12-29-11 11:54 AM
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  1. grahamf's Avatar
    As some of you may know, RIM's public reception kinda leaves something to be desired.

    Ever since the Rushing of the phone-that-will-not-be-named era, RIM's handsets have taken a major hit in reliablity, quality, and stability. RIM has been slowly been improving their devices; but the general tech world essentially just takes a look at the device, notes that it is slightly improved but is still lacking compared to Android and the like, and considers it still to be a failure and moves on.

    This is some what similar to the Frog in the pot theory (Problably best mentioned by Al Gore). How the theory goes: Take two frogs and put them both in pots full of cool water. then slowly heat one of the pot to boiling. Because the change is so gradual, the frog won't jump out and will stay into the pot until it is boiling. Then take the other frog out opf the cool water and drop him into the pot full of hot water. He will immediately notice a change and will change his stance that staying in the pot is a good idea.

    RIM needs to focus on one big and complete change in order to shock the tech industry and force it to re-evaluate it's stance on RIM. That, is BB10. For BB10 RIM really has no choice but to limit the gradual leak of new features, and wait to release BB10 until it is damn well good and ready and knocks your socks off.

    And that is what they are doing. BB10 is delayed, but it should be 100% ready when it finally launches. In the interim it's is doom and gloom, but RIM will survive this era.

    So: Be patient. Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither will RIM's future. It's fun to focus on the now, but that just leaves you with northing except being in debt up to your eyeballs.
    12-27-11 01:47 PM
  2. BBBrooklynFAN's Avatar
    Too late.

    There has been a hot debate on tech blogs over the failure of Windows phone.

    parislemon • The Windows Phone Problem In Three Words: Way Too Late.

    But Apple could also afford to do this because they were first to market. When the iPhone launched in 2007, the other smartphones on the market were . There was no actual competition for the iPhone. The first Android phones that launched over a year later were a joke.

    Contrast that with Windows Phone which launched far too late into the market. Kindel never mentions it, but you simply can’t downplay that fact. Had Windows Phone launched in 2007 or even 2008, the story would have been different. Instead, it launched in late 2010.

    Way too late.
    "late 2010" is considered irrecoverably late here for Windows, which has much higher name recognition and much more money to burn in marketing and pay third party developers.

    "Late 2012" is a joke.
    Last edited by BBBrooklynFAN; 12-27-11 at 01:59 PM.
    teknishun likes this.
    12-27-11 01:57 PM
  3. T
    There is nothing wrong with RIM products. Rim is even profitable. Investment bankers would like to cannibalize RIM and extract their pound of flesh. I hope stock prices go even lower, and the banksters start to self-defenestrate. Hellooooo ... banksters, you overpaid! D'oh!
    12-27-11 02:34 PM
  4. Pilchard's Avatar
    And that is what they are doing. BB10 is delayed, but it should be 100% ready when it finally launches. In the interim it's is doom and gloom, but RIM will survive this era.
    Here's the thing. My 9900 is great now it's on .590 (though it still has an annoying bug which drops the indicated battery charge from 100% to 92% all of a sudden) but it took ages for RIM to get to .590 from launch. RIM has absolutely no credibility when it comes to launching products on time, or products with decent software that isn't bug ridden. Naturally they would if they could, but they can't. As fanboys and fangirls we all accept that and live with it, but Joe Public won't and doesn't.

    I really hope the delay "waiting for the new chip" gives RIM the time it needs to deliver a really solid consumer experience with BB10, but my experience of my 9900 and Playbook tells me it will be at least 6 months after launch before they have robust software, and by that time the reviews will have long ago been written and read and public perception of RIM's last chance written in stone.

    Do you really think RIM will launch products that are 100% ready?
    12-27-11 03:25 PM
  5. berklon's Avatar
    RIM needs to focus on one big and complete change in order to shock the tech industry and force it to re-evaluate it's stance on RIM. That, is BB10. For BB10 RIM really has no choice but to limit the gradual leak of new features, and wait to release BB10 until it is damn well good and ready and knocks your socks off.
    But what in BB10 will knock peoples socks off?

