[1812dave]

LOL you dork, that's what I said. Verizon is big, sure, and even with sales drying up there, sales are trending up for RIM, in general (at an incredible rate too).

Market share, admittedly has decreased, but sales are through the roof. So things are very, very good in RIM-land.

FYI: name calling isn't going to endear you to the reasonable folks of this forum. It makes YOU look bad, rather than your intended target.

[lieman]

Refer to the link in my above post.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

If you're going to assume iPhone will eat into BlackBerry's sales, it's only logical to assume it would also take a chunk out of Android's presence. It won't be exclusively BB users making the switch. Verizon users just wanted something different from BlackBerry and they had been limited before Android, so it makes sense some will switch, but it also makes sense that BlackBerry's presence on VZW won't dive much further than it already has.

[dutchtender]

LOL - by your measure, the disaster has already occurred -- VZ sales of BB have dropped to a very low level. Yet the slide continues to point upward. Don't get me wrong -- the comp is good. But RIM is simply growing and growing and growing...and an accelerating rate. And it's doing so with outdated tech -- imagine what enhancing the R&D staff with a supporting cast of new thinking will bring? Oh yeah -- it's been done. QNX, TAT to name a couple, are now on the team. Like I said, 2011 is going to be a fun year!

Can someone (not a basher) please explain to me (me, being a "new guy" as someone pointed out) why do people take the time berate RIM in a public forum? Isn't crackberry.com for fans of BB? I don't get it. I can't believe I've wasted this much time myself! And I'm clearly a fan! I assume these people are paid by the competitors??

they are growing by selling old cheap technology into markets that don't have 3g yet. they are sinking like the Titanic in the most evolved mobile market on the planet. Take that business plan to a VC and watch him try to suppress his laughter.

[howarmat]

If you're going to assume iPhone will eat into BlackBerry's sales, it's only logical to assume it would also take a chunk out of Android's presence. It won't be exclusively BB users making the switch. Verizon users just wanted something different from BlackBerry and they had been limited before Android, so it makes sense some will switch, but it also makes sense that BlackBerry's presence on VZW won't dive much further than it already has.

it will take a bite of android for sure, but atleast android has phones to compete against the iphone. BB on VZW will only keep going down. They might be getting some OS 6 refreshes to go up against android and the iphone but that isnt going to be an easy sell either

[dutchtender]

If you're going to assume iPhone will eat into BlackBerry's sales, it's only logical to assume it would also take a chunk out of Android's presence. It won't be exclusively BB users making the switch. Verizon users just wanted something different from BlackBerry and they had been limited before Android, so it makes sense some will switch, but it also makes sense that BlackBerry's presence on VZW won't dive much further than it already has.

ok. all you are saying is that now BB becomes the Third choice instead of the second at Verizon. Look what happened to them last year when they were second choice. this is awful news for rimm and I suspect Monday you will see it reflected in "real time" in Toronto.

[pkcable]

Let's keep the conversation friendly folks! At least towards each other!

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[1812dave]

If you're going to assume iPhone will eat into BlackBerry's sales, it's only logical to assume it would also take a chunk out of Android's presence. It won't be exclusively BB users making the switch. Verizon users just wanted something different from BlackBerry and they had been limited before Android, so it makes sense some will switch, but it also makes sense that BlackBerry's presence on VZW won't dive much further than it already has.

Sorry, I can't agree with your assessment of RIM's sales figures, if the Jesus phone hits Verizon. RIM's having enough difficulty with all the various Androids that came out in their first year, and now we have Androids on steroids. This is going to be a watershed year for RIM, I'm afraid. The PB notwithstanding.

I DO agree that the iPhone will cut into Android sales ON VERIZON, but even if they win a skirmish, I suspect Android will win the war--same as WinTel beat the crap out of closed-garden-Apple's PC business. Despite Apples preeminence in their various market segments, their stellar market cap could have been an order of magnitude larger, had they had the foresight to license the Mac OS. To all the smug people who've made money off of Apple, they COULD have made a boatload MORE money, had Jobs not hamstrung Apple.

[hootyhoo]

LOL you dork, that's what I said. Verizon is big, sure, and even with sales drying up there, sales are trending up for RIM, in general (at an incredible rate too).

Market share, admittedly has decreased, but sales are through the roof. So things are very, very good in RIM-land.

Well without calling you a name, if you will reread my original post, VZ IS what I was talking about. No where did I mention that RIM GLOBAL sales were not increasing. In your emotional and undying defense of RIM you seem to have missed my point of sales continuing to deteriorate on VZ for your beloved BB.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[jamesd98ca]

Funny thing is I, like yourself, I actually do know things.

However, my post was completely(sorta) made up. Kinda in the exact way that most members are thinking that your post was.

Also your still speaking in general and implying you know things, which is easy for any knowledgable member on here to do. So until your able to prove yourself your not gonna get much respect.

