12-07-11 10:07 PM
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  1. sam_b77's Avatar
    im not saying 2-3-4 years. I am just saying it should be able to support a OS that is released 10 months after the device is released.
    Matt,
    I'm surprised that you of all people are raising this issue.
    Normally the latest devices were upgradeable to the next OS. Bold 1 was upgradeable to OS 5, the 9700 was launched with OS 5 and yet it was upgradeable to OS6. So your 10 month time line was met.
    With OS7 you know better than most that RIM was in fire fighting mode. After the OS6 devices were launched people wanted more and they decided to up performance on OS7 and go with faster processors.

    Torch 1 etc would have been upgradeable to OS7 if OS7 was an incremental upgrade. The very thing for which you yourself have criticised RIM for many times.

    RIM needed a product line to compete in 2011 and their BBX is obviously not ready for their bread and butter devices. Hence they launched a boosted OS6 with better graphic support.
    BBX is completely different architecture. I doubt that RIM even knows what the final spec processor would be. They might be talking 1.5 Dual core, but the way tech is moving it could be higher and cheaper.

    How could RIM finalise what spec to give on a phone which is launched 10 months prior to BBX, when BBX itself is just in testing phase and its full requirements are unknown.
    It would have been a waste. You aren't just talking RAM here, you need to decide the screen resolution, GPU speed, no. of GPU's etc.

    They have let their customers know their strategy, and everyone knows that OS7 devices will not get BBX. I don't see where OS7 device buyers have a cause for complaint.
    Last edited by sam_b77; 11-25-11 at 08:46 AM.
    AZ87 likes this.
    11-25-11 08:42 AM
  2. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    im not saying 2-3-4 years. I am just saying it should be able to support a OS that is released 10 months after the device is released.
    I would agree IF we were talking about a Stable company.

    BUT RIM is going under some heavy changes, everyone wants RIM to execute NOW, but gets mad if they don't pay attention to all the past,

    OS7 devices were MAJOR jumps over OS6 devices, RIM HAD to do it, in reality OS6 devices were the Mistake, they should have held off launching the Torch/9780 and found ways to put 800mhz with hardware accelerated graphics into those early 2011, then the upgrade from OS6 to OS7 would have been possible, and they could have actually skipped releasing the 9810 and just upgraded the 9800 with an OS,

    but this is all hindsight clearly, RIM is trying to drastically change their business practices, and in doing so they can't worry about the next OS being backwards compatible until they have the next OS gaining back user support. they don't make money by giving you an upgraded OS, Google does since it is all about ad revenue, Apple does since it is all about enabling new App features, and service options,

    I suspect in Time RIM will when BBX is the OS but trying to make an OS work on a 6XXmhz processor and on a 1.2Mhz processor is not an easy task
    11-25-11 08:47 AM
  3. Branta's Avatar
    im not saying 2-3-4 years. I am just saying it should be able to support a OS that is released 10 months after the device is released.
    You know the unpredictable duration of the design and release cycle as well as anyone not directly involved, and you know product release date is completely irrelevant. If anyone else deliberately misinterpreted like this I would suspect a troll attempt, but you moderate other sites and wouldn't lower yourself to such tactics...
    11-25-11 09:50 AM
  4. Vanti's Avatar
    This is the perfect example of a troll. Dont care even if he has had every Rim device known to man. This thread isnt help people put trust or faith in Rim but is only diminishing their image and spreading doubt to those who are new to BB. If you buy a product and it doesn't meet up to your standards then its your own damn fault. Either do more research or goes somewhere and go hands on before you buy but don't blame the designer ...
    AZ87 likes this.
    11-25-11 02:27 PM
  5. moiselles's Avatar
    This is the perfect example of a troll. Dont care even if he has had every Rim device known to man. This thread isnt help people put trust or faith in Rim but is only diminishing their image and spreading doubt to those who are new to BB. If you buy a product and it doesn't meet up to your standards then its your own damn fault.Either do more research or goes somewhere and go hands on before you buy but don't blame the designer ...
    That's ridiculous. If I buy a shirt and the seam rips after only wearing it once, how is that my fault? Obviously I'm going to blame who I bought the shirt from. If the battery life on my iPhone4S is crap (which it's not), then I'm going to blame Apple. Or, if I buy a 9900 and 10 months later BBX comes out and I can't get BBX on my phone, I might be a little peeved that I now have a 10 month old 9900 that will never get a full software upgrade and I'm stuck in a two or three year contact. How is that a consumer's fault?

