1. bh7171's Avatar
    So the past few days, as most on these forums already know, have been devoted to the clam shell folding Razr Motorola/Lenovo recently introduced.

    No doubt it's a cool modern take on the iconic Razr but 1500 US dollars? Mid range SOC, basic no frills Android and different form factor of a slab. I'll pass and being Verizon only (always a mistake for these darn OEM's getting sucked into "exclusives") means a no go.

    However.... All the pundits pining for nostalgia (Mr. Mobile, Marques, etc) confirm, to me, that an iconic Blackberry PKB form factor ALSO has a place. My biggest, and honestly ONLY gripe with my BE Blackberry KeyOne, is the lack of software support. Blackberry (Mobile and Ltd. if your listening) keep releasing security updates and OS versions.

    Samsung, I read last night, has decided to give the S8 and Note 8 One UI 2.0 and Android 10. That's 3 OS updates from the Nougat it, like the SE KeyOne, released with. This kind of support is what users are now and have always been looking for when purchasing a device.

    The Key devices are the answer PKB users want and need now support them and continue to find any and all channels to sell them usable on all carriers here in US. The Key3 should be an ultimate refinement to the Key line with no shortcuts and guaranteed support in writing.

    I know some will lament the form factor of a PKB and say it has no place but those will be users that don't prefer or use one on a daily basis. Apple just admitted (after a few years of saying otherwise) the iPad is not the answer for those that truly need a PC and legit keyboard and OS by freshening their MacBook line. Blackberry admit and note that a PKB is a must for some in the smartphone place!
    bb9900user2018 likes this.
    11-18-19 10:52 AM
  2. phuoc's Avatar
    Miss my style.
    BergerKing and Jake2826 like this.
    11-18-19 11:33 AM
  3. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Blackberry admit and note that a PKB is a must for some in the smartphone place!
    Sadly the sales evidence of the last decade doesn't support your point of view... Most OEM today once made those retro phones, and they have watched BlackBerry struggle.

    Best hope is someone like Nokia comes out and uses a PKB to get some publicity... not really concerned with actual sales numbers but more as a gimmick (like their banana phone... who bought that?).
    John Albert, melhiore and ck2nb like this.
    11-18-19 12:10 PM
  4. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    The biggest issue with all these retro forms is they’re not capable of being high volume devices. When the devices have to be midtier specs, with carrier exclusives at higher Prices than similar VKB devices, it speaks volumes.

    The OEM isn’t making the choice. The retail partners are making the demands.
    11-18-19 12:33 PM
  5. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Razr is a 1500 US dollars phone that highlights a folding screen. Folding screens are the new buzz word, as 5G sure hasn't done much.

    But it is a proof of concept public relations gimmick. I doubt Moto is expecting to sell 10's of millions of Razrs, anymore than Samsung expects their Fold to be a high volume product.

    But the bottom line is the PKB phones have been here all along.... maybe once they have been gone for a number of years, someone will think it's retro to bring one back.
    11-18-19 12:44 PM
  6. PantherBlitz's Avatar
    No doubt it's a cool modern take on the iconic Razr but 1500 US dollars? Mid range SOC, basic no frills Android and different form factor of a slab.
    If you don't like it at that price then don't buy it. If enough agree with you, either Moto will lower the price or halt production if there is no way to earn a profit at a lowered price.
    11-18-19 01:08 PM
  7. bh7171's Avatar
    If you don't like it at that price then don't buy it. If enough agree with you, either Moto will lower the price or halt production if there is no way to earn a profit at a lowered price.
    A couple of things. 1 no PKB so not interested. 2 folding screens are new and gimmicky. If I ever did want one it would not be any of the first gen. 3 and lastly it's a Verizon exclusive and I am a happy T-Mobile customer so that's it's 3rd strike for me as a consumer. I am aware there will be takers for this device. Of all the folding options I believe I prefer it's for factor.

    The revival of this Razr and the Samsung and Huawei offerings are proof OEM's are aware most are pretty bored with their slabs. It's not just the one OEM building a PKB that is seeing sales declines. See Samsung's and Apple's last quarter(s).

    If you were to remove the BOGO's and free on trade in offerings or generous trade in values on 2 year old devices here in the US sales would be abysmal. Nobody is really paying 700-1000+ for new devices. How do the OEM's of the folding options think the higher prices will move? (I bet within 60 days one will see deals)

    Poor early adopting Pixel 4 owners could have waited but a month and seen 200 or more discounted off release price.

    I wonder how many OS versions this Motorola will receive? Will it receive 3 additional? (As Samsung is doing for S8 owners?)
    11-18-19 02:17 PM
  8. joeldf's Avatar
    Samsung, I read last night, has decided to give the S8 and Note 8 One UI 2.0 and Android 10. That's 3 OS updates from the Nougat it, like the SE KeyOne, released with. This kind of support is what users are now and have always been looking for when purchasing a device.
    Might want to double-check that.

