08-14-09 03:04 AM
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  1. papped's Avatar
    The windows PC os arguement is entirely irrelevant. Windows didn't become the most popular OS because of it's "open-ness" ... If you want to believe that, go for it.

    People clamor for what they see on the iphone to be on the BB. You can find examples of this all over the place, easily.

    I stated I don't want this, because people are asking for it (and not one or two people).

    As for the app development, there is no way you will see NEARLY the same level of development on the BB unless you remove some of the app segmentation. You just won't. Nobody wants to make 2-4 versions compared to 1.

    i.e., making a tetris game for blackberry was a waste of time. I had to do 4 times the work and for what? Because some stupid issues popup from one device to another. OS api differences, huge variances in screen resolution, completely different input methods. You name it. I could have done 1/4th the work (probably a lot less actually) and made 100x the money elsewhere. That's the tradeoff though. I would rather have hardware variance and choices, rather than number of apps.
    Last edited by papped; 08-12-09 at 08:49 PM.
    08-12-09 08:45 PM
  2. Johnly's Avatar
    Rim has been great regardless of the neigh Sayers. I am sure we will see some pretty cool siht in a year, and I am hoping we all see allot more from rim than just a safari like browser!!!!
    08-12-09 08:48 PM
  3. cd36's Avatar
    People are asking for some apps that do a similar function, I think. Are they asking for App world to be the only source of downloads? Are they asking for multitasking to disappear to gain some stability? I don't think so. People just want a barcode reading app or something similar.
    08-12-09 08:49 PM
  4. papped's Avatar
    Where's the app development going to come from?

    Why would BB app development increase in desirability? It's easy to say "I want this or that app, that's all". But why is someone going to bother (or more importantly, not bother) making it in the first place?

    -"I can't browse the web or do anything while using your app because your app slows my phone down"
    -"Your app is killing my battery while running in the background"
    -"On the <insert device here> blah blah happens when <insert circumstance here>". "Oh but I have a <insert different device> and that doesn't happen"

    Which device are you using? Which version did you install? Which OS are you running?

    It's not that hard to see why those changes make it more consumer friendly. This also means developer friendly and profitable vs time spent.
    Last edited by papped; 08-12-09 at 08:56 PM.
    08-12-09 08:51 PM
  5. cd36's Avatar
    Well I think thats where OS 5.0 is trying to start helping. It will get all the (compatible) devices onto one common OS, so it will be easier to develope for. RIM seems to be making strides in this direction, and make it as easy as possible instead of just dumbing it down to only 1 phone with 1 OS. Once all the phones are on OS5.0 I bet it will be a bit more tempting to develop apps for them. Then there will only be 1 OS version, and really only 2 input methods (trackball/trackpad)/touchscreen. I know there will be minor OS differences between phones, but nothing as drastic as having different phones on 4.3, 4.5, 4.7, etc.
    08-12-09 09:19 PM
  6. Radius's Avatar
    First of all, removing multithreading is just plain insanity. The iPhone has almost no multithreading support and it suffers because of it. Skype is a perfect example, there's no full blown implementation of it on iPhone because there's no real multitasking so they could only offer a partial solution. Multitasking is here, it's modern and it's the "now".

    The only real problem with it are less than stellar developers who can't use it properly. And nothing can change that.

    As for an application world thing, I don't want that as mandatory. It does not ensure anything akin to quality, it only stifles innovation. You write a bad application or put something bad into a later version and it gets automatically distributed to everyone. Can you roll back to an earlier copy? Not unless you can save it locally to your computer and install it yourself. This can and does happen all the time so be thankful we have more direct control over what's installed.

    And I hope everyone stops using Microsoft as an example, because those examples in some cases are so far off the mark it's painful to read.

    From what I have read time and again the #1 thing people want is eye candy with no real consideration to functionality. Sure, some other devices are flashy but how does the core functionality compare with other phones? Personally I love the address book and the ability to type a few characters to find anyone or anything. Do I need to see pics by the names or anything? No. I am already presented with everything I need to identify them.

