12-29-11 11:54 AM
34 12
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  1. Pilchard's Avatar
    You say that as if the other platforms ARE bug and problem free, when in fact they are not.

    Joe Public actually accepts it more than we do, IMO. But most people will just continue to struggle with a phone's problems or keep trading it until they are tired of finding one without problems.
    That's a good point, well made. I don't have any experience of other platforms and I am a signed up RIM fanboy and haven't strayed.

    However, no other platforms make worldwide news by knocking out users for several days, do they? No one else has had a fiasco like Playbook which launched without email when RIM's core value is mobile email, and we are still waiting (and will wait two more months) for this. I'm also deeply peeved that I paid twice what I could now pay for a PB.
    teknishun likes this.
    12-29-11 07:38 AM
  2. tack's Avatar
    I guess I am different in that I see this market as quite dynamic and therefore players can take share. Is this not evident by how quick Android took share and RIM lost it in the US? I actually think Windows Phone will do quite well in the long run. Their advertising is solid and so is the platform. Plus Microsoft has a huge war chest to back it up for the long haul.

    I think RIM can make a comeback, but time is against them. They cannot sustain as long as MS, and need to turn it around in 2012. BB10 alone won't do anything for them. They need to combine with with management changes, better more targeted marketing, a kicking touchscreen device to compliment the Bold's, and some type of App porting or support to quickly build up a database of apps. I am not OS expert, but QNX does not seem far enough from Linux/Android that they could not provide an easy way to port apps quickly or at least expand the Android app support present in the PB OS builds to the phone also. If I could get Android apps or ports on a BB (and I mean most if not all of them), I might just switch back eventually, but it needs to be a 4" touchscreen with FFC and 8MP shooter.
    12-29-11 08:42 AM
  3. kbz1960's Avatar
    All they need is for it to be like the playbook with the missing functionality and apps.

    BTW what is so special about this list?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/22/te...he-iphone.html
    12-29-11 09:07 AM
  4. Moonbase0ne's Avatar
    I doubt iPhone5 will be shockingly better than the iPhone4S. Apple makes incremental changes. They'll have the same OS but what, a better screen, better battery life, better reception...and Siri is...fundamentally annoying, I don't want to hear (many) people talking to their phones

    I'm always seeing ads for iPhone and android...a large part of the problem might just be "out of sight, out of mind".
    It probably won't, but if they redesign it even a little and up the specs for it from the current 4S, people are going to buy it. That's where RIM should be worried.


    War Is All We Know
    12-29-11 09:15 AM
  5. Moonbase0ne's Avatar

    BTW what is so special about this list?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/22/te...he-iphone.html
    What do you mean?



    War Is All We Know
    12-29-11 09:26 AM
  6. Economist101's Avatar
    I doubt iPhone5 will be shockingly better than the iPhone4S.
    The 4S is on its way to being the best selling smartphone in the brief history of smartphones, so a "shockingly better" iPhone isn't needed. On the other hand, RIM's entire line of devices can't keep up, sales wise, with iPhones; RIM is the company that needs its next device to be "shockingly better."


    I don't want to hear (many) people talking to their phones
    To each their own. Personally I'm not a big fan of physical keyboards. Lucky for me, I see fewer all the time.

    I'm always seeing ads for iPhone and android...a large part of the problem might just be "out of sight, out of mind".
    Let's assume this is true. What does it say about RIM's chances of recovery if they are only just know appreciating the effects of advertising? BlackBerry now takes a back seat to Android at carriers, and there are no BlackBerry stores for people to purchase RIM products, so what's the plan? More TV ads? Marketing is a critical element of success, but if you honestly believe its going to be "marketing + new phone = 2008 RIM" you're getting a bit ahead of yourself.
    12-29-11 09:31 AM
  7. _StephenBB81's Avatar

    RIM needs to focus on one big and complete change in order to shock the tech industry and force it to re-evaluate it's stance on RIM. That, is BB10. For BB10 RIM really has no choice but to limit the gradual leak of new features, and wait to release BB10 until it is damn well good and ready and knocks your socks off.

    And that is what they are doing. BB10 is delayed, but it should be 100% ready when it finally launches. In the interim it's is doom and gloom, but RIM will survive this era.

    So: Be patient. Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither will RIM's future. It's fun to focus on the now, but that just leaves you with northing except being in debt up to your eyeballs.

