[NursingNinja]

This has been blogged about by crackberry kevin and his gang already on their podcasts.

[randall2580]

Isn't BIS at least part of the reason why I cannot get MLB baseball games on my 9810 and perhaps HULU/Bloomberg on my PlayBook? That by insisting to push data through the BlackBerry servers creates problems that other phones and tablets don't have? I am asking as I am not sure I understand completely - but we can't have our cake and eat it too. We are asking BlackBerry to give us media on our devices and so they are going to need to address the things that keep the applications we want away from us no - and one of those things might be BIS?

[M.Rizk]

Isn't BIS at least part of the reason why I cannot get MLB baseball games on my 9810 and perhaps HULU/Bloomberg on my PlayBook? That by insisting to push data through the BlackBerry servers creates problems that other phones and tablets don't have? I am asking as I am not sure I understand completely - but we can't have our cake and eat it too. We are asking BlackBerry to give us media on our devices and so they are going to need to address the things that keep the applications we want away from us no - and one of those things might be BIS?

Wake up. It's the Java platform on the current BlackBerry devices that limits you. And PlayBook doesn't use BIS anyway. It's Hulu that blocked PlayBook access to it and refused to make an app.

BIS is just like your ADSL connection it's just a connection but with RIM Flavoring(Compression of Data, Acceleration, BBM Servers). Hope you understand it now.

[randall2580]

Wake up. It's the Java platform on the current BlackBerry devices that limits you. And PlayBook doesn't use BIS anyway. It's Hulu that blocked PlayBook access to it and refused to make an app.

BIS is just like your ADSL connection it's just a connection but with RIM Flavoring(Compression of Data, Acceleration, BBM Servers). Hope you understand it now.

Your explanation is understood and appreciated. Your "wake up" was not.

[dfb8085]

If they get rid of BIS what are we going to do? I mean no more true push email. Be jus tike a android phone

[xandermac]

No offense OP, but we simply you simply can't be taken seriously without a legit source. While it may be true that you know some Blackberry employees, we have no way to confirm this and anyone with a computer and internet connection can make up a story and post it up here. We need a solid source.

When you consider RIM is moving to exchange activesync and that carriers won't be willing to pay a RIM tax on a service that's free on any other platform it starts to make sense.

Here is the way I see it going and I'll use AT&T as an example.

For the standard $30 data fee you will be able to use a blackberry with all non-BIS functionality. If you wish to use any BIS functions it will cost you an additional monthly fee which the carrier could pay to RIM.

I'm not sure which functions will be untethered from the BIS but I imagine email and Web browsing will be purely IP based. I actually think the only remaining BIS functions will be BlackBerry messenger. The playbook has shown that Facebook, for example, does not need BIS to operate and I'm sure that hasn't gone unnoticed by the carriers.

I believe this separation will occur with the release of blackberry 10 phones.

Sent from my iPhone4s using Tapatalk

[xandermac]

Oops...........

[Muttypint]

I really hope this thread is just another joke, if RIM gives up BIS they are basically done.

[Thud Hardsmack]

I have the idea that BIS adds a layer of data security that direct connected "others" don't have. I'm not networking educated, so feel free to set me straight, but the BIS makes me feel a little less nervous about paying my bills, buying things online, etc.

You're using the same mobile connection everyone else is using. BIS comes after the connection to the carriers' towers.

[moa999]

Had a chat to a staff member at a Bb10Jam event. Comment was that BES is definitely staying, BIS still up in the air.

Would be very useful in countries where some operators don't support BIS.
I'm forced to use Opera on my 9700, which incidentally also does a good job of compressing on the fly.

[_StephenBB81]

I wonder if the OP's source has heard from Thorsten who said that RIM will Continue to make money off of their infrastructure.

BIS/BES MAKE RIM money, not cost them money, so I really question the source of this.