    What will make it so amazing that will reverse their market-share and stock price decline and make up for the fact that it was released 3 years late?
    12-27-11 03:29 PM
  6. GingerSnapsBack's Avatar
    It would be amazing if they actually released a product when they said they would without delaying.

    It would be amazing if they actually listened to their fanbase on what we want.
    12-27-11 03:42 PM
  7. app_Developer's Avatar
    There is nothing wrong with RIM products. Rim is even profitable. Investment bankers would like to cannibalize RIM and extract their pound of flesh. I hope stock prices go even lower, and the banksters start to self-defenestrate. Hellooooo ... banksters, you overpaid! D'oh!
    There needs to be a sarcasm tag on these boards. So often I cannot figure out if people are being serious or not.
    teknishun and tack like this.
    12-27-11 04:03 PM
  8. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    There's very little shocking additions left in the smartphone industry. It's mostly now about refinement. If RIM continues their current marketing push, that will also do wonders. It's not that there's such a huge gap between BB and the other platforms, it is more about the fact that people get bombarded everyday with iPhone and Android ads but not the same repetition for BlackBerry. So the only time people hear the BlackBerry name is when they are scanning the headlines. And there seems to be so many gloomy headlines unless you look deeper and realize it's usually all from the same unsubstantiated rumor.

    Here's the thing. My 9900 is great now it's on .590 (though it still has an annoying bug which drops the indicated battery charge from 100% to 92% all of a sudden) but it took ages for RIM to get to .590 from launch. RIM has absolutely no credibility when it comes to launching products on time, or products with decent software that isn't bug ridden. Naturally they would if they could, but they can't. As fanboys and fangirls we all accept that and live with it, but Joe Public won't and doesn't.
    You say that as if the other platforms ARE bug and problem free, when in fact they are not.

    Joe Public actually accepts it more than we do, IMO. But most people will just continue to struggle with a phone's problems or keep trading it until they are tired of finding one without problems.
    Last edited by TheScionicMan; 12-27-11 at 04:23 PM.
    kbz1960 likes this.
    12-27-11 04:06 PM
  9. T
    There needs to be a sarcasm tag on these boards. So often I cannot figure out if people are being serious or not.
    No sarcasm. Serious.
    12-27-11 04:35 PM
  10. grahamf's Avatar
    True, when BB10 comes out they need to go heavily into their advertising.

    I'm thinking maybe something that has the edginess of the Virgin Canada's Pearl commercial (minus the framefreeze, RIM's trying to move away from that), a distinctive song (Like Nickleback's "Afternoon), and a tagline along the lines of "this isn't your daddy's BlackBerry"

    But as long as BB10 comes in with a bang (and on time in relation to the ramping up of public awareness), it should be good.
    Last edited by grahamf; 12-27-11 at 08:27 PM.
    12-27-11 08:15 PM
  11. azrin640's Avatar
    The budget for 10 mil next year will it be used to promote bb7 or bb10?

    It will be too late for BB7 when Bb10 is around the corner and too early for Bb10 if it will be launched on the 4th quarter.
    12-28-11 12:53 PM
  12. sleepngbear's Avatar
    It would be amazing if they actually released a product when they said they would without delaying.

    It would be amazing if they actually listened to their fanbase on what we want.
    I think the biggest problem is that they listened only to their fanbase, which is a limited and relatively finite subset of the market as a whole. They were comfortable knowing what their customers wanted in 2007, but had no clue whatsoever that there was a huge untapped market waiting to be exploited by Apple, even though Apple all but told them as much. I'm not sure what more this current 'fanbase' wants that isn't now being delivered or planned for BB10 (aside from delivering what they promise somewhere close to the targeted timeframe).
    12-28-11 01:10 PM
  13. BBThemes's Avatar
    RIM has absolutely no credibility when it comes to launching products on time, or products with decent software that isn't bug ridden. Naturally they would if they could, but they can't. As fanboys and fangirls we all accept that and live with it, but Joe Public won't and doesn't.
    id suggest a galaxy nexus instead....oops, volume bug at launch on edge signal
    how bout an iphone4s, just hope ya ent scottish or australian lol (and thats only if ya battery lasts).
    so maybe a wp7 device? just hope you dont get the `need to wipe your phone` sms.

