02-02-12 11:35 PM
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  1. Rootbrian's Avatar
    As far as I know, RIM won't die out. Some of these news or rumored articles are BS.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-08-11 09:03 PM
  2. jamesd98ca's Avatar
    There's no $ paid out on the basis of market share. The market is growing. RIM is still selling more devices than the previous quarter. You've got 2 companies making a hardware/software solution and a bunch of hardware manufacturers using software someone else is making and licensing out. Those companies are in the business of selling hardware and aren't as interested in providing a end-to-end solution. Apple and RIM have to balance the cannibalism of their own products with giving new devices. Motorola, Samsung, and the others are going to sell their newest hardware whether is in your best interest or not. Not every car needs a V-8 Hemi, but if that's your product, that's what you're going to push whether the customer really needs it or not...
    Well said -- Here's someone that finally understands.
    01-08-11 09:05 PM
  3. jamesd98ca's Avatar
    Yes for sure PK...I think anytime a great thread like this no matter who started it but the attention and response it has gotten is goingto draw a vast many different opinions that some don't like but everyone should show their intelligence on here and make things civil in their posts and leave the name calling out. It lessens whatever you have to say.
    You're a dork.
    01-08-11 09:06 PM
  4. jamesd98ca's Avatar
    RIM's going nowhere, anytime soon. All the talk of stuff being DOA is nonsense. ****, even as of a month ago, BB mobile internet usage increased to the point of surpassing the iphone to take the # 1 position in the US . This is in a market where the share is, understandably, shrinking.Given the cool stuff that's coming, I can only imagine what's in store for BB fans, as well as the rest of the world that has yet to discover BB. It's going to be pretty a pretty cool year and a fun decade for the fans and the fans-to-come!
    01-08-11 09:22 PM
  5. 1812dave's Avatar
    I assume their in the process of perfecting that PlayBook OS. I assume BlackBerry 6 will be the last of the normal BlackBerry OS and newer phones will be releases with the PlayBook OS. After the no show of the Storm 3 I'm getting the feeling that it might be what their waiting on. So in my opinion, it depends on how well the developers like the PlayBook and how many apps they make available. Without apps the PlayBook and BlackBerries with that OS are DOA.
    I concur. But people will wait just so long. I'm not waiting until summer to get a new phone. Something great needs to come from RIM real soon, or it's hasta la vista.
    01-08-11 09:33 PM
  6. pkcable's Avatar
    You're a dork.
    James,

    Are you looking for a vacation from CrackBerry? That is a ban for a few days? Lets not go that route, please give our posting rules a check, in particular, the one about Personal Attacks....

    .....from our Posting Rules & Guidelines.....

    Personal Attacks
    Do not flame, insult or post personal attacks against other users. Be courteous, not rude. Any instances or reports of harassment of members will be treated seriously. CrackBerry.com has a zero tolerance policy against this kind of behavior, which may result with an immediate temporary or permanent ban at moderators' discretion. CrackBerry.com is a friendly place - treat members with respect at all times. If you don't have something nice to say, do not say it!
    howarmat and the_sandman_454 like this.
    01-08-11 10:02 PM
  7. grncherry1's Avatar
    I assume their in the process of perfecting that PlayBook OS. I assume BlackBerry 6 will be the last of the normal BlackBerry OS and newer phones will be releases with the PlayBook OS. After the no show of the Storm 3 I'm getting the feeling that it might be what their waiting on. So in my opinion, it depends on how well the developers like the PlayBook and how many apps they make available. Without apps the PlayBook and BlackBerries with that OS are DOA.
    Motorola Xoom tablet crowned best CES gadget - Yahoo! News




