12-07-11 10:07 PM
259 ... 7891011
tools
  1. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    I agree, as a Power user I certainly wouldn't want to be stuck with ONLY out of the box, BUT of all the platforms you can be assured that BlackBerry has the largest user base of Out of the box users.

    My 8330 was out of the box it's entire life, NO settings were permitted to be changed. and many enterprise users face the same restrictions that their out of the box RIM designed experience is the only experience they are permitted, no app world, heck many with no access to a browser either in my experience,

    It isn't a pleasant one, but I just noticed that post, and felt that it was very flawed as it was stated.
    By choice?

    This is, arguably, part of the reason BB is not the big draw it once was. It's core functionality is restricted closely to the out-of-box state by corporate policy and absence of third-party apps.

    And I know it is semantics, but I do think an argument can be made that the apps are a part of the native platform experience for Apple.
    11-27-11 10:59 PM
  2. Economist101's Avatar
    Not all ip users is completely happy.
    There's no group of users for any device that's "completely" happy. No one disputes this, except the imaginary commenter you seem to be refuting.

    So because I like my BB I have to read all this BS in a forum I come to get help and help others to learn or fix their. BBs?
    It has nothing to do with you or your BB, and everything to do with your decision to visit and follow this thread.

    I mean if the other platforms is all that what's the atraction of sneaking around a BlackBerry forum? SMH
    I'm guessing it's for the sheer entertainment value.
    11-27-11 11:03 PM
  3. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    By choice?

    This is, arguably, part of the reason BB is not the big draw it once was. It's core functionality is restricted closely to the out-of-box state by corporate policy and absence of third-party apps.

    And I know it is semantics, but I do think an argument can be made that the apps are a part of the native platform experience for Apple.
    BUT the "native Apple experience" requires work, you can't hand an Employee a device and it be the same device for every employee, once it requires the customizing it is no longer out of the box.


    I VERY much agree this is actually where many people get turned off BlackBerry, they are given a work issued OS5 BlackBerry restricted to exactly what the company wants, then their kid gets an iPhone and downloads 100 apps, BlackBerry sucks I want an iPhone they say to IT, IT realizes well the iPhone without Apps wont be as productive and have to change their stance.


    were we will probably disagree is
    "Platform experience" does NOT equal "out of the box experience"

    EDIT:
    I didn't address "By Choice"
    Actually YES even by choice I'd say the largest percentage of users who don't change their phone from purchase are still BlackBerry users. since the BlackBerry out of the box experiences isn't made to encourage downloading further functionality, everything is visible, and they provide the KEY things on the home screen, email, phone, calendar, social networking apps, chat apps, everything comes preinstalled for a moderate user experience, and because the lack of quality/consistent apps there is less desire and less public pressure to look for and download apps.

