1. pcuser's Avatar
    To me, the issue - if it is one - has nothing to do with the Indian government or any other government and its policies. It mainly has to do with how RIM manages its business and operations; as well, how it upholds its integrity.

    In 1977, faced with legal challenges, Coca-Cola pulled out of India rather than divulge its formula to the Indian government. Whatever justification RIM dishes out today, it seems to me that the company is selling part of its (original) trade mark just to be able to grab that market. I won't be surprised if it loses its (original) identity in the long run. But then, perhaps, the company may already be planning to evolve into a new entity. Or, be broken up into lesser entities.
    Last edited by pcuser; 04-09-12 at 10:55 AM.
    04-09-12 10:52 AM
  2. WillieLee's Avatar
    This is nothing like the Coca-Cola case. If Coke divulged their formula, they would have been facing competitors from local markets that got favourable treatment from the government and would be selling Coke's product.

    RIM is doing nothing in India that it hasn't done in every market and that's comply with the legal requests to user messages. For other platforms, the police only has to serve the carriers with a warrant to get access to user data. But to get through the encryption on the BIS network, they have to serve RIM. Nothing has changed in how RIM operates.
    04-09-12 11:10 AM
  3. jrohland's Avatar
    I'm wondering how many Indian companies and families are downloading BES Express about now?
    04-09-12 11:33 AM
  4. sam_b77's Avatar
    I'm wondering how many Indian companies and families are downloading BES Express about now?
    How does BES express work?
    04-09-12 02:17 PM
  5. app_Developer's Avatar
    The Coke case was more than 30 years ago, when the Indian economy was much smaller than it is now. Further, the Indian govt was asking for equity concessions and the formula, either of which made the basic business untenable.

    This is a totally different situation. India is one of the emerging economic superpowers. RIM would have been insane to leave India over this issue.
    04-09-12 02:24 PM
  6. lnichols's Avatar
    Well since my Blackberry doesn't communicate with an Indian BIS, then I'm pretty sure I'm safe even if I travel to India, since my encrypted session is built to T-Mobile's BIS. I'm pretty sure this only lets them get access to BB devices that are tied to the in-country BIS systems, and not any devices from outside. Every country has a right to intercept messages for national security purposes. It's up to the people of a country to make sure their elected officials don't abuse such powers for purposes other than national security. Easier said than done I'm sure.
    addicted44 likes this.
    04-09-12 02:32 PM
  7. addicted44's Avatar
    This is no different than what RIM is doing for many other nations across the world. I certainly don't see it as "selling their soul" or anything of the sort.

    And the Coke situation isn't even close to similar.
    04-09-12 02:42 PM
  8. sam_b77's Avatar
    Well since my Blackberry doesn't communicate with an Indian BIS, then I'm pretty sure I'm safe even if I travel to India, since my encrypted session is built to T-Mobile's BIS. I'm pretty sure this only lets them get access to BB devices that are tied to the in-country BIS systems, and not any devices from outside. Every country has a right to intercept messages for national security purposes. It's up to the people of a country to make sure their elected officials don't abuse such powers for purposes other than national security. Easier said than done I'm sure.
    Not sure you are correct about that. India has made RIM have a BIS server in India. If international BIS users can bypass that then the whole point of this is lost. It would be very simple for terrorists to get a BIS enabled phone from other countries and merrily plan their fireworks.

    The attack on the Israeli diplomat in Delhi was coordinated by a local Islamic terrorist who was using a cell phone from Iran.
    04-09-12 02:44 PM
  9. jrohland's Avatar
    How does BES express work?
    BES Express is just free BES with a limit of, I think 10 licenses. So what good is BES? In this context the important factor is that you can generate your own encryption keys. As long as you prevent the government from getting to the physical server and the encryption keys, they will have a very, very hard time reading your data.

    Since the BES server just needs to be somewhere on the Internet you could locate it in some country that won't allow your government to access it. And protect, or destroy the keys, you are good to go.
    04-09-12 04:46 PM
  10. pcuser's Avatar
    It's up to the people of a country to make sure their elected officials don't abuse such powers for purposes other than national security. Easier said than done I'm sure.
    You're right. That's the fear factor for many who are living in certain states that claim to be democratic and observe the basic rights of their citizens.
    04-09-12 06:27 PM
  11. bohbohboh's Avatar
    i don't care what the excuses are.

    here's the thing that bothers me: if RIM can cave in in India, they can do it in your home country.

    while i detest the way the infamous duo ran the company, i'm pretty sure they would have stood their ground and principles. implications are huge if you ask me.

    and what bothers me as well is the way the crackberry author phrased it.. something along the lines of 99% of us have nothing to hide. having nothing to hide does not equate to willingness to surrender privacy. i am 100% not supportive of crackberry's unbalanced viewpoint.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    04-09-12 07:52 PM
  12. hurds's Avatar
    Would this make RIM less secure than the other platforms or just on par? A lot of people here say consumers don't care about security and Id assume corporations arent affected by this.
    04-09-12 11:01 PM
  13. Tre Lawrence's Avatar

    while i detest the way the infamous duo ran the company, i'm pretty sure they would have stood their ground and principles. implications are huge if you ask me.
    This was their decision. It was business.

    Not saying I like it, but Indian authorities had leverage, and RIM needs India.


    Mobile post via Tapatalk
    04-10-12 12:25 AM
  14. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    How does BES express work?
    BES Express is a feature limited BES installation

    you still need to be running a email server such as IBM Lotus Domino, Microsoft Exchange Server or Windows Small Business Server.

    you're limited to 2000 users if you run 2 servers, 75 users if you use a Microsoft product and install BESX onto the same server

    BlackBerry - BlackBerry Enterprise Server Express - Deployment Options - BlackBerry in Canada



    Not a lot of family's will be going out and downloading and installing BESX
    04-10-12 12:33 AM
  15. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    i don't care what the excuses are.

    here's the thing that bothers me: if RIM can cave in in India, they can do it in your home country.

    while i detest the way the infamous duo ran the company, i'm pretty sure they would have stood their ground and principles. implications are huge if you ask me.

    and what bothers me as well is the way the crackberry author phrased it.. something along the lines of 99% of us have nothing to hide. having nothing to hide does not equate to willingness to surrender privacy. i am 100% not supportive of crackberry's unbalanced viewpoint.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk

    RIM already has caved in their own country, and in the US, and in the UK, where servers are installed, and all it takes is a warrant and BIS data is handed over, in India the government doesn't require the warrants so RIM can just grant them access to the data stream and the government already has access to everything else the carriers transmit.
    Geeoff likes this.
    04-10-12 12:35 AM
  16. pcuser's Avatar
    i don't care what the excuses are.

    here's the thing that bothers me: if RIM can cave in in India, they can do it in your home country.

    while i detest the way the infamous duo ran the company, i'm pretty sure they would have stood their ground and principles. implications are huge if you ask me.

    and what bothers me as well is the way the crackberry author phrased it.. something along the lines of 99% of us have nothing to hide. having nothing to hide does not equate to willingness to surrender privacy. i am 100% not supportive of crackberry's unbalanced viewpoint.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    Same feelings. Unfortunately, RIM is fundamentally a business entity.
    04-10-12 12:36 AM
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