    PB didn't even get an honorable mention, what does that say.
    01-08-11 10:16 PM
  8. grover5's Avatar
    shimojunk is losing ground quickly from previous highs and might be looking at an inescapable fall with no clear recovery.
    01-08-11 10:32 PM
  9. grncherry1's Avatar
    shimojunk is losing ground quickly from previous highs and might be looking at an inescapable fall with no clear recovery.
    Did I miss something in translation?????? If not, you should be ashamed.
    Last edited by grncherry1; 01-08-11 at 10:43 PM.
    01-08-11 10:41 PM
  10. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    Sorry, I won't get too technical because that would involve going off-topic, but both Telus and Bell in Canada have implemented technology that takes standard HSPA+ data speeds and doubles them, and they are the only carriers in the world currently using this technology. Just another little tidbit too, both Bell and Telus support CDMA as well as HSPA+, and a full line-up of BlackBerrys, Android devices and the iPhone, so in addition to faster networks we generally have a more comprehensive line-up, but I digress. In short, we aren't getting 4G as soon as American carriers, our HSPA+ network really is that fast.
    T-Mobile is already about to start upgrading their towers to 42mbps and IIRC they're going to go all the way up to 600+mbps in the future. There really isn't that big of an advantage.

    Also, HSPA+ devices need HSPA+ radios to get to those speeds. If the phones aren't getting released, the devices will still be speed-capped by hardware.

    That's why a Vibrant has a 7.2 mbps 3g radio, while a G2 has a 14.4 mbps hspa+ radio in it...

    If you guys get HSPA+ devices, they will be launched around the same time on the US networks with HSPA+ technology. It makes no sense to release them in a smaller market (Canada) while keeping the larger market that cares even more about the faster data speeds waiting. Actually, it's pretty dumb - in corporate terms.

    I wouldn't say they get a more comprehensive lineup. Nothing is stopping anyone here from getting an unlocked phone, and most manufacturers release almost the same phone across different carriers, anyways (Palm Pres, Blackberries minus Torch/Storm [Style isn't anything special]), Galaxy S, etc.). Apart from a few exclusives people aren't missing much.
    Last edited by N8ter; 01-08-11 at 10:59 PM.
    01-08-11 10:55 PM
  11. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    Motorola Xoom tablet crowned best CES gadget - Yahoo! News




    PB didn't even get an honorable mention, what does that say.
    It's not a game of Winner Take All
    01-08-11 11:13 PM
  12. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    It's not a game of Winner Take All
    Yes, but the notoriety helps.

    That being said, I don't expect the PB to win at anything except tethering to a BB since the RIM execs confirmed that (unlike what the website/spec sheet hinted), it will need a BB for practically any PIM functionality.
    01-08-11 11:41 PM
  13. grncherry1's Avatar
    Yes, but the notoriety helps.

    That being said, I don't expect the PB to win at anything except tethering to a BB since the RIM execs confirmed that (unlike what the website/spec sheet hinted), it will need a BB for practically any PIM functionality.
    Very true, and that is a shame. You would think they would have known better, especially with the whole world watching. Unbelievable.........
    01-08-11 11:51 PM
  14. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Yes, but the notoriety helps.

    That being said, I don't expect the PB to win at anything except tethering to a BB since the RIM execs confirmed that (unlike what the website/spec sheet hinted), it will need a BB for practically any PIM functionality.
    I still can't believe people look at the blackberry-playbook integration as a bad thing. Rim is trying to save us money and we moan?
    Besides, only the first playbook is going to work this way, the next one will be stand alone.
    Compared to wifi only tablets it has a HUGE advantage. Compared to a 3G tablet it still has a an advantage as you don't need a separate data plan (probably 350 over 2 years)
    Might not be the best tablet out there but it's the best for a blackberry user and that's all I care about.

    Why should Rim worry about other smartphone users? Does Apple do anything for blackberry users? Does Android?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by belfastdispatcher; 01-09-11 at 05:00 AM.
    01-09-11 04:51 AM
  15. Chrisy's Avatar
    They should want to target other smartphone users because BlackBerry users are dwindling fast. They are limited their audience to BlackBerry users.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-09-11 05:57 AM
  16. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    They should want to target other smartphone users because BlackBerry users are dwindling fast. They are limited their audience to BlackBerry users.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Firstly Blackberry users are going UP not down, Rim has been selling more then ever.
    Secondly they would be crazy to target other smartphones, Android already has 80 tablets announced and iphone owners tend to be very loyal to Apple products.
    If anything, their set up could attract people to the blackberry platform.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-09-11 06:08 AM
  17. the_sandman_454's Avatar
    Firstly Blackberry users are going UP not down, Rim has been selling more then ever.
    Secondly they would be crazy to target other smartphones, Android already has 80 tablets announced and iphone owners tend to be very loyal to Apple products.
    If anything, their set up could attract people to the blackberry platform.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Their growth of BB smartphone marketshare has been dramatically slowing in one of the few markets where enough people have enough disposable income to afford a luxury item like a tablet. If they don't come out with some flashy new BB devices in the US market, this trend will continue.