    Not saying that is a good thing at all, I think Apps are over pushed,but they certainly make sense in so many cases.
    Last edited by deRusett; 11-27-11 at 11:10 PM.
    11-27-11 11:06 PM
  4. 13echo4's Avatar
    There's no group of users for any device that's "completely" happy. No one disputes this, except the imaginary commenter you seem to be refuting.
    It has nothing to do with you or your BB, and everything to do with your decision to visit and follow this thread.
    I'm guessing it's for the sheer entertainment value.
    So the arguement isn't that androids and ips is better because they make everybody happy or has what every body has? Or better said Rim isn't like them and have what everybody wants? Then I guess I really missed the point.
    I'm actually following this thread because like the OP I feel like people are going to complain no matter what. My involvement in the thread is to show that everybody isn't completely happy with the other platforms. And that my experance w/ Rim isn't just an OS thing nor is it just a device thing Its both. Ah its entertaining coming and harassing people in the BB forums? I doubt it though. I take it yall have make yourselves believe in the choice yall made.
    11-28-11 12:01 AM
  5. 13echo4's Avatar
    There's no group of users for any device that's "completely" happy. No one disputes this, except the imaginary commenter you seem to be refuting.
    It has nothing to do with you or your BB, and everything to do with your decision to visit and follow this thread.
    I'm guessing it's for the sheer entertainment value.
    So the argument isn't that androids and ips is better because they make everybody happy or has what every body wants? Or better said Rim isn't like them and have what everybody wants? Then I guess I really missed the point.
    I'm actually following this thread because like the OP I feel like people are going to complain no matter what. My involvement in the thread is to show that everybody isn't completely happy with the other platforms. And that my experience w/ Rim isn't just an OS thing nor is it just a device thing Its both. Ah its entertaining coming and harassing people in the BB forums? I doubt it though. I take it yall have to make yourselves believe in the choice yall made.
    Last edited by 13echo4; 11-28-11 at 12:24 AM.
    11-28-11 12:18 AM
  6. 13echo4's Avatar
    Just to trump some of the points. Ip3g's last update was ios4.2. It won't beable to run 4.3 or 5.0. Ip3gs might not run ios6. Ip3 didn't have video taking abilities nor could it sent pictures via txt messages or receive them. Custom ring tones and email where also no nos. It wasn't until 2009 until apple started addressing these flaws. Let's not talk about the document nightmares. 2007 is when Rim started directing some attention to. Demestic sales. So Rim entered the market world way ahead of every body. Rim isn't behind as yall might think. The storm didn't take the market well by storm but it was on the vzm carrier. What if it had been on the at&t carrier. It might have done better. It might have slowed down the rise of the iphone. That's one thing to consider. Iphone had 4 yrs sitting on a carrier with no challengers. Yall can play the what ifs and this is going to happen all yall want to. I'm just going to enjoy my BB torch until what ever replaces it. If I was a betting man I would bet it would be another BB.
    11-28-11 01:01 AM
  7. moiselles's Avatar
    But you downloaded and installed Tapatalk?
    Thus not perfect.

    NOTHING Wrong with installing apps, I install apps on my BlackBerry, just saying that out of box perfection is not the case,
    Please don't twist my words, Stephen. There is a huge difference between jailbreaking an iPhone and installing an app.


    Sent from my iPhone4S using Tapatalk
    Last edited by moiselles; 11-28-11 at 05:42 AM.
    11-28-11 05:39 AM
  8. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Please don't twist my words, Stephen. There is a huge difference between jailbreaking an iPhone and installing an app.


    Sent from my iPhone4S using Tapatalk
    No intention of twisting your words heather.

    The Out Of the BOX experience needed enhancements, you like gadgets and play with them, but you enhanced it, like anyone else would. my statement purely was that out of the box was NOT perfect for you, you did need to enhance with apps.

    Jailbreaking and adding apps, are only marginally different.
    11-28-11 05:53 AM
  9. moiselles's Avatar
    Downloading apps are a basic function of any smartphone. Therefore, TO ME, that seems pretty stock. Jailbreaking changes many things about the device, from the look to how the device performs even. That is not stock.

    Again, jailbreaking is different than downloading an app. I've jail broken an iPhone before. I know the difference.


    Sent from my iPhone4S using Tapatalk
    11-28-11 05:58 AM
  10. Blackberry_boffin's Avatar
    Is everyone still hammering at this topic?
    Then chew on this:-
    iPhone 'Self Combusts' on Australian Flight - The Next Web
    11-28-11 06:29 AM
  11. 13echo4's Avatar
    Again, jailbreaking is different than downloading an app. I've jail broken an iPhone before. I know the difference.

    Sent from my iPhone4S using Tapatalk
    No not really. Jail breaking is done so you can run 3rd party apps. That's just about it. Prior to ip4 after jail breaking you would unlock the phone. Now that cones more practual since they now have a cdma version.
    11-28-11 06:43 AM
  12. moiselles's Avatar
    But it's not just for third party apps. It expands the features limited by Apple, thus changing the device, which is the reason why most people choose to jailbreak their devices. Apps enhance. Jailbreaking changes, or can, depending on how the user chooses to use their jailbreak. There is a difference.

