01-23-11 10:38 AM
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  1. mmagda's Avatar
    As per the title, this isn't aimed to be a rant, but more-so an account of mine through MANY, many blackberries.

    I loved my BB's, i was the one that would curse out all other phones claiming and hailing BB as the 'king'.

    Now, i am hoping to get a realistic debate going here, not a pissing match between Android/Apple & BB users.

    So it all stems from my early RIM user days.

    I've had Curves, pearls, bolds, all of them - less the garbage 'storms' and the recent Torch [but i've used it]. Just the other day I sold my bold 9000, the 'new' owner calls me the same day to tell me the screen goes white at random. He was angry since it was a gift for his son, and the phone was fine for me. How did my 2+ year old beat to **** iPhone 3G survive as long as it did when a bold 9000 in perfect shape and taken care of won't live past day 401 of its existence?

    Anyways, i used all the early gen. stuff like the 8100, 83xx, and even the 8900 was by far my favorite-est product made by RIM.

    Then came along a few Bold's. Holy Heck where are these 'engineers'??

    Seriously, build quality was great, in the 9000 and the 9700 is very debatable with the cheap bezels & trackpads.

    Just take a 'click and look' thru the 9700 subforum on here [not to mention the 9000 & storm sections]. Its is a mere coincidence than majority of the threads pertain to hardware, and software issues? And not the typically expected threads along the lines of 'how do i use my trackpad? Or set a profile?'.

    I'm seriously thinking RIM has been falling behind the curve of other smartphone manufacturers and has genuinely rushed their products for the sake of launching something so we can have something new to use.

    As mentioned, grounds for my harsh criticism of RIM, is not from the usability or form-factor standpoint, but from horrible [i assume] quality control.

    There is NO REASON a 450$+ phone should 'not work' when plugged into the charger, have a white screen, have a loose bezel/trackpad, delayed emails, not receiving data, app errors, freezing up camera's, etc. The list goes on & on with the numerous threads on here.

    For my sake and their sake i hope they get their 'ish together so i can actually consider another blackberry [after giving up on 3x 9000's and 2x 9700's] in the next year or two. RIM was awesome with the 8700 series, those phones wouldn't die and 9/10 times they'd survive an encounter with snow & whatever! Where is the 'current' 8700 in the RIM lineup is what i'd like to know?

    Thoughts? Or am I crazy for suggesting such a thing?!
    K Bear and JoelTruckerDude like this.
    01-21-11 03:12 PM
  2. lssanjose's Avatar
    I think you hit on something here. My old boss's BlackBerry 87xx is what she's called the perfect phone, despite its datedness. Enter things like the Storm; latter-day Curve, and Bold models; and you'll get some users with a horror story. Especially with the storm, one has to wonder why they're having a hard time tightening the loose ends the device had upon release. When I had my Storm 2, I'd eye any new updates possibly making my device a little faster, or more functional. But, as the updates got newer, and newer, things started falling apart: mainly, Open GL after every release post-713.
    01-21-11 05:06 PM
  3. howarmat's Avatar
    I think part of it could be that it became more popular with consumers too. If a business issues 100 BB Bolds to its employees and 10 of them have bad hardware issues the user simply goes back to the IT dept and gets a replacement. They dont lose but maybe an hour of their time and the IT just ships them back to RIM and gets a credit and or more phones. Consumers are different. RIM stepped into that world and cosumers will hold RIM and/or their service provider more accountable of their short comings in a much more vocal manner. Normally they purchase the device from their money so it means a **** of alot more, plus they are stuck for 2 years with it for many people.

    I have to agree though many people have stated the build quality has gone down quite a bit in the last 3 years for RIM phones. I hope the new batch they have coming is better and brings back the joy that many of us had with our BBs that we no longer have
    Jaguarr40 likes this.
    01-21-11 05:15 PM
  4. Jaguarr40's Avatar
    I think part of it could be that it became more popular with consumers too. If a business issues 100 BB Bolds to its employees and 10 of them have bad hardware issues the user simply goes back to the IT dept and gets a replacement. They dont lose but maybe an hour of their time and the IT just ships them back to RIM and gets a credit and or more phones. Consumers are different. RIM stepped into that world and cosumers will hold RIM and/or their service provider more accountable of their short comings in a much more vocal manner. Normally they purchase the device from their money so it means a **** of alot more, plus they are stuck for 2 years with it for many people.

