[conite]

Not sure about this...otherwise sales for Q5, Q10, Passport and Classic would be by the millions!!!

Not when those keyboards were attached to BB10 devices. That's all that proves.

PassportSQW100-4/10.3.2.2639

[Cynycl]

What is it you think I haven't accepted?

The fact that you are in denial. You don't seem to be alone though.

The conspiracy is that BBRY couldn't make a device or OS that appealed to the masses and thus WHY would any major app or dev care about a BB10 app. That's all there is to it.

Hope this helps................






PS: Gene Hackman is playing the part of BB10

[abass]

Hey, great article. It really opened my eyes because even though I have spent my life in software (mostly maintenance / support) I'm not in software development. I work for corporation that's selling something else.

So, I have been used to the model of "grow your user base because the maintenance fees from that software is what's paying the bills" for the software vendor.

I have actually lived through something like this: we were on a proprietary Hewlett-Packard (MPE) system and moved to HP's flavour of Unix. This sort of transition that BB is looking at may just work.

I would consider an Android-based slider, if not for the costly and messy divorce, as my wife has very bluntly informed me that since I only got my Classic 3 months ago, I do NOT need another BB!

Ah well ...

Appreciate the kind words and glad you got something out of it

And come on man, just buy the slider outright and if she catches you a few weeks later, just choose then which of the two devices to sell after having used them both! It's a bulletproof plan! But then again.. I'm not married so I really wouldn't totally trust my advice haha

[DrBoomBotz]

Appreciate the kind words and glad you got something out of it

And come on man, just buy the slider outright and if she catches you a few weeks later, just choose then which of the two devices to sell after having used them both! It's a bulletproof plan! But then again.. I'm not married so I really wouldn't totally trust my advice haha

This may be some of the worst advice ever given on CrackBerry

[abass]

This may be some of the worst advice ever given on CrackBerry

While I definitely agree, I also think that you grossly underestimate this community..

[DrBoomBotz]

While I definitely agree, I also think that you grossly underestimate this community..

Yes I realize that now .

[RyanGermann]

The fact that you are in denial. You don't seem to be alone though.

Not that I understand what you're talking about, but is "Cynycl" an alias for "Bbnivende"?

I'm not in denial about the fact that BB10 is in rapid decline, if it can be said it was ever in ascendance... nor am I in denial about the fact that leading app vendors are not going to develop apps for BB10. Nor am I in denial that BB is going to give Android a try.

Those who think that adopting Android IN AND OF ITSELF is somehow going to "turn things around" for BlackBerry are the ones who are in denial.

Now, if BlackBerry adopts Android AND release powerful devices AND market them well AND continue to work on repairing carrier relationships AND reduce the number of hardware problems AND start seeing economies of scale in their handset manufacturing AND... well, you see what I think it will take for BlackBerry to turn their handset division from a liability to an asset... but in that huge list of stars that have to align for BlackBerry's handset division to be profitable again, even though it's evident that BB is decreasing investment in BB10, orphaning BB10 OS development and / or making it unavailable to general consumers isn't going to SUPPORT growth of BlackBerry's handset division: it will hinder it, because it sends the message to customers that BlackBerry won't support their products for a reasonable amount of time (well, BlackBerry under Chen, I mean: Thor made it very clear they would pull the plug really quickly which scared the willies out of lots of potential customers).

Enterprise customers don't change devices on six month cycles like some consumers do, and BlackBerry can't be seen to be abandoning something they sold into enterprise customers' environments as little as a year ago. So, BB10 will persist, but will it grow at all? Does it need to? Time will tell.

It's called Qc and maintaining the integrity of your brand. If osme 3rd party writes a BB10 ap and a network breach occurs because of that app, the headline is not going to be "3rd party app causes user data leak", it will be"Massive user data leak at SnapChat".

I'm sure if BlackBerry developed a SnapChat client, it would be full of security holes and malicious code </sarcasm>

[md812]

Love the article. It nails the point on an intellectual level but ignores the reality. The BlackBerry name is where the problem is with the consumer public, they should have ditched it at the beginning of the turnaround. It doesn't matter if the device has iOS or Android, most (younger) people are not going to buy it because "BlackBerry is what my Dad used to use at the office". For most people is has nothing to do with the apps because they cannot see anything past the BlackBerry name. I have seen people playing with the Z10 display model in stores, comment on how nice it is and how easy it is to use, see the BlackBerry name on it, put it down and walk away. I was so looking forward to the slider, but I will not buy it if it has Android on it. If I wanted an Android device I would have bought one a long time ago. Sigh, maybe it's time to go back to a flip phone.

