04-18-12 09:49 AM
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  1. lnichols's Avatar
    RIM. A superior product will not get you sales if the store reps at the carrier stores are taking people straight to the Android or iPhone sections and telling people you are going out of business. Look at the stories on this board. It is sad and you guys say you have great carrier relationships. So you need to give sales reps incentives to sell your BB10 devices when they come out. Give them cash per phone they sell. If you don't these clowns will continue to lie to potential customers. You need to build up Marketshare and a base and this will be the best way in the US.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Crackberry App!
    04-17-12 07:28 AM
  2. kbz1960's Avatar
    Don't you think a lot of it is because of no 4G? Don't carriers get more $$ off of 4G devices? Funny enough the iPhone seems to be the exception to that.
    04-17-12 07:34 AM
  3. DannyAves's Avatar
    I may be wrong but for example, I pay T-Mobile the same for a BlackBerry data plan and an Android data plan but T-Mobile has to pay a fee to BlackBerry each month to use their system therefore the carriers make more money from Android. I believe that is the reason they push the other phones
    04-17-12 07:40 AM
  4. wuulfy's Avatar
    dont you have independent retailers in the states who sell phones for various networks and dont operate on a commision basis?
    04-17-12 07:43 AM
  5. Mystic205's Avatar
    a) Salepeople push things that sell. Android and ios phones outsell BB 12:1

    b) the majority of users are (now) replacing touchscreen phones...and so less likely to desire a keyboard.

    c) If you are to promote a blackberry then you will need to spend more time explaining what it cannot do, than what it can.

    d) there is absolutely zero shock/awe/wow factor in a BB.. the 9930 is the worlds finest "so what" phone...

    Promoting and selling a phone running an obsolete o.s. that will not be updated and will be replaced from soup to nuts in a few months time is not the way for a salesman to help his customer.

    look, BB may have a superior product in your eyes, but those eyes are blind to the realities of the market and what those folks want to buy
    04-17-12 07:47 AM
  6. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    I will go further and say it is even simpler: Tech salespeople tend to sell devices that they like themselves.
    app_Developer likes this.
    04-17-12 07:58 AM
  7. Mystic205's Avatar
    there is a lot of validity to that.. the enthusiasm shines through.

    I will go further and say it is even simpler: Tech salespeople tend to sell devices that they like themselves.
    04-17-12 08:20 AM
  8. BergerKing's Avatar
    I will go further and say it is even simpler: Tech salespeople tend to sell devices that they like themselves.
    And, knowing many people, the simpler the better. 'Here, just press this here button, it takes you back to where you started......'
    04-17-12 08:38 AM
  9. sam_b77's Avatar
    Slippery slope OP.

    If RIM did that Apple and other companies would do the same. And who has deeper pockets?

    BB would stop selling in two quarters. Fighting on price and incentives is a dangerous sales strategy.
    bp3dots likes this.
    04-17-12 10:20 AM
  10. lnichols's Avatar
    a) Salepeople push things that sell. Android and ios phones outsell BB 12:1

    b) the majority of users are (now) replacing touchscreen phones...and so less likely to desire a keyboard.

    c) If you are to promote a blackberry then you will need to spend more time explaining what it cannot do, than what it can.

    d) there is absolutely zero shock/awe/wow factor in a BB.. the 9930 is the worlds finest "so what" phone...

    Promoting and selling a phone running an obsolete o.s. that will not be updated and will be replaced from soup to nuts in a few months time is not the way for a salesman to help his customer.

    look, BB may have a superior product in your eyes, but those eyes are blind to the realities of the market and what those folks want to buy
    So these stories about people going into to buy a Blackberry and carrier store reps trying to push them to something else are false? I'm not expecting someone who wants an iPhone or Droid to be steered to a BB7 device. That's not realistic. Someone coming into buy something specific is an easy sale and shouldn't be lied to to talk them out of buying what they want. My dad went into a Verizon store to buy an iPhone, he was pushed by the associated to a DroidX. He told me when he got why it was better (regurgitating sales dribble), and now that it is buggy, not working great and he's not technical enough to play with it to make it work he says he should have never have let them talk him out of the iPhone, because my mom's works perfectly.

    Also I never said RIM had a superior product, I said a superior product will not guarantee sales. I'm hopeful that BB10 will be a superior product, but I'm fully aware of where OS7 is in the grand scheme of things to most consumers, but for me and my requirement the 9900 is the best device available. As for your other Blackberry bashing sarcasms above I'm truly shocked by these based on your usually RIM positive posts on here . Perhaps one of the sister sites of Mobile Nations will provide you a more positive posting experience as hatred and negativity is no way to live life.
    Last edited by lnichols; 04-17-12 at 02:00 PM.
    04-17-12 01:52 PM
  11. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    I really have not seen what store reps recommend.

    A few months ago, I walked into an AT&T store where I had never been and just said I was looking at new smartphones. I played with a Motorola Atrix for over a half hour. The rep left me alone and did not attempt to sell me the Atrix or anything else. When I was done, I walked out.