    That's my $0.02 worth anyhow.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-13-09 01:29 AM
  7. raymund15's Avatar
    I never said the storm wasnt a good phone and not a success i love the touchscreen(except the fact i need a piece of paper in the battery cover to make it work right)(oh and who even mentioned that surepress failed????), and im not saying RIM is failing or that RIM is done for. And i just used the iphone as an example of a consumer phone. Im saying for instance ANDROID has nothing to be worried about because a lot of companies want their OS YET they are still making huge strides to better themselves even though they dont need to add much more, look at the hero and iphone dogfight on youtube to see what im talking about. All of the companies are starting to step it up big and RIM seems to be going at a steady rate while everyone else is going as fast as they can. And dont say RIM goes so slow because they want to be efficient because as we all know from the beginning of the storm release that is NOT true at all. And yes iphone took ridiculously long to get MMS but they have it now and thats the problem, every company is making steps to get the things that the blackberry has and it will only be a matter of time. And i didnt say the pre or iphone WOULD take over i said they very well COULD take over. COMPLETELY DIFFERENT STATEMENT. What i was trying to say is that the other phones could gain a lot of ground which is a fact whether you like it or not. And wow i said dont use the "im a business user and dont need blah blah..." and you still did therefore i wont reply to that comment(but i appreciate it ). And yes i know they have great security but like i said the other phones will someday get better security as well and notice you said obama asked RIM for a custom security code obviously because the blackberry needed a little extra security. Plus obviously he used a blackberry because he uses it for BUSINESS which was the whole point of this thread, that blackberry needs to step it up CONSUMER wise. I know RIM is doing good but good is not good enough. And again i know we are asking for a lot but like i also said the stuff they put under the hoods of these phones can handle it. Oh and by the way a big reason the storm sold so much was because if you look at the Verizon lineup there is nothing but useless dumb phones and the storm was the best available and might still be on Verizon but probably not the best(os wise) compared to other carriers. And i know they built the company on business but that will not sustain them and make them grow anymore what is going to make them grow is the consumer market and like it or not they will and need to be more consumer feature centric. And yes the general consumer makes bad choices but to say you dont want what they have makes you look like someone who wants something different just to feel special(i said LOOK and not that you are ), And i didnt say the things that RIM does do great they dont excell at, im saying what they dont do they do poorly or at least not good. Multitasking(android, webos, and i think nokias brand can) is not an only RIM thing so thats not a valid argument, this is not an APPLE vs RIM thread, its more of an Everyone vs RIM thread. And no need to get defensive, thats the problem, too many people want to pretend their blackberries are near perfect and when you start to think like that no one strides for anything more, and when you cant face that something needs help you become delusional. And dont even get me started on the horrible memory management(there is no defense for that ) and if there really is a security risk running apps from a card then get better memory managment i think that could be the problem that really keeps them away from being really app centric. And sorry but from what we see so far(be it unofficial so dont get mad because i said "what we see SO FAR", i know there will be changes) the storm 2 does not look like its showing any innovation at all just better hardware. And 3.2 is good but i really like the iphone video camera sorry it looks great. And a company CAN change its entire image has everyone forgotten the pre? Palm is completely different now because of webos. And i know they did not pull in great numbers but you have to know that they did make a splash. And about the whole app thing and os thing. Yes the 4.### OS's were going forward great but look at 4.7 to 5.0, some new features but the same and still not on par with other OS's, function and look wise, and sorry that is important these days. Oh and the voice control feature on the iphone is innovative, i havent seen RIM do anything like that. Please dont go back to the security, business whatever because of that comment, i already addressed that. And the windows comparison is not really on par with what im talking about but i get your points. Anyway to clarify im not saying RIM is failing at all im saying everyone else is moving forward fast and RIM is moving forward just at a leisurely pace.