[anon(6038817)]

Love the article. It nails the point on an intellectual level but ignores the reality. The BlackBerry name is where the problem is with the consumer public, they should have ditched it at the beginning of the turnaround. It doesn't matter if the device has iOS or Android, most (younger) people are not going to buy it because "BlackBerry is what my Dad used to use at the office". For most people is has nothing to do with the apps because they cannot see anything past the BlackBerry name. I have seen people playing with the Z10 display model in stores, comment on how nice it is and how easy it is to use, see the BlackBerry name on it, put it down and walk away. I was so looking forward to the slider, but I will not buy it if it has Android on it. If I wanted an Android device I would have bought one a long time ago. Sigh, maybe it's time to go back to a flip phone.

BB10 devices will still be around for a while, so back away from the window.

But I believe they will eventually be phased out in favor of the Android-based OS. I figure we still have 2-3 years before it's EOL'd.

[abass]

Love the article. It nails the point on an intellectual level but ignores the reality. The BlackBerry name is where the problem is with the consumer public, they should have ditched it at the beginning of the turnaround. It doesn't matter if the device has iOS or Android, most (younger) people are not going to buy it because "BlackBerry is what my Dad used to use at the office". For most people is has nothing to do with the apps because they cannot see anything past the BlackBerry name. I have seen people playing with the Z10 display model in stores, comment on how nice it is and how easy it is to use, see the BlackBerry name on it, put it down and walk away. I was so looking forward to the slider, but I will not buy it if it has Android on it. If I wanted an Android device I would have bought one a long time ago. Sigh, maybe it's time to go back to a flip phone.

See, it's a weird thing (thank you by the way, glad you enjoyed it). The name is definitely is a large barrier of entry for most people. BlackBerry has grown such a negative connotation in the general public. I definitely agree. But when it comes to the sales process is when the apps really hurt the platform. I've converted SO many people on BB10. My entire family is currently on BB10, and I managed to get most of my close friends on BB10 aswell. The platform sold itself when you put it in the hands of people and a slight budge from a sales person (or me for that matter in respect to the people I have converted). But there were some limitations, and especially retention problems. Of the 12 or so people I converted, 3 or 4 have left to Android/iOS simply because of the app situation. And the friends and family members that are still on it, hammer me constantly about apps. I become the IT support person for everyone, installing snap, getting them android apps. They complain about many of the apps not working well, or at all. They are frustrated. And it frustrates me because I feel like I let them down, AND it totally sucks being at everyone's beck and call whenever they have a problem. They will call me before searching google for simple or complex answers. Wastes a lot of my time.

So it's a really really really difficult thing to simply say that the name "BlackBerry" is the ultimate thing to blame here. Because that's not absolutely the whole truth. Retention is a big deal, and my friends that left BB10 after having it for a couple years do love and miss the HUB, but it wasn't enough to keep them on the platform. The only people who I have managed to keep on BB10 after converting them are my mom, step dad, aunt, older cousin, and siblings. All of which don't care whatsoever about apps. But retaining customers who do care about apps, that's nearly impossible to do for BlackBerry on BB10.

The company name being BlackBerry is DEFINITELY a huge huge huge huge huge huge huge barrier to entry. I couldn't agree more. But I can tell you from experience that just getting people onto BB10 is not the difficult part per-say, it's retaining them. And if they are app people and they ask about apps, even giving the Android runtime shpeal, it's not that easy to convert people. Apps are still a HUGE part of the problem for BB10's growth. If you don't care about apps, it's very difficult to see this, but I have seen from first-hand experience with a handful of people falling in-love with BB10, yet leaving it two years later after being frustrated from the app situation.

[KISS ARMY]

Hi everybody!!

I've been following this thread and one thing that hasn't ever been mentioned (correct me if I'm wrong), is the idea that maybe there is something more at play here than just a simple user base?

