08-25-11 01:42 AM
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  1. mmcpher's Avatar
    I'm sure you've all heard the old wives' tale that no hypnotized subject may be forced to do that which is repellent to his moral nature, whatever that may be. Nonsense, of course. . . . Raymond Shaw is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life. . . .
    08-21-11 10:45 PM
  2. Witmen's Avatar
    I don't understand why people keep saying the new BB devices are overpriced. I'm looking at my receipt for my Bold 9650 and its making me think these new devices are a bargin.

    9650 off contract $509.99
    9930 off contract $509.99

    Both prices are from VZW.

    We can all agree that the 9930 is a lot better than the 9650 yet after all of the major improvements RIM didn't raise the price at all. Sounds pretty good to me.
    Last edited by Witmen; 08-22-11 at 12:25 AM.
    08-22-11 12:20 AM
  3. blue81to's Avatar
    There's Apple loyalist and RIM loyalist and Google loyalist. In my opinion it's similar in many ways. It has a lot to do with how society and modern economies are structured. For the economy to grow, people must perpetually buy things that are non essential to human life. After mechanical devices and use of fossil fuels improved farming techniques, much less man power is needed for farming. Overtime people began leaving the countryside and piling into cities. What else is there to do?
    Last edited by blue81to; 08-22-11 at 02:00 AM. Reason: changed most to must
    08-22-11 02:00 AM
  4. AceStreaming's Avatar
    LOL!!!! What transparent trolling!!!!

    I'm experiencing the Torch 2 right now. If this is any indication of what the 9900 will feel like, it will not be overpriced and there is no brainwashing. People can choose to buy or not.

    Try again!
    I'm not a troll.... -_-
    08-22-11 11:48 AM
  5. Accidental Post's Avatar
    MacBook Pro
    13-inch screen
    Intel Core i5 2.3GHz dual-core
    4GB RAM
    320GB 5400-rpm1
    Intel HD Graphics 3000
    $1,249.00

    Acer Aspire 5552G-5828
    15.6 HD LCD screen
    AMD Phenom II X4 2.1GHz Quad Core
    6GB RAM
    500 GB 5400-rpm
    ATI Radeon HD 5650
    $549

    I rest my case.
    All specs aside use them both for a month and tell me which one slows to a snails pace....I will give you a hint it ain't the silver one.......
    I have had my MBP for 3 plus years and it Still runs circles around NEW Windows Based Machines.....there IS a reason Mac's cost more up front, one being they last longer and resell better and two the TCO is actually cheaper on a Mac
    08-22-11 12:03 PM
  6. stackberry369's Avatar
    You are a toostie troll.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-22-11 12:06 PM
  7. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    ^^^ AP touches on an important point (at least for me): resale value.
    08-22-11 12:07 PM
  8. undone's Avatar
    Apple's marketing team is the best that money can buy. Period. Anything else is an illusion and/or opinion.

    Now if RIM had Apple's marketing and key speaker, they'd own the market. Security would be an actual topic for a phone, the BB keyboard would be cool (personally I hate it), and Black would be the new White.

    There has been plenty of products that have been the best of breed (at the time) and went the way of the dino. They had sucky marketing strategies.

    As for the individual...if the shoe fits wear it. We all like what we like.
    Last edited by undone; 08-22-11 at 12:22 PM.
    08-22-11 12:20 PM
  9. chiefbroski's Avatar
    It's not brainwashing, its the strength of the brand, just like Heinz ketchup, Kleenex tissue, Glad plastic bags, Louis Vuitton handbags....

    People are willing to pay for a brand because it helps re-assure people of quality. If the product is bad, the brand suffers, and the company doesn't want that. You're essentially buying the product and collateral against the company which costs money.