    Oh and sorry i changed subjects a lot just i was addressing different comments at different times.
    08-13-09 02:18 AM
  8. Radius's Avatar
    As a favor, please please please use paragraphs.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-13-09 02:24 AM
  9. Tripster's Avatar
    I agree with you ray!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-13-09 02:55 AM
  10. raymund15's Avatar
    Ha sorry Radius ill use paragraphs from now on


    And thanks tripster


    And thanks to everyone i just wanna know what everyone thinks here at crackberry, discussions like these are always fun
    08-13-09 03:40 AM
  11. Xopher's Avatar
    Raymund... man... that last run-on was very hard to read! Paragraphs would be such a better way to go!

    If you look at the RIM hardware, it has grown. Maybe not by leaps and bounds, but there have been improvements. The camera was bumped up from 2.0 to 3.2MP. Trackpads are making their way onto devices. Screen resolutions jumped up from the 320x240 range. All within pretty much the same size form factors. Having a flash is a wonderul thing as well.

    There is plenty of room for improvement in the hardware. Higher megapixels, video acceleration, more app memory...

    The iPhone has the same amount of application running space as the newer Blackerry lineup (Tour, Storm, Bold). The big differences are in hardware are video acceleration and application storage. Some of the high-graphic iPhone apps can take up several megs of space. But, because of the way the hardware and OS work together, there are some really neat apps (graphically) on the iPhone.

    RIM's OS really does need a makeover, but it doesn't have to be a huge jump in a different direction (like WebOS). Upping web browsing capabilities, better video codecs, and allowing apps to be installed outside of internal memory (like even allowing the Bold to use the 1GB added internal memory) - heck, it can even be a flag in the install procedure for developers to require internal memory installation when security is an issue (I don't think Tetris needs a secure installation location). The first big company to support flash is going to have a giant leap on competition.

    I haven't delved into the world of BB app development yet. I wrote programs for other platforms for well over 18 years. What concerns me about BB app development is the number of OS platforms, various screen sizes, and even different hardware within the same device lineup (apps that work on an 8320 don't always work on an 8330, or from one carrier to another). On the development side of things, RIM needs to make it easier to create apps. Hopefully things will become more uniform as 5.x takes its place.

    I'm happy with what my BB can do. There is definitely room for improvement. I think it is a little short-sided to think that the browser is the biggest change needed. But, with changes made all around, there are ways to make the BB an even better experience.
    Last edited by Xopher; 08-13-09 at 09:23 AM.
    08-13-09 09:21 AM
  12. papped's Avatar
    I haven't delved into the world of BB app development yet. I wrote programs for other platforms for well over 18 years. What concerns me about BB app development is the number of OS platforms, various screen sizes, and even different hardware within the same device lineup (apps that work on an 8320 don't always work on an 8330, or from one carrier to another). On the development side of things, RIM needs to make it easier to create apps. Hopefully things will become more uniform as 5.x takes its place.
    Those are basically the issues. Restricted api's, and device differences. Even if you "fix" one of them, the other is a huge problem still.

    I doubt either one of those are going to change drastically any time soon, which results in BB development != iphone development (not even close).

    But if I wanted homogenized device choices I would pick a different platform anyways.
    08-13-09 05:56 PM
  13. raymund15's Avatar
    Having one device would not work for RIM, its more of an apple thing, which might not last that long but for now thats their thing.

    I also know RIM doesnt need a complete makeover like palm, but thats the point, they need to fix their shortcomings soon and catch up before they get to the point of actually needing a complete makeover.

    What would take RIM to takeover mode would be to get a MUCH improved memory management system on all blackberrys. Along with better graphic acceleration and if their future phones like the odin, onyx, and driftwood shot in at least 30 fps VGA with a good video editor. That would really take them to another level. If they did that the other companies would really have a hard time keeping up with RIM.


    Also new innovations on the consumer side like the voice control feature on the iphone, im not asking for that, just something on that innovation level. I mean when you look at media on berrys like music, videos, and ringtones, theyre all just kinda there. They work for the most part but nothing more at all. Add ons to that department would really give them a boost.

    I especially like what lg is doing with their dumb phones and adding dolby digital mobile, rich sound and graphics will always help you sell, just look at the response to the new Zune HD.
    08-14-09 03:04 AM
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