[allengeorge]

Dropping BIS makes sense. There are multiple problems with the BIS model:

• It forces all traffic through the NOC making it a central (I think there are multiple geographically-distributed nodes nodes, but still) point of failure
• The NOC has to scale as the volume of internet traffic scales. Since internet traffic is increasing rapidly, this is costly and untenable
• As carrier infrastructure improves and devices get smarter you can put a lot of the intelligence at the endpoints (device, server serving up content) instead of putting in an intermediate node
• The NOC was built at a time when network connectivity was far less 'ubiquitous' than now. Now lots of carriers will have their own in-house data-centre (though maybe RIM should go to them and say "we can do it better, cheaper, more secure and faster")

I suspect that a NOC of some form will always exist, but I don't think there's value in transcoding content. I think there's huge value in data aggregation for cross-device searching, providing a cross-device data-space, enabling unified presence, etc.,

[Superfly_FR]

I suspect that a NOC of some form will always exist, but I don't think there's value in transcoding content. I think there's huge value in data aggregation for cross-device searching, providing a cross-device data-space, enabling unified presence, etc.,

It's nowadays called "the cloud" ... and RIM almost invented it.
Now, about data : compression is what carriers/enterprises with struggling bandwidth want.
RIM has a real expertise in that domain, delivering "what needs to be delivered, at the best accurate format for your device".

<speculation zone>
QNX operates a widely deployed Networking/telecom devices ... So that I won't be surprised to hear about some "new compression standards/methods" with QCP (QNX Communication Protocol).
I believe it's a part of what RIM calls a "platform" experience.
</speculation zone>

[daveycrocket]

Dropping BIS makes sense. There are multiple problems with the BIS model:

• It forces all traffic through the NOC making it a central (I think there are multiple geographically-distributed nodes nodes, but still) point of failure
• The NOC has to scale as the volume of internet traffic scales. Since internet traffic is increasing rapidly, this is costly and untenable
• As carrier infrastructure improves and devices get smarter you can put a lot of the intelligence at the endpoints (device, server serving up content) instead of putting in an intermediate node
• The NOC was built at a time when network connectivity was far less 'ubiquitous' than now. Now lots of carriers will have their own in-house data-centre (though maybe RIM should go to them and say "we can do it better, cheaper, more secure and faster")

I suspect that a NOC of some form will always exist, but I don't think there's value in transcoding content. I think there's huge value in data aggregation for cross-device searching, providing a cross-device data-space, enabling unified presence, etc.,

I just finished reading your web site, you wouldn't be biased by any chance

[VerryBestr]

I wonder if the OP's source has heard from Thorsten who said that RIM will Continue to make money off of their infrastructure. BIS/BES MAKE RIM money, not cost them money, so I really question the source of this.

I think that Thorsten Heins was pretty clear that RIM will be changing its strategy, at least in the U.S. I'll repost an earlier post of mine:

| http://forums.crackberry.com/news-ru...ession-734395/

Another quote from the Heins interview with Al Sacco -- here is the link to the single page "print" version:
| RIM CEO on What Went Wrong and the Future of BlackBerry

"We had a very, very successful recipe of what BlackBerry was all about. There were four main pillars: battery life; typing; security; and compression. Then there was a shift with LTE. With LTE it was important actually not to save network resources, it was important to load the networks, to sell data plans and sell data volume. We didn't miss on innovation. I think we missed on understanding, specifically in the U.S., that this trend was shifting, and that our positioning and our value proposition in the U.S. market was not following that trend shift."

This is pretty clear evidence, I believe, that BIS will not move much data for the BB10 phones, at least not in North America. RIM's network will probably be used for the BB10 phone the way it is used for the PlayBook, to help with email setup. BBM could transit on BIS. There may be some kind of new cloud service on BIS. Perhaps some email will move on the BIS network, but perhaps not.

But I believe that web traffic will be completely independant of BIS (no compression and no encryption). The above quote certainly seems to point in this direction.

[Superfly_FR]

There may be some kind of new cloud service on BIS. Perhaps some email will move on the BIS network, but perhaps not.

MS + RIM = BlackBerry - Business Cloud Services for Microsoft Office 365 - US

[_StephenBB81]

I think that Thorsten Heins was pretty clear that RIM will be changing its strategy, at least in the U.S. I'll repost an earlier post of mine:

| http://forums.crackberry.com/news-ru...ession-734395/

Another quote from the Heins interview with Al Sacco -- here is the link to the single page "print" version:
| RIM CEO on What Went Wrong and the Future of BlackBerry

"We had a very, very successful recipe of what BlackBerry was all about. There were four main pillars: battery life; typing; security; and compression. Then there was a shift with LTE. With LTE it was important actually not to save network resources, it was important to load the networks, to sell data plans and sell data volume. We didn't miss on innovation. I think we missed on understanding, specifically in the U.S., that this trend was shifting, and that our positioning and our value proposition in the U.S. market was not following that trend shift."