    Edited to add that your average consumer has NO clue what BBX is or that it won't be capable of running it on their OS7 device. All they'll know is that a new BB phone is coming out with new software and they won't be able to get it without paying full price for a BBX device. I know many of you have multiple BBs and don't mind paying full price for the latest and greatest BB device, but your average consumer cannot pay $500 or $600+ for a new phone each year one is rolled out.
    Last edited by moiselles; 11-25-11 at 03:30 PM.
    Shlooky likes this.
    11-25-11 03:23 PM
  6. AZ87's Avatar
    RIM can update and continues to update all their old phones. I see this whenever a new OS update is posted in the forums and it shoots to the top of commented on and viewed threads. Just because 0S7 isnt being upgraded to BBX doesnt mean RIM isnt going to continue to develop OS7 after BBX is released. The real stupid thing is people that don't seem to currently use BB devices are the ones complaining.
    11-25-11 03:51 PM
  7. sam_b77's Avatar
    That's ridiculous. If I buy a shirt and the seam rips after only wearing it once, how is that my fault? Obviously I'm going to blame who I bought the shirt from. If the battery life on my iPhone4S is crap (which it's not), then I'm going to blame Apple. Or, if I buy a 9900 and 10 months later BBX comes out and I can't get BBX on my phone, I might be a little peeved that I now have a 10 month old 9900 that will never get a full software upgrade and I'm stuck in a two or three year contact. How is that a consumer's fault?

    Edited to add that your average consumer has NO clue what BBX is or that it won't be capable of running it on their OS7 device. All they'll know is that a new BB phone is coming out with new software and they won't be able to get it without paying full price for a BBX device. I know many of you have multiple BBs and don't mind paying full price for the latest and greatest BB device, but your average consumer cannot pay $500 or $600+ for a new phone each year one is rolled out.
    Your example about the ripped shirt does not hold water.
    OS7 delivers exactly what it is supposed to.
    As for BBX, RIM has made a very public announcement that OS7 is the last of the BBOS devices. I knew this and yet I bought the 9900. Its a great device as it is.

    Your ripped shirt example is irrelevant as OS7 will still be supported for years to come on RIM's network. Even with the launch of BBX, the 9900 will not lose any of its functionality. It will work just the way it is supposed to work and the way it was promised to work.

    Your grouse is like if you bought a 2011 BMW M3 running at 450 bhp, and enjoying it for a year and then crying that the 2012 M3 has 470 bhp. What you dont realise is that you paid for and bought a 450 bhp car which delivers 450 bhp even 3 years later. If you want 470 bhp, sell your 2011 model and buy a 2012 model.

    The 9900 will not lose any functionality with the launch of BBX. You are getting what you paid for and it will be supported for another 5 years.

    You cant say the same for Apple for example. They will happily dump iOS for iOSX if they had one, and tell the iOS users to go jump in the lake. They have done it before and they will do it again. That's why Mac OS is not taken seriously at the enterprise level even though any mac user (including me) will swear that its superior to Windows.
    AZ87 likes this.
    11-25-11 03:54 PM
  8. Danf's Avatar
    I might be a little peeved that I now have a 10 month old 9900 that will never get a full software upgrade and I'm stuck in a two or three year contact. How is that a consumer's fault?
    The only one you should be peeved at is yourself if you failed to do your homework on whatever you are buying. Rim has made no secret of the fact that OS7 devices will NOT run BBX.

    It is the consumer responsibility to know what they are buying.
    AZ87 likes this.
    11-25-11 04:02 PM
  9. moiselles's Avatar
    The only one you should be peeved at is yourself if you failed to do your homework on whatever you are buying. Rim has made no secret of the fact that OS7 devices will NOT run BBX.