    This means that they've taken themselves out of the market as a whole and limited themselves to a slowly expanding, possibly soon to start shrinking marketshare as sales dwindle until new BB devices get released.

    Integration with RIM products: good. Integration with RIM products without providing any functionality with other devices: bad.
    01-09-11 06:40 AM
  18. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Their growth of BB smartphone marketshare has been dramatically slowing in one of the few markets where enough people have enough disposable income to afford a luxury item like a tablet. If they don't come out with some flashy new BB devices in the US market, this trend will continue.

    This means that they've taken themselves out of the market as a whole and limited themselves to a slowly expanding, possibly soon to start shrinking marketshare as sales dwindle until new BB devices get released.

    Integration with RIM products: good. Integration with RIM products without providing any functionality with other devices: bad.
    Fair enough but I'm not concerned with how much money will Rim make out of the playbook, if I buy a tablet I want it to be the best for me as a blackberry user. Offering some sort of integration with android or iphone at the moment could possibly compromise their security status, the playbook will be the same for corporate and consumer use after all.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-09-11 07:10 AM
  19. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Motorola Xoom tablet crowned best CES gadget - Yahoo! News




    PB didn't even get an honorable mention, what does that say.
    They keyword there is "gadget", productive tablets, laptops, netbooks etc are not gadgets.
    01-09-11 07:27 AM
  20. the_sandman_454's Avatar
    Fair enough but I'm not concerned with how much money will Rim make out of the playbook, if I buy a tablet I want it to be the best for me as a blackberry user. Offering some sort of integration with android or iphone at the moment could possibly compromise their security status, the playbook will be the same for corporate and consumer use after all.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    How much they make on it still remains a relevant concern, since if they don't make enough, would they cancel it as a product, thereby eliminating or severely limiting future support for it, and most likely eliminating future generations of the device.

    For BIS users, most of the data isn't heavily encrypted at all, so it more or less may as well not be there anyway, so there shouldn't be too much worse security risks with Apple or Android. Ignoring the business market where someone might actually put proprietary information on the device, I don't think many consumers would have an issue if it had similar security to whatever their chosen device offers.

    I am surprised they went bluetooth vs wifi though for tethering it. Then again they'd have had to equip their BB devices for wifi tethering which I guess they probably didn't want to do...

    For BES users, well it's an irrelevant concern since there won't be BES users on other platforms besides BB anyway.
    01-09-11 07:30 AM
  21. sleepngbear's Avatar
    Their growth of BB smartphone marketshare has been dramatically slowing in one of the few markets where enough people have enough disposable income to afford a luxury item like a tablet. If they don't come out with some flashy new BB devices in the US market, this trend will continue.

    This means that they've taken themselves out of the market as a whole and limited themselves to a slowly expanding, possibly soon to start shrinking marketshare as sales dwindle until new BB devices get released.

    Integration with RIM products: good. Integration with RIM products without providing any functionality with other devices: bad.
    RIM's market share is actually falling. Market share is a great number for comparing competitors, but otherwise means nothing. RIM IS expanding its presence, just not as quickly as the competition. The bottom line is that sales are still growing, and impressively. When actual year-over-year unit sales start leveling off, then it's time to worry.

    The PB's target market is not every tablet user; it's every BB user that wants/needs a tablet. What it's going to offer, as belfastdispatcher pointed out, is seamless integration with your current wireless plan and anywhere connectivity without needing a separate data plan. That's the differentiator here; it's the piece of the tablet market that RIM is carving out for itself, and it's pretty much how RIM has done business all along. Yes, they're limiting their market share potential; but at the same time they're making their product much more attractive to the target audience for that product than the competition's.
    TheScionicMan likes this.
    01-09-11 07:36 AM
  22. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    How much they make on it still remains a relevant concern, since if they don't make enough, would they cancel it as a product, thereby eliminating or severely limiting future support for it, and most likely eliminating future generations of the device.