If you want me to make up a post to get people on here excited, I'll do it, I have the time. Kinda like Tommy Boy having the time to take a dumb in a box and mark it guarenteed

I care not for respect, my friend. And I doubt you know much of anything of interest to BB fans, otherwise you'd state it. And I KNOW you don't know more than I (as that would be impossible. You could only possibly know as much as I, in terms of what 2011 will bring) SO -- assuming fans on here are truly fans, and not entirely pessimistic, I can say that what will be released by RIM in terms of hardware is going to be pretty cool, especially compared to anything else previously released.

I'll admit my goal in speaking here is a pipe-dream -- namely to assure the CB fanboys and others that RIM has certainly not slowed down in developing exciting hardware. Indeed the pace has gone way, way up in the R&D shops. AND with a determined recognition that leading-edge hardware matters. I WISH I could say more (I'm more than just a fan). I WISH the leaders of RIM would have said more on the specifics of the hardware plans for 2011 (and beyond) at CES. But CES is not the end-all and be-all either. Clearly the PlayBook was front and center there. And in this game (which for RIM, Apple, Google isn't all that high stakes, as any of these companies could burp out a brick and they'd sell 10-billion of em) announcements are so darned strategic, I have no doubts that holding back on announcing handheld stuff at CES was very calculated.

[1812dave]

I care not for respect, my friend. And I doubt you know much of anything of interest to BB fans, otherwise you'd state it. And I KNOW you don't know more than I (as that would be impossible. You could only possibly know as much as I, in terms of what 2011 will bring) SO -- assuming fans on here are truly fans, and not entirely pessimistic, I can say that what will be released by RIM in terms of hardware is going to be pretty cool, especially compared to anything else previously released.

I'll admit my goal in speaking here is a pipe-dream -- namely to assure the CB fanboys and others that RIM has certainly not slowed down in developing exciting hardware. Indeed the pace has gone way, way up in the R&D shops. AND with a determined recognition that leading-edge hardware matters. I WISH I could say more (I'm more than just a fan). I WISH the leaders of RIM would have said more on the specifics of the hardware plans for 2011 (and beyond) at CES. But CES is not the end-all and be-all either. Clearly the PlayBook was front and center there. And in this game (which for RIM, Apple, Google isn't all that high stakes, as any of these companies could burp out a brick and they'd sell 10-billion of em) announcements are so darned strategic, I have no doubts that holding back on announcing handheld stuff at CES was very calculated.

FYI: you don't have the power to assure us of anything of the sort.

If condescension was currency, you'd be a rich man!

[lieman]

it will take a bite of android for sure, but atleast android has phones to compete against the iphone. BB on VZW will only keep going down. They might be getting some OS 6 refreshes to go up against android and the iphone but that isnt going to be an easy sell either

Spoken like a true Android fan-boy . BlackBerry will survive, even if it loses more subscribers to iPhone than Android does, but I say again, in the Canadian market BlackBerrys and iPhones have been supported by all the carriers for well over a year, and BlackBerry is still out-selling both. That isn't an opinion, that's just the numbers, and American buying trends really don't differ too greatly from your neighbours to the North.

[jamesd98ca]

Well without calling you a name, if you will reread my original post, VZ IS what I was talking about. No where did I mention that RIM GLOBAL sales were not increasing. In your emotional and undying defense of RIM you seem to have missed my point of sales continuing to deteriorate on VZ for your beloved BB.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Yes, dork, but you say this as though it's very important. And I call you a dork in the loving and harmless way that all dorks should be referred to.

Sales can go to 0 in Verizon and RIM would barely notice it at this point.

So as am uber-fan, I can say this -- I'm sure sales won't go to 0 there, and they'll likely continue to increase at a record-setting pace for a while.

[iN8ter]

Our 3G+ services actually support faster data transfer than American networks, (no 4G yet, but that's a moot point considering iPhone is exclusively 3G anyway), and our price plans are strikingly similar when compared feature-for-feature. No unlimited, but plans generally include plenty of data to support even die-hard data-hungry iPhone users. As for price, we offer both iPhones and BlackBerrys for the same price as American carriers, even if we do require 3-year contracts instead of 2 (biggest pet peeve I have regarding our services).

Maybe CDMA, but Both Major American GSM Networks have upgraded pretty much their entire networks to HSPA+, and it gets practically the same down/up speeds as WiMax (I haven't tried LTE, yet). When AT&T launches their LTE network, their LTE phone will fall back to HSPA+, whereas Verizon's will fall back to CDMA.

I doubt you're HSDPA/HSUPA speeds are that fast. I really do.

On a 3g (non-HSPA+) device I get over 3.3mbps download and almost 2mbps upload on my Vibrant. On a non-HSPA+ network the speeds are over 1mbps slower...