    It is the consumer responsibility to know what they are buying.
    But, as an average consumer who has NO IDEA what BBX is... how am I supposed to know that this new fascinating OS is coming out maybe next year? Your average consumer is not going to Google "Will my BB 9900 be eligible for a full software upgrade in Q3 2012?" Give me a break.
    11-25-11 04:06 PM
  10. sam_b77's Avatar
    This thread is great. After a long time the RIM bashers have been logically taken apart for the misinformation they spread.

    The silence is palpable. And Economist101 is completely absent from this tread. I guess he didn't find any grammar or statistic to correct to satisfy his pedantic nature.
    Come on Economist, we all know you are reading this one. Why don't you throw your hat in the ring like the other trolls.
    11-25-11 04:09 PM
  11. AZ87's Avatar
    But, as an average consumer who has NO IDEA what BBX is... how am I supposed to know that this new fascinating OS is coming out maybe next year? Your average consumer is not going to Google "Will my BB 9900 be eligible for a full software upgrade in Q3 2012?" Give me a break.
    If you look at the forums here often enough you will see that RIM continues to update the OS on ancient phones. They will continue to update OS7 long after BBX comes out and its not like OS7 stops working if BBX exists. OS7 is going to be around for a long time. Just look at all the users here using old OS phones and they still even receive updates. If a consumer has no idea what BBX is why would they assume their OS7 phone should run it, different products. But you shouldn't be concerned since you use an iPhone, you'll be okay, not sure why you are here complaining.

    Edit: http://crackberry.com/official-os-60...ne-new-zealand

    that was just posted on the front page
    Last edited by AZ87; 11-25-11 at 04:19 PM.
    11-25-11 04:15 PM
  12. sam_b77's Avatar
    But, as an average consumer who has NO IDEA what BBX is... how am I supposed to know that this new fascinating OS is coming out maybe next year? Your average consumer is not going to Google "Will my BB 9900 be eligible for a full software upgrade in Q3 2012?" Give me a break.
    The "Average"consumer you speak of will have no idea about BBX till 2013. By that time the average consumer will have his upgrade option.
    You know about BBX and OS7 because you choose to keep your self informed. The average joe is thrilled to bits with his 9900 running OS7. And his 9900 will provide him excellent service well into 2013.
    Coming to you, since you are not the average customer, you know about BBX being around the corner and if you still choose to buy OS 7, then it would be an informed decision for you.

    Personally, I change my phone every 7 months. I wouldn't care one bit if BBX is launched in feb. If I can live without the keyboard I will sell my 9900 and buy the BBX, otherwise I will keep my 9900 and still buy the BBX. Its only $600. Not a life changing decision. I spend more on shoes.
    11-25-11 04:17 PM
  13. Danf's Avatar
    But, as an average consumer who has NO IDEA what BBX is... how am I supposed to know that this new fascinating OS is coming out maybe next year? Your average consumer is not going to Google "Will my BB 9900 be eligible for a full software upgrade in Q3 2012?" Give me a break.
    Why would your "average consumer" even think that the phone they bought today is going to Run some new OS next year? I think even your average consumer is smart enough to realize that OS numbers have a purpose, like being able to identify which OS can run on which device.

    As I pointed out elsewhere it is not the average consumer that gets upset their device cannot upgrade to a New OS it is "power users" the ones that do have a clue about their device and are just peeved they are not going to be able to upgrade.
    11-25-11 04:24 PM
  14. moiselles's Avatar
    RIM can update and continues to update all their old phones. I see this whenever a new OS update is posted in the forums and it shoots to the top of commented on and viewed threads. Just because 0S7 isnt being upgraded to BBX doesnt mean RIM isnt going to continue to develop OS7 after BBX is released. The real stupid thing is people that don't seem to currently use BB devices are the ones complaining.
    I don't really care what is supported/what is not supported by RIM. I'm talking about that it is not a consumers fault for the choices a company makes. You can't always blame the consumer for not doing their research. Sometimes you can't do research, especially on a software platform that may or may not come out next year.
    11-25-11 04:29 PM
  15. moiselles's Avatar
    This thread is great. After a long time the RIM bashers have been logically taken apart for the misinformation they spread.