    I have to agree though many people have stated the build quality has gone down quite a bit in the last 3 years for RIM phones. I hope the new batch they have coming is better and brings back the joy that many of us had with our BBs that we no longer have
    Hey Matt
    First off I have to say that this post is more then you have posted all week in way more posts all over CB...lol

    Also what batch? Did they name a whole bunch of new devices we don't know about besides Playbook?

    I do however agree with all you are saying though for sure and well made points.

    Here I have been pretty vocal myself about going Android in a month when my upgrade comes up and as I think of my 2 year old Tour(Original one I bought) at launch and I have never had one problem and up to date on the latest VZW OS I am asking myself why I am thinking again of a new phone that does everything I want with the apps I have for both business and pleasure.

    Yes I like many wish I had another BB muce better than the one I have especially in the browser dept. meaning better and larger screen.

    I am not going to switch carriers just because someone else does have a different BB and I am amazed that every day I log on there is a new thread about this same subject with just a new title, When is it going to stop> I think darn near everyone has voiced their opinion already and I don't mind it but going over the same topic and different forms is getting old already. RIM is RIM and they have their own timetable that none of us can do anything about so we either switch or not and get over it already.

    Sorry about the long post but I don't seem to get the same responses to mine as most of the rest of you so they are longer. I am not trying to build post counts....

    Peace all!
    01-21-11 05:41 PM
  5. BayouBengal21's Avatar
    Anytime products are mass produced you are going to have issues. Its the world we live in. All companies are manufacturing their products the cheapest way possible. The build quality has probably suffered a bit due to RIM having to manufacture so many more devices. Every company has issues. My buddies wife went through 3 droid x's until she got a good one. Does it mean Motorola sucks? No, it just means they sell them as fast as they can make them which means quality control will suffer.
    01-21-11 05:45 PM
  6. howarmat's Avatar
    Hey Matt
    First off I have to say that this post is more then you have posted all week in way more posts all over CB...lol

    Also what batch? Did they name a whole bunch of new devices we don't know about besides Playbook?
    the new batch being those with finally updated specs and running QNX..none of that soft azz OS 6.1 stuff
    Last edited by howarmat; 01-21-11 at 05:48 PM.
    01-21-11 05:46 PM
  7. lssanjose's Avatar
    the new batch being those with finally updated specs and running QNX..none of that soft azz OS 6.1 stuff
    Word......
    01-21-11 05:48 PM
  8. sleepngbear's Avatar
    I think you're all on crack. RIM isn't going anywhere. ALL devices that are more complicated than a pencil have somebody somewhere complaining about something about them. No mass-manufacturing process is 100% flawless. Defects happen. In some cases it's a poor design from the outset; RIM certainly has a few of these, but nothing of the magnitude of, say, the Kin. Good companies with otherwise solid product lines figure out how to work through it. I mean, Apple survuved Antenna-gate relatively unscathed. RiM is still thriving despite Storm 1. Nokia on the other hand, not so much. And you see the problems MS is having regaining traction in the mobile market.

    I do sympathize with anyone who ends up with a lemon, and that can certainly sour one's opinion os a company (no pun intended ... Ok, maybe a little pun). You also have to remember that, if you're gaging your opinion on what youy see in public message forums, you're never going to see someone post about the incredibly solid bezel on their phone. I've had 3 BB's in the last 5 years, and every one has been absolutely sollid, not the least of which being this Torch. I think there's a whole lot more BB users that feel that way than don't. I guarantee you every other phone maker has its share of users with issues as well. As long as the balance stays favorable, they'll all be around for quite some time.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-21-11 05:49 PM
  9. lssanjose's Avatar
    I think you're all on crack. RIM isn't going anywhere. ALL devices that are more complicated than a pencil have somebody somewhere complaining about something about them. No mass-manufacturing process is 100% flawless. Defects happen. In some cases it's a poor design from the outset; RIM certainly has a few of these, but nothing of the magnitude of, say, the Kin. Good companies with otherwise solid product lines figure out how to work through it. I mean, Apple survuved Antenna-gate relatively unscathed. RiM is still thriving despite Storm 1. Nokia on the other hand, not so much. And you see the problems MS is having regaining traction in the mobile market.

    I do sympathize with anyone who ends up with a lemon, and that can certainly sour one's opinion os a company (no pun intended ... Ok, maybe a little pun).

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    On a light note, I gave up my crack for assimilation: Data was right - resistance was futile.

    On a more serious note, I agree with the inevitability of bad batches ending up in the hands of potential users. It is a fact of mass distribution life such will happen. But, it's up to the user to spot, and bring to attention, the defects he or she finds.
    01-21-11 05:52 PM
  10. Jaguarr40's Avatar
    the new batch being those with finally updated specs and running QNX..none of that soft azz OS 6.1 stuff
    Knowing you and reading alot of your posts this week in many threads I thought you meant that but was just messing with ya ya know. I just wish RIM would look hard at what they are doing and really look at how their source of sales(whethere personal or business) and give us what we are asking for.
    01-21-11 05:55 PM
  11. ThaGeNeCySt's Avatar
    I've only owned 1 Blackberry... the 9700.. but the only quality issue I had with it was the screen having a color leak when i pushed down on the lock button at the top, but it was fine otherwise. Felt solid to me. I figured that was the case for other Blackberry's in the same class. But I don't think "Quality" issues will be their demise... I don't even see a demise coming.


    My reason for ditching it was because for the price and how I used it, it wasn't nearly worth it for me... I only had my gmail synced, BBM became boring (except the group i was in, I do miss them lol), the apps weren't all that (except BeBuzz and BeWeather - great products), and the browser was very meh.
    01-21-11 06:01 PM
  12. ljfong's Avatar
    RIM is far from its demise, for as long as it doesn't go the path Palm took. To be on its way to a true demise, RIM would have to make one strategic mistake, one after another, compounding with one another. Palm again, is the best example of a tech company, a pioneer who made so many strategic mistakes, so many that Engadget had a few open letters in the past pointing out the mistakes one by one.
    01-21-11 06:39 PM
  13. lssanjose's Avatar
    I'll have to take a look at that letter, if it's in public space. I'd like to know what those are. You do learn a lot from failure - even though it's not a rosy way of learning.
    01-21-11 06:41 PM
  14. K Bear's Avatar
    As per the title, this isn't aimed to be a rant, but more-so an account of mine through MANY, many blackberries.

    I loved my BB's, i was the one that would curse out all other phones claiming and hailing BB as the 'king'.

    Now, i am hoping to get a realistic debate going here, not a pissing match between Android/Apple & BB users.

    So it all stems from my early RIM user days.

    I've had Curves, pearls, bolds, all of them - less the garbage 'storms' and the recent Torch [but i've used it]. Just the other day I sold my bold 9000, the 'new' owner calls me the same day to tell me the screen goes white at random. He was angry since it was a gift for his son, and the phone was fine for me. How did my 2+ year old beat to **** iPhone 3G survive as long as it did when a bold 9000 in perfect shape and taken care of won't live past day 401 of its existence?

    Anyways, i used all the early gen. stuff like the 8100, 83xx, and even the 8900 was by far my favorite-est product made by RIM.

    Then came along a few Bold's. Holy Heck where are these 'engineers'??

    Seriously, build quality was great, in the 9000 and the 9700 is very debatable with the cheap bezels & trackpads.

    Just take a 'click and look' thru the 9700 subforum on here [not to mention the 9000 & storm sections]. Its is a mere coincidence than majority of the threads pertain to hardware, and software issues? And not the typically expected threads along the lines of 'how do i use my trackpad? Or set a profile?'.

    I'm seriously thinking RIM has been falling behind the curve of other smartphone manufacturers and has genuinely rushed their products for the sake of launching something so we can have something new to use.

    As mentioned, grounds for my harsh criticism of RIM, is not from the usability or form-factor standpoint, but from horrible [i assume] quality control.

    There is NO REASON a 450$+ phone should 'not work' when plugged into the charger, have a white screen, have a loose bezel/trackpad, delayed emails, not receiving data, app errors, freezing up camera's, etc. The list goes on & on with the numerous threads on here.

