03-08-12 08:21 PM
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  1. sleepngbear's Avatar
    LOL @ 'like another organ."
    03-06-12 11:30 AM
  2. nomloj's Avatar
    <snip>... if yours is so good, flaunt it in ur own forum for gods sake... <snip>
    Can't do that... How do you flaunt something in ur own forum when everyone else has the same thing? Only bragging rights then would be how many stickers you can put on it to differentiate it from others. They might believe it to be the best but it's just mediocre when everyone else has it, too. Hence why they have to come here where there's just gotta be someone who doesn't have the same thing they do.
    03-06-12 11:41 AM
  3. Morty2264's Avatar
    LOL @ 'like another organ."
    It sometimes seems like an appropriate simile!
    03-06-12 12:30 PM
  4. s7khan's Avatar
    I dont know that Chrysler is a good example of a success story since they received a government bailout in the late 70's (maybe early 80's) under Iococca and went on to get another bailout in the late 2000's. After the last bailout didnt they get bought out by Fiat? Lots of good examples of companies being down and out and then coming back - but Chrysler sadly is not one of them IMO.
    The government did not give them a penny. The loans that they received were guaranteed by the government, meaning that if Chrysler couldn't pay back it's debt, then the government would pay the banks. Chrysler paid it's loan well in advance, and was a healthy company up to the late 90s. A generation later, a new breed of management brought the company down again, imo.
    03-06-12 02:27 PM
  5. s7khan's Avatar
    It should hardly be necessary to explain this but, I guess I need to. First and foremost NONE OF THIS IS OFFICIAL RIM SPEAK. I have never heard RIM complain about the shabby garbage so much of the press spews forth about them. RIM is just going along doing their thing. Stuff on these forums is just unaffiliated individuals voicing their thoughts.

    If you believe what the press says is based on quality reporting and analysis, I would suggest you don't know what proper reporting is. A good analysis of RIMM will show there are rational reasons for what they are doing. Yes they are taking a gamble and if it does not work out, they may fold (more likely be sold). In my opinion they needed to take the gamble of rebuilding their entire product line and infrastructure. They may have waited too long before starting this perestroika (restructuring) but, it may have taken that long to find and buy QNX, which is a key component.

    Had any quality reporting actually been done, the stock market might have treated RIMM much better...I doubt it.
    I think you need to read what I said again. I said I was tired of threads, not of what RIM has said themselves. I know that these threads are in no way representative of RIM.

    And regarding the press, in my example of Apple, I cited a perfectly good product being destroyed by reviews for trying something different, and better. So I think you got what I said wrong. But I also did mention that a company that has an overwhelming bit of bad news, with hard numbers to back at least some of their points will receive negative press. It happens to many companies in this position. Some are closer to death then others. And as for criticizing decisions the press have made from this point on, I don't seem to remember any particularly negative reports based on RIM's transition towards QNX for their smartphones other then it's taking too long. The press owes no one, and will turn on you for the smallest thing.

    And finally, no company is immune in the stock market from public perception, so to say that the market price could've fared better if the reporting was less negative was again, purely RIM's lack of appreciation for public relation during a difficult time. Cancelling an interview, questioning why just 10% of the market isn't good enough, being invisible for 2 days during the worst outage of the company's history, and a new CEO's poor statement regarding his predecessors are all good reasons for an investor to get scared and run.
    03-06-12 02:40 PM
  6. Mystic205's Avatar
    Making a cellular call to a gateway is not now, and never has been VoIP.. The function provided by Skype is no more than a that of a calling card, actually not even that good.

    Once you use your Skype over a wifi connection from overseas with the cellular connection turned off, then feel free to reply..

    Skype can be found on BlackBerry phones. See the attached screen shot from my Torch.
    03-07-12 08:57 AM
  7. sleepngbear's Avatar
    Ok, regarding Skype, I understand that it is a critical need for those who need it. What I would like to know is, what percentage of users is it important to? This plays more heavily into how aggressively a platform provider would attempt to overcome the obstacles to have it available on its platform. I'm thinking it's the old 'the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few,' regardless of how critical that need may be for the few.
    03-07-12 09:11 AM
  8. mjs416's Avatar
    The government did not give them a penny. The loans that they received were guaranteed by the government, meaning that if Chrysler couldn't pay back it's debt, then the government would pay the banks. Chrysler paid it's loan well in advance, and was a healthy company up to the late 90s. A generation later, a new breed of management brought the company down again, imo.
    Having the government back the loans for loans you would otherwise be unable to obtain is still a government bailout. If the government would not have backed those loans - it could be argued that Chrysler would not have been able to acquire additional money to survive. They also fell under federal balance and checks while the loans were outstanding (i.e. government oversight).