    Anybody that accuses Apple of brainwashing is just jealous that normal people can now use technology too. I don't like Apple, but they have the strongest brand in the world. Customers are paying big bucks because they can be more certain that Apple won't give them a crappy product they won't like.
    Tre Lawrence likes this.
    08-22-11 12:35 PM
  10. sam_b77's Avatar
    Part of it is a 20% sales tax - but I guess you must have similar things in Canada. However, for lots of North American companies $1 US or $1 Can, is equal to 1. What a fabulous exchange rate! Lucky us.

    But then we have tea, dry wit and appalling weather so its not all bad.
    And a cricket team that can actually play cricket. Kicked the living daylights out of our "World Champ" Indian team.
    08-22-11 12:54 PM
  11. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    It's not brainwashing, its the strength of the brand, just like Heinz ketchup, Kleenex tissue, Glad plastic bags, Louis Vuitton handbags....

    People are willing to pay for a brand because it helps re-assure people of quality. If the product is bad, the brand suffers, and the company doesn't want that. You're essentially buying the product and collateral against the company which costs money.

    Anybody that accuses Apple of brainwashing is just jealous that normal people can now use technology too. I don't like Apple, but they have the strongest brand in the world. Customers are paying big bucks because they can be more certain that Apple won't give them a crappy product they won't like.
    Straight to the point...
    08-22-11 01:12 PM
  12. houshinto#IM's Avatar
    It's not brainwashing, its the strength of the brand, just like Heinz ketchup, Kleenex tissue, Glad plastic bags, Louis Vuitton handbags....

    People are willing to pay for a brand because it helps re-assure people of quality. If the product is bad, the brand suffers, and the company doesn't want that. You're essentially buying the product and collateral against the company which costs money.

    Anybody that accuses Apple of brainwashing is just jealous that normal people can now use technology too. I don't like Apple, but they have the strongest brand in the world. Customers are paying big bucks because they can be more certain that Apple won't give them a crappy product they won't like.
    Yes, and there's no way that the brand/goodwill of a company could be "manufactured" or "artificially maintained" right?

    And heaven forbid if an advertising campaign lies, covers or distorts the truth. I mean all those skin creams really do work!

    How would you even know if you got a crappy product from Apple? When you have Steve Job's telling you what you should have and the hype machine telling you he's right and it's the best. Most people can't be bothered to realize that Apple is a very restrictive, financially parasitic, smoke and mirrors kind of company.

    Apple is great of taking advantage of the herd mentality and mining the vast wealth of peoples ignorance. Give Apple Kudo's for that and that alone if you must.
    08-22-11 01:40 PM
  13. Accidental Post's Avatar
    I have NEVER had an issue when I had to call or visit an Apple Store. Apple will bend over backwards to make sure that their reputation stays in tact.

    Example I had a Radiologist at work that got an error 9 on his iPad he gave it to me to try to fix and after a couple of days of trying all the tricks I knew I determined hid SSD was shot. He picked up the phone called apple and the first tech support guy was like we are sorry but it is out of warranty, he then asked for the supervisor (who he got to right away) and explained that he is a loyal apple user iPhone and iMac and is concerned that this happened to his iPad supervisor says well sir that's unacceptable by apple and your refurbished iPad is on the way no charge just send us back the bad one in the box provided.

    This is how a company gains and keeps brand loyalty. and hence this is why I continue to by apple products. You may call me a fanboy but I will put Apple customer care up against anyone.

    That is why Apple charges more for their Laptops but I can also tell you that their hardware is very tightly controlled. When you see new MacBook pro's or a new MS OS launch you very quickly see the headlines Windows 7 runs faster on Macs.

    Yep I may have paid 2500 for my MacBook Pro, but at his point it has been worth every penny and then some.
    08-22-11 02:19 PM
  14. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Yes, and there's no way that the brand/goodwill of a company could be "manufactured" or "artificially maintained" right?

    And heaven forbid if an advertising campaign lies, covers or distorts the truth. I mean all those skin creams really do work!