    This is completely off topic of the original thread. I'm done.


    Sent from my iPhone4S using Tapatalk
    11-28-11 07:00 AM
  13. sam_b77's Avatar
    But it's not just for third party apps. It expands the features limited by Apple, thus changing the device, which is the reason why most people choose to jailbreak their devices. Apps enhance. Jailbreaking changes, or can, depending on how the user chooses to use their jailbreak. There is a difference.

    This is completely off topic of the original thread. I'm done.


    Sent from my iPhone4S using Tapatalk
    The point being that Apple IS restricting certain capabilities which the user wants/needs but which do not sit with Apple's model. No foul on Apple's part here.
    BB does the same thing and allows their primary market up till now (Enterprise) the ability to restrict user experience.

    Jailbreaking an iPhone to get what the user wants is ok and largely I don't look down upon the device simply because it has to be jailbroken to get certain functionality.
    But the essence of this discussion centered on the fact that No Device is Perfect and power users, the ones who frequent these forums are not satisfied with out of the box experience on any platform.

    The difference here is that RIM security is such that no one has been able to Jailbreak/Root the device. That is a plus point for RIM IMO.

    Also even Apple frowns upon Jailbreaking. Every update can potentially lock down a jailbroken iPhone. Its just that they haven't been able to figure out how to stop people from jail breaking in the first place. RIM has.

    Google hardly cares about rooting etc as it is basically an Open Source OS. And rooted or not Google's business model of Ads is still intact.
    However the Amazon Fire has shown a way out of by passing Google's business model by setting up their own App store and using their own servers to deliver internet on to the Fire. Google is still trying to figure out what happened here. Android is open source so they can't ask money for it, and google ads etc won't be delivered on the Fire. Seems Fire might have opened up a can of worms for Android. Imagine if Samsung and HTC run with this idea and launch parallel App Stores and bypass google for internet.
    Things would change for Android.

    Again I might have understood the Fire implementation incorrectly. Maybe Howeramat can explain better here, seeing that he follows Androids more closely.
    11-28-11 07:28 AM
  14. moiselles's Avatar
    Absolutely agree there is no perfect device.

    However, FOR ME, the iPhone4S is pretty darn close to it, even without jailbreak.


    Sent from my iPhone4S using Tapatalk
    Last edited by moiselles; 11-28-11 at 07:41 AM.
    11-28-11 07:38 AM
  15. sam_b77's Avatar
    @moiselles,
    Like your signature:
    "Women who strive to be equal to men lack ambition."
    As a foot note is it because it's a futile exercise on the part of Women?
    11-28-11 07:49 AM
  16. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Downloading apps are a basic function of any smartphone. Therefore, TO ME, that seems pretty stock. Jailbreaking changes many things about the device, from the look to how the device performs even. That is not stock.

    Again, jailbreaking is different than downloading an app. I've jail broken an iPhone before. I know the difference.


    Sent from my iPhone4S using Tapatalk

    Download apps are an accepted practice of all smartphones, but an app, like Jailbreaking is to add missing functionality to the device, be it a better email handler, a better way of editing photos a better way to interact with forums, Jailbreaking takes it to the level of "super app" releasing functions not usually accessible, and allowing more features. though this isn't really my point.

    my point is Out of the BOX, is what you purchase off the shelf, When I purchase a power drill, out of the box I get 1 Drill bit, and usually a double sided screwdriver bit. that is OUT of the Box, extended out of the box functionality is when I buy more drill bits, it is expected, but it still is out of the box, jail breaking is like when I use a wooden shim and duct tape to use a battery from another drill brand on my drill because it is lighter and cheaper than my drill brand.