    I do realize they repaid those loans and the government made some money off the stocks - but I still wouldnt consider Chrysler a shining beacon of corporate success.
    03-07-12 09:26 AM
  9. palmless's Avatar
    Having the government back the loans for loans you would otherwise be unable to obtain is still a government bailout. If the government would not have backed those loans - it could be argued that Chrysler would not have been able to acquire additional money to survive. They also fell under federal balance and checks while the loans were outstanding (i.e. government oversight).

    I do realize they repaid those loans and the government made some money off the stocks - but I still wouldnt consider Chrysler a shining beacon of corporate success.
    And...

    The guarantee of a loan has a value. Sometimes a very large value. Oversimplification, but it is as if the USA "co-signed" Chrysler's loan. Finance majors, no need to quibble at my oversimplification, I admit it!

    If it were anyone else but the gov't, the guarantee is a "Contingent Liability" which limits the guarantor's ability to borrow, which is a "cost" to the guarantor.

    The guarantee was a VERY valuable gift.
    03-07-12 09:29 AM
  10. gwinegarden's Avatar
    c'mon guys...grab a starbucks and chill out
    Canadiens fans should avoid caffeine.
    03-07-12 10:00 AM
  11. guzprom's Avatar
    Okay, these why does everyone hate BlackBerry threads are becoming a bit annoying now. There are many reasons why people and the media are hating on BlackBerry. It's not a witch hunt, it's the common trend.

    ...

    This paranoia about why the world hates RIM really needs to stop. RIM brought themselves into this situation like so many companies have in the past. It's their job to fix it. Be it through smart marketing or great products, or hopefully both.
    I think you misses the question... For me its why "everyone hate blackberry THREADS" creeping up in THIS BB forum. Not why everyone hate blackberry. If darwinian claims BB as its next weakest prey, then I can understand and accept.. BUT what I can't accept is...
    This is a forum of users to share stuff and encourage use of BB... why belittle, bash, or throw comments at our devices when we are using it and try to make do with it. we are the users. Bring ur grievance to RIM which has their own forum and website.
    We are just trying to make our experience with the device better. Even if you are right the device is inferior.. no need to rub salt to the wound and bring your RIM bashing somewhere else. For me, that is the point.. Maybe I'm wrong. I think this is the 10th times i said this in threads like this but in deeper thread like playbook or 99xx threads (which both I own, thats why Im there in the first place)
    03-07-12 10:34 AM
  12. mjs416's Avatar
    And...

    The guarantee of a loan has a value. Sometimes a very large value. Oversimplification, but it is as if the USA "co-signed" Chrysler's loan. Finance majors, no need to quibble at my oversimplification, I admit it!

    If it were anyone else but the gov't, the guarantee is a "Contingent Liability" which limits the guarantor's ability to borrow, which is a "cost" to the guarantor.

    The guarantee was a VERY valuable gift.
    Not saying it wasnt. The point of discussion (that you apparently missed) was whether or not the government backing over a billion dollars in loans constitutes a government bailout. Although I think the guy that replied to me might have mis-read my post as saying the government made the loans - which I never said they did.

    Who else besides the govt would have backed that level of cash for a company like Chrysler? *crickets*
    03-07-12 01:23 PM
  13. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    OK, here goes my theory:

    Former BB owners develop current needs from mobile devices that BB doesn't offer at this time. They jump to another platform, but still remain on CB because they have friends here and to keep tabs on RIM's offerings in the hope that they'll produce something that fits their needs. Months go by, and this doesn't happen. They get increasingly frustrated because all they want is a superphone wrapped in a nice BB package. In the meantime while they're waiting, they see CB'ers constantly bash other platforms and spread blatant misinformation about them. Then as soon as someone speaks up against the misinformation, suddenly according to CB'ers they're "flaunting their own device" and "trolling." CB'ers start assuming that anytime someone says anything pro Android, iPhone, etc that they must be anti-RIM and obviously MUST have an agenda and must be counter-trolled on outta here.