Has anyone ever looked into the idea that at the time of launch of BlackBerry 10, to eliminate the threat of a new OS, "stealing" users, could perhaps Apple or Google for that matter made contact with prominent application companies (ie. Instagram, SnapChat, Periscope, etc.) and force them to only develop for iOS or Android? Do you not think this already occurs in carrier stores? Look at how BlackBerry 10 has been displayed in carrier stores over the past 3 years. But Apple will have a huge, bright, and well positioned spots in any carrier store and partner stores (ie. Best Buy, Wireless Wave etc.). Do you think they get those kinds of accommodations for free? It's business!! But what's to say iOS and Android haven't gone to app developers and said "if you wanna be in the itunes store or Google Play, you develop for us, and for us only!!

Because really, in the grand scheme of things, whether you have 10 million users, or 10 billion users, SnapChat is just a freakin IM application. How are they even making money off it, other than the obvious data mining of course.

Your thoughts....

Cheers!!

Posted via CB10

[Troy Tiscareno]

Has anyone ever looked into the idea that at the time of launch of BlackBerry 10, to eliminate the threat of a new OS, "stealing" users, could perhaps Apple or Google for that matter made contact with prominent application companies (ie. Instagram, SnapChat, Periscope, etc.) and force them to only develop for iOS or Android?

To believe this, you'd have to believe that Apple or Google ever looked at BB10 as a threat to their businesses. I very seriously doubt that's the case - there was never anything about BB10 that suggested that it would be a threat. Now, WinPhone, given its backing by MS, is a potential threat, but MS has done a pretty good job of shooting itself in the foot all by itself, as has BB, so, again, not really a threat worth worrying about. Perhaps WP10 may be the first serious threat as a third platform that Apple and Google will see.

[BCITMike]

Hi everybody!!

I've been following this thread and one thing that hasn't ever been mentioned (correct me if I'm wrong), is the idea that maybe there is something more at play here than just a simple user base?

Has anyone ever looked into the idea that at the time of launch of BlackBerry 10, to eliminate the threat of a new OS, "stealing" users, could perhaps Apple or Google for that matter made contact with prominent application companies (ie. Instagram, SnapChat, Periscope, etc.) and force them to only develop for iOS or Android? Do you not think this already occurs in carrier stores? Look at how BlackBerry 10 has been displayed in carrier stores over the past 3 years. But Apple will have a huge, bright, and well positioned spots in any carrier store and partner stores (ie. Best Buy, Wireless Wave etc.). Do you think they get those kinds of accommodations for free? It's business!! But what's to say iOS and Android haven't gone to app developers and said "if you wanna be in the itunes store or Google Play, you develop for us, and for us only!!

Because really, in the grand scheme of things, whether you have 10 million users, or 10 billion users, SnapChat is just a freakin IM application. How are they even making money off it, other than the obvious data mining of course.

Your thoughts....

Cheers!!

Posted via CB10

Apple Inc probe intensifies as Canada?s Competition Bureau seeks data from wireless carriers | Financial Post

The Bureau is asking for details about the carriers’ obligations to Apple in contracts that began on January 1, 2008. These obligations “may have or may likely have the effect of lessening or preventing competition substantially in a market,” the court filings state. These clauses may therefore “increase the price Canadians have paid, are paying or will pay for handset devices and/or other wireless services.”

I read that the Canadian government was investigating Apple for anti competitive products for making Canadian cell providers do certain things. I don't recall off the top of my head, but there were a few examples list in the news that made me go, "jesus, that should be illegal if it isn't already". It seemed like it was confirmed language from a contract that was leaked and that is why the investigation was public and going forward.. there was definitely evidence to show anti-competitive clauses...

My guess, is this came about when Canadian government wanted to do away with 3 year contracts, and providers said, 'but, wait, look at our contracts'.

Same old Jobs, with price fixing (books and music), using dealer plates and knowingly violating employment laws. They've proven the penalty is well worth the benefit.

Apple's lawyers are going to be way better than the governments. I'm betting this will be a pittance fine when said and done.

[KISS ARMY]

To believe this, you'd have to believe that Apple or Google ever looked at BB10 as a threat to their businesses. I very seriously doubt that's the case - there was never anything about BB10 that suggested that it would be a threat. Now, WinPhone, given its backing by MS, is a potential threat, but MS has done a pretty good job of shooting itself in the foot all by itself, as has BB, so, again, not really a threat worth worrying about. Perhaps WP10 may be the first serious threat as a third platform that Apple and Google will see.

