[Branta]

This is, arguably, part of the reason BB is not the big draw it once was. It's core functionality is restricted closely to the out-of-box state by corporate policy and absence of third-party apps.

If a BES hosted device is restricted, it is by the decision of the OWNER. It is the corporate owner's right and privilege to decide how its property can be used. The BIS user-owner has complete freedom of choice.

Contrast that with the rights of the iPhone end-user... constrained by Apple's control freaks and in most cases lacking the technical knowledge to evade the restrictions.

[13echo4]

If a BES hosted device is restricted, it is by the decision of the OWNER. It is the corporate owner's right and privilege to decide how its property can be used. The BIS user-owner has complete freedom of choice.

Contrast that with the rights of the iPhone end-user... constrained by Apple's control freaks and in most cases lacking the technical knowledge to evade the restrictions.

Bingo. And a lot of these customers that don't know how to jb their ip did. You can bet they would. Here's the thing though. They bring their iphone to me. I jb it. When they get it back they really don't know what to do w/ it but go to cydia and install apps. Not much of an appeal a month later. Then when they update and the phone is again incarcerated theydont want to spend another $25 to bond it out.

[Tre Lawrence]

Bingo. And a lot of these customers that don't know how to jb their ip did. You can bet they would. Here's the thing though. They bring their iphone to me. I jb it. When they get it back they really don't know what to do w/ it but go to cydia and install apps. Not much of an appeal a month later. Then when they update and the phone is again incarcerated theydont want to spend another $25 to bond it out.

For $25? What? They pay you?

I know quite a few iPhone users, in real life and online (I write tech articles). I know only of two out of several dozen that have their devices jailbroken. Most have no clue as to what that even means. I know a few former owners of rooted Android devices hat have moved on to stock iOS devices too.

This somewhat anecdotal evidence tells me that the iPhone is a great catchall device. Not for me, at this point, but I'd be lying if I said it was not a good device for a lot of people.

[Danf]

Doesn't matter what brand phone it is, the average user is not a power user. The Average user is relatively clueless about how their phones works and how it can be modified.

All they know is their phone works, and when it does not they either take it back to the store or come to places like this asking how it can be fixed.

Thats when you find out that although they have had their phone for a year or more they never once backed it up. But they want to know how to get all their stuff back.

[13echo4]

For $25? What? They pay you?

I know quite a few iPhone users, in real life and online (I write tech articles). I know only of two out of several dozen that have their devices jailbroken. Most have no clue as to what that even means. I know a few former owners of rooted Android devices hat have moved on to stock iOS devices too.

This somewhat anecdotal evidence tells me that the iPhone is a great catchall device. Not for me, at this point, but I'd be lying if I said it was not a good device for a lot of people.

Yea they pay me. I'm not paying them. I'm not doing it for free either. Now imnot a hustler or anything. I rather not mess with an apple device were it be a mac, iphone, or ipad/ipod. Just the geek in me, I know how. "Well use someone elses work" anyway. If I'm working on them I'm going to get something in return. I've built a lot of themes for the BB and gave em away. That takes slot more work but I love working w/ blackberrys. Well I enjoy messing around with most devices.
what you don't charge? Sounds alittle futal. I do a lot of work on iphones and other cell phones. I'm jailbreaking 3-4 a week. Then theirs the ones I rejailbreak. There is a larger number of jb iphone then yall are trying to put off. I'm sorry just saying.

[Tre Lawrence]

Yea they pay me. I'm not paying them. I'm not doing it for free either. Now imnot a hustler or anything. I rather not mess with an apple device were it be a mac, iphone, or ipad/ipod. Just the geek in me, I know how. "Well use someone elses work" anyway. If I'm working on them I'm going to get something in return. I've built a lot of themes for the BB and gave em away. That takes slot more work but I love working w/ blackberrys. Well I enjoy messing around with most devices.
what you don't charge? Sounds alittle futal. I do a lot of work on iphones and other cell phones. I'm jailbreaking 3-4 a week. Then theirs the ones I rejailbreak. There is a larger number of jb iphone then yall are trying to put off. I'm sorry just saying.

Nah... I'm not hating on ya... if you can get paid doing legit stuff, I say do it. I am actually jealous LOL.

[13echo4]

Nah... I'm not hating on ya... if you can get paid doing legit stuff, I say do it. I am actually jealous LOL.