    For BIS users, most of the data isn't heavily encrypted at all, so it more or less may as well not be there anyway, so there shouldn't be too much worse security risks with Apple or Android. Ignoring the business market where someone might actually put proprietary information on the device, I don't think many consumers would have an issue if it had similar security to whatever their chosen device offers.

    I am surprised they went bluetooth vs wifi though for tethering it. Then again they'd have had to equip their BB devices for wifi tethering which I guess they probably didn't want to do...

    For BES users, well it's an irrelevant concern since there won't be BES users on other platforms besides BB anyway.
    Well, they never had separate handsets for BES and BIS users so I'll doubt they'll start now.
    On your other point, Rim have always supported older handsets, there's still support for the old 7230 I bought off ebay for 5 a few months ago so I'm not worried about that.
    01-09-11 07:39 AM
  23. the_sandman_454's Avatar
    RIM's market share is actually falling. Market share is a great number for comparing competitors, but otherwise means nothing. RIM IS expanding its presence, just not as quickly as the competition. The bottom line is that sales are still growing, and impressively. When actual year-over-year unit sales start leveling off, then it's time to worry.

    The PB's target market is not every tablet user; it's every BB user that wants/needs a tablet. What it's going to offer, as belfastdispatcher pointed out, is seamless integration with your current wireless plan and anywhere connectivity without needing a separate data plan. That's the differentiator here; it's the piece of the tablet market that RIM is carving out for itself, and it's pretty much how RIM has done business all along. Yes, they're limiting their market share potential; but at the same time they're making their product much more attractive to the target audience for that product than the competition's.
    Really? Sales growth hasn't slowed at all in the US market since say 2007? I don't have the numbers handy, but I would be a bit shocked if it hasn't, when it transitioned from few competitors in the consumer market to many. It would be interesting to see the consumer sales broken apart from total sales as well.

    At any rate, are we absolutely sure carriers aren't going to come up with some extra charges for interfacing this thing with your BB and using your BB plan? How is it functionally any different from tethering a computer? It will still consume a fair amount of data if you use it for much of anything, compression or not.

    I could seamlessly tether any tablet with wifi capability to my Droid 2 if I wanted. Granted unless I hack the device, it would cost extra to enable wifi hotspot service, but if it costs something to do the BB tethering to the Playbook, that may offset.

    It'll be interesting to see how it shakes out I guess once all is said and done with the tethering it and whether carriers charge more for the service.
    01-09-11 07:50 AM
  24. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Really? Sales growth hasn't slowed at all in the US market since say 2007? I don't have the numbers handy, but I would be a bit shocked if it hasn't, when it transitioned from few competitors in the consumer market to many. It would be interesting to see the consumer sales broken apart from total sales as well.

    At any rate, are we absolutely sure carriers aren't going to come up with some extra charges for interfacing this thing with your BB and using your BB plan? How is it functionally any different from tethering a computer? It will still consume a fair amount of data if you use it for much of anything, compression or not.

    I could seamlessly tether any tablet with wifi capability to my Droid 2 if I wanted. Granted unless I hack the device, it would cost extra to enable wifi hotspot service, but if it costs something to do the BB tethering to the Playbook, that may offset.

    It'll be interesting to see how it shakes out I guess once all is said and done with the tethering it and whether carriers charge more for the service.
    I for example i have 500mb a month, that's for 5, if i go over that I automatically get charged another 5 and get another 500mb, that's on Vodafone UK.
    I don't see why this wouldn't work.
    Anyway, even extra charges apply, it will still be way cheaper then starting a new contract.
    01-09-11 08:01 AM
  25. the_sandman_454's Avatar
    Well, they never had separate handsets for BES and BIS users so I'll doubt they'll start now.
    On your other point, Rim have always supported older handsets, there's still support for the old 7230 I bought off ebay for 5 a few months ago so I'm not worried about that.
    I agree on that front, they never differentiated between BES/BIS on their handsets. I'm sure, however they could set up one security scheme for connecting to a BB device allowing maximum security, and one for other users without a horrible amount of difficulty. Maybe we'll see it in the future.

    Are they writing new software for your 7230 still? If not then I wouldn't really call it support so much as still offering the software it runs on for downloading.
    01-09-11 08:02 AM
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