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02-22-15 09:21 PM
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  1. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    ...then, are you saying if he'd spoken, taking the products, "Netflix", "HTML5", "BB", "Apple", and "Android" out, he would have presented a stronger (albeit crazy-sounding!), more palatable argument?

    If so, then see my original position.

    Obviously, I won't put words in his mouth. And quite frankly, I don't know how many times he's been down that (similar) path. Maybe he's exhausted. Maybe, he's tired of being diplomatic. Perhaps it's time for a new approach.



    Posted via CB10
    I'm a huge fan of his (and java had the opportunity to tell him so directly).

    Still, that was the silliest statement he has ever made IMHO. I blame the PR people who wrote it.
    Last edited by Tre Lawrence; 02-19-15 at 01:09 AM.
    02-17-15 07:32 PM
  2. mornhavon's Avatar
    ...then, are you saying if he'd spoken, taking the products, "Netflix", "HTML5", "BB", "Apple", and "Android" out, he would have presented a stronger (albeit crazy-sounding!), more palatable argument?
    I'm not saying that, not even remotely.

    If it was unclear, my primary issue is that he was trying to force, through LAW, all developers to do something that BlackBerry hasn't even done for their ONLY cross-platform consumer app. He could have lead by example as I described with BBM, and/or he could have provided tools to prove that it's easier than everyone thinks it is. Instead, he tried to convince lawmakers to legally enforce a half-baked dream that, by shear coincidence I'm sure, might turn his company around.

    If his PR staff are mostly behind this, he should have at least understood it before submitting a request for a lawful mandate to the U.S. Congress for a hot-button issue like Net Neutrality.

    Like Tre, I have a lot of respect for John Chen, under most leadership BlackBerry would no longer exist as it's own entity and he deserves full credit. That doesn't give him a free pass to do something this ridiculous though.
    Last edited by mornhavon; 02-17-15 at 08:57 PM.
    jmr1015 and JeepBB like this.
    02-17-15 08:44 PM
  3. BB_Junky's Avatar
    Has BBRY ever approached Netflix themselves to inquire about an app? or even presented the BB10 OS to them so they can see that we do have phones that can infact play movies?
    02-17-15 10:05 PM
  4. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Has BBRY ever approached Netflix themselves to inquire about an app? or even presented the BB10 OS to them so they can see that we do have phones that can infact play movies?
    I believe BBRY made overtures. If I had to guess, Netflix have a price, and it was a bit too much.

    This is based off what I've come to understand about app bounties. I don't have direct proof of the Netflix scenario, but I do know BBRY has paid devs to bring stuff over. I also know some developers didn't like how the upfront system worked from the Playbook.
    BB_Junky likes this.
    02-17-15 10:42 PM
  5. FrankUnderwood's Avatar
    Nobody can hear you. Nobody cares about you. Nothing will come of this.

    Hasn't this been discussed for the last couple of years?

    Posted via CB10 on the President Underwood version of the BlackBerry Classic
    02-17-15 10:51 PM
  6. southlander's Avatar
    The Android version works great. And you can bet any blackberry version would be missing features, leading to disappointment. Now if Netflix could pump out something complete that would be another story.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    02-17-15 11:00 PM
  7. BB_Junky's Avatar
    Nobody can hear you. Nobody cares about you. Nothing will come of this.

    Hasn't this been discussed for the last couple of years?

    Posted via CB10 on the President Underwood version of the BlackBerry Classic
    This kinda what i was getting too, nobody is listening. I've seen these petitions over and over for different apps and nothing seems to come of them. Myself i haven't ever found the need to watch a movie on my phone as i carry an Ipad for such things so is this cry for Netflix one that barely anyone else would purchase if it was eventually made available to BBRY.
    Theres an old theater in my city that when it was announced they were tearing it down to build other structures people cried and whined all over the social media , petitions passed around which they heard. The theater was left to run another year, with in 2 months it was dead again...barely a soul using it again.
    02-17-15 11:32 PM
  8. deercreekmichael's Avatar
    406 petitions. That's kind of sad.
    02-18-15 08:25 AM
  9. StephenZ30's Avatar
    ...doesn't give him a free pass to do something this ridiculous though.
    This has been spirited; thank you.

    My contention remains the same: As "crazy", left field, and politically incorrect as it may appear, I agree with his position and the way he decided to voice it.
    I'm sure he was aware of the controversy it would cause; he IS a brilliant person after all.

    Brave? Stupid? PI? *We* can only voice our common and differing opinions.



    Posted via CB10
    02-18-15 12:13 PM
  10. mornhavon's Avatar
    This has been spirited; thank you.
    My contention remains the same: As "crazy", left field, and politically incorrect as it may appear, I agree with his position and the way he decided to voice it.
    I'm sure he was aware of the controversy it would cause; he IS a brilliant person after all.
    Brave? Stupid? PI? *We* can only voice our common and differing opinions.
    I don't think it reaches the boundary of being "politically incorrect," or "crazy." Silly or ridiculous is probably as far as I'd go in describing his comments. If you take out the "lawful mandate" aspect of it, I'd agree that it's an admirable goal to strive for.

    I agree that John Chen is a highly intelligent individual, but that doesn't make him infallible. If he foresaw this controversy and the black eye that it would give him and BlackBerry, I don't think he would have done it. There was so much downside, and no perceivable upside (unless Congress somehow falls for it and ignores every technical adviser they have, as well as any developer that they consult). I don't think he realized the amount of attention his comments would receive, maybe he was thinking a long-shot at tipping the scales was worth a chance of public ridicule, or maybe he's simply grown frustrated by the gravity of competing ecosystems and truly believes what he wrote.

    I'll try not to repeat myself too much, but it just seems so baffling that such an intelligent person would equate "BBM being recently made available on a total of four platforms in a move to keep it relevant" with "all developers should develop for every platform, please ignore the fact that even our one app doesn't meet the criteria that we're wanting to lawfully force upon all developers". If he'd lead by example I could cut him some slack, but it just came off as a desperate maneuver, blindly swinging in a field.

    I don't think either of us will convince the other, but I have enjoyed the discussion. Thanks for sharing your views.
    JeepBB and Tre Lawrence like this.
    02-18-15 01:54 PM
  11. TGR1's Avatar
    This has been spirited; thank you.

    My contention remains the same: As "crazy", left field, and politically incorrect as it may appear, I agree with his position and the way he decided to voice it.
    I'm sure he was aware of the controversy it would cause; he IS a brilliant person after all.

    Brave? Stupid? PI? *We* can only voice our common and differing opinions.



    Posted via CB10
    You agree with John Chen that legislation compelling all developers to develop for all platforms on a common platform should be enacted?

    That is fundamentally the only point that is in contention with the majority of people here and it seems to be what you are saying you agree with. Is it?

    I would agree it is a nice goal philosophically. I would also say that in reality legislation forcing it is a very bad option because it will actually stifle innovation and progress.

    FWIW I think he is a smart guy but don't know if I would label Chen brilliant. Lazaridis, now he I would call brilliant.
    02-18-15 02:07 PM
  12. jmr1015's Avatar
    ...If John Chen had come forward with solutions instead of sour grapes and perceived efforts to force an app-bailout, his comments would have been received very differently. If he'd stated that an upcoming BBM update for all platforms had been built using a shared HTML5 base with customized UIs for each platform, and that they'd be rolling out versions for Tizen, Firefox OS, Ubuntu & Jolla Sailfish, as well as a web version, THAT would be putting his money where his mouth is...

    ...However, he didn't do any of that. He insulted developers and tried to force them to do things that even his own developers aren't willing or able to do.
    ...I'll try not to repeat myself too much, but it just seems so baffling that such an intelligent person would equate "BBM being recently made available on a total of four platforms in a move to keep it relevant" with "all developers should develop for every platform, please ignore the fact that even our one app doesn't meet the criteria that we're wanting to lawfully force upon all developers". If he'd lead by example I could cut him some slack, but it just came off as a desperate maneuver, blindly swinging in a field...
    Honestly, there are a lot of decent points to discuss regarding this silly idea. Most of which are quite ridiculous to consider... But the above, is far and away the best point in this entire thread... and truly highlights and illustrates why people see the desperation in the idea. No matter if you think "app neutrality" is a good idea or a terrible idea, the way Chen handled bringing it up, considering BlackBerry's current state in the area of cross-platform apps, casts an ugly shadow on the entire thing.

    To anyone paying attention, it does not come off like an idea to make things better for all OSs and the consumer. It literally comes off as a tantrum. Crying and stomping his feet that things aren't fair, when BlackBerry has made no effort to support OSs smaller than BB10. If BlackBerry truly cared about leveling the playing field and making apps accessible to all, regardless of which OS one chooses, then BBM would be available on every medium possible. Not just the few OSs that have significantly larger marketshare than BB10.

    BlackBerry:

    Last edited by jmr1015; 02-18-15 at 04:16 PM.
    JeepBB, TGR1 and mornhavon like this.
    02-18-15 03:52 PM
  13. KermEd's Avatar
    ROKU 3 no longer works with Un-Block Us and Blockless services. Even when you setup your own Static IP's. The latest update firmware messed everything up. Now I'm streaming off my PC.

    Posted by Q5
    My Roku2 is just fine for Unblock Us. Mind you I use dns via router.

    Posted to CB via my Passport | FileArchiveHaven
    02-18-15 10:34 PM
  14. StephenZ30's Avatar
    You agree with...
    See my closing statement/argument above.



    Posted via CB10
    02-18-15 11:22 PM
  15. Oglon3r's Avatar
    See my closing statement/argument above.