Smh bruh you have to get paid to buy the beadryl. If your not allergic to apple then you have to pay for the bandwidth. Just a small price to keep shop up. Do repairs and such. Set yourself up to buy used/bricked or other wise devices. Your na.e will get out there. Use graigs list. Before you know it you'll have a fairly large client base.
I was buying the heck out of htc devices. I didn't care if water damaged or what. I've sold parts out of all them. All of the screens. Htc's screens where so easy to scratch, crack, or bust.

[Rootbrian]

Smh bruh you have to get paid to buy the beadryl. If your not allergic to apple then you have to pay for the bandwidth. Just a small price to keep shop up. Do repairs and such. Set yourself up to buy used/bricked or other wise devices. Your na.e will get out there. Use graigs list. Before you know it you'll have a fairly large client base.
I was buying the heck out of htc devices. I didn't care if water damaged or what. I've sold parts out of all them. All of the screens. Htc's screens where so easy to scratch, crack, or bust.

Holy typo-nightmare! No offense, but I had a difficult time reading it. :/

[pri79269]

Yea they pay me. I'm not paying them. I'm not doing it for free either. Now imnot a hustler or anything. I rather not mess with an apple device were it be a mac, iphone, or ipad/ipod. Just the geek in me, I know how. "Well use someone elses work" anyway. If I'm working on them I'm going to get something in return. I've built a lot of themes for the BB and gave em away. That takes slot more work but I love working w/ blackberrys. Well I enjoy messing around with most devices.
what you don't charge? Sounds alittle futal. I do a lot of work on iphones and other cell phones. I'm jailbreaking 3-4 a week. Then theirs the ones I rejailbreak. There is a larger number of jb iphone then yall are trying to put off. I'm sorry just saying.

Curious. What kind of phone did you type this post on. Just asking.

[13echo4]

Curious. What kind of phone did you type this post on. Just asking.

Odd,but aight. On a BlackBerry Torch 9800 os v600.

[howarmat]

i was going to guess playbook

[ODAAT]

I wonder vaguely if RIM would do better putting CrackBerry.com in their instructions. As others have said, most people don't have any idea of the potential of their phone. I know people who buy iPhones who don't want to use the app store for example. My point is, if BB users came here and realised the potential of this device they are paying so much money for, they might be more loyal to the brand. Instead they just read reviews written by people who don't use BB's in the first place,who use them for a day before the review and who don't know the first thing about them either. One reviewer said that nothing in BB App World interested them. That's just lazy. Through visiting this site, I have discovered apps that have improved my life. They have saved me time, made me more organised and better at my job. These include tether, ToDoMatrix, IM+ Pro, Kindle, Wi Fi File Transfer, deToday, BeBuzz and others I could mention. And that is before I even get started on my PlayBook. But Jo Bloggs can't be bothered to find out about their device and all they can think of is "My emails arrived late for three days" and "It doesn't have Angry Birds". Not "this device is very blummin useful".

[13echo4]

i was going to guess playbook

Really? Why would ya guess that? I wish I had a PB. Maybe 1 day.
I agree. I think if some of the people that had bad user experance w/ a backberry knew more of the interworkings of the blackberry might have enjoyed it more. Most of us that knows these things came to know them from yrs of using Rim devices and has learned the little nicks from use and crackberry has helped a lot in spreading the wealth. It happens a lot some body shows me their samsung android phone can do whatever. And then the are amazed and I show em how we do it on a blackberry. I usually get "how did you do that?" Or "you couldn't do that on my blackberry I had". Truth is there's a lot of stuff you can do on a blackberry you don't have to install an app to do. But it's not in the general knowledge or use of the device so it goes on unnoticed. That being said how does Rim go about getting that info out? A lot of things can be learned reading the help files. Noone does.

[tack]

I wonder vaguely if RIM would do better putting CrackBerry.com in their instructions. As others have said, most people don't have any idea of the potential of their phone. I know people who buy iPhones who don't want to use the app store for example. My point is, if BB users came here and realised the potential of this device they are paying so much money for, they might be more loyal to the brand. Instead they just read reviews written by people who don't use BB's in the first place,who use them for a day before the review and who don't know the first thing about them either. One reviewer said that nothing in BB App World interested them. That's just lazy. Through visiting this site, I have discovered apps that have improved my life. They have saved me time, made me more organised and better at my job. These include tether, ToDoMatrix, IM+ Pro, Kindle, Wi Fi File Transfer, deToday, BeBuzz and others I could mention. And that is before I even get started on my PlayBook. But Jo Bloggs can't be bothered to find out about their device and all they can think of is "My emails arrived late for three days" and "It doesn't have Angry Birds". Not "this device is very blummin useful".