    lets all quit acting like everyone else is perfect with software, i havent yet seen a OS launch from ANYONE that is bug free, so to call on `bug ridden` is to call them all bug ridden.


    also fyi OP, its perception ya meant
    kbz1960 likes this.
    12-28-11 01:17 PM
  14. Sith_Apprentice's Avatar
    RIM has NEVER listened to their fan base. They listen to CIOs who wanted to lock down their network and have a device that could go through and keep running. That is the single reason RIM is in the position they are in. CIOs are all about (or should be) keeping their network safe and allowing only what needs to be allowed. This doesnt work for the consumer, not a single bit.
    12-28-11 01:21 PM
  15. teknishun's Avatar
    There's very little shocking additions left in the smartphone industry. It's mostly now about refinement. If RIM continues their current marketing push, that will also do wonders. It's not that there's such a huge gap between BB and the other platforms, it is more about the fact that people get bombarded everyday with iPhone and Android ads but not the same repetition for BlackBerry. So the only time people hear the BlackBerry name is when they are scanning the headlines. And there seems to be so many gloomy headlines unless you look deeper and realize it's usually all from the same unsubstantiated rumor.



    You say that as if the other platforms ARE bug and problem free, when in fact they are not.

    Joe Public actually accepts it more than we do, IMO. But most people will just continue to struggle with a phone's problems or keep trading it until they are tired of finding one without problems.
    The gap (or lack thereof) debatable. The size if the gap has everything to do with perception (RIM is perceived as boring), and advertising alone isn't going to fix that. Developers seemingly do not want to touch RIM products with a ten foot pole. Every commercial that gets aired says to "download our iPhone app and download our Android app". No amount of RIM advertising is going to fix that.

    Even the the commercials that are now airing during NBA games are boring. They show different things like glowing bikes and such, but when it shows the Bold's screen all you see is words. To someone who doesn't frequent this site, that Bold looks just like the Bold of 2008. Advertising isn't going to fix that because that phone looks just like the phone that their parents or thier boss had four years ago.
    dobiefan likes this.
    12-28-11 01:21 PM
  16. teknishun's Avatar
    id suggest a galaxy nexus instead....oops, volume bug at launch on edge signal
    how bout an iphone4s, just hope ya ent scottish or australian lol (and thats only if ya battery lasts).
    so maybe a wp7 device? just hope you dont get the `need to wipe your phone` sms.

    lets all quit acting like everyone else is perfect with software, i havent yet seen a OS launch from ANYONE that is bug free, so to call on `bug ridden` is to call them all bug ridden.


    also fyi OP, its perception ya meant
    The problem with these issues that you raise is that they do not affect sales one bit. So apparently the general public is OK with these issues.
    12-28-11 01:23 PM
  17. Angelo_Campher's Avatar
    I'm tired of hearing that all BlackBerry's look the same when in fact the bolds have changed significantly more than the iPhone and S 2 over a period of time.

    And who is comapring BB10 to Windows Phone? The difference is that BlackBerry have a 75 million strong user base as it is. Did the Windows Phone have the same user base last year?

    Let's just leave all this speculation please. RIM will either survive or tank. End of.
    12-28-11 01:51 PM
  18. Angelo_Campher's Avatar
    I'm tired of hearing that all BlackBerry's look the same when in fact the bolds have changed significantly more than the iPhone and S 2 over a period of time.

    And who is comapring BB10 to Windows Phone? The difference is that BlackBerry have a 75 million strong user base as it is. Did the Windows Phone have the same user base last year?

    Let's just leave all this speculation please. RIM will either survive or tank. End of.
    12-28-11 01:52 PM
  19. Moonbase0ne's Avatar
    BB10 is supposed to be released around late 2012. If the new iPhone is released anywhere near the BB10 release date, RIM is in trouble. The hype and anticipation for the next iPhone will drown out much of the excitement for a BB10 for people looking for a new phone or contemplating on leaving BB, getting their first smartphone.