This is pretty clear evidence, I believe, that BIS will not move much data for the BB10 phones, at least not in North America. RIM's network will probably be used for the BB10 phone the way it is used for the PlayBook, to help with email setup. BBM could transit on BIS. There may be some kind of new cloud service on BIS. Perhaps some email will move on the BIS network, but perhaps not.

But I believe that web traffic will be completely independant of BIS (no compression and no encryption). The above quote certainly seems to point in this direction.

Web traffic, and Content consumption would bypass BIS, but I see no reason to not continue to use BIS for email, and RIM enabled apps. only data hungry needs could by pass BIS,

[Masahiro]

According to a knowyourmobile interview with a developer, he was quoted as saying:

"Not highlighted, but definitely important is to understand their existing Cloud services will still be there (push notifications, background processes, etc). BlackBerry Notifications are one of the strongest features of the BlackBerry Platform. Their little star isn't an iconic icon for nothing. The various ways you get notified (visual, in message list, pop-up) and how you can act on that notification are the crack in the berry and that is still much very much a part of BB10."

Of course, it could mean either true push e-mail or the pseudo-push e-mail like on other platforms.

[VerryBestr]

Web traffic, and Content consumption would bypass BIS, but I see no reason to not continue to use BIS for email, and RIM enabled apps. only data hungry needs could by pass BIS,

I agree, that's one possibility. I would imagine that BIS would, in any case, continue for pre-BB10 devices. In many countries, BIS is a real advantage for RIM.

[_StephenBB81]

I agree, that's one possibility. I would imagine that BIS would, in any case, continue for pre-BB10 devices. In many countries, BIS is a real advantage for RIM.

even in countries with high data caps like the US, BIS ads value, a compressed BBM message gets out in an emergency situation better than a SMS message or other data required tools
Going to Events Like Friday the 13th at Port Dover Ontario very much will show the value of BIS for consumer events, which 200,000 people or so in a small town for a celebration the cell towers get over loaded, the only consistent way of communicating with minimal dropped messages is via BBM.

the "secure tunnel" of BIS also is attractive to anyone developing banking apps, there can be no DNS redirect of the device if the app is made to operate within the BIS, this isn't the case outside, I do believe the latest Apple hack was a DNS issue... I could be wrong as I don't go and revel in security vulnerability threads.


Now I do HOPE that RIM embraces the Original mobile cloud that BIS is, and bring users feature sets that are use to define the cloud today such as data storage/sharing interactive web features, and possibly a webmail account

[VerryBestr]

... it could mean either true push e-mail or the pseudo-push e-mail like on other platforms.

The PlayBook has real push email for Exchange ActiveSync accounts (like gmail) and for IMAP. It implements this push email by simply implementing the protocols that are defined for this, without using BIS.

To the extent that these EAS and IMAP protocols are implemented on other platforms, they also have real push email rather than some kind of "pseudo-push" email.

iOS has implemented EAS push email. There also a non-standard form of real push email for Yahoo email and for Apple's own email system. Apple has effectively barred third party apps from implementing IMAP push email. However, I have read that one app (named iBisMail) has gotten around Apple's restrictions by describing itself as an audio app (because it can handle voicemail). Being an audio app, iOS allows it to remain active, which allows it to handle standard IMAP push email.

As far as I know, the standard Android email app does not implement push email for IMAP. The more recent versions of Android do implement push email for EAS accounts. There are third party apps which handle IMAP push email.

For POP accounts, there is really no such thing as "true" push email. In RIM's solution, its servers continually poll a POP account to see if new email has arrived. When new email is detected, the RIM servers alert a BB phone and send it the new email. So at least the phone is spared the energy-expensive task of rapid polling.

So, for POP email, RIM could continue with server polling. When new email is detected, the RIM servers could continue sending the email to BB10 phones as it does for current phones. However, there is an alternative: The RIM servers could simply alert a BB10 phone that new email has arrived so that the phone could go download the email itself. Or, RIM could simply decide that the POP standard is so old and dated that push support will be dropped in BB10.

