10-14-11 08:48 AM
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  1. san4berry's Avatar
    something to ponder during this prolonged outage, Does RIM really need all this internal infrastructure? Seems as though more and more companies, including financial institutions and even gov't agencies are embracing other platforms. Big banks now allow iphones, and even crap android devices and don't worry about security and control. Would it serve RIM better to transition of RIM infrastructure and just use carrier networks for trasmission? E-mail would connect through IMAP, BBM would just work like a text message and use the carrier networks etc..etc. IT seems as though people no longer care that bb is most secure and can be controlled more stringintly than other platforms. It would save them a lot of money on infrastructure costs as well as other areas.
    10-12-11 11:22 AM
  2. SC457's Avatar
    Even with the outage right now, I prefer more security. A few days of problems every few years isn't a big deal to me, I'd rather have more security. Other platforms have problems and so do carriers. I just saw a headline apple had a problem launching their icloud. Nothing is perfect, except for my BlackBerry 99% of the time. Typing this from my 9810 right now because it still works over WiFi!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-12-11 11:25 AM
  3. ph03n1x's Avatar
    Even with the outage right now, I prefer more security. A few days of problems every few years isn't a big deal to me, I'd rather have more security. Other platforms have problems and so do carriers. I just saw a headline apple had a problem launching their icloud. Nothing is perfect, except for my BlackBerry 99% of the time. Typing this from my 9810 right now because it still works over WiFi!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    yea id have to agree systems are only as good as the people working on it so systems will fail and i would prefer security too dont want people getting private stuff
    10-12-11 11:29 AM
  4. samab's Avatar
    The infrastructure will only become less important when the world embraces ipv6.
    10-12-11 12:03 PM
  5. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Isn't that where Apple is heading too with iCloud and iMessage? They both work trough Apple's servers that have been hacked once by the way.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-12-11 12:32 PM
  6. trucky's Avatar
    A huge portion of all Blackberries are sold to guvmint agencies. As long as that continues so will the requirement for a secure infrastructure. You won't see an iPhone or an Android in the hands of the POTUS any time soon.
    bbzak likes this.
    10-12-11 01:10 PM
  7. bbzak's Avatar
    I would shout a big YES.
    YES
    YES

    No other device manufacturer has been more emphasizing on the security part of communication with an amazing record of punctual service.

    Maybe, a few serious changes would be thought into the current infrastructure to avoid the outages and easier backup and trouble shooting etc..
    But the architecture should keep going.
    I really wish and pray that it is alive and kicking till the day when sun decides to take a hike and earth goes into an oblivion!
    10-12-11 01:33 PM
  8. lnichols's Avatar
    something to ponder during this prolonged outage, Does RIM really need all this internal infrastructure? Seems as though more and more companies, including financial institutions and even gov't agencies are embracing other platforms. Big banks now allow iphones, and even crap android devices and don't worry about security and control. Would it serve RIM better to transition of RIM infrastructure and just use carrier networks for trasmission? E-mail would connect through IMAP, BBM would just work like a text message and use the carrier networks etc..etc. IT seems as though people no longer care that bb is most secure and can be controlled more stringintly than other platforms. It would save them a lot of money on infrastructure costs as well as other areas.
    Well all of the institutions you mention are probably not being affected by the outage because they would be using BES. These outages are affecting BIS only from what I have seen. RIM should make proxying through the BIS optional and just have it for BBM and e-mail if you don't want to do IMAP/POP from the device as BIS is mostly consumer only. Hopefully with QNX they will add more options. The outage though comes at a very poor time with iCloud getting ready to be rolled out. I still think their is a strong case for BES in government and security conscience business organizations.
    10-12-11 01:33 PM
  9. Blacklac's Avatar
    If certain companies don't want to utilize BB and its security, that's their choice. Many still do obviously. Better to be safe than sorry, IMO. Especially with all the data breaches we hear about these days.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-12-11 01:46 PM
  10. Accidental Post's Avatar
    Isn't that where Apple is heading too with iCloud and iMessage? They both work trough Apple's servers that have been hacked once by the way.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

    When was Apples new Data Center in North Carolina that houses iCloud and iMessage hacked?
    10-12-11 01:48 PM
  11. Blacklac's Avatar
    A quick search found this:

    AntiSec Claims To Hacked Into Apple's iCloud Servers

    Not sure if that's what he was referring to, I never followed that when it happened to hear the debate about it all.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-12-11 02:07 PM
  12. Accidental Post's Avatar
    Interesting since iCloud wasn't even official until today......LOL
    10-12-11 02:09 PM
  13. Blacklac's Avatar
    Doesn't mean it wasn't being used prior to today. How long do you think they were testing it internally?

