01-27-20 08:45 AM
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  1. JoeyCracks's Avatar


    BlackBerry had a partnership with AT&T in 2007 before the release of the first iPhone. Lazaridis & Balsillie felt side swiped when they found out iPhone was able to feature a full web browser on their phone, something AT&T prevented Blackberry from doing out of fear it would crash their network. In response to the success of iPhone, BlackBerry was approached by Verizon to create an "iPhone killer." Lazaridis presented the Bold, equipped with a keyboard and touchscreen, but that idea was shot down by Verizon executives. They wanted a full touchscreen. So Lazaridis offered a prototype, the Storm.
    Mecca EL likes this.
    01-18-20 10:15 AM
  2. Tsepz_GP's Avatar


    BlackBerry had a partnership with AT&T in 2007 before the release of the first iPhone. Lazaridis & Balsillie felt side swiped when they found out iPhone was able to feature a full web browser on their phone, something AT&T prevented Blackberry from doing out of fear it would crash their network. In response to the success of iPhone, BlackBerry was approached by Verizon to create an "iPhone killer." Lazaridis presented the Bold, equipped with a keyboard and touchscreen, but that idea was shot down by Verizon executives. They wanted a full touchscreen. So Lazaridis offered a prototype, the Storm.
    Lol
    01-18-20 02:45 PM
  3. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    As I have said many times before, Mike was way too stuck on what HE wanted and not what users wanted, and that caused him to dismiss outside ideas and to not have a forward thinking R&D division.

    This allowed Apple (followed quickly by Google) to fly right by as Mike stood around arguing that they were wrong, even as they gobbled up market share.
    01-18-20 04:44 PM
  4. bakron1's Avatar
    As I have said many times before, Mike was way too stuck on what HE wanted and not what users wanted, and that caused him to dismiss outside ideas and to not have a forward thinking R&D division.

    This allowed Apple (followed quickly by Google) to fly right by as Mike stood around arguing that they were wrong, even as they gobbled up market share.
    I agree 100% and as a business person myself I have seen several companies who where very successful and lost touch with the folks who where buying their products and where soon on the outside looking in as their competitors put them out of business.
    Laura Knotek and Mardi_Shakti like this.
    01-18-20 04:59 PM
  5. chain13's Avatar
    Storm is a joke, even for now.
    01-19-20 12:04 AM
  6. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar


    BlackBerry had a partnership with AT&T in 2007 before the release of the first iPhone. Lazaridis & Balsillie felt side swiped when they found out iPhone was able to feature a full web browser on their phone, something AT&T prevented Blackberry from doing out of fear it would crash their network. In response to the success of iPhone, BlackBerry was approached by Verizon to create an "iPhone killer." Lazaridis presented the Bold, equipped with a keyboard and touchscreen, but that idea was shot down by Verizon executives. They wanted a full touchscreen. So Lazaridis offered a prototype, the Storm.
    Should be noted that Apple went to Verizon first and got shot down. When Verizon saw what was happening with the iPhone and AT&T then they realized their mistake.

    Also that YouTuber is using shots of the 99** series where he talks about the Bold. Sure it's a Bold, but not the one that existed back then.
    Laura Knotek and vzw8830 like this.
    01-19-20 12:16 AM
  7. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    Storm is a joke, even for now.
    Storm2 was a tank if you got the right one, how different things might have turned out if they'd got that version as the original.
    Laura Knotek and Tsepz_GP like this.
    01-19-20 12:18 AM
  8. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    Storm2 was a tank if you got the right one, how different things might have turned out if they'd got that version as the original.
    Agreed, a friend of mine had the Storm 2 and I kind of liked it.
    01-19-20 03:08 AM
  9. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    Agreed, a friend of mine had the Storm 2 and I kind of liked it.
    Had a friend that one shortly after launch, never had to pull the battery. To be sure, she never used it for anything other than calls, text, and email, nor even changed the wallpaper or sounds. After all the abuse I put mine through I gave it to her sister; it got another few years usage until they both hopped on the iPhone train with the 5s. I find it interesting they grew up using Apple/Mac and they continue to use Macs at home plus professionally, yet they passed on iPhones for 5-ish years with the Storm2.
    Tsepz_GP and Laura Knotek like this.
    01-19-20 05:23 AM
  10. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    Had a friend that one shortly after launch, never had to pull the battery. To be sure, she never used it for anything other than calls, text, and email, nor even changed the wallpaper or sounds. After all the abuse I put mine through I gave it to her sister; it got another few years usage until they both hopped on the iPhone train with the 5s. I find it interesting they grew up using Apple/Mac and they continue to use Macs at home plus professionally, yet they passed on iPhones for 5-ish years with the Storm2.
    Just goes to show, if you build something solid, reliable and just continue to make it better year after year, people will not have any reason to leave it. Never jump due to a big disruption, rather invest in R&D and do a thorough competitor analysis.