But that's just it Troy. How many members here on CB accused BlackBerry of not really taking Apple seriously in 2007, only to be burned in the end.

My point is that perhaps Apple and/or Google was being very clever at the time of BlackBerry promoting the upcoming release of BlackBerry 10 and took steps to prevent any successful launch by getting to the app developers before BlackBerry could get them on board. The one thing that has handicapped BlackBerry 10 was infact applications and games. I remember it like it was yesterday, how people were screaming for Netflix and Instagram. Now in 2015 we are talking about Uber, and SnapChat.

A Tin Foil Hat moment.....perhaps. But Apple has been accused of unscrupulous practices in the past.

Cheers!!

Posted via CB10

[anon(9353145)]

Thor made it very clear they would pull the plug really quickly which scared the willies out of lots of potential customers).

Enterprise customers don't change devices on six month cycles like some consumers do, and BlackBerry can't be seen to be abandoning something they sold into enterprise customers' environments as little as a year ago.

Good points. I think putting up the FOR SALE sign in the summer of 2013 did more to scare away enterprise than anything else. Prior to that event, they were still selling legacy BBOS devices in great numbers - greater than BB10 I believe. Then those BBOS numbers began to really nosedive after the debacle of briefly trying to sell the company. I think it really, really spooked that base of BlackBerry holdovers, and put a further jinx on BB10 adoption. That was a horrible, terrible mistake on the part of the company, imho.

However, I think if they can continue with their cross platform strategy and bring a stable 'BlackBerryesque' Android experience via the Slider / an all touch / Passport / whatever with good hardware and BlackBerry IP, then they can potentially undo the damage. And while they're almost certainly putting BB10 on the backburner while all hands are on deck for an Android port, they haven't EOL'ed BB10, at least not yet. In its current iteration (10.3.2) it's a good OS, and one that can continue to service secure niche environments (eg. government) with little maintenance (and little cost). While it's never going to overtake Apple or Android, I'm not sure it's dead yet (apologies to Python).

[Troy Tiscareno]

But that's just it Troy. How many members here on CB accused BlackBerry of not really taking Apple seriously in 2007, only to be burned in the end.

The thing that BB didn't take seriously was that Apple (and then Google) could make products that END USERS (rather than CTOs of big companies) would want to buy, and would buy, in huge numbers. Mike was wearing blinders and living in an an echo chamber of his own creation, that said "enterprise is the main purchasers of cell phones, carriers were the 'customer', cellular data networks would never handle full web browsing, and that apps were secondary to email and messaging."

Note that the press was FULL of stories, for YEARS, starting in 2009, explaining why BB should adopt Android - and it was all about the ecosystem. It was no secret, even back then, that developers would only want to support a few (at most) ecosystems, and that being in 3rd Place would be really tough, and anything after 3rd Place would make you irrelevant. Many people could see that BB lacked the resources, partners, and attitude to meet the needs of consumers (their focus was always on satisfying the carriers and enterprise). Surely Mike read some of these stories, but he obviously thought BB could get it done - but they were about 4 years too late, with very little time remaining on the clock, and by the time they started trying to attract developers, most developers could see the writing on the wall - that BB had little hope of developing an entire new platform and gaining the userbase to make it relevant. They didn't need Apple or Google to convince them.

Even if you believe that Apple or Google went to Facebook or Netflix and convinced them not to develop for BB10, why didn't all of the smaller developers come to BB10? Surely Apple/Google didn't make arrangements with ALL of their developers, and yet somehow manage to keep it a secret all these years? That would have been a HUGE story, and there would have been plenty of developers who would have jumped at the chance to leak such an arrangement, yet no dev ever has. They're full of very good business reasons they didn't develop for BB10, though.

That's the thing about conspiracy theories - they're usually put forth by people who know just enough to convince themselves that its possible, but rarely grasp the whole picture (or are in denial about what the big picture tells them).

In this case, developers primarily and mostly develop to make money. It takes roughly the same effort to develop a given app for any platform, but the return on investment is VERY different.

Google - Android has 82% of the worldwide market. That's more than 1.8B active Android devices, and more than 1B new ones sold every year.

Apple - 2nd Place with 15% of the market, but the majority of those users are middle and upper-class with plenty of money to burn - with almost no lower-middle or lower-class users. It's a premium market that generates a lot of money.