    Not that I'm speaking from experience or anything .
    Morty2264 and Blacklatino like this.
    03-07-12 01:25 PM
  14. Morty2264's Avatar
    OK, here goes my theory:

    Former BB owners develop current needs from mobile devices that BB doesn't offer at this time. They jump to another platform, but still remain on CB because they have friends here and to keep tabs on RIM's offerings in the hope that they'll produce something that fits their needs. Months go by, and this doesn't happen. They get increasingly frustrated because all they want is a superphone wrapped in a nice BB package. In the meantime while they're waiting, they see CB'ers constantly bash other platforms and spread blatant misinformation about them. Then as soon as someone speaks up against the misinformation, suddenly according to CB'ers they're "flaunting their own device" and "trolling." CB'ers start assuming that anytime someone says anything pro Android, iPhone, etc that they must be anti-RIM and obviously MUST have an agenda and must be counter-trolled on outta here.

    Not that I'm speaking from experience or anything .

    I think there is a lot of truth in what you're saying. I'm still quite happy with my device; but I think that before people criticize other platforms, they should do some research on those platforms beforehand so they truly know what they're talking about and what is true and false. I'm a member of AndroidCentral and have no Android; but am doing research on them so I can get a phone for my brother. I really see no difference between that forum and this one. The set-up is almost identical; and same with the user profiles. It's the same with us: we're all smartphone users.

    But seriously, if someone likes iPhone, Android, Windows, etc., they should be allowed to say so without others thinking they're anti-RIM. They're all cool phones - hey, some people on here even have a collection of these brands and love them all!
    pantlesspenguin likes this.
    03-07-12 01:43 PM
  15. Rootbrian's Avatar
    I don't have any hatred towards other platforms. I ignore ones who hate on blackberry and research in motion, they just cannot appreciate what's offered or available, ever. (Speaking in general, there are people who do go through many cell phones in a year because they can't stick with one for even a month)
    Morty2264 and Blacklatino like this.
    03-07-12 01:49 PM
  16. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    There's a BIG difference between "hating on RIM" and having genuine concerns or disappointments. I've seen people get labeled as trolls and hating on rim because they're disappointed that Netflix isn't available for Playbook, OS 7 looks too similar to OS 6, their 99xx bricked, BB10 is being delayed too long, etc etc etc. They speak their own opinions and some BB enthusiasts are like "Nuh uh! Talk to the hand, troll!" Same thing if they post an article that doesn't give RIM a glowing review. They might just want to gauge what the CB community thinks of that particular assessment, but the OP is labeled as a troll for simply posting the article!

    I COMPLETELY understand that it works both ways, and I'm not saying that there aren't genuine pro Android, iPhone, etc trolls that come to CB to say that RIM sucks. But I've seen many more instances of well-meaning, contributing members of CB get called a troll because BB enthusiasts are very quick to judge.

    ETA: Also, people should remember that trolling goes both ways. IMHO, just because this is a BB fansite shouldn't mean that BB fanboys are at liberty to bash Android, iPhone, etc. People who say that Android phones aren't for serious users, use terms like "iToy" etc are trolling just as much as people who come here with the intent to bash RIM.
    Last edited by pantlesspenguin; 03-07-12 at 02:23 PM.
    03-07-12 01:57 PM
  17. mjs416's Avatar
    There's a BIG difference between "hating on RIM" and having genuine concerns or disappointments. I've seen people get labeled as trolls and hating on rim because they're disappointed that Netflix isn't available for Playbook, OS 7 looks too similar to OS 6, their 99xx bricked, BB10 is being delayed too long, etc etc etc. They speak their own opinions and some BB enthusiasts are like "Nuh uh! Talk to the hand, troll!" Same thing if they post an article that doesn't give RIM a glowing review.
    Constant complaining is not constructive in any form. Honestly - what does a person stand to gain by starting a thread titled "OMFG - PB has NO NETFLIX?! WTF RIM?!?!?/11". Absolutely nothing.