    I'm certainly not attacking your choice to go iPhone, you're clearly happier and your dogs have never been more photogenic, my comment purely was on the perception of out of the box.
    11-28-11 08:29 AM
  17. 13echo4's Avatar
    Absolutely agree there is no perfect device.

    However, FOR ME, the iPhone4S is pretty darn close to it, even without jailbreak.
    Sent from my iPhone4S using Tapatalk
    See we agree. The ip is perfect for a lot of people. My wife being one of em. She's had ever ip since the 2g. I don't like em. Its just me.
    Its so tiresome for us BB users when every time we start talking about Rim and what we think and see coming up we're hijacked by fan boys of the other platforms. And a lot of them don't even understand the platform they so love. Point here is if we wanted to discuss android or ios we would go to their set aside sections.
    Point here is if Rim tries to be like android and apple they will always be behind plus there's millions of us that doesn't a ip or droid. So then where do "we" go?
    Closer to topic, its been mentioned Rim lieing about what's coming out and being late to release products. What about apple? Ip5 was pushed off and then turned into ip4s. What gives? Now yall just assume that its Rim's fault they are late. Well what if you knew that the cpu's was delivered behind schedule. Or other parts got behind. Theirs more to bringing a device to market then going into the back room and going thru a tub of parts or ordering em from newegg.
    Here's a question. If we're happy w/ what we got and your truely happy with what you have why not just leave us alone? Oh yea the entertaiment aspect. I guess yall's devices really isn't all that entertaining.
    11-28-11 09:45 AM
  18. sam_b77's Avatar
    See we agree. The ip is perfect for a lot of people. My wife being one of em. She's had ever ip since the 2g. I don't like em. Its just me.
    Its so tiresome for us BB users when every time we start talking about Rim and what we think and see coming up we're hijacked by fan boys of the other platforms. And a lot of them don't even understand the platform they so love. Point here is if we wanted to discuss android or ios we would go to their set aside sections.
    Point here is if Rim tries to be like android and apple they will always be behind plus there's millions of us that doesn't a ip or droid. So then where do "we" go?
    Closer to topic, its been mentioned Rim lieing about what's coming out and being late to release products. What about apple? Ip5 was pushed off and then turned into ip4s. What gives? Now yall just assume that its Rim's fault they are late. Well what if you knew that the cpu's was delivered behind schedule. Or other parts got behind. Theirs more to bringing a device to market then going into the back room and going thru a tub of parts or ordering em from newegg.
    Here's a question. If we're happy w/ what we got and your truely happy with what you have why not just leave us alone? Oh yea the entertaiment aspect. I guess yall's devices really isn't all that entertaining.
    You know what this is so true. My cousins are in USA and they are all about the iPhone. One of them is just coming back home over the vacations.
    I called her up to ask her to pick up two Playbooks at the discounted price and all I heard was peals of laughter.

    She know how I love my BB, and she just went on and on about how the BB is basically just trash and how their stock price is so low and that RIM is basically dead and gone. She was like its high time I upgraded to new tech. Maybe this is why there is such an aggressive response from RIM fans.

    I just let it go and told her to do as I ask. I'm waiting for her to get back to India. Will take her out for partying where all my friends and random people only have BB's and they are the one who laugh at iPhones. Will return the favor for sure
    Last edited by sam_b77; 11-28-11 at 10:27 AM.
    11-28-11 10:21 AM
  19. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Closer to topic, its been mentioned Rim lieing about what's coming out and being late to release products. What about apple? Ip5 was pushed off and then turned into ip4s. What gives? Now yall just assume that its Rim's fault they are late. Well what if you knew that the cpu's was delivered behind schedule. Or other parts got behind. Theirs more to bringing a device to market then going into the back room and going thru a tub of parts or ordering em from newegg.
    The difference is that Apple never said there was going to be an iPhone5 released at a particular time. It was all speculation by the bloggers and the media. Neither Jobs nor Cook actually announced it. There was actually nothing announced by Apple officials prior to their event.