    How would you even know if you got a crappy product from Apple? When you have Steve Job's telling you what you should have and the hype machine telling you he's right and it's the best. Most people can't be bothered to realize that Apple is a very restrictive, financially parasitic, smoke and mirrors kind of company.

    Apple is great of taking advantage of the herd mentality and mining the vast wealth of peoples ignorance. Give Apple Kudo's for that and that alone if you must.
    LOL... in your gusto to take swings at Apple, you are contradicting one of the most loyal BB users on this site.

    What some of us fail to see is one basic fact: Apple makes good products. I have said it once, and I'll say it again: to create mindshare and/or a great reputation, you must create a good product. Apple does that.

    You can't sell bottled air to people. Yet. Eventually, people will move on.

    The problem with your post is that it seemed to mirrored in Waterloo for way too long... all the way back when RIM shrugged at the infant iOS or had its execs tell people that buggy devices are a reality. You'e talking about smoke and mirrors? They seem to be living in a foggy carnival trap out there.

    Personally, I think Apple products are overpriced, but when I get my next laptop, best believe Apple is close to the top. Why? Well, when my HP machine dies and friends with older Apple products are still kicking, maybe it's time to reassess my thought processes.

    We laugh and smile and pat ourselves on the back and proclaim the PB to be superior. Well, RIM doesn't really have a choice. I think RIM had better tread very carefully. Put out more for less if they want to keep up.

    This is one of the few places I have seen folks mock a device because it is too "simple." What? Think about that for a second.

    Regardless of what we think, being the "best" matters little sometimes (and there are several PB owners that I respect that would argue that PB isn't anywhere near the best)... most of us have VHS tapes to prove it.

    So, we can make fun of iOS (and Android) users and call them sheep that fall prey to trickery and rest in the smoke and mirrors of "messaging" and "security", or put pressure on RIM to make the type of product they are fully capable of making.
    chiefbroski likes this.
    08-22-11 02:50 PM
  15. chiefbroski's Avatar
    Yes, and there's no way that the brand/goodwill of a company could be "manufactured" or "artificially maintained" right?

    And heaven forbid if an advertising campaign lies, covers or distorts the truth. I mean all those skin creams really do work!

    How would you even know if you got a crappy product from Apple? When you have Steve Job's telling you what you should have and the hype machine telling you he's right and it's the best. Most people can't be bothered to realize that Apple is a very restrictive, financially parasitic, smoke and mirrors kind of company.

    Apple is great of taking advantage of the herd mentality and mining the vast wealth of peoples ignorance. Give Apple Kudo's for that and that alone if you must.
    Yes, there is no way its artificially maintained.
    The "herd" you are referring to is simply the majority of people that are are intimidated with technology as it was before. Apple focused on simplicity, design and marketing. And it obviously worked.

    All it means is that the majority of Apple's customers care more about having an easy-to-use stylish smartphone than a smartphone that has the best specs or the most customization/options. Apple perfected that and charges a premium for their work. To many, that is something worth paying for. There's nothing wrong with that and there is no reason to hate.

    Just because you and I are put off by Apple's restrictions and their limitations, doesn't mean others aren't. Having a smartphone they feel confident in using and is a pleasure to use is why they buy Apple product. I'm a huge BB fanboy, but hating on other companies because they appeal to another group isn't the way to go.
    08-22-11 04:27 PM
  16. Danf's Avatar
    I think Apple makes a quality product but it strengths are not attractive to me, (Multimedia, hundreds of thousands of, "apps for that".)

    I find it interesting that not so long ago Mac PC users defended their choice of a pricey mac computer with a definite lack of software options available for it as being inconsequential. they maintained it was a quality product and though they had far, far, less software options that windows users that this was not important. Macs were more stable and more SECURE than windows PC's, and so what if they didn't have many add on software options they maintained they didn't really need all those different softwares anyway.

