[Bbnivende]

There is sufficient evidence here on CrackBerry and in the public domain to confirm that in particular that the Q10 and Z10 were both plagued by the bump reboot problem.



It seems to me that perhaps users who do not use cases or who are a little more careless with their phones might be more prone to this problem. BlackBerry is not alone. The Samsung line of phones with a removable battery are more likely to have this problem than an iPhone.

It might indeed be possible to engineer a more rugged phone but I still do not see BlackBerry doing this. The LG remains the last premium phone sold with a removable battery. All of the reviewers seem to like the quality feel of the new Blackberry phones including the new Leap. The vast majority of customers will prefer the looks and feel of the new devices with their solid construction.

Still - I think that it would be correct to build one Bold style device with a removable battery to exploit what is left of that market. Perhaps a new Q10 with a the Classic Key Board and a more solid battery installation and a 3.5 inch screen with a higher PPI and a faster processor.

[Jo Erne]

A bongtillion times larger? Maybe, but for all practical purposes, I get the same length of use from the charge on my 3 month-old Z30 as I did on my 9930. With light use--working and computing on home computers--I just about get through a full day and into the evening. When I'm out all day and really using it a lot, my battery's depleted by mid-day. Granted, I do many more things on my Z30 than I did with the 9930, but I still have to carry some means of re-charging.

That said, I don't mind that the battery is not removable. As someone else said, fewer issues. My one worry is that depleted removable batteries can be replaced, which extends the life of the phone. Do these have longer life than the old batteries? For the 9930, I bought a new one +/- every year, and used the phone for four years.

[Bbnivende]

A bongtillion times larger? Maybe, but for all practical purposes, I get the same length of use from the charge on my 3 month-old Z30 as I did on my 9930. With light use--working and computing on home computers--I just about get through a full day and into the evening. When I'm out all day and really using it a lot, my battery's depleted by mid-day. Granted, I do many more things on my Z30 than I did with the 9930, but I still have to carry some means of re-charging.

That said, I don't mind that the battery is not removable. As someone else said, fewer issues. My one worry is that depleted removable batteries can be replaced, which extends the life of the phone. Do these have longer life than the old batteries? For the 9930, I bought a new one +/- every year, and used the phone for four years.

Independent third party testing shows that a Z30 phone should last about 40% longer than a 9900 phone on one charge. The Passport about twice as long. A heavy user should really investigate purchasing a phone with a longer battery life.

Battery life tests - GSMArena.com

Phones with batteries that last a long time will not need replacing or removing for many years as well.

[CharlieV]

well actually, anecdotal or not, I will say that indeed I have had the 9000, the torch, one Z10 and the Q10 and indeed, none of them had battery connection problems but in all of them with the exception of the 9000, have been accompanied with extra batteries.

Especially for the torch, I did have to buy an extra new battery for it since at the beginning of its 3rd year it started dying on $e really fast, so I had to get me a new battery, since I still wanted to use the phone. If it did not have a removable battery I would most probably have had to change phone, as in 2012-13 (then bb10 came along ) , there was absolutely no support in Greece for BlackBerry phones and my mobile was considered to be a dinosaur by most people. all I did was to order a battery and the torch is still functioning perfectly as I write this, I can charge it and switch it on.

The whole thing cost me 20Euro postage included.
If my passport's battery fails me, I am not sure I could deal with it as easy as I did with my torch.

another example is, that at the moment I am writing on the Q10, cause I had to give my passport a charge, so I switched the sim to the Q, which is at 100% and with a spare battery fully charged available... seriously, to not want a removable battery is one thing, to cheer against it though... still do not understand the point.

Posted via my Q10 usimg CB10 app

Agreed. Here's the reason:

Schadenfreude (/ˈʃɑːdənfrɔɪdə/; German: [ˈʃaːdn̩ˌfʀɔɪ̯də]) is pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others.[1] This word is taken from German and literally means 'harm-joy.' It is the feeling of joy or pleasure when one sees another fail or suffer misfortune. It is also borrowed by some other languages

Add a little:

opinionated**
[-āt′id]
Use opinionated in a sentence

adjective
The definition of opinionated is having, and not being afraid to state, strong beliefs or opinions.
Someone who believes thathe knows the correct solution to many of the world's problems and who asserts it as the only right answer, is an example of someone who would be described as opinionated.

And sprinkle the slightest taste of:

http://artists.letssingit.com/leann-...-to-do-gp3zq67

Posted via CB 10 on my Passport SQW100-1 sporting 10.3.1.2582

[belfastdispatcher]

I've owned a Bold 9930, a Z10, and 2 Q10s, and none of them ever experienced such an issue.

See, I can use anecdotal evidence, too.

Me either but apparently some had.

[belfastdispatcher]

There is sufficient evidence here on CrackBerry and in the public domain to confirm that in particular that the Q10 and Z10 were both plagued by the bump reboot problem.