    Not to mention the Samsung Galaxy's, Droids/Razrs, HTC's, etc...




    War Is All We Know
    12-28-11 02:27 PM
  20. berklon's Avatar
    I'm tired of hearing that all BlackBerry's look the same when in fact the bolds have changed significantly more than the iPhone and S 2 over a period of time
    The problem is people get excited about an iPhone and S2 because it's already where the consumers wants it to be in terms of style and functionality. Whereas for a long time people felt that BBs were outdated - and RIM keeps releasing a new BB that doesn't look different enough (in terms of hardware and OS) to make people think they're cutting edge now. To most people, until RIM decides to catch up to the competition - it's the same 'ole, same 'ole.

    And really, as big an improvement OS7 is over previous versions - it looks like the same outdated OS they've always had - which is now running on a new 9900 device that doesn't look much different than previous Bolds. A MAJOR change is needed to attract attention.
    12-28-11 02:44 PM
  21. berklon's Avatar
    BB10 is supposed to be released around late 2012. If the new iPhone is released anywhere near the BB10 release date, RIM is in trouble.
    Then RIM is in trouble because it's almost guaranteed that Apple will release the next iPhone next year - which means it can't be any later than late 2012. So it's either going head-to-head at the same time as BB10 or months before it - either way RIM is in trouble.
    This was why it was EXTREMELY important for RIM to release BB10 in early 2012.

    Let's not forget the lure of the Android phones is hurting RIM big time. It seems like every month there's a new Android phone released - it gets harder and harder for people to wait yet another year for RIM's savoir device - which will be no better than current devices anyways.
    GingerSnapsBack likes this.
    12-28-11 02:49 PM
  22. anthogag's Avatar
    I doubt iPhone5 will be shockingly better than the iPhone4S. Apple makes incremental changes. They'll have the same OS but what, a better screen, better battery life, better reception...and Siri is...fundamentally annoying, I don't want to hear (many) people talking to their phones

    I'm always seeing ads for iPhone and android...a large part of the problem might just be "out of sight, out of mind".
    12-28-11 03:17 PM
  23. Angelo_Campher's Avatar
    The problem is people get excited about an iPhone and S2 because it's already where the consumers wants it to be in terms of style and functionality. Whereas for a long time people felt that BBs were outdated - and RIM keeps releasing a new BB that doesn't look different enough (in terms of hardware and OS) to make people think they're cutting edge now. To most people, until RIM decides to catch up to the competition - it's the same 'ole, same 'ole.

    And really, as big an improvement OS7 is over previous versions - it looks like the same outdated OS they've always had - which is now running on a new 9900 device that doesn't look much different than previous Bolds. A MAJOR change is needed to attract attention.
    That's all good and well but the iPhones and Galaxy's look no different than their previous iterations but yet we hear all BlackBerry's look the same. I understand the outdated OS issue but yet the other platforms UI's look exactly alike as well.

    If you ask me it is more about very few people being pedantic than anything else. Even if RIM hit a home run with BB10 and make a model similar to the 9900 you would hear the same old foolish arguments despite it being the next best thing to sliced bread.
    Last edited by Hush9300; 12-29-11 at 03:48 AM.
    kbz1960 likes this.
    12-29-11 03:40 AM
  24. Senor Wright's Avatar
    Leave BlackBerry Alone lol..All the bashing and hate is ridiculous..I agree that RIM needs to step up there game, and I TRULY believe they will!..No amount of hate and bashing will have me leaving my beloved BB though!!..Loyalty.
    12-29-11 07:02 AM
  25. xandermac's Avatar
    RIM make great phones on the high end (the low end leaves something to be desired but consider the target market). Hardware isn't really the problem, neither is the OS, QNX scales and would be a great phone OS. The problem is the eco-system. Without apps, music, movies, cloud etc. RIM can't and won't compete. They have until late 2012 to get this eco-system in place, whether through purchases or partnerships, but without it they will be an "also ran" player in the smartphone game.
    12-29-11 07:11 AM
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