WinPhone - 3rd Place with 2.8% global marketshare - already at 3rd Place, we've dropped off to virtual irrelevancy. To make matters worse, most users are entry-level phone buyers who aren't nearly as likely to spend money, and few are in the US (though Europe has decent relative penetration).

BB10 - 4th Place with 0.1% global marketshare and declining sales. Even back when they were at 3% and vying for 3rd Place, they could easily be dismissed, but now? Nearly zero mindshare, and who could blame them? Tizen, FireFox, and Sailfish could potentially outsell BB10 in the next couple of quarters.

Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with Occam's Razor, which, paraphrased, says "the simplest explanation is usually the correct one."

[anon(9353145)]

Note that the press was FULL of stories, for YEARS, starting in 2009, explaining why BB should adopt Android - and it was all about the ecosystem. It was no secret, even back then, that developers would only want to support a few (at most) ecosystems, and that being in 3rd Place would be really tough, and anything after 3rd Place would make you irrelevant. Many people could see that BB lacked the resources, partners, and attitude to meet the needs of consumers (their focus was always on satisfying the carriers and enterprise). Surely Mike read some of these stories, but he obviously thought BB could get it done - but they were about 4 years too late, with very little time remaining on the clock, and by the time they started trying to attract developers, most developers could see the writing on the wall - that BB had little hope of developing an entire new platform and gaining the userbase to make it relevant. They didn't need Apple or Google to convince them.

That makes a lot of sense. Just like on the desktop, mobile seems to have fallen into the same paradigm of two choices for platforms - Android or iOS (mobile) vs Windows or OSX (desktop). And in the periphery is everyone else struggling for relevance (in terms of sales).

Having said that, I can totally see Apple and Google leveraging their dominance to keep any potential future challengers handcuffed through confidential exclusivity contracts. They may be competitors but better to keep the field narrowed to the devil-you-know over introducing a new upstart that might upset the status quo. So while BlackBerry may not have been specifically targeted, I can see how they were hampered by the actions of both.

It's funny that Microsoft never managed to make any meaningful impact on mobile. They've been in the game since as long as BlackBerry - or longer - with Windows CE but somehow have managed to screw it up continuously... Given their near monopoly position on the desktop, I think that's the bigger failure frankly.

[california governor]

Few word here.
There was Apple before 2007...so if BlackBerry can hold on and revamp, there will always be a market.

Posted Via CA Governor's BlackBerry Passport.

[HedoBum]

Wait. Are you really saying BlackBerry isn't going anywhere because of its lack of apps?
Maybe I skimmed over the article a little quickly, but it seems to me that you totally discounted BB10 as an OS simply because there aren't enough frilly apps to adorn it. I, for one, hate the idea of an Android-based BlackBerry phone. That would be taking away from BlackBerry's individuality as a smart device.
As I've always said...my BlackBerry doesn't need apps to be awesome...it came awesome right out of the box. BB10 doesn't need to bow down to Android...it excels beyond Android.

[cgk]

but it seems to me that you totally discounted BB10 as an OS simply because there aren't enough frilly apps to adorn it.

By you I think you mean "Consumers, developers, enterprises"

[Tre Lawrence]

Wait. Are you really saying BlackBerry isn't going anywhere because of its lack of apps?
Maybe I skimmed over the article a little quickly, but it seems to me that you totally discounted BB10 as an OS simply because there aren't enough frilly apps to adorn it. I, for one, hate the idea of an Android-based BlackBerry phone. That would be taking away from BlackBerry's individuality as a smart device.
As I've always said...my BlackBerry doesn't need apps to be awesome...it came awesome right out of the box. BB10 doesn't need to bow down to Android...it excels beyond Android.

I'm sure the shareholders would prefer actual success to out-of-the-box excellence.

[GadgetTravel]

Wait. Are you really saying BlackBerry isn't going anywhere because of its lack of apps?
Maybe I skimmed over the article a little quickly, but it seems to me that you totally discounted BB10 as an OS simply because there aren't enough frilly apps to adorn it. I, for one, hate the idea of an Android-based BlackBerry phone. That would be taking away from BlackBerry's individuality as a smart device.
As I've always said...my BlackBerry doesn't need apps to be awesome...it came awesome right out of the box. BB10 doesn't need to bow down to Android...it excels beyond Android.