It seems to me that perhaps users who do not use cases or who are a little more careless with their phones might be more prone to this problem. BlackBerry is not alone. The Samsung line of phones with a removable battery are more likely to have this problem than an iPhone.

It might indeed be possible to engineer a more rugged phone but I still do not see BlackBerry doing this. The LG remains the last premium phone sold with a removable battery. All of the reviewers seem to like the quality feel of the new Blackberry phones including the new Leap. The vast majority of customers will prefer the looks and feel of the new devices with their solid construction.

Still - I think that it would be correct to build one Bold style device with a removable battery to exploit what is left of that market. Perhaps a new Q10 with a the Classic Key Board and a more solid battery installation and a 3.5 inch screen with a higher PPI and a faster processor.

Are we sure it's the battery and not another component? My iphone reboots at least a couple of times a week and on top of that I have to reboot it manually too a couple of times

[Bbnivende]

Agreed. Here's the reason:

Schadenfreude (/ˈʃɑːdənfrɔɪdə/; German: [ˈʃaːdn̩ˌfʀɔɪ̯də]) is pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others.[1] This word is taken from German and literally means 'harm-joy.' It is the feeling of joy or pleasure when one sees another fail or suffer misfortune. It is also borrowed by some other languages

Add a little:

opinionated**
[-āt′id]
Use opinionated in a sentence

adjective
The definition of opinionated is having, and not being afraid to state, strong beliefs or opinions.
Someone who believes thathe knows the correct solution to many of the world's problems and who asserts it as the only right answer, is an example of someone who would be described as opinionated.

And sprinkle the slightest taste of:

http://artists.letssingit.com/leann-...-to-do-gp3zq67

Posted via CB 10 on my Passport SQW100-1 sporting 10.3.1.2582

Probably because the minority is trying to dictate to the majority who remember that both the Z10 and Q10 were unreliable phones in some part due to having removable battery.

If BlackBerry could make a reliable, sturdy, long lasting, premium feel phone with a removable battery then count me in. BlackBerry has to build phones that have broad appeal and Battery life and ease of replacement is just one factor.

Posted via CB10

[jmr1015]

You're helping to prove my point.

Track down an authorized repair center
Order battery
Wait for it to arrive by mail
Miss the delivery guy because you were on the can
Drive to post office, pick up battery
Stop at tool shop, buy specialized tools to open the phone up with
Find a repair manual online
Wait a few hours because the coffee is making your hands jittery
Bravely tear apart a $700 phone filled with tiny delicate connectors
Remove battery, install new one, reassemble while hoping you've done it right....

My way:
Drive to Future Shop, buy replacement battery, get back to car, put seatbelt on, swap battery, start car, plug in phone to charger, drive home.

Let's face it - most smartphone users aren't repair techs and have no interest in repairing it themselves.

If you're not able to accomplish those things due to lack of time or ability, isn't a lot of that stuff the reason we have personal assistants?

For almost 20 years all my phones had replaceable batteries, nobody is "trying to replicate the 9900 experience"

My very first phone, an Alcatel, could take AA batteries in an emergency.

Manufacturers are forcing this on consumers, and they are the only ones that will benefit from it by making phones more "disposable" so we're forced to buy new ones sooner.

This is not a long term sustainable model in my view.

A non-removable battery is not a non-replaceable battery. If the battery goes bad, get it replaced. You're not being "forced" to buy a new phone sooner.

[belfastdispatcher]

Independent third party testing shows that a Z30 phone should last about 40% longer than a 9900 phone on one charge. The Passport about twice as long. A heavy user should really investigate purchasing a phone with a longer battery life.

Battery life tests - GSMArena.com

Phones with batteries that last a long time will not need replacing or removing for many years as well.

A real heavy user had the option to get a much bigger battery for their device, I had one for my 9700 and 9900.

[Bbnivende]

A real heavy user had the option to get a much bigger battery for their device, I had one for my 9700 and 9900.

I do not disagree and if BlackBerry should decide that there sufficient heavy users in the marketplace that would purchase a BlackBerry just because it has a removable battery then they should build it. This need is hard to establish but I could see one model with that option but not as a general consideration.

Posted via CB10

[Bbnivende]

Are we sure it's the battery and not another component? My iphone reboots at least a couple of times a week and on top of that I have to reboot it manually too a couple of times

Well that is strange. Our iPhone nor my children's iPhone 's have ever suffered a random reboot. The BlackBerry reboot issue was often cured by placing a card over the battery. The Samsung reboot issue seems to be both a software and a hardware issue. The bump reboot issue seems to be caused by a loose battery connection.

Time will tell but the rebooting issue seems to have been fixed or less prevalent on their most recent BlackBerry models.