    Pretty sure It's the Note 9 that Samsung is opening up to the One UI 2 beta this week, and the S9 next week. Not the 8 series.

    The 9 series was always slated to get Android 10, but is only now getting the beta.
    Tsepz_GP likes this.
    11-18-19 02:39 PM
  9. bh7171's Avatar
    Might want to double-check that.

    Pretty sure It's the Note 9 that Samsung is opening up to the One UI 2 beta this week, and the S9 next week. Not the 8 series.

    The 9 series was always slated to get Android 10, but is only now getting the beta.
    https://mspoweruser.com/android-10-f...ung-galaxy-s8/
    11-18-19 02:41 PM
  10. joeldf's Avatar
    Yeah, I saw that. One comment from one support agent is not an official statement from Samsung.

    Now, maybe it is coming, and Samsung just hasn't said so yet, but that is not official confirmation by a long shot.
    11-18-19 02:59 PM
  11. bh7171's Avatar
    Yeah, I saw that. One comment from one support agent is not an official statement from Samsung.

    Now, maybe it is coming, and Samsung just hasn't said so yet, but that is not official confirmation by a long shot.
    The Tab S4 was released last year with the SOC 835. It's going to get 10 so seems logical the other devices with 835 will as well since development will have already been performed.
    11-18-19 03:06 PM
  12. joshualebowitz's Avatar
    So the past few days, as most on these forums already know, have been devoted to the clam shell folding Razr Motorola/Lenovo recently introduced.

    No doubt it's a cool modern take on the iconic Razr but 1500 US dollars? Mid range SOC, basic no frills Android and different form factor of a slab. I'll pass and being Verizon only (always a mistake for these darn OEM's getting sucked into "exclusives") means a no go.

    However.... All the pundits pining for nostalgia (Mr. Mobile, Marques, etc) confirm, to me, that an iconic Blackberry PKB form factor ALSO has a place. My biggest, and honestly ONLY gripe with my BE Blackberry KeyOne, is the lack of software support. Blackberry (Mobile and Ltd. if your listening) keep releasing security updates and OS versions.

    Samsung, I read last night, has decided to give the S8 and Note 8 One UI 2.0 and Android 10. That's 3 OS updates from the Nougat it, like the SE KeyOne, released with. This kind of support is what users are now and have always been looking for when purchasing a device.

    The Key devices are the answer PKB users want and need now support them and continue to find any and all channels to sell them usable on all carriers here in US. The Key3 should be an ultimate refinement to the Key line with no shortcuts and guaranteed support in writing.

    I know some will lament the form factor of a PKB and say it has no place but those will be users that don't prefer or use one on a daily basis. Apple just admitted (after a few years of saying otherwise) the iPad is not the answer for those that truly need a PC and legit keyboard and OS by freshening their MacBook line. Blackberry admit and note that a PKB is a must for some in the smartphone place!
    There is definitely a large market for BlackBerry smartphones with physical keyboards, but BlackBerry Mobile never seemed to have a marketing budget, so they failed. They made an amazing ad, the 'What is that?" commercial, but it was never featured anywhere.
    johnb_xp likes this.
    11-18-19 03:34 PM
  13. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    The Tab S4 was released last year with the SOC 835. It's going to get 10 so seems logical the other devices with 835 will as well since development will have already been performed.
    Well if we have to start using logic....
    11-18-19 03:39 PM
  14. the_boon's Avatar
    There is definitely a large market for BlackBerry smartphones with physical keyboards, but BlackBerry Mobile never seemed to have a marketing budget, so they failed.
    The only way we'd know for sure that this is true is if a big OEM gives a shot at a PKB with decent US carrier support and distribution/marketing/warranty support.

    Basically, a Galaxy KEY.

    Until that's been tried, we just don't know how big "the PKB market" really is
    TgeekB, Smokeaire and john_v like this.
    11-18-19 04:25 PM
  15. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    There is definitely a large market for BlackBerry smartphones with physical keyboards, but BlackBerry Mobile never seemed to have a marketing budget, so they failed. They made an amazing ad, the 'What is that?" commercial, but it was never featured anywhere.
    How do you know that "definitely" there is a large market for a BlackBerry smartphone? Hasn't been any evidence of that in almost a decade.

    BlackBerry Mobile didn't sign up to fix the brand, they signed up to exploit existing customers... most notable enterprise customers that they somehow taught would come if the just built it. That's what Chinese do with dying Western Brands.... exploit their names and customer base.