Actually I would say this site is pretty good and exposing people to what the devices can do and what is available. I started to love my BB after I found this site and read a bit. My view is most people are lazy and don't know how to operate their DVD player well, much less their smartphone. Most that come here are not that way, and in general above average users trying to learn more or are outright experts.

It is why a lot of people on CB don't understand how BB could get such negative reviews and be losing share given what they individually know about it. They just cannot conceive why someone would slam BB so hard and why iPhones are judged as so superior. I would say one of the main reasons is that people don't know what you or others know, and they don't care to know it. If you add in that the press slams RIM at every turn without fail and puts Apple and others up on a pedestal, you get what we have. (Not to say RIM has not goofed up a bit because heck I switched!)

[sam_b77]

Actually I would say this site is pretty good and exposing people to what the devices can do and what is available. I started to love my BB after I found this site and read a bit. My view is most people are lazy and don't know how to operate their DVD player well, much less their smartphone. Most that come here are not that way, and in general above average users trying to learn more or are outright experts.

It is why a lot of people on CB don't understand how BB could get such negative reviews and be losing share given what they individually know about it. They just cannot conceive why someone would slam BB so hard and why iPhones are judged as so superior. I would say one of the main reasons is that people don't know what you or others know, and they don't care to know it. If you add in that the press slams RIM at every turn without fail and puts Apple and others up on a pedestal, you get what we have. (Not to say RIM has not goofed up a bit because heck I switched!)

I think the problem is the manual one gets with the BB phone. Its a nothing page which shows how to pop the battery in and put in a SIM card.

The rest, shortcuts, email handling, customization etc is left for the user to find out. It takes a lot of work to get to that info.

I have been using BBs for 4 years now, and there are still some things I don't know. CB is a great site to explore the full features, but everyone who buys a phone does not join the forums.

RIM needs to address this. I know there is the Knowledge Base, but again it's complicated to get to know all the features. You need to know what you want to do before you can search the Knowledge Base. And if you don't know what it can do, then you probably don't know what you want to do in the first place.

I think RIM needs to collate all features and make a proper How To Page and put it up on their site. Maybe a Welcome New User Site. Leave the link on the manual.

EDIT: Just remembered there is a "Help" on the phone which lists all the tips, features etc. But see I forgot about it being there. More advertising RIM...

[Apollo_Creed]

I've realized something this morning. Every morning, I like to start my day with some Rim news and hitting the forum. over the course of the last few months I noticed a trend that seems to be getting worse. No matter what Rim does, they are always in the wrong.

I'd like to start at the launch of the PB where it all seemed to go down hill. Everyone complained the PB was half baked and Rim should have made sure it was fully functional and had all the features before launching. Then they complained the product line was aging and that no new phones were being produced. Also that BB6 was crap and we had no apps nor app dev support.

So a few months ago, Rim start releasing a bunch of new phones. 9900, 9810, 9860. Apparently not good enough.

They put os7 on it. People complained that it wasn't QNX

They get going on the android player and everyone complains it doesn't run EVERY droid app.

They bring a bunch of tools for devs to produce new apps for bbx and took away a bunch of red tape for app world. People complained that they should be running android and that no one would want to write for BBX because there isn't enough PBs out there to justify it and as a result BBX won't be worth while. Further, since they have the android player, why would they bother writing bbx apps?

People complained the PB was overpriced for what it had. They drop the price to 199$ to get it in peoples hands and then people complain it's too cheap and they killing the value.

They got Saunders trying to get Dev support, no one cares.

They looking to release 2.0 in February to make sure it's fully baked and people are angry that it's taking too long.


I don't think they will ever satisfy anyone.

No matter what RIM does because they will never be able to please everyone.

[Tre Lawrence]

No company can.

[13echo4]

I think the problem is the manual one gets with the BB phone. Its a nothing page which shows how to pop the battery in and put in a SIM card.

The rest, shortcuts, email handling, customization etc is left for the user to find out. It takes a lot of work to get to that info.

I have been using BBs for 4 years now, and there are still some things I don't know. CB is a great site to explore the full features, but everyone who buys a phone does not join the forums.

RIM needs to address this. I know there is the Knowledge Base, but again it's complicated to get to know all the features. You need to know what you want to do before you can search the Knowledge Base. And if you don't know what it can do, then you probably don't know what you want to do in the first place.

I think RIM needs to collate all features and make a proper How To Page and put it up on their site. Maybe a Welcome New User Site. Leave the link on the manual.