    That is different than Lazaridis or Balsillie mentioning "60 days", "end of summer", or some other time frame, and then RIM failing to deliver.
    Moonbase0ne likes this.
    11-28-11 10:28 AM
  20. 13echo4's Avatar
    The difference is that Apple never said there was going to be an iPhone5 released at a particular time. It was all speculation by the bloggers and the media. Neither Jobs nor Cook actually announced it. There was actually nothing announced by Apple officials prior to their event.

    That is different than Lazaridis or Balsillie mentioning "60 days", "end of summer", or some other time frame, and then RIM failing to deliver.
    Was there not a earlier this year date set and apple put it off ?I had thought apple was going to release in the same month in always does and at first extended it. I wouldn't hear it from a blogger. As I said my wife has ips and I keep an eye on the new releases so I can get her one.
    11-28-11 01:08 PM
  21. mokeikoberry's Avatar
    The difference is that Apple never said there was going to be an iPhone5 released at a particular time. It was all speculation by the bloggers and the media. Neither Jobs nor Cook actually announced it. There was actually nothing announced by Apple officials prior to their event.

    That is different than Lazaridis or Balsillie mentioning "60 days", "end of summer", or some other time frame, and then RIM failing to deliver.
    +1

    mokeiko
    11-28-11 01:34 PM
  22. Phil DeLong's Avatar
    Was there not a earlier this year date set and apple put it off ?I had thought apple was going to release in the same month in always does and at first extended it.
    No, once again people assumed that it would come in the Spring, but Apple never made a promise that it would.
    11-28-11 01:45 PM
  23. avt123's Avatar
    So what's your arguement again? Probaly?

    There is nothing to argue about. It is a fact that the majority of iPhone users are not jailbroken. It's not that they "probably" aren't. It's that they aren't, period. There are millions who are, but that number is much smaller than the ones who aren't.

    Well I tried to concent that the majority of the ips isn't JB. I can't prove it either way.
    I am sure you can find a link to a poll that has accurate representations of the iOS market and you will find the numbers. Many Apple sites usually post the info when it comes out.

    Matter of fact I know more people w/ JB ips than not. Still though you haven't discredited my point. Not all ip users is completely happy.
    I never said all of them were happy. I never disagreed with you on that. There is no product in the world that every single one of the users are completely happy with.

    Is it not enough your happy or not? Do you have what you want? So because I like my BB I have to read all this BS in a forum I come to get help and help others to learn or fix their. BBs? I mean if the other platforms is all that what's the atraction of sneaking around a BlackBerry forum? SMH
    I'm not sneaking around anywhere. I am right here. Go ahead and learn, no one is stopping you. I am replying to a thread, that is all.

    Ignore threads you know you wont like, and ignore users of other platforms if you don't want to read their posts, simple as that.

    No one is making you read anything, just like no one made you reply as well.
    moiselles likes this.
    11-28-11 01:49 PM
  24. avt123's Avatar
    Was there not a earlier this year date set and apple put it off ?I had thought apple was going to release in the same month in always does and at first extended it. I wouldn't hear it from a blogger. As I said my wife has ips and I keep an eye on the new releases so I can get her one.
    Apple released iOS 5 beta in the Spring and said it will be released in the fall. The iPhone event usually happens in June though if I am not mistaken. This year was a little different.
    11-28-11 01:52 PM
  25. moiselles's Avatar
    I'm certainly not attacking your choice to go iPhone, you're clearly happier and your dogs have never been more photogenic, my comment purely was on the perception of out of the box.
    I know you aren't attacking. I didn't feel attacked. I know you wouldn't attack anyone's smartphone choice.

    I guess my perception of out of the box is different than yours. No need to worry about it.

    Haha, can you tell I love taking pics of my dogs? They get tired of always having my iPhone in their face. Lol.




    Sent from my iPhone4S using Tapatalk
    11-28-11 02:07 PM
259 ... 7891011
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD