02-14-12 09:16 AM
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tools
  1. fernandez21's Avatar
    Yes the DO, always have on all mobile phone with games, usually 2,4,5,6,8 and space bar.

    Edit- and depending on what application you're in the buttons turn into shortcuts.
    Exactly, you have to adapt the game to the buttons that aare there. So instead of have an actual directional pad with an up, down, left, right, you have to make due with using the 2,4,5,6,8 buttons instead. Plus with it virtual keyboard those shortcuts actually get labled and are eisier to figure out. Not saying one is better than the other (I find I type faster on a virtual keyboard, but enjoy typing on a physical keyboard more).
    02-11-12 06:42 AM
  2. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Exactly, you have to adapt the game to the buttons that aare there. So instead of have an actual directional pad with an up, down, left, right, you have to make due with using the 2,4,5,6,8 buttons instead. Plus with it virtual keyboard those shortcuts actually get labled and are eisier to figure out. Not saying one is better than the other (I find I type faster on a virtual keyboard, but enjoy typing on a physical keyboard more).
    You're forgetting about the trackpad and previous trackball.

    I play braincube all the time, I had it on my 9700 and now on my 9900, I don't know how I could play it on touch screen only.

    With a trackpad it makes perfect sense.

    Edit- my point is buttons don't have fixed functions as stated by S Jobs in that video.
    02-11-12 07:10 AM
  3. JAGWIRE's Avatar
    I have been using my 9550 for a few years now and cant wait to get back to my 9000 this summer . There is definitely a soft spot in all typers for a physical keyboard.the cell world is being more smart now and people are also texting a lot more as the years roll on so ya i don't think the physical keyboard is going anywhere.
    02-11-12 07:46 AM
  4. 13david77's Avatar
    I think the physical keyboard is only being sacrificed to preserve screen size. I would imagine that most people prefer to type on a physical keypad but also prefer a large screen. Given the popularity of games and multi-media/video on devices, a larger touchscreen is more beneficial than a physical keyboard. Likewise, the bulkiness of sliders makes them less appealing then an all touch, especially since a virtual keypad will work just fine. So, yes, physical keyboards are getting less popular but not because they are defunct.
    This makes the most sense to me. Although, I don't feel they're a dying breed, but may go more towards a niche market of people. What it may boil down to is, do you want a multi-media/entertainment/gaming phone that needs a lot of screen realestate, or do you use your phone as a communication device/resource tool where having a physical keyboard makes more sense, and losing some of that screen realestate isn't going be a big deal? The way I see it, there will always be a market for keyboard phones, but given the age we live in, I see multi-media phones taking up a large portion of the market. I myself, am not that interested in having games and movies etc., just a phone with an OS that looks sharp, makes calls, texts, email, and plays music
    02-11-12 08:01 AM
  5. fernandez21's Avatar
    You're forgetting about the trackpad and previous trackball.

    I play braincube all the time, I had it on my 9700 and now on my 9900, I don't know how I could play it on touch screen only.

    With a trackpad it makes perfect sense.

    Edit- my point is buttons don't have fixed functions as stated by S Jobs in that video.
    He never said fixed functions, he said fixed in plastic, which means you can't change them or move them around. It also means that those controls aren't optimized for every app. Have you tried playing a side scroller with the trackpad? THough yes he was exagerating about how "they just won't work", and I really like the "best of both worlds" affored to me by my 9810.
    02-11-12 09:23 AM
  6. 13echo4's Avatar
    He never said fixed functions, he said fixed in plastic, which means you can't change them or move them around. It also means that those controls aren't optimized for every app. Have you tried playing a side scroller with the trackpad? THough yes he was exagerating about how "they just won't work", and I really like the "best of both worlds" affored to me by my 9810.
    He.did say they was fixed in plastic. What we're challenging is steve said the buttons couldn't be adapted in apps now or in the future. Which is false.
    I understand the exageration he done. If you read a lot around here what steve says goes to heart totally bypassing the head. Some people can't decypher exageration over fact. They simple just don't know.
    02-11-12 09:45 AM
  7. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    He never said fixed functions, he said fixed in plastic, which means you can't change them or move them around. It also means that those controls aren't optimized for every app. Have you tried playing a side scroller with the trackpad? THough yes he was exagerating about how "they just won't work", and I really like the "best of both worlds" affored to me by my 9810.
    You mean like brickbreaker? Lol

    Side scroller as opposed to what though? If you mean leaning your phone left or right all blackberrys have that too. I must confess, I found the trackball a lot better at scrolling left and right in a game, no substitute for the feel.

    Edit- buttons are fixed but there's so many of them to choose from in a qwerty you can easily asign different functions to any part of the space the ocupy.

    Touch screen really just frees the space occupied by the unused buttons if that makes sense.
    Last edited by belfastdispatcher; 02-11-12 at 09:53 AM.
    02-11-12 09:49 AM
  8. reeneebob's Avatar
    A side scroller is like Super Mario. The world moves right to left and you can't go back. Pretty much every retro game since, well, Super Mario.

    And they suck to play using a trackball or pad.


    Sent from my brain using Tapatalk
    02-11-12 09:54 AM
  9. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    A side scroller is like Super Mario. The world moves right to left and you can't go back. Pretty much every retro game since, well, Super Mario.

    And they suck to play using a trackball or pad.


    Sent from my brain using Tapatalk
    The only one I ever used is the helicopter gave and you only use one button, spacebar, you either press it or releas it, how is it played on a touchscreen?
    02-11-12 10:08 AM
  10. Blackberry_boffin's Avatar
    Asking this kind of question on crackberry is not a great idea.
    Look at trends;
    - RIM has outed an all touch curve for the first time,
    - RIM has outed an all touch torch,
    - The first BB10 will be all touch,
    - RIM's market share is not growing as fast as everybody else and they are traditionally strong on keyboards,
    - Screen size has become very important on smartphones and it doesn't go well with keyboards.
    So there you are , you decide.
    02-11-12 10:13 AM
  11. sleepngbear's Avatar
    Ain't no perfect solution for everybody. If full touch-screens were all that for everybody, RIM would already be long dead and gone, and we know from the experts here that that isn't going to happen for another six months or so.
    02-11-12 10:14 AM
  12. reeneebob's Avatar
    The only one I ever used is the helicopter gave and you only use one button, spacebar, you either press it or releas it, how is it played on a touchscreen?
    No idea as I've never heard of the helicopter game. I imagine it'd be an onscreen dpad. Can you be more specific on its title?


    Sent from my brain using Tapatalk
    02-11-12 10:45 AM
  13. sleepngbear's Avatar
    No idea as I've never heard of the helicopter game. I imagine it'd be an onscreen dpad. Can you be more specific on its title?


    Sent from my brain using Tapatalk
    Helicopter. On a touch screen, you just touch/hold any part of the screen instead of holding the space bar. Very silly game.
    02-11-12 11:00 AM
  14. Alex_Hong's Avatar
    On the topic of physical keyboards, i've been thinking about the other buttons too on a blackberry. Sure, what Steve Jobs said in the video about physical keys made sense, but there are always 2 sides to a story.

    For example, the BlackBerry menu key.

    In a full touch screen device, you can pretty much implement most of the option available in that menu in a menu bar anywhere in that app's screen. Giving you more screen real estate by removing the physical keys, but there are slight inconvenience with that approach as well. For example, the menu bar can be in a different location for different apps. some top, some bottom, some using long presses. But I like how the BB menu key provide a unified location for additional options. Whatever app you are in, you know to look for more options or settings, you press the BB menu key.

    Secondly, it is able to give app developer a chance to really integrate their apps into the whole OS experience as well. Like how you can go into the options when viewing photos to post it to facebook, twitter, BBM and what not. Okay, you may say those apps are built by RIM themselves. Other examples would be screen printing apps, whatsapp and plenty of other third party apps as well. You can get things done even without opening the app at all. I don't want to open the twitter or facebook app just to upload a quick picture. It's just not necessary. These are what i call "super apps". A deeply integrate app that works seamlessly with the OS.

    And, guess what? iOS 5.0 just received twitter integration. Rumours is that iOS 5.1 will finally bring facebook in as well.

    Also to bring in other buttons into discussions, are the call, exit and back keys.

    Having a dedicated call key can be useful. Imagine on iOS, when you're in an app and you remember you have to do a quick call. But that means you have press the home button, then the call menu, then select a contact. With a call key, i can just press it in whatever app I am in and just call someone. Maybe this is why people call BlackBerry communication devices. Tools, not toys.

    Then the back key. With full touch devices, the back button is not always where you expect it to be as well. It's all up to the developers. With the back key, you always know where to hit to go back a screen. Of course this is only relevant to iOS devices as well.

    End call/exit button doesn't really need much explanation. It's just useful to exit out of an app temporarily keeping the app still open so you can do other stuffs before going back to it.

    To conclude, i think there are good and bad points to physical button which are "fixed", and virtual keys with the option of more customisation. Some may like the button which does the same thing to be in the same place always, while some prefer more screen real estate and the ability to customise. It's back to the point of all these being preferences. But i do hope that physical keyboard devices will still continue to exist for many years to come. I like choices. I don't want to be forced onto a particular type of device (eg. full touch screens), just because there are no other options.

    (you may realise i compare a lot to iOS devices. that is mainly due to it being a device i've used for a very long period of time, and partly because its the most popular full touch screen device. I do not, in anyway, intend this post to diss other types of devices. I am simply providing an alternate viewpoint, my (a little unnecessarily long) viewpoint.)
    02-11-12 11:59 AM
  15. fernandez21's Avatar
    On the topic of physical keyboards, i've been thinking about the other buttons too on a blackberry. Sure, what Steve Jobs said in the video about physical keys made sense, but there are always 2 sides to a story.

    For example, the BlackBerry menu key.

    In a full touch screen device, you can pretty much implement most of the option available in that menu in a menu bar anywhere in that app's screen. Giving you more screen real estate by removing the physical keys, but there are slight inconvenience with that approach as well. For example, the menu bar can be in a different location for different apps. some top, some bottom, some using long presses. But I like how the BB menu key provide a unified location for additional options. Whatever app you are in, you know to look for more options or settings, you press the BB menu key.

    Secondly, it is able to give app developer a chance to really integrate their apps into the whole OS experience as well. Like how you can go into the options when viewing photos to post it to facebook, twitter, BBM and what not. Okay, you may say those apps are built by RIM themselves. Other examples would be screen printing apps, whatsapp and plenty of other third party apps as well. You can get things done even without opening the app at all. I don't want to open the twitter or facebook app just to upload a quick picture. It's just not necessary. These are what i call "super apps". A deeply integrate app that works seamlessly with the OS.

    And, guess what? iOS 5.0 just received twitter integration. Rumours is that iOS 5.1 will finally bring facebook in as well.

    Also to bring in other buttons into discussions, are the call, exit and back keys.

    Having a dedicated call key can be useful. Imagine on iOS, when you're in an app and you remember you have to do a quick call. But that means you have press the home button, then the call menu, then select a contact. With a call key, i can just press it in whatever app I am in and just call someone. Maybe this is why people call BlackBerry communication devices. Tools, not toys.

    Then the back key. With full touch devices, the back button is not always where you expect it to be as well. It's all up to the developers. With the back key, you always know where to hit to go back a screen. Of course this is only relevant to iOS devices as well.

    End call/exit button doesn't really need much explanation. It's just useful to exit out of an app temporarily keeping the app still open so you can do other stuffs before going back to it.

    To conclude, i think there are good and bad points to physical button which are "fixed", and virtual keys with the option of more customisation. Some may like the button which does the same thing to be in the same place always, while some prefer more screen real estate and the ability to customise. It's back to the point of all these being preferences. But i do hope that physical keyboard devices will still continue to exist for many years to come. I like choices. I don't want to be forced onto a particular type of device (eg. full touch screens), just because there are no other options.

    (you may realise i compare a lot to iOS devices. that is mainly due to it being a device i've used for a very long period of time, and partly because its the most popular full touch screen device. I do not, in anyway, intend this post to diss other types of devices. I am simply providing an alternate viewpoint, my (a little unnecessarily long) viewpoint.)
    I completely agree with you. I like the touchscreen interface for it flexibility. I like that every app can have its own customized interface. Where it lacks is there are some functions you want where ever you yar and not have to navigate there, such as the phone app, or contacts, I cam just start typing and the contact comes up.I like on how the PlayBook, a swipe down from the top will bring up a contextual menu (much like hitting the BB button on a blackberry) and if they can nail a back gesture, much like how in webos you do a half swipe, I think they can get away with just a talk and end button on the next gen blackberries.
    Alex_Hong likes this.
    02-11-12 12:56 PM
  16. qbnkelt's Avatar
    I hope for the sake of Blackberry that they eliminate all those antiquated keyboard phones. Touchscreen is the now.
    Too bad brand new Android devices like the Droid 4 will be sporting keyboards. Since they're so antiquated and all....

    Motorola Droid 4 (Verizon Wireless) Review & Rating | PCMag.com


    Oh and the absolutely dinosaur that is the Droid Pro

    DROID Pro by MOTOROLA - Business Cell Phone - Experience - Motorola Mobility, Inc. USA



    And oh my goodness look at these devices that Methuselah himself probably used!!!

    Best Windows Phone 7.5 Devices with QWERTY Keypad

    Yah....not everyone adores typing on a slab of glass...which is why every significant manufacturer out there is releasing devices with truly sad imitations of Blackberry's iconic keyboard.
    Last edited by Qbnkelt; 02-11-12 at 04:11 PM.
    sleepngbear likes this.
    02-11-12 01:20 PM
  17. reeneebob's Avatar
    Helicopter. On a touch screen, you just touch/hold any part of the screen instead of holding the space bar. Very silly game.
    Ah that's what I thought.


    Sent from my brain using Tapatalk
    02-11-12 05:49 PM
  18. sleepngbear's Avatar
    Too bad brand new Android devices like the Droid 4 will be sporting keyboards. Since they're so antiquated and all....

    Motorola Droid 4 (Verizon Wireless) Review & Rating | PCMag.com


    Oh and the absolutely dinosaur that is the Droid Pro

    DROID Pro by MOTOROLA - Business Cell Phone - Experience - Motorola Mobility, Inc. USA



    And oh my goodness look at these devices that Methuselah himself probably used!!!

    Best Windows Phone 7.5 Devices with QWERTY Keypad

    Yah....not everyone adores typing on a slab of glass...which is why every significant manufacturer out there is releasing devices with truly sad imitations of Blackberry's iconic keyboard.
    Nice speech Qubie, and of course spot-on as usual. But if this guy hasn't gotten off his insipid antiquated-keyboard kick by now, he never will. I still cannot fathom why anyone who has such a vendetta against a brand's bread and butter would be spreading his animus on a forum dedicated to that brand; can you? (Hint: Ignore can be your friend.)

    BTW, if I ever do get tired of BB, a couple of those primitive landscape sliders on the dreambloggers page look sweeeeeet ... as long as they haven't stopped making them by then.
    02-11-12 07:20 PM
  19. 13echo4's Avatar
    Too bad brand new Android devices like the Droid 4 will be sporting keyboards. Since they're so antiquated and all....

    Motorola Droid 4 (Verizon Wireless) Review & Rating | PCMag.com


    Oh and the absolutely dinosaur that is the Droid Pro

    DROID Pro by MOTOROLA - Business Cell Phone - Experience - Motorola Mobility, Inc. USA



    And oh my goodness look at these devices that Methuselah himself probably used!!!

    Best Windows Phone 7.5 Devices with QWERTY Keypad

    Yah....not everyone adores typing on a slab of glass...which is why every significant manufacturer out there is releasing devices with truly sad imitations of Blackberry's iconic keyboard.
    Very nicely said.
    02-11-12 09:07 PM
  20. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    I have honestly never considered those physical keyboard Android devices to be anything but pathetic, half-hearted efforts.

    I would go back to a PB device before I use a slider.


    Sent from my NOOKcolor using Tapatalk
    02-11-12 09:28 PM
  21. CairnsRock's Avatar
    Physical keyboards are a manufacturing nightmare because of the hundreds of different countries, languages, currencies, alphabets which have to be catered to.
    A very small example: US English, Canadian English, Canadian French, UK English, French, Spanish, Greek, Cantonese, Mandarin, Japanese...........The list goes on.

    With touchpads, its one product and the language alphabet is downloaded....aka a white or black iPhone = 2 models vs thousands of BB models
    02-11-12 10:03 PM
  22. tmelon's Avatar
    Too bad brand new Android devices like the Droid 4 will be sporting keyboards. Since they're so antiquated and all....
    The Droid 4 is basically the only new upper class Android with a keyboard. All the rest of new Androids are pure touchscreen.




    Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk
    02-12-12 12:21 AM
  23. Rootbrian's Avatar
    I would like to, once it arrives at the rogers store (the only one that allows you to use working smartphones), to try it out. Would it be bold 9900 style, or torch 9810 style?


    The Droid 4 is basically the only new upper class Android with a keyboard. All the rest of new Androids are pure touchscreen.


    Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk
    02-12-12 12:26 AM
  24. SRR500's Avatar
    This debate has no end. It will go down in history alongside other unresolved questions. Such as:

    Which came first, chicken or egg

    Ford vs. Chevy vs. [insert auto manufacturer here]

    Paper or plastic

    Less filling. Tastes great

    And the list goes on and on........
    02-12-12 06:23 AM
  25. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Physical keyboards are a manufacturing nightmare because of the hundreds of different countries, languages, currencies, alphabets which have to be catered to.
    A very small example: US English, Canadian English, Canadian French, UK English, French, Spanish, Greek, Cantonese, Mandarin, Japanese...........The list goes on.

    With touchpads, its one product and the language alphabet is downloaded....aka a white or black iPhone = 2 models vs thousands of BB models
    Absolutely incorrect.

    I can type in Spanish and French. All I have to do is type on the letter and use the trackpad to select whichever character I need.

    No problem at all. No more of a nightmare than producing pc/laptop keyboards....actually, easier....less of a hassle for me to type a special Spanish character or a French accent on my BB than on my laptop.

    There are people who simply PREFER keyboards. Regardless of age. Don't throw that one in there.

    I would much rather type a message on my 9930 than my Skyrocket. It's a preference.

    As far as the number of models....it's called choice. As in the ability to choose between a physical keyboard vs a touchscreen. I use both, depending on my mood.....

    Choice is a good thing. You *are* familiar with the concept of choice, no? Being able to decide for yourself what you want and having it be readily available? Such as different device configurations, build, etc? Sort of like Android, BB, etc????

    Sorta going to go get a car....OK, we have one model, and you can have it in either silver or black, and the inside will look identical to the one we sold in 2007, but we will give you a chance to decide the size trunk to keep your stuff....but as far as models, it's one model.....

    Yah.....
    Last edited by Qbnkelt; 02-12-12 at 07:02 AM.
    02-12-12 06:45 AM
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