    The silence is palpable. And Economist101 is completely absent from this tread. I guess he didn't find any grammar or statistic to correct to satisfy his pedantic nature.
    Come on Economist, we all know you are reading this one. Why don't you throw your hat in the ring like the other trolls.
    So now I'm a troll because I'm asking legitimate questions? This is so ridiculous. I didn't say anything bad about RIM. I'm not bashing RIM. It's a fact that OS7 devices won't run BBX. How is that bashing or spreading misinformation? I was bringing up a few points. It's not always the consumers fault.

    I feel like if the shoe was on another company's foot, you'd say "Oh, blame that company because they didn't do xyz", but because it's RIM "Oh, blame the consumer!" You can't have your cake and eat it too.
    11-25-11 04:32 PM
  16. AZ87's Avatar
    I don't really care what is supported/what is not supported by RIM. I'm talking about that it is not a consumers fault for the choices a company makes. You can't always blame the consumer for not doing their research. Sometimes you can't do research, especially on a software platform that may or may not come out next year.
    I got an iPhone 4 in apr and can't get some advantages of iPhone 4S like Siri, even though I've seen hacks on TiPb were you can get it. Should I be upset about this and should you be on the other forums advocating for consumers?

    You bring up a good point. No one even knows when BBX will come, so how are you complaining about it right now? complain about it when it happens, and your complaint would hold more weight if you actually owned an OS7 device, since you don't it seems extremely odd that you are on this forum and complaining at all.
    11-25-11 04:35 PM
  17. Blackberry_boffin's Avatar
    I would agree IF we were talking about a Stable company.

    BUT RIM is going under some heavy changes, everyone wants RIM to execute NOW, but gets mad if they don't pay attention to all the past,

    OS7 devices were MAJOR jumps over OS6 devices, RIM HAD to do it, in reality OS6 devices were the Mistake, they should have held off launching the Torch/9780 and found ways to put 800mhz with hardware accelerated graphics into those early 2011, then the upgrade from OS6 to OS7 would have been possible, and they could have actually skipped releasing the 9810 and just upgraded the 9800 with an OS,

    but this is all hindsight clearly, RIM is trying to drastically change their business practices, and in doing so they can't worry about the next OS being backwards compatible until they have the next OS gaining back user support. they don't make money by giving you an upgraded OS, Google does since it is all about ad revenue, Apple does since it is all about enabling new App features, and service options,

    I suspect in Time RIM will when BBX is the OS but trying to make an OS work on a 6XXmhz processor and on a 1.2Mhz processor is not an easy task
    I agree and disagree.
    OS6 devices were badly needed as my Storm was making me climb walls. Another wait would have been bad for the RIM bottom line and possibly the more fickle amongst us. The first Torch actually did very well and cannot be conceivably considered a bad move IMHO.
    OS7 devices were an equally necessary refresh to give the BBX platform time to mature whilst we have something to hang onto. Again they are hardly disasters.
    As customers (that's everyone else) and fanboys (thats me) we are caught up in the painful period of a transition to a new OS. This invariably brings in impatience as we daily wonder what the new goods will be like, we subconsciously hype them up and a few months suddenly seem like three years.
    It will come to pass. The promise of OS 2.0 tells us they are chipping away at them.
    11-25-11 04:36 PM
  18. moiselles's Avatar
    ^ I'm not complaining. Again, I could care less about OS7 and BBX. I was bringing up a point about consumers and asking questions. I don't have to own as OS7 device to post on these forums.
    11-25-11 04:37 PM
  19. sam_b77's Avatar
    So now I'm a troll because I'm asking legitimate questions? This is so ridiculous. I didn't say anything bad about RIM. I'm not bashing RIM. It's a fact that OS7 devices won't run BBX. How is that bashing or spreading misinformation? I was bringing up a few points. It's not always the consumers fault.