Also, Canada has a much lower population than the USA. Their networks generally aren't as congested as ours.

[jamesd98ca]

FYI: you don't have the power to assure us of anything of the sort.

If condescension was currency, you'd be a rich man!

True enough -- I don't have the power to assure many people. BUT many people I'm sure are willing to trust. So, trust me, it's going to be a fun year. I'm extremely excited. I can't get wait to get my hands on the rest of the new devices!

And, I AM rich btw.

[iN8ter]

True enough -- I don't have the power to assure many people. BUT many people I'm sure are willing to trust. So, trust me, it's going to be a fun year. I'm extremely excited. I can't get wait to get my hands on the rest of the new devices!

And, I AM rich btw.

I am convinced that 98 is your birth year, and you're 13 years old. You should tone it down. You aren't adding anything to your credibility by calling people dorks and spewing verbal diarrhea everywhere in this thread.

[MattyG27]

I care not for respect, my friend. And I doubt you know much of anything of interest to BB fans, otherwise you'd state it. And I KNOW you don't know more than I (as that would be impossible. You could only possibly know as much as I, in terms of what 2011 will bring) SO -- assuming fans on here are truly fans, and not entirely pessimistic, I can say that what will be released by RIM in terms of hardware is going to be pretty cool, especially compared to anything else previously released.

I'll admit my goal in speaking here is a pipe-dream -- namely to assure the CB fanboys and others that RIM has certainly not slowed down in developing exciting hardware. Indeed the pace has gone way, way up in the R&D shops. AND with a determined recognition that leading-edge hardware matters. I WISH I could say more (I'm more than just a fan). I WISH the leaders of RIM would have said more on the specifics of the hardware plans for 2011 (and beyond) at CES. But CES is not the end-all and be-all either. Clearly the PlayBook was front and center there. And in this game (which for RIM, Apple, Google isn't all that high stakes, as any of these companies could burp out a brick and they'd sell 10-billion of em) announcements are so darned strategic, I have no doubts that holding back on announcing handheld stuff at CES was very calculated.

Your talking in circles here Your saying that if I know stuff then shouldn't I be stating it, yet if you know stuff shouldn't you be stating it?? It's the same thing....

And your also still talking in generalities. How do you know what I know? Are you the person developing some of these phones? If so, why not just come out and state it? Maybe if you let us know why or how you may know stuff then that may help us maybe BELIEVE you.
Wait you don't care for respect or if people believe you. I guess you just started as a CB member for sh!t and giggles.

[Jaguarr40]

Bionic is Android. Google is to Android as Trigger is to Roy Rodgers. inseparable.

dave if you have not seen this yet here are a few items on the Bionic. Hope this helps you out.

Hands on with the Motorola Droid Bionic | Android Central

Motorola Droid Bionic Unveiled, Coming to Verizon Q2 2011 | Android Central

Motorola Droid Bionic specs | Android Central

[lieman]

Maybe CDMA, but Both Major American GSM Networks have upgraded pretty much their entire networks to HSPA+, and it gets practically the same down/up speeds as WiMax (I haven't tried LTE, yet). When AT&T launches their LTE network, their LTE phone will fall back to HSPA+, whereas Verizon's will fall back to CDMA.

I doubt you're HSDPA/HSUPA speeds are that fast. I really do.

On a 3g (non-HSPA+) device I get over 3.3mbps download and almost 2mbps upload on my Vibrant. On a non-HSPA+ network the speeds are over 1mbps slower...

Also, Canada has a much lower population than the USA. Their networks generally aren't as congested as ours.

Sorry, I won't get too technical because that would involve going off-topic, but both Telus and Bell in Canada have implemented technology that takes standard HSPA+ data speeds and doubles them, and they are the only carriers in the world currently using this technology. Just another little tidbit too, both Bell and Telus support CDMA as well as HSPA+, and a full line-up of BlackBerrys, Android devices and the iPhone, so in addition to faster networks we generally have a more comprehensive line-up, but I digress. In short, we aren't getting 4G as soon as American carriers, our HSPA+ network really is that fast.

[the_sandman_454]

Our 3G+ services actually support faster data transfer than American networks, (no 4G yet, but that's a moot point considering iPhone is exclusively 3G anyway), and our price plans are strikingly similar when compared feature-for-feature. No unlimited, but plans generally include plenty of data to support even die-hard data-hungry iPhone users. As for price, we offer both iPhones and BlackBerrys for the same price as American carriers, even if we do require 3-year contracts instead of 2 (biggest pet peeve I have regarding our services).

That makes no sense to me that BB would beat out the competition then with faster networks available and not horribly priced data plans. Maybe it is a national pride thing.