    RIM's "Big and Complete change" needs to be 2 fold, it needs to be an inviting and easy to develop for ecosystem, which will be their biggest change from their previous offerings to developers, and next it needs to be their content partners, the BlackBerry Devices are great, what they lack the most for the majority of people are the "cool apps" I have a rather well off friend who has a BlackBerry for communication and has an iPhone ONLY for the App that hears music then finds the music to buy on itunes, This app has helped him in his business and it is well worth the data plan and the off contract price of the iphone, had BlackBerry had such an app, and a market place link to purchase the music in a few clicks he'd never have gone iphone.

    My Doctor friends are almost all iPhone users now due to iPhones having the most medical software, none of them particularly like the iPhone, and my PlayBook has been coveted many times but it's lack of Medical apps leaves it as a oohh that could be so useful but...

    The construction of the BlackBerry line, and the UI has been excellent over the years, and recently the internals have helped with issues that late OS5 and OS6 devices had,


    With the Delay I have a little more confidence that RIM will have more of the ecosystem pieces in Place, I was sure that the ecosystem was going to drag down a BB10 phone launch in Q22012, they have a chance to expand their great potential products, such as BBM Music, Pinshare.me, BlackBerry Travel, BlackBerry Wallet, BlackBerry Protect, All of these products are good... good isn't enough yet, and they need to be made great, I hope, though it is fleeting that RIM will improve those products and better integrate them or assist in having them better integrated.
    rdkempt likes this.
    12-29-11 09:35 AM
  8. sleepngbear's Avatar
    RIM make great phones on the high end (the low end leaves something to be desired but consider the target market). Hardware isn't really the problem, neither is the OS, QNX scales and would be a great phone OS. The problem is the eco-system. Without apps, music, movies, cloud etc. RIM can't and won't compete. They have until late 2012 to get this eco-system in place, whether through purchases or partnerships, but without it they will be an "also ran" player in the smartphone game.
    I think I'd have to agree with this. I see BBOS as mature and stable rather than outdated. It works, and there's only so much you can do with icons on a 3.5-4" diagonal piece of real estate. The fact that it is old only provides people with a convenient excuse to call it outdated. Personally, I prefer how BBOS looks and works to any Android OS I've seen, iOS, or WP. Then again, I also liked the old Palm OS, so you can kind of see where I'm coming from there.

    I think RIM is making some headway as far as media content which should be coming more apparent in a few months. Apps are a whole different story. A lot is going to hinge on how well they implement the new QNX/BB10 SDK and whether or not developers latch onto it. If they do, and word gets around that BB does now have a decent selection of apps -- and they're pretty darn good -- then possibly more consumers will be awakened to this brand that isn't half as bad or as wonky as we all thought it was. BB10 needs to be able to deliver that. It doesn't need 500,000 apps in AppWorld, but it does need enough of what the other platforms are offering to attract new users to the brand and keep them there. That's a lot of if's, but it's not impossible.
    12-29-11 10:26 AM
  9. tack's Avatar
    I was going to stay out of this, but I have to say that I take issue with saying RIM's hardware and the BB OS are stable or more solid than others. My worst hardware experiences have been with BB's over the last 7 years including having iPhones, Droids, and MS Phone handsets. My 4 BB's during that time required exchanging them at least 2 times each due to hardware issues, including my 8830WE, which was heralded as an awesome phone for the time. The Tour and Storms were all 3 jokes in terms of quality. My worst issues with reboots, battery pulls, etc were also with the BB OS. I know OS7 has improved this quite a bit, but only recently in my experience.

    I loved my BB's despite all of this, but the hardware issues and software issues killed BB at my company. We have gone mixed Droid and iPhone and have far less IT support instances than we ever did with BB's. Is security a concern for me? Yep because BB's rock in this area. Our IT department won't look back due to help desk statistics.

    I know my experience is limited and not equal to everyone's, but if it is a proxy, RIM's hardware and software are not the most reliable. I would not call them the worst either. I think they probably equal the leaders. I would say that my Droid experience was near equal in terms of poor hardware however (maybe worse).

    Not trying to bash RIM, but I have a different perspective than those that constantly state the superiority of RIM's hardware and OS stability. Despite all this, I can still see myself coming back if they get some things changed in future releases. There are many things I miss.
    12-29-11 11:54 AM
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