    I honestly don't know details, or really care. It just peaked my interest just now and I had a few minutes to spare. I just don't think that because it only officially launched software side to the general public, today, that its reason enough for it to be false.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-12-11 02:14 PM
  14. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Interesting since iCloud wasn't even official until today......LOL
    Even worse, it was only used by a few people on beta.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-12-11 03:08 PM
  15. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    The only reason that wasn't bigger news was because at the same time Sony was being hacked to death.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    luna9698 likes this.
    10-12-11 03:09 PM
  16. collide.six's Avatar
    I run BES servers and understand the technology pretty well. Sending / receiving emails with a Blackberry is no more secure than using and iPhone with Exchange or any other email server as long as you configure it to use HTTPS. There's a lot of hype around how secure blackberry's are. 5 - 10 years ago that may have been true but these days it's just not the case. There are some advantages to businesses when using a BES server because they can have finite control over just about every aspect of the devices, such as disabling the camera, only allowing access to certain apps and websites etc. But realistically most business only use a small fraction of the options offered in BES. Most of the capabilities that business do want are available in Exchange such as force passwords, enabling encryption, remote wipe etc. Bottom line is Blackberry security is very much over blown. In fact because RIM routes all data through their network its a liablility and this recent outage understates that. It's a single point of failure and this is far from the first time that there's been an outage at RIM. I'd argue that an iPhone 4 connected to Exchange using HTTPS with encryption, remote wipe and all the options available plenty secure for 90% of the businesses and is more reliable to boot.
    10-12-11 06:04 PM
  17. Rootbrian's Avatar
    Nothing is perfect, no infrastructure is perfect either. Things are bound to go wrong regardless of how things are patched/corrected/stable/coded. Even Linux on my machines messes up, even windows can corrupt something during an update or as simple as a power outage during a defragmentation (it did happen to me, lost 5GB of data), which cannot be avoided due to not having UPS.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-12-11 08:00 PM
  18. Rootbrian's Avatar
    Nothing is perfect, no infrastructure is perfect either. Things are bound to go wrong regardless of how things are patched/corrected/stable/coded. Even Linux on my machines messes up, even windows can corrupt something during an update or as simple as a power outage during a defragmentation (it did happen to me, lost 5GB of data), which cannot be avoided due to not having UPS. Heck, even hard disks/solid state drives fail. Nothing is failsafe unless backups are in place, even some backups fail.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-12-11 08:01 PM
  19. collide.six's Avatar
    This is a worldwide outage affecting millions of users, not simply a network cord accidently getting unplugged in some wiring closet. Being a network adminstrator it blows me away that RIMs infrastructre is so poorly designed that an outage of this magnitude could ever happen. The funny thing is the guy in charge of their network will probably get promoted after this just like the guy in charge of designing and building the Blackberry Storm.
    lnichols and howarmat like this.
    10-12-11 08:48 PM
  20. lnichols's Avatar
    This is a worldwide outage affecting millions of users, not simply a network cord accidently getting unplugged in some wiring closet. Being a network adminstrator it blows me away that RIMs infrastructre is so poorly designed that an outage of this magnitude could ever happen. The funny thing is the guy in charge of their network will probably get promoted after this just like the guy in charge of designing and building the Blackberry Storm.
    I'm shocked too. This is a ridiculous amount of time for a "core switch failure". I think there is a lot more to the story then they are telling and I think they are not telling what really happened or is happening is because it would be embarrassing.
    10-12-11 09:11 PM
  21. Frank Castle's Avatar
    I run BES servers and understand the technology pretty well. Sending / receiving emails with a Blackberry is no more secure than using and iPhone with Exchange or any other email server as long as you configure it to use HTTPS. There's a lot of hype around how secure blackberry's are. 5 - 10 years ago that may have been true but these days it's just not the case. There are some advantages to businesses when using a BES server because they can have finite control over just about every aspect of the devices, such as disabling the camera, only allowing access to certain apps and websites etc. But realistically most business only use a small fraction of the options offered in BES. Most of the capabilities that business do want are available in Exchange such as force passwords, enabling encryption, remote wipe etc. Bottom line is Blackberry security is very much over blown. In fact because RIM routes all data through their network its a liablility and this recent outage understates that. It's a single point of failure and this is far from the first time that there's been an outage at RIM. I'd argue that an iPhone 4 connected to Exchange using HTTPS with encryption, remote wipe and all the options available plenty secure for 90% of the businesses and is more reliable to boot.
    Funny you don't see countries asking Apple, Google for means to supervise their messages? I think you failed to see that HTTPS (SSL) has now been compromised

    SSL Encryption Compromised | MYH3R3 – Believe In Your Technolust

    So yes Blackberry and maybe Good Technology are the lone platforms that provide end to end AES encrypted traffic. Overkill for small/med business - likely but RIM provides BES Express which still provides security but zero cost AND provides better management then Exchange ActiveSync. ActiveSync is an email relay with what 50 policies of which only Windows Mobile 5.0 - 6.5 fully support. Check this chart to see the mess managing EAS devices with any consistency is:

    Comparison of Exchange ActiveSync Clients - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Whole lot of red on that chart.

    Yes outages suck, RIM still puts up close to four 9's. Every cloud based system has had outages the past few months some lasting a week. Did you miss Apple's launch of iOS 5 was marred with Apple's own servers buckling from the demand, and now Apple is going to run all your data and messages??