Posted via CB10

[currentodysseys]

Probably because the minority is trying to dictate to the majority who remember that both the Z10 and Q10 were unreliable phones in some part due to having removable battery.

If BlackBerry could make a reliable, sturdy, long lasting, premium feel phone with a removable battery then count me in. BlackBerry has to build phones that have broad appeal and Battery life and ease of replacement is just one factor.

Posted via CB10

look, I do not have the time to do it myself and quote for you, but I invite you to browse the CB threads just before it was known that BB would create encased battery phones (and during speculation of the first encased battery - z30): one thing is CLEAR: People up to that time in CB were boasting the great advantages that replaceable batteries have and that it was a deciding factor, and that iphones were not as good in that department, blah blah... you get the point. Then suddenly, fanboysm got some people to start attacking the removable battery "crowd".

I will tell you one thing and with this I rest my case, as we are going around in circles: You can paint it any colour you want; no one is dictating from this side of the fence (pro removable battery). There are objective advantages of having a removable battery and they by far overcome encased, when it concerns the USER gaining and not the company producing it. You have been spinning around the questions and never answered some of them, your perception has been "why should bb produce this, they have no reason". You of course are not obliged to answer; I am just mentioning it because your argumentation is at best random and disperse; and now you go on the offensive "Probably because the minority is trying to dictate to the majority...".

You have your opinion, others have theirs, majority or minority. Some facts are objective either you guys want to accept them or not: companies can make phones with replaceable batteries (heck they can improve the design for the "random reboots" even not all of us that take care of our phones had them after 4 devices with removable battery and 5 years later). If they do not, it is not because the phone is more shiny, is cooler, it is unibody or wears a bikini.

It is because THEY save money, WE as CONSUMERS lose money on that deal and without specific or tangible reasons apart from promo marketing fed ideas and "general conceptions". On top they earn MORE money, they do not just save. Here is how:

People do not know how a battery works, or what battery is for that matter, but they "know" encased batteries function better because they are "more protected" than the removable batteries, that precisely have a better casing due to the fact that they are more "exposed". You get my point I guess.

On another issue (mentioned like 20.00000 times already) "study" the life cycle intervention mk processes that affect designs. It is much better to have earnings via after sales, extended guarantees and shorter phone replacement cycles than to give a replaceable battery. For the companies that is. Which means that we pay that bill to them. If this is so hard for people to grasp, then there is no point in keep going around in circles about it, but wether you like it or not, "Unibody slick design" is NOT why batteries are encased. Critical mission equipment has removable batteries. Even expensive consumer goods like Cars have removable closed-type batteries nowadays but phones need unibody encased batteries.... (?)

You know why? Because if they pulled the "unibody" encased battery Marketing stand in a car, NO-ONE would buy it, it would be irrational, because cars cost a fortune... well the ratio value/money when you spend 1/20th of a car's value for an iphone, I think it is higher, but even then: noooo "phone's need unibody sleek design encased battery 'features'" because it makes batteries work better" - even if people do not know what a battery really is or how it works. (I am not a battery expert, but heck, I spent 10 or so hours learning a bit more than what I learned in high-school about electricity batteries and capacitors). While battery resides in chemical reaction it is de-gradable (FACT).

additionally, in my posts initially in this thread I wrote about the new types of batteries that will evolve to overcome current rectangular design and why they are not the reason of encased batteries; still need time to get there. When we do get there, there may be an argument against removable/ user accessible batteries.

I rest my case.

[lnichols]

I've owned a Bold 9930, a Z10, and 2 Q10s, and none of them ever experienced such an issue.

See, I can use anecdotal evidence, too.

You haven't had it happen. Their are people here that have had it happen. Threads are here on the issue. I've seen it with all my BlackBerry devices and with other people's devices that the design does have issues. That's not anecdotal evidence, it is evidence. Does it happen to everyone? No but but it is happening to people with these devices. Most people aren't dying from the GM ignition recall, but some people did and it is a major design flaw.

Posted via CB10

[anon(6038817)]

You haven't had it happen. Their are people here that have had it happen. Threads are here on the issue. I've seen it with all my BlackBerry devices and with other people's devices that the design does have issues. That's not anecdotal evidence, it is evidence. Does it happen to everyone? No but but it is happening to people with these devices. Most people aren't dying from the GM ignition recall, but some people did and it is a major design flaw.

Posted via CB10

It's not happening on the scale you are implying it is. Of course there are forum threads about it. And of course many people with those same issues are posting in those forums. But considering there are millions of these devices in use, it's obviously only affecting a fraction of them.

[TgeekB]

This is becoming hilarious.

Z30something

[anon(6038817)]

This is becoming hilarious.

Z30something

It jumped the shark pages ago.

[CharlieV]

It jumped the shark pages ago.

For sure. I wish someone would post a tally of the Sealers versus the Replacers and close the thread.

Having said that with a sealed battery I cannot get a larger, extended battery for my phone.