    Last week when I upgraded, the store manager took care of me. I told him what device I wanted, and he sold it to me. I also told him I would set it up myself, so all he did was insert the SIM card. Granted, the manager knows me and knows I am tech-savvy, so he never tries to sell me anything other than what I request.
    04-17-12 02:03 PM
  12. Joltcola1234's Avatar
    the 9930 is the worlds finest "so what" phone...
    Man, that is sad, but so true.
    04-17-12 02:09 PM
  13. Mystic205's Avatar
    If someone asks to see a BB do i agree that a salesperson should direct him to Android?.. nope. But then again I dont get paid $8/hr to do as I am told...

    Quote" A superior product will not get you sales if the store reps at the carrier stores are taking people straight to the Android or iPhone sections and telling people you are going out of business"

    That statement is a direct inference that the BB is a superior phone. The market, based upon people voting with their wallet, has said that is not true.

    If you view a set of sad statements of facts about BB as being sarcastic Blackberry bashing, then I am sorry that you have a problem with the truth.. it is noted that other posters have agreed with my post and while it is harsh and sad..its the state of the world for RIM right now.

    I own and enjoy my 9930 and have no plans to even think of changing.. but none of this makes me blind to the realities of the market, its needs (not mine), and the rapid growing popularity of Android.

    So these stories about people going into to buy a Blackberry and carrier store reps trying to push them to something else are false? I'm not expecting someone who wants an iPhone or Droid to be steered to a BB7 device. That's not realistic. Someone coming into buy something specific is an easy sale and shouldn't be lied to to talk them out of buying what they want. My dad went into a Verizon store to buy an iPhone, he was pushed by the associated to a DroidX. He told me when he got why it was better (regurgitating sales dribble), and now that it is buggy, not working great and he's not technical enough to play with it to make it work he says he should have never have let them talk him out of the iPhone, because my mom's works perfectly.

    Also I never said RIM had a superior product, I said a superior product will not guarantee sales. I'm hopeful that BB10 will be a superior product, but I'm fully aware of where OS7 is in the grand scheme of things to most consumers, but for me and my requirement the 9900 is the best device available. As for your other Blackberry bashing sarcasms above I'm truly shocked by these based on your usually RIM positive posts on here . Perhaps one of the sister sites of Mobile Nations will provide you a more positive posting experience as hatred and negativity is no way to live life.
    04-17-12 05:43 PM
  14. glidewells's Avatar
    I have been in about six different Verizon stores over the last couple of weeks. Four of the stores only had a curve on display. The other two had a 9930 and 9850 and a curve. This tells me that the stores do not want to take up there real estate with the blackberries and that the partnership with RIM is not that strong. It is sad to see, because RIM does make a good product, but I think the perception is that they do not due to the backing of the carriers and the carriers persistence to push them to ios/android.
    04-17-12 05:58 PM
  15. BergerKing's Avatar
    You're not gonna be able to buy your market, you have to win your market by being better than the other makers. Put out a product that makes people go WOW!, not meh.
    04-17-12 06:29 PM
  16. iRy757's Avatar
    Man I wish we got spiffs for selling BB. I still direct the people that will utalize them properly to BB. We hardly ever hear from our RIM rep, but she did set up a BB display with the torch and bold on the left and right and a playbook in the middle with accessories on the bottom. Only one store in my district got it tho.
    Also my company is offering 9930's to managers for free on agent lines to promote them for business accounts.
    Reps just need to be trained on asking the right qualifying questions to customers instead of selling what makes the most money for them, cause if they put a customer in the wrong device for them its going to come back as a refund and they will lose a contract.
    04-17-12 06:30 PM
  17. bp3dots's Avatar
    I have been in about six different Verizon stores over the last couple of weeks. Four of the stores only had a curve on display. The other two had a 9930 and 9850 and a curve. This tells me that the stores do not want to take up there real estate with the blackberries and that the partnership with RIM is not that strong. It is sad to see, because RIM does make a good product, but I think the perception is that they do not due to the backing of the carriers and the carriers persistence to push them to ios/android.
    In most retail environments, vendors pay for, or negotiate into their distribution contracts, their space/placement.
    04-17-12 09:08 PM
  18. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I may be wrong but for example, I pay T-Mobile the same for a BlackBerry data plan and an Android data plan but T-Mobile has to pay a fee to BlackBerry each month to use their system therefore the carriers make more money from Android. I believe that is the reason they push the other phones
    The Floor reps don't give two licks about the Corporate margins for device sales.

    The Floor reps sell
    1: what gives them the highest commission
    2: what they enjoy using the most.


    as a Floor Rep, their email is not mission critical to their life, they have lots of time to play with their phones, and they are not far from a charger for extended periods of time, so Naturally a phone geared toward entertainment would draw them in first.
    iPhone and Android offer far more avenues of Entertainment than RIM can launch, really your Entertainment from a BlackBerry devices is much more dependent on how well you socialize vs how well you are amused by games as you have far fewer to find on a BlackBerry device.