    I feel like if the shoe was on another company's foot, you'd say "Oh, blame that company because they didn't do xyz", but because it's RIM "Oh, blame the consumer!" You can't have your cake and eat it too.
    Hey, Now you are putting words in my mouth.
    I would never call someone as pretty as you a "Troll". I was baiting TheEconomist.
    I know how you hate the term.

    But you have to admit that your argument is specious at best. Nonetheless I'm still up for a debate with you without dropping the term that offends you.
    AZ87 likes this.
    11-25-11 04:41 PM
  20. AZ87's Avatar
    It's a fact that OS7 devices won't run BBX.


    ^ I'm not complaining. Again, I could care less about OS7 and BBX. I was bringing up a point about consumers and asking questions. I don't have to own as OS7 device to post on these forums.
    Hmmm. I don't know. You seem pretty confused or that a double standard exists for you.

    No one said you had to own one. I said your complaint would hold more weight.

    I know you will freak out if I characterise your posting in a certain way so I won't.
    11-25-11 04:43 PM
  21. Blackberry_boffin's Avatar
    im not saying 2-3-4 years. I am just saying it should be able to support a OS that is released 10 months after the device is released.
    You see the moment you start hammering out words like should for backward compatibility you're treading on thin ice.
    It's this limited mentality that stifles innovation. You wind up watering down devices in order to support older devices.
    These are just phones.
    11-25-11 04:47 PM
  22. moiselles's Avatar
    Hey, Now you are putting words in my mouth.
    I would never call someone as pretty as you a "Troll". I was baiting TheEconomist.
    I know how you hate the term.

    But you have to admit that your argument is specious at best. Nonetheless I'm still up for a debate with you without dropping the term that offends you.
    I'd hope you wouldn't call me a troll regardless. I have not once said anything bad about BlackBerry or RIM or bashed them. Everyone is welcome to search through my 800+ posts.

    I see everyone is frustrated with all the iPhone and Android users still sticking around here. I get it. But I'm really starting to feel like ... I don't even know how to put it into words. I like BlackBerry and want them to do well. I hope BBX is a success. Competition is good and I like to continue to keep in-the-know about BB. Some of the attitudes of some of the users here really leaves a sour taste in my mouth and I can't be the only one. It's not iPhone or Android users complaining, plenty of BB users and fans are doing it too!

    But I feel like even asking questions around here can be entering into hostile territory and that really shouldn't be the case. Feels like you always have to walk on egg shells around here, so to speak.
    Last edited by moiselles; 11-25-11 at 04:54 PM.
    11-25-11 04:51 PM
  23. moiselles's Avatar
    Hmmm. I don't know. You seem pretty confused or that a double standard exists for you.

    No one said you had to own one. I said your complaint would hold more weight.

    I know you will freak out if I characterise your posting in a certain way so I won't.
    I'm not freaking out. I don't see how it's a double standard. I stated that OS7 devices won't run BBX. Isn't that what's been said around these forums for months? I wasn't complaining, just making a statement.
    11-25-11 04:53 PM
  24. sam_b77's Avatar
    @Moiselles,
    I'm just throwing this out, but I guess you wouldn't think twice about spending $2000 on the latest LV handbag. I know I spend more on Ferragamo ties and suits.
    This is just a $200 phone. Big deal if you have to change it in ten months. If you want the latest then spend some.
    I seriously don't get all the belly aching about a $600 purchase.
    11-25-11 04:56 PM
  25. moiselles's Avatar
    @Moiselles,
    I just throwing this out, but I guess you wouldn't think twice about spending $2000 on the latest LV handbag. I know I spend more on Ferragamo ties and suits.
    This is just a $200 phone. Big deal if you have to change it in ten months. If you want the latest then spend some.
    I seriously don't get all the belly aching about a $600 purchase.
    I don't own any LV bags, unfortunately. Don't have that kind of money. Do I love fashion? Absolutely. I just can't afford the stuff I really love.

    Same reason I don't own a tablet. I don't have $600 to throw down on something that my phone and my laptop can do. I wasn't belly aching because I wouldn't spend $600 on a cell phone. Would I love to own a tablet? Of course.
    Last edited by moiselles; 11-25-11 at 05:02 PM.
    11-25-11 04:58 PM
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