    There's a thread (somewhere in the PB forum) about a guy who made several user errors - blamed the problems on the tablet - and threw it on the ground and stomped on it. That is what I see around these forums on a continuing basis. Blaming the device because people apparently dont want to take the time to learn about it. That is also not constructive.
    03-08-12 06:27 AM
  18. guzprom's Avatar
    If guys complaints about their device. It's fine... Annoying when I see devices they hav. Is totally unrelated to the thread but give long and winded preaching about their device...
    03-08-12 07:39 AM
  19. alnamvet68's Avatar
    I've been curious about this out and out hostility toward all things BlackBerry. There are, I'm sure a number of reasons for it. These thoughts are my own and have no basis in fact, statistics or research.

    If you own a non-BB device and do so because it meets your needs, non of these pathologies apply to you. You have made a rational choice for proper reasons. Of course, it begs the question; What are you doing here reading this?

    1) There are, I suspect, some people here receiving compensation to spread Fear Uncertainty and Doubt (FUD) about the quality of BBs and the long-term outlook for RIM. I can understand this personality. They are your basic con.

    2) For a surprising number of people, their mobile devices are religious icons they must have to feel a part of the movement. I won't mention the company that appears to have the most cult like following but, we all know it. These people feel they are somehow incomplete and, being part of something appears to help. Of course, they will in many cases move on and may realize the association was not what they wanted. By the way, there are BlackBerry cultist.

    3) They grew up watching their mom and/or dad paying constant attention to the BlackBerry and, by extension, little attention to them. They project that anger on to BlackBerry instead of where it belongs. The only hope for these people is that they grow out of it. I personally hope they don't the same thing to their children with their iGadgets.

    4) They had/have a work provided BlackBerry that is totally locked down by the BES administrator at their company. They believe it is the nature of all BlackBerrys to be unable to do much more than phone calls and email. They may learn the truth if RIM does proper marketing.

    5) They don't care or, perhaps realize, it is a tool with a narrow set of uses. For them, the mobile device is a container for hundreds or thousands of applications. They are, I assume looking for the ultimate application and hope if there are many, many applications available, they will find that magic app to bring them fulfillment. These are the most disturbed of all because they live their lives in a bubble without ever seeing that devices are not a substitute for human interaction.

    Again, just my thoughts. Take them for what they are worth.
    OP, instead of looking for the rationale for this insanity by way of some psycho babble, which can be found in the DSM IV, may I suggest what I believe is the root of the problem, wrath, greed, sloth, pride, lust, envy, and gluttony...answer found in your local and friendly app called eEmanuel.

    Who says BlackBerry doesn't have an app for that?
    03-08-12 07:54 AM
  20. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    Constant complaining is not constructive in any form. Honestly - what does a person stand to gain by starting a thread titled "OMFG - PB has NO NETFLIX?! WTF RIM?!?!?/11". Absolutely nothing.

    There's a thread (somewhere in the PB forum) about a guy who made several user errors - blamed the problems on the tablet - and threw it on the ground and stomped on it. That is what I see around these forums on a continuing basis. Blaming the device because people apparently dont want to take the time to learn about it. That is also not constructive.
    I completely agree with you. I also think this brings up another good point. People that have been here for awhile have all heard the same gripes over and over again. But say someone goes to Best Buy with the intent of buying an iPad. He ends up test driving the Playbook and falls in love with it. He takes it home and starts downloading apps. It's only then he finds out that Netflix isn't supported. Surprised, he goes online to see if this is indeed the case. He stumbles upon Crackberry. Like the majority of people, instead of using the trusty ol' search button he makes his own thread regarding his experience (not saying this is the right thing to do!!!). In his mind he's just surprised and is asking a question. But most CBers would cry troll because it's yet another "no Netflix" thread. If anything, this shows how important the search function is for all parties involved!