Exactly. It is nice that it works for you and some others. However, for many of us who demand a lot from our smartphones it isn't really a competitive device when compared to iOS or Android due to the lack of apps for business use.

[Troy Tiscareno]

Wait. Are you really saying BlackBerry isn't going anywhere because of its lack of apps?
Maybe I skimmed over the article a little quickly, but it seems to me that you totally discounted BB10 as an OS simply because there aren't enough frilly apps to adorn it.

BB10 is a fine OS - no one is disputing that. That's never been the issue.

The issue has been that BB10 has done nothing but lose money - many billions of dollars of money, and continues to do so - so much that BB's market value is essentially zero (it's valued at the price of its cash and assets, nothing more). BB10 has 0.1% marketshare and shrinking.

Yes, there is a tiny fraction of the market (around 0.1%, apparently) who doesn't care about apps as long as the OS is great, and you're among them, but that's no where near enough to sustain a handset business. And though you would continue to buy BB10, 99.9% of the market won't consider buying BB10 because it lacks an ecosystem - that means: apps, services, companion devices (tablets, wearables), and accessories. For the market (aside from the 0.1%), the decision to buy isn't based on the OS, but on the ecosystem. Ecosystems are, and have been, the only battleground that matters, and without one, BB10 has no chance of success.

Chen, the board, and investors don't care what BB sells as long as it's making a profit, and BB10 has only ever made losses. You didn't think that they'd continue to see BB bleed because of BB10, did you?

[GadgetTravel]

That makes a lot of sense. Just like on the desktop, mobile seems to have fallen into the same paradigm of two choices for platforms - Android or iOS (mobile) vs Windows or OSX (desktop). And in the periphery is everyone else struggling for relevance (in terms of sales).

Having said that, I can totally see Apple and Google leveraging their dominance to keep any potential future challengers handcuffed through confidential exclusivity contracts. They may be competitors but better to keep the field narrowed to the devil-you-know over introducing a new upstart that might upset the status quo. So while BlackBerry may not have been specifically targeted, I can see how they were hampered by the actions of both.

It's funny that Microsoft never managed to make any meaningful impact on mobile. They've been in the game since as long as BlackBerry - or longer - with Windows CE but somehow have managed to screw it up continuously... Given their near monopoly position on the desktop, I think that's the bigger failure frankly.

Why would Apple and Google even bother? BB was 4 or 5 years late with an inadequate response competing against companies 100 times their size. When BB made mistakes like that they don't need any help to fail.

[abass]

BB10 is a fine OS - no one is disputing that. That's never been the issue.

The issue has been that BB10 has done nothing but lose money - many billions of dollars of money, and continues to do so - so much that BB's market value is essentially zero (it's valued at the price of its cash and assets, nothing more). BB10 has 0.1% marketshare and shrinking.

Yes, there is a tiny fraction of the market (around 0.1%, apparently) who doesn't care about apps as long as the OS is great, and you're among them, but that's no where near enough to sustain a handset business. And though you would continue to buy BB10, 99.9% of the market won't consider buying BB10 because it lacks an ecosystem - that means: apps, services, companion devices (tablets, wearables), and accessories. For the market (aside from the 0.1%), the decision to buy isn't based on the OS, but on the ecosystem. Ecosystems are, and have been, the only battleground that matters, and without one, BB10 has no chance of success.

Chen, the board, and investors don't care what BB sells as long as it's making a profit, and BB10 has only ever made losses. You didn't think that they'd continue to see BB bleed because of BB10, did you?

This. Exactly this.

I mean it's funny.. It seems like people are believing that no one can possibly be accepting of this change, because if they are, it means they HATE BB10, BlackBerry's roots, etc. Etc. Etc.

No! Everyone here LOVES BB10. That's why we are in this community. The market has spoken though and BB10 at this point in time to the scale we would like it to be as, isn't feasible for BlackBerry. They have to survive, and to do so means they can't keep bleeding money. Noone here is extremely happy that BB10 is getting pushed to the back burner, but we hav to be realistic. I love BlackBerry because of the products and services they create. They created BB10 and I love them for it. I have faith in their abilities and believe that they will be able to do something great with Android. Because I trust them as a company I don't just hold onto one service by them and give up if they have to move on. Being a BlackBerry fan isn't about giving up when the times look dark, they have always had to get through the struggle and they will.

Posted via CB10