    Now that the iphone s the app leader they tout it as very important to have the most apps available as opposed to other phones app stores. And declare iphone superior in part because of it's large app ecosystem. Something they claimed was irrelevant back when macs were destitute of optional software. And now suddenly security is a non issue as well.
    undone likes this.
    08-22-11 04:55 PM
  17. Accidental Post's Avatar
    Yes, and there's no way that the brand/goodwill of a company could be "manufactured" or "artificially maintained" right?

    And heaven forbid if an advertising campaign lies, covers or distorts the truth. I mean all those skin creams really do work!

    How would you even know if you got a crappy product from Apple? When you have Steve Job's telling you what you should have and the hype machine telling you he's right and it's the best. Most people can't be bothered to realize that Apple is a very restrictive, financially parasitic, smoke and mirrors kind of company.

    Apple is great of taking advantage of the herd mentality and mining the vast wealth of peoples ignorance. Give Apple Kudo's for that and that alone if you must.
    Hmmm where do I start. let's see I am a Systems Analyst in a Large Hospital so I know my way around Computers and quite frankly the half baked OS we all call windows keeps me employed The OS I use at home is Mac OSX why? because it WORKS. And in three years when your PC is out of date I will still be toting my MBP because well it works too. Quite well at that. Yes Apple made a Smartphone that the masses love and embrace because it is simple on the outside but my friend iOS and Mac OSX are very complicated under the nice GUI.

    If Apple was smoke and mirrors they wouldn't be the Giant they are, they have surpassed MS and all takers for a reason. Because their products are high quality and work. Yes there are some issues with hardware see my post above and try that with ANY tech company and see what happens.

    BTW the quality of Apple comes from a CLOSED ECO SYSTEM not a wide open fragmented system.

    Call me a Fanboy if you will but facts are facts.
    kevinnugent likes this.
    08-22-11 04:58 PM
  18. avt123's Avatar
    I think Apple makes a quality product but it strengths are not attractive to me, (Multimedia, hundreds of thousands of, "apps for that".)

    I find it interesting that not so long ago Mac PC users defended their choice of a pricey mac computer with a definite lack of software options available for it as being inconsequential. they maintained it was a quality product and though they had far, far, less software options that windows users that this was not important. Macs were more stable and more SECURE than windows PC's, and so what if they didn't have many add on software options they maintained they didn't really need all those different softwares anyway.

    Now that the iphone s the app leader they tout it as very important to have the most apps available as opposed to other phones app stores. And declare iphone superior in part because of it's large app ecosystem. Something they claimed was irrelevant back when macs were destitute of optional software. And now suddenly security is a non issue as well.
    You are assuming these people are the same. Owning an iPhone does not mean you are a Mac user. Also, not all Mac users think that way.
    08-22-11 05:18 PM
  19. diegonei's Avatar
    What a pointless thread...
    chiefbroski likes this.
    08-22-11 05:23 PM
  20. Danf's Avatar
    You are assuming these people are the same. Owning an iPhone does not mean you are a Mac user. Also, not all Mac users think that way.
    Actually I am not assuming anything. merely pointing out how arguments change depending on circumstance. I have little doubt that if the situation were reversed and Blackberry had the largest app ecosystem and was less secure that BB fans would tout it's superior number of apps as being proof of superiority and downplay that it's Os was less secure than apples.
    08-22-11 05:26 PM
  21. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    All specs aside use them both for a month and tell me which one slows to a snails pace....I will give you a hint it ain't the silver one.......
    I have had my MBP for 3 plus years and it Still runs circles around NEW Windows Based Machines.....there IS a reason Mac's cost more up front, one being they last longer and resell better and two the TCO is actually cheaper on a Mac
    TCO cheaper on a Mac?? There is far more Free/opensourse software on a PC than on a Mac, and for which will run better, I have no slow downs on my PC after 6 months, and with the number of wireless networks it connects to that is a testiement to how good Windows 7 is, Safari is not nearly as friendly as Internet explorer in hotels, which is why Many hotels actually hjave a copy of firefox for Mac on a CD for Mac users having problems with Safari but needing internet.