    Playing devil's advocate on the user error issue, I also see people who jumped to Android or iPhone and then come back to BB after awhile. When asked why they return they say that the device couldn't do this this this and that so they got frustrated...when I know for a fact the device could do all that but they couldn't be bothered to learn how to use the OS. All they know is that it didn't work *like it did on bb* so they assume it doesn't have that capability. This is a BIG source of some of the misinformation about other devices that gets thrown around over here. Again, this just goes to show how it pays to be patient when learning a new OS. My jump from the Danger platform to Blackberry was a frustrating one, but I'm really glad I stuck with it to learn the ins & outs of BB!
    Chrisy and Morty2264 like this.
    03-08-12 12:10 PM
  21. wylderubicon's Avatar
    I'm not one with big words for this thread, but here is my take on the OP's subject.

    Hate? I honestly haven't seen too much of that. Yes there are some who hate it and lets it be known. I think they sometimes come from a former frustrated hard core BB fan. A troll perhaps.

    What I do see often here is when people switch platforms and come here to express their (in their own mind) reason, they get labeled BB haters. Perhaps they feel the need to let other BB users know how greener the grass is on the other side assuming that the reasons will apply to everyone whether true or not.(who isn’t guilty of this? Probably I am also) . If some has an iphone or android, that person becomes a hater, but usually only here of course.

    What I actually do see more, and I have mentioned this before, is more hate and towards the other platforms. "igarbage" "dumbdriod" etc. And it goes even beyond that, expressing the hate towards its users calling them "isheeps", "istupid", "iidiots”. There are more threads about how apple and android sucks than how good BB is at times.

    Just don’t attack the users just because they use other platforms please. Stating that people who use BB are the only smart and business successful people and others are lacking in IQ just sounds very hateful.

    I think people here feel they have been beaten down a bit by how the world "in general" sees RIM. As if RIM was stripped from their crown. no longer the King.(again whether true or not) Perhaps they feel over protective and sensitive to any criticism to the point when some one expresses an issue here looking for a solution, they get a "user error" or "GTFO troll", "you are getting reported" thrown at them, and labeled BB hater from them on. Frustration does not equal hate or troll I’m my opinion.

    I agree with most of you that no one here wants to hear how great the “others” are, after all this is a BB fan forum. But at the same time its not very welcoming for cross-platform open minded people. And this does not go out to all of the people here. Just some.



    And what am I doing here? Former BB user who started prospecting a new tablet. Probably not going for the PB, but I find some of the people here very intelligent and I enjoy reading their perspective and opinion. Just as I do on the other forums. I hope you see me as open minded and not a “wishy washy hater” at the same time very much looking forward to what BB10 has to offer. Perhaps I am a troll.
    03-08-12 01:19 PM
  22. ADozenEggs@aol.com's Avatar
    While I don't want RIM to loss customers,
    Ironic.....
    03-08-12 01:20 PM
  23. Morty2264's Avatar
    I completely agree with you. I also think this brings up another good point. People that have been here for awhile have all heard the same gripes over and over again. But say someone goes to Best Buy with the intent of buying an iPad. He ends up test driving the Playbook and falls in love with it. He takes it home and starts downloading apps. It's only then he finds out that Netflix isn't supported. Surprised, he goes online to see if this is indeed the case. He stumbles upon Crackberry. Like the majority of people, instead of using the trusty ol' search button he makes his own thread regarding his experience (not saying this is the right thing to do!!!). In his mind he's just surprised and is asking a question. But most CBers would cry troll because it's yet another "no Netflix" thread. If anything, this shows how important the search function is for all parties involved!

    Playing devil's advocate on the user error issue, I also see people who jumped to Android or iPhone and then come back to BB after awhile. When asked why they return they say that the device couldn't do this this this and that so they got frustrated...when I know for a fact the device could do all that but they couldn't be bothered to learn how to use the OS. All they know is that it didn't work *like it did on bb* so they assume it doesn't have that capability. This is a BIG source of some of the misinformation about other devices that gets thrown around over here. Again, this just goes to show how it pays to be patient when learning a new OS. My jump from the Danger platform to Blackberry was a frustrating one, but I'm really glad I stuck with it to learn the ins & outs of BB!
    You are very wise! I think all the brands of smartphones out there can do more or less the same thing - give or take some hardware differences, app gaps, and other things - and it just takes time for anyone to get used to those differences. When I switched from a normal phone to my BlackBerry, I was quite frustrated for a while and very lost; but after about two weeks I was very much in love with it. If you stick with something and work at it, it will end up being an asset and not a drawback.
    03-08-12 08:21 PM
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