    Posted via CB10
    Lol closing argument.
    Man you guys got pretty deep.
    Great points all around and incredible civil discourse.
    Still in find it amazing how deep you had to go before you realized that living and letting someone else live and do what they please is they key for progress.
    I particularly lean towards the collectivist camp. By which I mean we are in this together, so why not support something that could potentially benefit us all? It doesn't matter if it has been tried before, let's try it again and see what happens.
    We don't lose squat, but there's a chance we could achieve what we want.
    Deal with it. Kek

    Supporting the people's struggle worldwide via my STA 100-5, Z30.
    02-20-15 02:17 AM
  16. BB_Junky's Avatar
    Ha there's saying out there about trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
    johnny_bravo72 likes this.
    02-20-15 02:36 AM
  17. Oglon3r's Avatar
    Ha there's saying out there about trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
    Heh there's another one saying keep trying no matter how many times it takes.
    I guess it all a matter of perspective.

    Supporting the people's struggle worldwide via my STA 100-5, Z30.
    BB_Junky likes this.
    02-20-15 03:11 PM
  18. mornhavon's Avatar
    Still I find it amazing how deep you had to go before you realized that living and letting someone else live and do what they please is the key for progress.
    Given the rest of your post, I'm assuming that you think your statement above supports John Chen's statement. Does forcing an unbelievable workload (at least tens, if not hundreds, of millions of hours depending on where the bar would be set) onto those whose time is already in high demand (and whose time isn't cheap), for almost no economic benefit to the companies that would be mandated to carry out those orders, sound like "letting someone else live and do what they please"? To me, it sounds like the opposite.

    If HTML5 provided a superior experience, the argument might actually make a bit of sense. But any developer who values a good experience for its users would still be developing native apps for its key platform(s). This would just add an enormous amount of additional work for developers in order to provide a 2nd- or 3rd-class experience to a tiny fraction of users (many of whom don't value those apps highly anyway, or they'd be using a platform that provides access to those apps), only to result in an inferior experience for those who would actually use the HTML5 app.

    I particularly lean towards the collectivist camp. By which I mean we are in this together, so why not support something that could potentially benefit us all?
    A platform-agnostic world, where developers code-once and deploy-everywhere is a fantastic goal to strive for. Here are some good ways to move that goal along:
    • Code your own app to the meet universal standards to show how it can be done well.
    • Get the developer community behind you, many developers would love to live in such a world.
    • Create tools for developers that use an existing programming language to allow a universal base to be built for apps that enables performance similar to that of native apps.
    • If that's asking too much of existing languages, start collaborating on a new language to fill that gap and get developers excited about it (good ideas will do that!).

    Here's what not to do:
    • Scold companies for not releasing cross-platform apps for smaller platforms, when your company has never released an app for a platform smaller than its own.
    • Pretend that releasing your own cross-platform app(s) (depending on whether you count the BES clients or not) on other platforms was done out of a sense of "fairness" rather than a necessary act of survival due to your own platform failing.
    • Try to legally force EVERYONE to develop apps in a fashion that your only cross-platform app doesn't even adhere to, in a move that's clearly meant to benefit your own company greatly at an enormous expense to everyone except yourself.
    Last edited by mornhavon; 02-20-15 at 05:43 PM.
    JeepBB, jmr1015 and TGR1 like this.
    02-20-15 05:26 PM
  19. deercreekmichael's Avatar
    Only 410 signatures

    Posted via CB10
    02-21-15 10:17 AM
  20. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    Aaaaaand it would appear that Ray Soto has ragequit the forums. Not sure when he became anon3923428, but it happened in the last few days.
    02-21-15 11:40 AM
  21. jmr1015's Avatar
    Aaaaaand it would appear that Ray Soto has ragequit the forums. Not sure when he became anon3923428, but it happened in the last few days.
    Considering his original goal was, what? 10,000,000 signatures? and he got 414 in two weeks... Reality stings.
    02-21-15 11:57 PM
  22. Cynycl's Avatar
    And half of those were from his social media friends and neighbours that don't own a blackberry but just want to support the cause 😨
    02-22-15 04:54 PM
  23. lnichols's Avatar
    Do online petitions ever work anyway? I mean if someone came to me and said I have an online petition with X number of signatures, I'd say you have no real signatures and no proof these people are who they are.

    Posted via CB10
    02-22-15 06:04 PM
  24. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Do online petitions ever work anyway? I mean if someone came to me and said I have an online petition with X number of signatures, I'd say you have no real signatures and no proof these people are who they are.

    Posted via CB10
    HTC customers were able to influence the company to reverse course on locked boatloaders not too long ago.
    02-22-15 09:08 PM
  25. KR2013's Avatar
    And half of those were from his social media friends and neighbours that don't own a blackberry but just want to support the cause 😨
    You are right! The funny thing is half of the remaining half were also the current BB/CB users who felt compelled to support a fellow BlackBerry user even though they had no interest in Netflix!
    02-22-15 09:21 PM
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