    For my sake and their sake i hope they get their 'ish together so i can actually consider another blackberry [after giving up on 3x 9000's and 2x 9700's] in the next year or two. RIM was awesome with the 8700 series, those phones wouldn't die and 9/10 times they'd survive an encounter with snow & whatever! Where is the 'current' 8700 in the RIM lineup is what i'd like to know?

    Thoughts? Or am I crazy for suggesting such a thing?!
    You describe the reasons I ditched my 9700.
    01-21-11 07:34 PM
  15. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    As someone who oversees 100+ devices, I've gotta say we've seen very few quality issues with the more recent phones. Not anything more than we saw in the 87XX, 88xx and 83xx days.
    01-21-11 07:40 PM
  16. radimus's Avatar
    The 8700 was indeed a tank of a Blackberry, but fragileness and quality issues were a given considering the direction of the market. People voted with their wallets and wanted smaller devices with more features, but don't want to pay more for them. Something had to give, and RIM isn't the only one in this predicament.

    In my own device history the only one I've had to get replaced under warranty has been the 9700, and twice at that for phone audio problems. I've only actually killed two devices. A 6210 by dropping it on the job dial, and a 9700 by cracking the screen. In between I've had a 7280, 7780, 8700, and a 9000. Dropped each of them plenty, but they all they had to show for it were cosmetic issues.
    01-21-11 08:43 PM
  17. SevereDeceit's Avatar
    You would be amazed at the control a carrier has over the manufacturer...
    01-21-11 08:46 PM
  18. mmagda's Avatar
    You describe the reasons I ditched my 9700.
    Good to know.... which enforces my point - sort of.

    It'd be nice if there was a way to get a survey going, since CB doesn't *truly* represent the whole of RIM's demographics.

    But from what i see there is far more 'problem' related threads in the last three years worth of devices, than those 'ancient ones'.

    I mean, if anyone can answer the following. How much more reliable was your Pearl 81xx, Curve 83xx, 8800 than a far more recent 9x00/8900??

    I think this would in fact demonstrate my point very clearly, those old devices [from what i see and noticed amongst my friends and local forums] were far more reliable and would fire up problem-free today, 4+ years later!

    None of this app-error, SOS, sim failure, junk keyboards.

    Then again, i must not blaim RIM entirely... it's gotta be hard going up against Apple to reintroduce and launch a product that tries to be trendier and 'cooler' than their iPhone competition. Which would explain the horrid apps and often 'weird' designs. IE. my 8800 & 9000 were the best keyboards i've ever used... All others felt 'different'. But the market demanded smaller sizes, nicer screen resolutions, etc.

    As someone who oversees 100+ devices, I've gotta say we've seen very few quality issues with the more recent phones. Not anything more than we saw in the 87XX, 88xx and 83xx days.
    Interesting...
    01-21-11 08:51 PM
  19. grover5's Avatar
    Good to know.... which enforces my point - sort of.

    It'd be nice if there was a way to get a survey going, since CB doesn't *truly* represent the whole of RIM's demographics.

    But from what i see there is far more 'problem' related threads in the last three years worth of devices, than those 'ancient ones'.

    I mean, if anyone can answer the following. How much more reliable was your Pearl 81xx, Curve 83xx, 8800 than a far more recent 9x00/8900??

    I think this would in fact demonstrate my point very clearly, those old devices [from what i see and noticed amongst my friends and local forums] were far more reliable and would fire up problem-free today, 4+ years later!

    None of this app-error, SOS, sim failure, junk keyboards.

    Then again, i must not blaim RIM entirely... it's gotta be hard going up against Apple to reintroduce and launch a product that tries to be trendier and 'cooler' than their iPhone competition. Which would explain the horrid apps and often 'weird' designs. IE. my 8800 & 9000 were the best keyboards i've ever used... All others felt 'different'. But the market demanded smaller sizes, nicer screen resolutions, etc.