    They made such a mess rushing out the first Storm that nobody wanted to even try the Storm 2, which was actually a great product.

    Same thing happened with Nokia, they got into such a rush to get something out that they absolutely ruined their first iterations and missed what made iPhone and Android phones special. I had the Nokia 5800 XpressMusic and loved it but when I used it next to my Dad’s (an ex BB fan) iPhone 3G it became evidently clear where the mobile industry was going.

    The 5800XM and Nokia N97 were absolute spec beasts, they were like the touchscreen versions of the Nokia N95 and E90, Jack of All Trades, master of none, and their UI felt like a work in progress, not even in Beta phase but rather in Alpha.

    Both Nokia and BB were so incredibly arrogant and sloppy in their approach, they failed to see why people were leaving their devices for iPhone and Android and it ultimately led to their demise.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    01-19-20 05:37 AM
  11. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    Just goes to show, if you build something solid, reliable and just continue to make it better year after year, people will not have any reason to leave it. Never jump due to a big disruption, rather invest in R&D and do a thorough competitor analysis.

    They made such a mess rushing out the first Storm that nobody wanted to even try the Storm 2, which was actually a great product.

    Same thing happened with Nokia, they got into such a rush to get something out that they absolutely ruined their first iterations and missed what made iPhone and Android phones special. I had the Nokia 5800 XpressMusic and loved it but when I used it next to my Dad’s (an ex BB fan) iPhone 3G it became evidently clear where the mobile industry was going.

    The 5800XM and Nokia N97 were absolute spec beasts, they were like the touchscreen versions of the Nokia N95 and E90, Jack of All Trades, master of none, and their UI felt like a work in progress, not even in Beta phase but rather in Alpha.

    Both Nokia and BB were so incredibly arrogant and sloppy in their approach, they failed to see why people were leaving their devices for iPhone and Android and it ultimately led to their demise.
    I've heard several explanations for Nokia getting left behind, but one thing I'm fairly certain of is that they didn't make enough Verizon and Sprint compatible phones here in the States and we practically forgot they existed. I wasn't paying that much attention to AT&T so I don't know for sure what they had available, and T-Mobile was non-existent in this market back then. From 2000 to 2006 I can't remember anything being sold other than Motorola, Samsung, Sanyo, and Kyocera in my area.
    Tsepz_GP and Laura Knotek like this.
    01-19-20 06:00 AM
  12. chain13's Avatar
    Storm2 was a tank if you got the right one, how different things might have turned out if they'd got that version as the original.
    I like torch more than storm, 9850.
    01-19-20 09:40 AM
  13. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I agree 100% and as a business person myself I have seen several companies who where very successful and lost touch with the folks who where buying their products and where soon on the outside looking in as their competitors put them out of business.
    One of the basic principles of sustaining success as a market leader is a willingness to innovate even at the risk of destroying your business model. After all, if you don't don't, your competitors will!

    BlackBerry wasn't wiling to compete with itself on the future of mobile devices, so it wasn't prepared for the shift in purchase power from IT departments to consumers.

    Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android
    01-19-20 10:30 AM
  14. conite's Avatar
    One of the basic principles of sustaining success as a market leader is a willingness to innovate even at the risk of destroying your business model. After all, if you don't don't, your competitors will!

    BlackBerry wasn't wiling to compete with itself on the future of mobile devices, so it wasn't prepared for the shift in purchase power from IT departments to consumers.

    Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android
    I think it's even simpler than that.

    BlackBerry limited couldn't have been at a worse spot in their product cycle when Apple came out in late 2007. They were a minimum of 4 years away from being able to react even if they had started immediately.

    To compound the problem, it took them another 3 years to even start the process (when they bought QNX) - although they did that to earn back a couple of years.

    Either way, whether 2011 or 2013, it was already over.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    01-19-20 10:36 AM
  15. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I think it's even simpler than that.

    BlackBerry limited couldn't have been at a worse spot in their product cycle when Apple came out in late 2007. They were a minimum of 4 years away from being able to react even if they had started immediately.
    Yes. I think their only strategy was to build a solid ecosystem with partners in the corporate space and innovate faster there. They were never going to compete effectively in the consumer electronics market.

    Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android
    01-19-20 10:43 AM
  16. app_Developer's Avatar
    Storm would have failed even without hardware issues because the SDK was still really primitive. The apps people want would still have come out on iPhone and Android because both had proper modern SDKs and APIs/frameworks.
    01-19-20 10:48 AM
  17. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    The only real option would have been to stick with BBOS as they have now and build it’s Enterprise security business phone model on top of it better. That way, employers could decide to pay the monthly premium to control personal usage and the problems it brings.
    01-19-20 10:52 AM
  18. app_Developer's Avatar
    The only real option would have been to stick with BBOS as they have now and build it’s Enterprise security business phone model on top of it better. That way, employers could decide to pay the monthly premium to control personal usage and the problems it brings.
    But lose out on all the apps that many enterprises now depend on. Even working in “old school” industries like I have (banking and then automobile manufacturing) our teams use native apps. It would be silly inefficient to do my job using just a web browser.

    And these apps were not possible using the primitive BBOS. In fact, even a modern web browser wasn’t possible.
    01-19-20 11:01 AM
  19. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    But lose out on all the apps that many enterprises now depend on. Even working in “old school” industries like I have (banking and then automobile manufacturing) our teams use native apps. It would be silly inefficient to do my job using just a web browser.

    And these apps were not possible using the primitive BBOS. In fact, even a modern web browser wasn’t possible.
    Developing third OS wasn’t a real competitive option. The only real option was to maintain BIS revenue as long as possible which it did as we’ve seen.
    01-19-20 11:10 AM
  20. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Developing third OS wasn’t a real competitive option. The only real option was to maintain BIS revenue as long as possible which it did as we’ve seen.
    When I first came to CrackBerry back in 2007/2008... there were some heated discussions here about the limitations of BBOS and Java from a development standpoint.

    I just assumed there were smart people at BlackBerry that were already working on the next OS. Palm was working on WebOS... I don't really understand what BlackBerry was really thinking.

    But at that point, Apple wasn't beyond BlackBerry's ability to compete...
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    01-20-20 08:20 AM
  21. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    When I first came to CrackBerry back in 2007/2008... there were some heated discussions here about the limitations of BBOS and Java from a development standpoint.

    I just assumed there were smart people at BlackBerry that were already working on the next OS. Palm was working on WebOS... I don't really understand what BlackBerry was really thinking.

    But at that point, Apple wasn't beyond BlackBerry's ability to compete...
    Technology-wise BlackBerry was able to compete with Apple but it never had the economic resources or diversified revenue sources.

    In 2007, BlackBerry total revenues were $3 Billion while Apple total income was $3.5 Billion and Apple total revenues were $24 Billion in comparison.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    01-20-20 08:53 AM
  22. Emaderton3's Avatar
    But lose out on all the apps that many enterprises now depend on. Even working in “old school” industries like I have (banking and then automobile manufacturing) our teams use native apps. It would be silly inefficient to do my job using just a web browser.

    And these apps were not possible using the primitive BBOS. In fact, even a modern web browser wasn’t possible.
    Not to mention that the real revenue was from BIS and not the devices. They were doomed.
    01-20-20 08:56 AM
  23. app_Developer's Avatar
    Technology-wise BlackBerry was able to compete with Apple but it never had the economic resources or diversified revenue sources.

    In 2007, BlackBerry total revenues were $3 Billion while Apple total income was $3.5 Billion and Apple total revenues were $24 Billion in comparison.
    That’s true, but it’s also true that the Android team got a lot done before 2005. Their OS was considerably more advanced than BBOS even before they got acquired by Google. They were just a small startup.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    01-20-20 09:05 AM
  24. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    That’s true, but it’s also true that the Android team got a lot done before 2005. Their OS was considerably more advanced than BBOS even before they got acquired by Google. They were just a small startup.
    I’m simply referring to economic sustainability. Apple, Google and Microsoft had so much cash, each company individually, BlackBerry could have owned Android with Google owning something different with same results.

    The biggest issue that BlackBerry has wasn’t even ecosystem support but that even if BB10 was ready to go side by side, it would kill BBOS revenue immediately without replacing it. That’s same reason most OEMs show low to zero Android profits. Monetization has been Android issue.
    app_Developer likes this.
    01-20-20 09:14 AM
  25. app_Developer's Avatar
    I’m simply referring to economic sustainability. Apple, Google and Microsoft had so much cash, each company individually, BlackBerry could have owned Android with Google owning something different with same results.

    The biggest issue that BlackBerry has wasn’t even ecosystem support but that even if BB10 was ready to go side by side, it would kill BBOS revenue immediately without replacing it. That’s same reason most OEMs show low to zero Android profits. Monetization has been Android issue.
    Yes, that’s true. Well the good news is they got a nice car business out of it when they bought QNX.
    01-20-20 09:17 AM
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