my 9700 flips over to WiFi for BIS services, the little icon turns white, all is good.

    When my wife's new 8520 connects to our home WiFi, the icon does not turn white, and when she uses Apps, email, or the Internet Browser (not the Hotspot Browser) it uses the Rogers mobile network instead of the WiFi, thus consuming her data plan allotment.

    All the network connectivity is working properly. She gets a good IP, can resolve domain names, including blackberry.net. In the WiFi diagnostics however, no address is populated for Blackberry Infrastructure, and the connection field simply says "Error".

    She kept getting the runaround from Rogers, telling her to reinstall her OS, which she did, and that they're currently doing a system update, and can't bring up her account, so I called them myself.

    I was told that she has to use her Mobile Network connection to access any BIS services, including Email, the regular Internet Browser, and all applications. I pressed for a reason why, especially considering my 9700 works just fine with the exact same set up on our end. After I asked several times for an explanation, the CSR told me it was because the my Bold is running 5.0 and the Curve is running 4.6. He said that there are no plans to upgrade 8520 users to 5.0 in the near future. I asked if the Curve would run 5.0, and he said that 4.6 was the most up-to-date OS for the 8520 available from the manufacturer. Of course, we know that other carriers have pushed 5.0 out to their 85XX customers already, so I really started to suspect this was all a bunch of excuses.

    So, the question is, does anyone successfully use an 8520 for BIS over WiFi? Also, does this explanation sound plausable? It seems pretty underhanded to sell a phone, lauding it as WiFi capable, talking up the apps, and then force users to chew through their data plans if they want to use those apps, regardless of their WiFi connection.
    05-16-10 07:30 PM
  2. kwkid's Avatar
    Sounds somewhat suspect. I would upgrade to the 5.0 and see what happens and then if it is still an issue, point out to Rogers that it isn't an OS issue at all.
    05-16-10 07:48 PM
  3. diegonei's Avatar
    I must point that not all apps are designed to work with Wi-Fi, even if you got everything working as it should. Some will only work over the network

    Just tested some I have here:

    Wi-Fi able
    LinkedIn, PayPal, Ultra Podcast Player, BOLT, Twitter (by RIM), Navita Translator, Dictionary.com, UpVise, Google Sync

    BIS (networkd only)
    AppWorld, SugarSync, Google Maps, Windows Live Messanger, iSkoot

    As far as I know, facebook and gtalk also need the network enabled to work amd won't go over Wi-Fi.
    05-16-10 08:07 PM
  4. WheresYourTowel's Avatar
    I understand that not all apps are capable of using WiFi directly, and require a BIS connection, however on my 9700, I can turn off my connection to the carrier's mobile network and use apps, including facebook, messenger, etc... using only my WiFi connection. It's unclear if this is a 5.0 feature, or some difference in the way my BIS account is set up when compared to my wife's.
    05-16-10 08:12 PM
  5. diegonei's Avatar
    But BIS accounts are all the same. There are no real tweaking past adding emails and filters...

    Have you re-sent the service books?
    05-16-10 08:16 PM
  6. WheresYourTowel's Avatar
    I've used 'Register Now', successfully from the WiFi HRT, but I'm not sure if it resent them. The rogers BIS site doesn't seem to have an option to do it manually.
    05-16-10 08:27 PM
  7. WheresYourTowel's Avatar
    Ahah! Putting my SIM in my wife's device results in a pretty white WiFi icon, and app connectivity, while still using 4.6.
    05-16-10 08:30 PM
  8. diegonei's Avatar
    In app: Go to the Email Wizard and login. Menu > Service Books > Send Service Books.

    On the BIS Site: Log in and go Help, then Re-send Service books.

    Everything is working on her phone with your SIM?

    Ok, I'm curious.

    EDIT: You know, you could set her phone on your BIS account and have it get the service books from there. Might be plain a stupid idea, but we never know...

    If your SIM is making everything work it might mean her SIM is hooked to the wrong plan... Keep us posted!
    Last edited by diegonei; 05-16-10 at 08:43 PM.
    05-16-10 08:34 PM
  9. WheresYourTowel's Avatar
    I'm doing a 5.0 upgrade to the Curve now. I just had a very frustrating conversation with a different Rogers CSR.