    Interesting...
    Seriously? I bought my 9700 in November of 2009 when it came out and I have yet to have any problems with it. I have no idea who else of the millions of buyers also had no issues. I do know you seem to be trying to discern a statistically defensible result from a sample of complainers on a blog. A blog with a high number of registered users but in no way even close to the number of actual BB users world wide. Right? I mean, what is the point here?
    01-21-11 09:06 PM
  20. avt123's Avatar
    For me, the 8330 and Bold 9000 had amazing build quality. No creaking, the trackballs never got stuck, sound quality was great, the keyboards didn't feel cheap as well as the screens didn't ripple (only if you touched the screen hard). I bought the 9000 on launch day and loved the device until the day I sold it and moved to VZW.

    I bought the 9700 through AT&T business premier program a week before the device was actually released (BP members get earlier releases). I went through 5 or 6 9700s (don't remember but it was at least 5) and couldn't find one with half decent build quality. The keyboard clicked and clacked and felt extremely cheap on 3 of them. The screen rippled if you touched the send, end, back, BB button or trackpad on 2 of them. The trackpad was basically "pushed" in on all of them. When I say "pushed" in, I mean the trackpad wasn't level or higher than the other physical keys int eh same area. That was extremely annoying especially when I found other ones with the trackpad above or level, but they had other quality problems. The bezel on all of the creaked for me. Maybe it was because I had the first batch, but I still find that completely unacceptable. Even my AT&T rep said a lot of people were complaining about the quality of the device. I loved the 9700 (besides the smaller keyboard than the original Bold which I think is the best BB keyboard till this day, and the poor build quality) but couldn't deal with it. I paid full retail for the device (I believe it was $500, but it got knocked down to $200 for me) and expected quality. At the same time I also owned the iPhone 3GS (and 3G before that), and when putting the two side by side, the iPhone felt like $1 million dollars compared to the 9700. That was the moment I completely left RIM.

    I feel every BB created after the 9000 was not built as well as the older models.

    EDIT- I forgot, all my 9700s had light leaking issues as well.
    Last edited by avt123; 01-21-11 at 09:25 PM.
    01-21-11 09:21 PM
  21. SevereDeceit's Avatar
    I feel every BB created after the 9000 was not built as well as the older models.
    So do many, this is why there has been so many requests to bring the build and form factor of the 9000 back in an updated model. I agree with your statement...
    avt123 likes this.
    01-21-11 09:25 PM
  22. avt123's Avatar
    So do many, this is why there has been so many requests to bring the build and form factor of the 9000 back in an updated model. I agree with your statement...
    I have made the claim so many times that if RIM made a 9000 with updated specs (re-not 9780 specs) and a newer OS (preferably QNX), I would buy it in a heartbeat.
    SevereDeceit likes this.
    01-21-11 09:27 PM
  23. SevereDeceit's Avatar
    I have made the claim so many times that if RIM made a 9000 with updated specs (re-not 9780 specs) and a newer OS (preferably QNX), I would buy it in a heartbeat.
    Agreed. Especially on the 9780 specs.
    01-21-11 09:28 PM
  24. BlackStormRising's Avatar
    [QUOTE=lssanjose;5976320]On a light note, I gave up my crack for assimilation: Data was right - resistance was futile.

    That is just so painfully funny....
    01-21-11 09:55 PM
  25. crackcookie's Avatar
    I believe its a handful of issues.

    For one, mass production. Equivalent trade shows us that yes more people can get something, but the quality of that device will suffer. Look at Bentlys and look and Benz's.

    Bentlys don't have problems because they are hand crafted from the bottom up, from the leather steering wheel, to the carpet on the floor.

    While a Benz is nothing to shake a stick at, over years quality suffers from mass production, it just will.


    Part two, competition. Rim has a lot more competition, they have to release things faster than they want to, or else people won't want them.

    Three, nature. The more things you need to bring on a camping trip, the more likely you are to lose or forget one of them. Thats pretty simple. The more apps and features in a phone, the more problems it will have. Thats simple. Just like cars today, why is your battery draining? Is it the door was left open, lights were left on? Or did your microwave you plugged into your car use to much juice, and did your bluetooth mess up a series of circuits. Or did a fuse on your amp burn out?

    BB is releasing a new batch of phones, lets hope they take their time. Right now my 9700 is 'bricked' it has a white screen and I am trying to load an OS on it.
    01-22-11 12:49 AM
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