Hahahahah. Oh who am I kidding; beyond caring.

Tallyman, I am a replacer.

Posted via CB 10 on my Passport SQW100-1 sporting 10.3.1.2582

[Prem WatsApp]

For sure. I wish someone would post a tally of the Sealers versus the Replacers and close the thread.

Having said that with a sealed battery I cannot get a larger, extended battery for my phone.

Hahahahah. Oh who am I kidding; beyond caring.

Tallyman, I am a replacer.

Posted via CB 10 on my Passport SQW100-1 sporting 10.3.1.2582

Count me in for removal... ;-)

�   Passposted while waiting for the Zzzzzlider....   �

[Bbnivende]

The party has moved over to "I will tell you why blackberry hardware sales are low......" thread. See you there ! BYOB.

[currentodysseys]

The party has moved over to "I will tell you why blackberry hardware sales are low......" thread. See you there ! BYOB.

lol, grabbing my Guinness....

(Posted via CB10 on my beloved Passport) Common logic was introduced in order to balance the absurdity of common perception, then we invented marketing and messed it all up again

[CharlieV]

Tried an experiment today that may explain some of the wildly different battery results. I deleted all android apps. Not only did I not have to charge during the day but I have 37 percent left. I would normally be at 37 percent left from my second charge. Just FYI.

Posted via CB 10 on my Passport SQW100-1 sporting 10.3.1.2582

[Mack Gans]

Tried an experiment today that may explain some of the wildly different battery results. I deleted all android apps. Not only did I not have to charge during the day but I have 37 percent left. I would normally be at 37 percent left from my second charge. Just FYI.

Posted via CB 10 on my Passport SQW100-1 sporting 10.3.1.2582

I wish Viber, Instagram, Netflix and others would port their Android apps to BB10.


Posted via CB10

[Bbnivende]

Tried an experiment today that may explain some of the wildly different battery results. I deleted all android apps. Not only did I not have to charge during the day but I have 37 percent left. I would normally be at 37 percent left from my second charge. Just FYI.

Posted via CB 10 on my Passport SQW100-1 sporting 10.3.1.2582

Try BB10 app Taskmaster after reloading your Android apps. It will tell you what apps are running in the background.

Posted via CB10

[whodathunkit]

On a recent trip cross-country, I accidently left my BB on in my briefcase. After my 7 hour trip, I looked at my device and it was nearly depleted. Still great battery life for a 3+ year old Bold! More importantly, what a pleasure to pop out my nearly depleted battery and pop in a fully charged one allowing me to be up and running with full power in less than a minute. I traveled with a few colleagues and saw them tethered to a battery charger. How comical watching them walking around tethered to a battery. I suppose I can see how some can argue that is a good way to go. I agree to a certain extent - (i) if I have no choice and (ii) it beats being tethered to a wall socket. Factually, I was up and running in less than a minute. My colleagues were tethered to a battery - albeit mobile - it still took in excess of 30 minutes to get a fair amount of charge - still not full power like a fresh battery.

Again, I am baffled at others who say they don't want the option of swapping out a battery. Arguments in this post include cost, style/look, problems with connection with use and the simple, "I would never use it since my device gets me thru the day and i tether at night"

Cost - it's hard for me to imagine any significant cost for this option. Others have said maybe a few pennies in added plastic and cost of a spring or two. Lets exaggerate and say it's a dollar. Is a dollar going to break the bank?

Style/Look - a few posters say they like the clean lines and unibody look. Well, ok, but I don't know of anyone (I am sure there are some but I have not seen any) who does not protect their device with an exterior case. If that is correct, why would one care if the device is a unibody or not when its encased in a cover?

Battery connection on/off issues - i don't know how to comment other than to tell you on the BB Bold, the batter is held in place by 4 or 5 springed prongs. I have had my device 3+ years and never had an issue with on/off problems. The battery is held in place nice and snug and no issues.

Never swap out a battery - well, ok - that is fine but why deny the choice to many others who want this option. Realistically, if the option were there, at least once or more during your ownership, you will remove the battery - either for replacement or other. Why not have it?

Although I am a firm believer in have the swapable batter choice, I am a practical person. The fact is this entire thread may be moot since I have not seen a new device - BB or other - with swapable capability. Even the new S6 is a unibody. I hope demand changes the course but as it now, i better start shopping for a tethered battery if I purchase a new device.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9930 using Tapatalk

[Bbnivende]

Look at GSM arena battery tests. There are some devices with fantastic battery life and some just so.. Secondly, you are getting a much better phone. The LG G3 and Samsung galaxy 5 both have removable batteries and are good phones.

http://www.gsmarena.com/battery-test.php3

Coming from a small phone you might like : http://www.gsmarena.com/sony_xperia_z3_compact-6538.php

This is one phone that might get you through the day.

Posted via CB10