[AlienSlacker]

I really hope this thread is just another joke, if RIM gives up BIS they are basically done.

I really wouldn't sweat it. Unless Rim actually comes out and publicly states it BIS is not going anywhere. Anything else is just armchair quarterbacking.

[VerryBestr]

... Now I do HOPE that RIM embraces the Original mobile cloud that BIS is, and bring users feature sets that are use to define the cloud today such as data storage/sharing interactive web features, and possibly a webmail account

The problem is to make this a win-win situation for RIM and the carriers.

In the past, carriers were happy to push BB phones and kick back part of the monthly data subscription. BB phones helped the carriers attract customers from dumb phones to smartphones and buy data plans. BIS also helped reduce the traffic on the carriers' connections to the internet.

But in the near future, I don't think the BB10 phones will help the carriers move customers up to smartphones. It looks like the BIS data traffic will be minimal. I don't think the carriers will be willing to pay anything for BIS.

So either RIM finances the service from hardware profits, or RIM manages to sell this optional service to BB phone users. Perhaps RIM could finance a basic free package by selling a premium package. That seems to be the preferred model for the popular cloud storage providers.

You've mentioned some interesting services that RIM could provide, and there may be some other possibilities. I just don't think the carriers will be interested in pushing these services for RIM, unless they get a share of the money. Unless these services are free or optional, people will complain that BB subscriptions are more expensive than subscriptions to competitors.

The secure banking idea sounds great. But would the carriers be interested in talking this up, and thus suggesting that other smartphones may be insecure? The US carriers have invested a lot of money in building up the Android image, and Sprint has committed to selling a whole lot of iPhones.

How do you see a "BIS 2" service being commercialized and becoming a commercial success for RIM?

[_StephenBB81]

The problem is to make this a win-win situation for RIM and the carriers.

In the past, carriers were happy to push BB phones and kick back part of the monthly data subscription. BB phones helped the carriers attract customers from dumb phones to smartphones and buy data plans. BIS also helped reduce the traffic on the carriers' connections to the internet.

But in the near future, I don't think the BB10 phones will help the carriers move customers up to smartphones. It looks like the BIS data traffic will be minimal. I don't think the carriers will be willing to pay anything for BIS.

So either RIM finances the service from hardware profits, or RIM manages to sell this optional service to BB phone users. Perhaps RIM could finance a basic free package by selling a premium package. That seems to be the preferred model for the popular cloud storage providers.

You've mentioned some interesting services that RIM could provide, and there may be some other possibilities. I just don't think the carriers will be interested in pushing these services for RIM, unless they get a share of the money. Unless these services are free or optional, people will complain that BB subscriptions are more expensive than subscriptions to competitors.

The secure banking idea sounds great. But would the carriers be interested in talking this up, and thus suggesting that other smartphones may be insecure? The US carriers have invested a lot of money in building up the Android image, and Sprint has committed to selling a whole lot of iPhones.

How do you see a "BIS 2" service being commercialized and becoming a commercial success for RIM?

I disagree that BB10 wont be able to bring users TO smartphones form dumbphones, IF RIM still has BIS, and still can control dataflow, Carriers can offer Low cost "data" options for unlimited socialnetworking with RIM apps like they do now in Canada, (minus the low cost currently) as a transition to get users to have smartphones over dumb phones, and get used to being always connected

NOW how RIM makes BIS important to the carrier
1: Webmail client for Carrier.blackberry.net email address, get users using that email address, it becomes an ISP email address that many of us "old timer" internet users still use.
2: Cloud based storage options tied to your BIS & webmail account, with Carrier Billing options for additional space/bandwidth, now your carrier can make money off your your BIS account integrated with the smartphone sale,
3: lower data consumption services for full features, Carriers can offer smaller packages giving higher cost per MB for day usage but lower over all costs the the consumer who isn't a power user, carriers are losing out on SMS revenue more and more, letting users get into the IM applications but using the smallest data footprint is good for the carriers as they move to tiered billing models, get users hooked on 200MB of data, then they need to upgrade to 500MB, the 1GB etc etc, the plans grow with usage.
4: RIM does carrier billing through app world, which is BIS managed if RIM ties more services in which the carriers get their cut, that is something the other manufacturers are not doing