    I explained that using my SIM in her device worked perfectly and allowed me to reach BIS using her phone.

    He essentially ignored this information and told me she could only browse the internet using WiFi and everything else had to be done via the carrier's network. I explained that I could turn the mobile network connection off on my phone and still have access to BBM, etc through WiFi and he told me that was impossible.

    I'm very tempted to just have her return this phone to the store and go with another carrier.

    The CSR was very careful not to call me a liar while he told me I was lying.
    05-16-10 09:02 PM
  10. diegonei's Avatar
    I'm very tempted to just have her return this phone to the store and go with another carrier.
    Meaning you both liked the 8520 right?

    Still, did you try the service books? If you didn't, please try when you finish updating.
    05-16-10 09:30 PM
  11. WheresYourTowel's Avatar
    She loves the 8520. Her phone doesn't seem to want to take the 5.0 upgrade, doesn't seem to want to grab it during the first reboot. In any case I tried resending the service books, got the message in her inbox, and it still doesn't appear to be working. I'm running out of ideas.

    It's really frustrating when the technical support staff ignore the facts you're telling them. Not once did any of them check to ensure her data plan was properly configured. They just keep trying to tell me it's our router, or that what I want to accomplish is impossible, despite the fact that all these things are the same and work fine on my device.

    A nice strong cup of coffee is in order, or maybe a beer.
    05-16-10 09:36 PM
  12. diegonei's Avatar
    Who said they don't get trained?? They are trained to behave the way they do! They are like that everywhere! Such standatization demands training...

    Try setting your BIS account on her phone (change you BIS to her PIN/IMEI) and send the service books, see if that helps.

    I'm running out of ideas as well...
    Last edited by diegonei; 05-16-10 at 10:07 PM.
    05-16-10 10:05 PM
  13. WheresYourTowel's Avatar
    To summarize what's going on now, my wife has decided to live with it as is for the time being. I spoke with yet another CSR last night, who was much more helpful. At least she didn't try and BS her way out of it. She said there must be a difference in the plans my wife and I have. She looked at both of our plans and couldn't tell me what the difference was, just that they are very different.

    This made some small amount of sense, as my account is a business account through my employer, but I still disagree with the way they are selling the 8520, suggesting that using home wifi is a viable way to conserve your data plan.

    If you aren't using your blackberry for apps at home, what exactly are you using it for? If I wanted to browse the web on my home network, I, and I'll suggest most people, will use my PC, not my phone.

    Not allowing people who have a full-blown data plan to use their wifi for BIS dependent applications seems like an underhanded way to try and push people into larger data plans. I intend to gather a few more facts, and hopefully anecdotes from other 8520 users, and write Rogers requesting an explanation. It may not accomplish much, but I might feel a little better.
    05-17-10 06:26 PM
  14. diegonei's Avatar
    So you actually have BES and not BIS. Wonder if it's an IT policy making you able to use Wi-Fi for everything...

    Well, most of the apps being developed now do support Wi-Fi, even from RIM. Their Twitter and LinkedIn apps go Wi-Fi no problem. I remember I managed to get BBM 5.0 going over Wi-Fi as well and I thought I couldn't (but I was already on BIS, so the service books allowing me to must have been there).

    But really, most of the other apps will just go to BIS/BES and crawl since they don't make use of Wi-Fi. :/
    05-17-10 09:00 PM
  15. WheresYourTowel's Avatar
    We don't have BES at work, at least not to my knowledge. We use our company domain's email with the Rogers BIS server. In any case, it matters not, for we have achieved...

    Victory!... I think?

    Today, the 8520 magically turned it's WiFi icon white and started working properly. My wife was able to turn her mobile network off and use BBM, the Facebook app, and the normal BB Internet Browser without any issues.

    I can only assume that despite never managing to get escalated to 2nd tier support, the *5* phone calls we made regarding this issue had some effect, or a more competent person caught some misconfiguration of her account which was set up on the weekend.

    I guess the lesson to learn here is that their technical support staff would rather make up reasons your device's incorrect behavior is to be expected than actually help. I urge anyone who's told that they *must* use their data plan (provided they actually have one) when they have a WiFi connection, question it thoroughly.
    05-18-10 06:04 PM