    I don't deny Apple makes a quality product, but saying the TCO is lower is laughable, unless your Mac lives in an All Mac world you can't regain your upfront costs in the lifespan of the machine, which is 2-4 years depending on requirements.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-22-11 05:36 PM
  22. AceStreaming's Avatar
    You are a toostie troll.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Your being a troll right now...
    tack likes this.
    08-22-11 05:38 PM
  23. Accidental Post's Avatar
    TCO cheaper on a Mac?? There is far more Free/opensourse software on a PC than on a Mac, and for which will run better, I have no slow downs on my PC after 6 months, and with the number of wireless networks it connects to that is a testiement to how good Windows 7 is, Safari is not nearly as friendly as Internet explorer in hotels, which is why Many hotels actually hjave a copy of firefox for Mac on a CD for Mac users having problems with Safari but needing internet.

    I don't deny Apple makes a quality product, but saying the TCO is lower is laughable, unless your Mac lives in an All Mac world you can't regain your upfront costs in the lifespan of the machine, which is 2-4 years depending on requirements.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    The argument was TCO of Windows vs Mac and a Mac is cheaper over the life of the computer.

    And the fact that Safari is not web friendly is a lie...the web developer actually dropped the ball in development. Actually most site are developed for IE only and that is huge web development mistake. Firefox renders IE site ok and yes Safari has issue with them. Thats a developer problem not a safari problem. I have had MACS surpass 6 plus years with no issues. The average PC lasts maybe half of that for the average user. I still have friends pounding out Video and Audio on G5's that blow anything MS makes out of the water.
    08-22-11 06:31 PM
  24. olblueyez's Avatar
    Forcing retailers both online and brick and mortar to have "special" listings, sections, floor space for apple products and purposely making apple products less compatible with non apple products and putting apple stickers in the iPhone box so the apple sheeple can advertise apple for free so more normal people can join the flock, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc,,... It's beyond advertising, its brain washing people into thinking something is better "Just because it's Apple". You can't even look at an apple product if it doesn't have a black display behind it with a white apple logo on it. Who do you think pays for all that promo garb? The customers do.

    IPhone 3GS $49.99
    RIM 9810 $49.99

    It's pretty simple math.

    Flip side is, many people want to have their minds made up for them. Apple caters to this so the Apple Fans are part of the equation as well. You know, the computers that never screw up and don't need anti virus software blah, blah, blah,,...

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by olblueyez; 08-22-11 at 06:49 PM.
    Sharma15 likes this.
    08-22-11 06:45 PM
  25. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    The argument was TCO of Windows vs Mac and a Mac is cheaper over the life of the computer.

    And the fact that Safari is not web friendly is a lie...the web developer actually dropped the ball in development. Actually most site are developed for IE only and that is huge web development mistake. Firefox renders IE site ok and yes Safari has issue with them. Thats a developer problem not a safari problem. I have had MACS surpass 6 plus years with no issues. The average PC lasts maybe half of that for the average user. I still have friends pounding out Video and Audio on G5's that blow anything MS makes out of the water.
    I understand the argument being Windows VS Mac

    I still don't see it I've got a Windows 2000 server running SINCE 2000 in the home,
    my Laptops all have cost less than a Mac with ALL software purchases and lasted their usable life before being handed down.
    Unfortunately I don't have the costs of a MacBook in 2005 vs a comparable PC in 2005 as well as the software's each would use. then the replacement cost of all those components in 2009 to give a real TCO but seeing as after purchasing Office I don't spend another dime on laptop maintenance nor do I need to fight with hotels for Internet because remote redirect protocols of datavalet are made for IE the TCO of the PC is lower than the TCO of Apple with OSX.


    I don't deny that an Apple Purchase can be a good purchase if you can live in their realm my only argument is your claim for a better TCO. which I very much disagree with.
    lssanjose and chiefbroski like this.
    08-22-11 08:10 PM
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