    I don't think Paying US Reps would do anything.
    What RIM needs is QUALITY training for reps, REGULAR Webinar's for Reps and Consumers to log into and interact with feature explanations,
    So many Wireless floor reps don't have a clue about the advantages RIM has, they only know what RIM lacks, and they have all sorts of Missinformation, that is something RIM needs

    RIM also could do contests for Key market Key location reps for BlackBerry Swag, offering a Early release or limited edition BlackBerry to the Top BlackBerry sales person based on % volume of a store would fire up any tech geek even a non BlackBerry fan, getting limited edition or early release they know they could sell it for good coin if they don't want the prestige
    04-17-12 09:20 PM
  19. swyost's Avatar
    RIM. A superior product will not get you sales if the store reps at the carrier stores are taking people straight to the Android or iPhone sections and telling people you are going out of business. Look at the stories on this board. It is sad and you guys say you have great carrier relationships. So you need to give sales reps incentives to sell your BB10 devices when they come out. Give them cash per phone they sell. If you don't these clowns will continue to lie to potential customers. You need to build up Marketshare and a base and this will be the best way in the US.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Crackberry App!
    This assumes that a BB is a superior product. I'm sorry but it stopped being such a couple years ago. At this point it is one of a crowd and is only distinguished by 1) the fact that a lot of people think it looks dated, 2) its doesn't have the broad app ecosystem of other platforms.
    04-17-12 10:24 PM
  20. ADozenEggs@aol.com's Avatar
    When Apple launched the iPhone with Sprint in Oct. They had their own ee's positioned in some of the Spring stores here in Manhattan.

    When Samsung launches a new device they have Samsung reps in my local Best Buy.

    Until R.I.M gets it, they won't get it.
    04-17-12 10:31 PM
  21. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    When Apple launched the iPhone with Sprint in Oct. They had their own ee's positioned in some of the Spring stores here in Manhattan.

    When Samsung launches a new device they have Samsung reps in my local Best Buy.

    Until R.I.M gets it, they won't get it.

    Good comment

    Though Samsung didn't send reps, Their Distributor did,
    I know this Because Samsungs distributor is looking for a Samsung rep for my Area that will do just that.

    RIM needs to get a better distributor, OR take the helm
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    04-17-12 10:39 PM
  22. ADozenEggs@aol.com's Avatar
    Good comment

    Though Samsung didn't send reps, Their Distributor did,
    I know this Because Samsungs distributor is looking for a Samsung rep for my Area that will do just that.

    RIM needs to get a better distributor, OR take the helm
    I sincerely believe it's in their best interest to lead any initiatives, product launches, sales drives.

    They need to take a more more proactive role in their future.

    I believe, according to a stat I read in December, that Apple sells more iPhones at their brick and mortar stores(where there is a store) than through their cellular partners.

    When people have questions about Apple's products, they walk into an Apple store.

    I don't think RIM is in a position, or has the diversity of products to open stores around the U.S., but getting reps into stores can be of great benefit.
    04-17-12 11:34 PM
  23. T
    ... as a Floor Rep, their email is not mission critical to their life, they have lots of time to play with their phones, and they are not far from a charger for extended periods of time, so Naturally a phone geared toward entertainment would draw them in first

    ... really your Entertainment from a BlackBerry devices is much more dependent on how well you socialize vs how well you are amused by games ...
    Awesome analysis! As for the glorious market itself, "wow" = "baaaaaaaah."

    04-18-12 07:04 AM
  24. frisco49ers's Avatar


    c) If you are to promote a blackberry then you will need to spend more time explaining what it cannot do, than what it can.

    d) there is absolutely zero shock/awe/wow factor in a BB.. the 9930 is the worlds finest "so what" phone...
    I am just curious, in (c) explain to me exactly what a BB cannot do (with exception of facetime) that an IOS or Android phone can do.....

    Maybe if you had the correct people showing EXACTLY what can be done with the phone there would be a shock/awe/wow factor. I show people all the time the things I can do and get the "wow, I didn't know a BB could do that!" People are just misinformed IMHO.
    04-18-12 07:26 AM
  25. lnichols's Avatar
    This assumes that a BB is a superior product. I'm sorry but it stopped being such a couple years ago. At this point it is one of a crowd and is only distinguished by 1) the fact that a lot of people think it looks dated, 2) its doesn't have the broad app ecosystem of other platforms.
    No assumption, just a statement. I know that Os7 phones are not superior. I think BB10 has a definite chance to be. History is riddled with superior products that didn't pan out. And if BB10 devices are better, and in store clowns still take people over to the competition, then it won't get traction other than the base, wish has been shrinking in the US. If the base were still large then word of mouth and seeing it work in public would be enough.

    I also think that RIM should deep discount to US gov't when BB10 comes out to get them in the market and hope for the trickle out effect to contractors, then to consumer.
    04-18-12 07:28 AM
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