If you're going to assume iPhone will eat into BlackBerry's sales, it's only logical to assume it would also take a chunk out of Android's presence. It won't be exclusively BB users making the switch. Verizon users just wanted something different from BlackBerry and they had been limited before Android, so it makes sense some will switch, but it also makes sense that BlackBerry's presence on VZW won't dive much further than it already has.

I could see iPhone taking a little chunk from Android, but I suspect the vast majority of market share loss will be suffered by BB.

ok. all you are saying is that now BB becomes the Third choice instead of the second at Verizon. Look what happened to them last year when they were second choice. this is awful news for rimm and I suspect Monday you will see it reflected in "real time" in Toronto.

When Android came out it sure put a quick halt on BB sales. It might not be pretty for BB in the US market, particularly on VZW with Android and iPhone to tag team them...

[Jaguarr40]

I'm agree, i think RIM neglected their smartphone line, and it's true that the only major release it's the Torch, the others releases were only redesign of existing phone like for the Curve 3G. Maybe it's the reason why there are lot of BB users switching for Andro�d devices, for Windows devices or for iPhone. For my part, i've an Android device and a Bold 9700 (i had the android before the BB). My android (HTC Hero) is faster than the Bold 9700 even with the OS 6. Sometimes i've to switch to the android for browsing internet cuz it's more easy and faster. I really thought to buy a Torch, but some android devices are more attractives in term of possibilities, and for that reason i don't know if i'll buy the Torch.



I'm not agree, i think RIM will survive, but will stay behind the others. RIM was first for a long time, but for a year now, they are falling.

Hope my english is clear, because it's not my native language.

Right now according to PC World and PC Mag dated yesterday the 6th of Jan Apple holds 28% of the smartphone market, RIM with 26% and Android right behind them with 25% so for now there you have it.

What does any of those figures mean in the US or globally well for me just means that choices and the companies willing to give the buying public what they want based on what they are buying are going to win out and these companies that are falling behind, Well they will have to deal with their Stockholders and Marketshare. This does not leave RIM off the hook, I think it was Reed who mentioned the state of RIM and what they have to do as a business in Canada the native country they are based in and my comment to Reed as much as i like him and a good Mod here was.... RIM just does not sell their product in Canada alone so...

[Jaguarr40]

Let's keep the conversation friendly folks! At least towards each other!

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Yes for sure PK...I think anytime a great thread like this no matter who started it but the attention and response it has gotten is goingto draw a vast many different opinions that some don't like but everyone should show their intelligence on here and make things civil in their posts and leave the name calling out. It lessens whatever you have to say.

[lieman]

Sorry, I can't agree with your assessment of RIM's sales figures, if the Jesus phone hits Verizon. RIM's having enough difficulty with all the various Androids that came out in their first year, and now we have Androids on steroids. This is going to be a watershed year for RIM, I'm afraid. The PB notwithstanding.

I DO agree that the iPhone will cut into Android sales ON VERIZON, but even if they win a skirmish, I suspect Android will win the war--same as WinTel beat the crap out of closed-garden-Apple's PC business. Despite Apples preeminence in their various market segments, their stellar market cap could have been an order of magnitude larger, had they had the foresight to license the Mac OS. To all the smug people who've made money off of Apple, they COULD have made a boatload MORE money, had Jobs not hamstrung Apple.

With all due respect, you don't have to agree with my statement of their figures. The fact of the matter is, in markets where BlackBerry has been offered alongside Android and iPhone, it has more than held its own. The folks at RIM aren't oblivious to the fact that they're losing market share; they'll make the appropriate changes when necessary.

[1812dave]

With all due respect, you don't have to agree with my statement of their figures. The fact of the matter is, in markets where BlackBerry has been offered alongside Android and iPhone, it has more than held its own. The folks at RIM aren't oblivious to the fact that they're losing market share; they'll make the appropriate changes when necessary.

Yeah? well, what's the hold up??

[TheScionicMan]

There's no $ paid out on the basis of market share. The market is growing. RIM is still selling more devices than the previous quarter. You've got 2 companies making a hardware/software solution and a bunch of hardware manufacturers using software someone else is making and licensing out. Those companies are in the business of selling hardware and aren't as interested in providing a end-to-end solution. Apple and RIM have to balance the cannibalism of their own products with giving new devices. Motorola, Samsung, and the others are going to sell their newest hardware whether is in your best interest or not. Not every car needs a V-8 Hemi, but if that's your product, that's what you're going to push whether the customer really needs it or not...

[tmelon]

Yeah? well, what's the hold up??

I assume their in the process of perfecting that PlayBook OS. I assume BlackBerry 6 will be the last of the normal BlackBerry OS and newer phones will be releases with the PlayBook OS. After the no show of the Storm 3 I'm getting the feeling that it might be what their waiting on. So in my opinion, it depends on how well the developers like the PlayBook and how many apps they make available. Without apps the PlayBook and BlackBerries with that OS are DOA.