    Please show me any system that is 100% available. I've yet to find one. Cable, electric, wireless carrier etc. All have outages.

    RIM's issue is one of their real big faults - lack of communication.

    I'm guessing their global infrastructure is a little more involved then the network closet you oversee.
    10-12-11 10:02 PM
  22. collide.six's Avatar
    People shouldn't be too worried about the SSL vulnerability as most vendors already have or are working on updates to their applications to address it. The exploit requires a compromised system which is very unlikely on an smartphone.
    Blackberry themselves have had their fair share of security vulnerabilities and exploits with their software and devices over the years, literally dozens and dozens. I know because I've spent a lot of time patching and performing other fixes to our BES servers and devices. A lot of people think Blackberry security is the light years better than anything else and that other smartphones totally lack any security. That's just simply not the case. Any iPhone has strong email encryption from the server to the phone using HTTPS, which 99% of the secure websites run on by the way, like your bank and credit card company. An iPhone also has strong AES device encryption so all emails on the phone are encrypted. There are over 500,000 apps in the apps store and only a few have been found to be malicous and those were immediately removed. Apple has a good security model around it it works well and is trusted.
    By the way with the release of iOS 5 Apple has added about 4 or 5 more things that work with ActiveSync and Exchange.

    You know things are bad when your CEO has to apologize publicly and beg for forgiveness so what's left of their customer base doesn't jump ship. Yep, frankly I believe I could implement a network infrastructure better than RIM has. I would've decentralized it and used something thats already out there and has tons of redundancy and reliablility already built in, something that has been time tested and proven itself well over the last 30 years. Its called the internet. RIM's infrastuctre model is outdated and stale just like their phones.
    Last edited by collide.six; 10-13-11 at 05:45 PM.
    10-13-11 05:34 PM
  23. Frank Castle's Avatar
    People shouldn't be too worried about the SSL vulnerability as most vendors already have or are working on updates to their applications to address it. The exploit requires a compromised system which is very unlikely on an smartphone.
    Blackberry themselves have had their fair share of security vulnerabilities and exploits with their software and devices over the years, literally dozens and dozens. I know because I've spent a lot of time patching and performing other fixes to our BES servers and devices. A lot of people think Blackberry security is the light years better than anything else and that other smartphones totally lack any security. That's just simply not the case. Any iPhone has strong email encryption from the server to the phone using HTTPS, which 99% of the secure websites run on by the way, like your bank and credit card company. An iPhone also has strong AES device encryption so all emails on the phone are encrypted. There are over 500,000 apps in the apps store and only a few have been found to be malicous and those were immediately removed. Apple has a good security model around it it works well and is trusted.
    By the way with the release of iOS 5 Apple has added about 4 or 5 more things that work with ActiveSync and Exchange.

    You know things are bad when your CEO has to apologize publicly and beg for forgiveness so what's left of their customer base doesn't jump ship. Yep, frankly I believe I could implement a network infrastructure better than RIM has. I would've decentralized it and used something thats already out there and has tons of redundancy and reliablility already built in, something that has been time tested and proven itself well over the last 30 years. Its called the internet. RIM's infrastuctre model is outdated and stale just like their phones.

    Maybe I'm crazy but didn't Steve Job's have a whole special event to discuss iPhone 4 dropped calls and give out free bumpers? When a company has an issue the CEO steps forward and explains. Would you rather RIM just issue a press release? (Actually that is their norm it seems).

    I can show you in 10 mins how secure your iPhone is. Apple's fault is they keep the encryption key on the device. With easily obtained software your iDevice can be hacked and dumped with little effort, remove the SIM - poof no more EAS communication to remote wipe.

    What system does not have security issues? RIM has patched issues as they crop up (PDF one is annoying) but for each issue there is a work around (policy) if being secure is your primary concern. It's all about risk and evaluation. Almost every Blackberry risk requires physical access to the device. BES provides controls to minimize those risks, password attempts, phone home, password criteria. On top of that it's FIPS encrypted. Has Apple been awarded any accliam?

    We get it .. you like shiny new hardware. Enjoy it. The 9930 is comparable. It's not an App phone nor is it a 4" monster with dual core but it provides a solid communication device and that my friend is what 95% of people use these devices for.
    10-13-11 10:54 PM
  24. Economist101's Avatar
    Isn't that where Apple is heading too with iCloud and iMessage?
    The difference being that an iCloud outage won't prevent iPhones from browsing the web or running apps, and wouldn't disrupt e-mail outside of what iCloud itself offers. Similarly, if iMessage goes down, messages are sent as SMS instead.
    10-13-11 11:18 PM
  25. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    The difference being that an iCloud outage won't prevent iPhones from browsing the web or running apps, and wouldn't disrupt e-mail outside of what iCloud itself offers. Similarly, if iMessage goes down, messages are sent as SMS instead.
    Yes, exactly, resulting in international sms charges as Blaize found out(I remember him posting about it)

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-14-11 12:05 AM
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