    I haven't seen too many ads for Moto, LG, ZTE or BLU phones either.... that's because it's pretty expensive.
    Crusader03 likes this.
    11-18-19 04:26 PM
  16. pgg101's Avatar
    No sane person will drop $1500 USD for a SD710 in 2020.
    eshropshire and DINGSTER1 like this.
    11-18-19 04:27 PM
  17. the_boon's Avatar
    No sane person will drop $1500 USD for a SD710 in 2020.
    The highlight of the device is the form factor, not the chipset.

    Spec heads won't be satisfied by anything other than the latest OnePlus phone anyways.

    In reality, an SD710 is more than good enough for years to come.

    There are still people today using Galaxy S4, S5, Note 4, etc...
    jevinzac and nevilleadaniels like this.
    11-18-19 04:30 PM
  18. pgg101's Avatar
    The highlight of the device is the form factor, not the chipset.

    Spec heads won't be satisfied by anything other than the latest OnePlus phone anyways.

    In reality, an SD710 is more than good enough for years to come.

    There are still people today using Galaxy S4, S5, Note 4, etc...
    Ok. No sane person is going to drop $1500 USD for nostalgic reasons.
    11-18-19 04:32 PM
  19. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    There is definitely a large market for BlackBerry smartphones with physical keyboards, but BlackBerry Mobile never seemed to have a marketing budget, so they failed. They made an amazing ad, the 'What is that?" commercial, but it was never featured anywhere.
    Large market? If so, OEMs would be already making PKBs again.
    TgeekB and Laura Knotek like this.
    11-18-19 04:57 PM
  20. TgeekB's Avatar
    Large market? If so, OEMs would be already making PKBs again.
    Exactly.
    How long will it take until people give up this ridiculous notion that there is a huge market just waiting for a PKB phone “if only someone would advertise them well”.
    It just doesn’t exist and history proves that.
    John Albert likes this.
    11-18-19 05:22 PM
  21. joshualebowitz's Avatar
    Exactly.
    How long will it take until people give up this red ICU Louis notion that there is a huge market just waiting for a PKB phone “if only someone would advertise them well”.
    It just doesn’t exist and history proves that.
    Disagree. Was there a market for touch screen phones before 2007? The large demand is there, once people see that the option even exists.
    elfabio80 likes this.
    11-18-19 05:25 PM
  22. TgeekB's Avatar
    Disagree. Was there a market for touch screen phones before 2007? The large demand is there, once people see that the option even exists.
    You have nothing to back your claim. Nothing.
    Everyone (including Blackberry) has failed.
    John Albert likes this.
    11-18-19 05:26 PM
  23. joshualebowitz's Avatar
    You have nothing to back your claim. Nothing.
    Everyone (including Blackberry) has failed.
    Have you been to New York City lately? Can say that my team uses BlackBerry devices to coordinate quite a few large projects around the city. Once people see our devices, they seek them out. Most recently, on Thursday night, at soundcheck for an event, the head of the organization showed us the BlackBerry KEY2 that he purchased based on seeing us use them a month prior. The CEO of a large media company in Times Square has turned his board back to BlackBerry. One of New York's largest real estate development companies just shifted back to BlackBerry Classics. The demand is there. The marketing isn't.
    Last edited by joshualebowitz; 11-18-19 at 06:35 PM. Reason: Typo
    bb9900user2018 likes this.
    11-18-19 05:45 PM
  24. TgeekB's Avatar
    Have you been to New York City lately? Can say that my team uses BlackBerry devices to coordinate quite a few large projects around the city. Once people see our devices, they seek them out. Most recently, on Thursday night, at soundcheck for an event, the head of the organization showed us the BlackBerry KEY2 that he purchased based on seeing us use them a month prior. The CEO of a large media company in Times Square has turned his board back to BlackBerry. One of New York's largest real estate development companies jus shifted back to BlackBerry Classics. The demand is there. The marketing isn't.
    “Once people see our devices they seek them out”. I wish I had a nickel for every time I heard this. So how many thousands of devices were sold from those seeking them out?
    I’m a PKB fan too. I wish they were as popular as 10 years ago. They’re not. No company is going to waste precious advertising dollars on something that has not sold in years. Your individual experience with a few people doesn’t change that.
    11-18-19 05:50 PM
  25. Smokeaire's Avatar
    “Once people see our devices they seek them out”. I wish I had a nickel for every time I heard this. So how many thousands of devices were sold from those seeking them out?
    I’m a PKB fan too. I wish they were as popular as 10 years ago. They’re not. No company is going to waste precious advertising dollars on something that has not sold in years. Your individual experience with a few people doesn’t change that.
    In the several years that I've had my Key phones no one has shown any interest. None. Nada. Zip.
    TgeekB, pgg101, Tsepz_GP and 2 others like this.
    11-18-19 06:04 PM
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