EDIT: Just remembered there is a "Help" on the phone which lists all the tips, features etc. But see I forgot about it being there. More advertising RIM...

Not true at all. On every BlackBerry is a help icon. You can browse the help files and come some conclusion what the device can do in short. For the general non power user group tgis will satify the learning curve. For the power user crowd there's google. Iphones don't have help.

[TheMimic]

No matter what RIM does because they will never be able to please everyone.

I'm not talking about pleasing everyone. Just changing the perception of the masses. right now, they can't seem to please anyone with the moves they are making (minus the news of Fusion in the last 48hours) but their will def be something negative to screw the stock price back before earnings call I'm sure.

[hootyhoo]

Not true at all. On every BlackBerry is a help icon. You can browse the help files and come some conclusion what the device can do in short. For the general non power user group tgis will satify the learning curve. For the power user crowd there's google. Iphones don't have help.

I think this is one of the reasons for the popularity of the iphone. It is easy to use out of the box. No need to spend time searching forums for shortcuts.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Rootbrian]

I think this is one of the reasons for the popularity of the iphone. It is easy to use out of the box. No need to spend time searching forums for shortcuts.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

The 8130 I had was easy to use right out of the box, same for my 9700. It just took some getting used to coming from windows mobile 5.0 at the time. Now I'm familar with it.

[Tre Lawrence]

I think this is one of the reasons for the popularity of the iphone. It is easy to use out of the box. No need to spend time searching forums for shortcuts.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Good point.

For the life of me, I have never understood the people who sneer at iOS and proclaim that it is "too easy."

[sam_b77]

Not true at all. On every BlackBerry is a help icon. You can browse the help files and come some conclusion what the device can do in short. For the general non power user group tgis will satify the learning curve. For the power user crowd there's google. Iphones don't have help.

Yea you are correct about the help. And it has an extensive guide to all the features.
As you can see I edited my post.
Actually I had stepped out of my house after I made this post and remembered about the Help icon. I came back and edited my post.

The point is that the Help icon is not seriously used by many BB owners. I completely forgot about it even though it has been there since my first BB, the 8800.

I actually used the help today. I had forgotten how to keep my messages forever.
I just typed "Messages" in Help and I got my solution. The Help surprised me even today after being on BB for 4 years.
BB is great. The features for a smart communication device are without any equal in MY OPINION.

RIM just needs to spread the word around better.

Another thing I just found out ( after four years on BB) is that you can colour tag your e-mails for the notification bar as long as you are on BES. Awesome feature. I just wish they can bring this to BIS.

Another cool feature my brother in law demoed for me ( and he is far less BB savvy than me), was the enterprise address book. He just pulled the Phone Number of someone in his company whose number he didn't have. He just searched his Enterprise Address book and it was as fast as the address book on device. The feature just blew me away. I don't know if Android or iPhone have this feature for enterprise.

I guess BB needs to get these features into the limelight. They need to change their advertising and marketing if they want to attract the consumer side of business.

The colour coded message notifications on BES is so cool, yet most people on the consumer side don't know about it. If they can apply some BES feature to BIS plans, BB would be beyond anything on the market.

EDIT: Why does the Mac autocorrect changes the spelling of "Colour" to "Color"??
"Colour" is the correct spelling and my language preference is set to UK English.
Another reason to hate autocorrect. I would prefer spellcheck to autocorrect. Maybe the PB with spellcheck and no autocorrect has some merits. Just saying MAYBE..

[hootyhoo]

The 8130 I had was easy to use right out of the box, same for my 9700. It just took some getting used to coming from windows mobile 5.0 at the time. Now I'm familar with it.

The 8130 was my first smartphone. I hated it for the first week or so. I had never imagined forums dedicated to a smartphone, so I kinda figured out how to do most things on it by trial and error. I found CB looking for apps.

Point is, bb isn't intuitive for many casual smartphone users. Most normal users who I know do not care about the os or brand, they just want to use their phone without problems. They don't want to spend time on forums trying to work out a bug. They want a simple and app filled experience.

Hopefully rim will offer this with bbx.

I like choices.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[moiselles]

Good point.

For the life of me, I have never understood the people who sneer at iOS and proclaim that it is "too easy."

iPhones are extremely easy to set up. It works right out of the box, now more than ever since you don't have to even hook it up to iTunes on your PC to get it started. No crazy set up menus. But, at the same time, not as much customization as BlackBerry out of the box. With BlackBerry you have sound profiles, fonts, etc.