[Bbnivende]

Wrong. The Z30 was not successful because it was a premium priced mass market 16:9 standard all touch phone with last years hardware and no ecosystem.

"Hey why take that Galaxy S4 when for the same money you can get that BlackBerry with Galaxy S3 hardware and no ecosystem?".

If BlackBerry wants to survive they better differentiate themselves, double down on strengths, generate competitive advantages and serve a viable and profitable niche where their devices are the best you can buy, even if that's small. What they totally don't need is another standard me-too device for the mass market they can't compete with because it does almost everything that target audience cares about worse than the competition.

I would only add that after the next two keyboard phones come out that blackberry needs to enhance their old z10 and z 30 phones.

[lift]

You sure are trying to sell your worry as fact. Every time someone posts a potential positive you argue it. How about a nice "Gosh that's a good point you've made there. I never considered that." but no. So if you aren't open to others opinions your pushing your wheelbarrow full of worry my way. You haven't had it in your hands, you don't know how it performs, or how it feels. Until then you've made your point. Your very worried.

Posted via CB10

My worry is fact for me. I never tried to say or imply that my worry (or opinions) are a fact for everyone or in general. I am not pushing my worry on you, or anyone else. If you are not worried about the possible fact that any failure by BlackBerry may be enough to push them out of business, then you don't really care about the companies future as much as some people including myself do.
That's all I have been saying all along and is the reason I started this thread. I will say it again. My POINT all along is that people will see the Passport as a short, ugly and fat device and then walk away. They won't care how "innovative" or "wonderful" the device is. They will not like the appearance and the BlackBerry name and that may lead to a big problem for BlackBerry. Is it OK for me to have my own opinion and my own concerns?

[--TommesJay--]

I would only add that after the next two keyboard phones come out that blackberry needs to enhance their old z10 and z 30 phones.

Totally agree. So my point is basically that the Passport should be their signature flagship device going forward, so that their next all touch attempt is percepted as

"An alltouch variant from the maker of that awesome keyboard phablet" rather than

"The latest mee too approach of that dying phone maker".

[Bbnivende]

My worry is fact for me. I never tried to say or imply that my worry (or opinions) are a fact for everyone or in general. I am not pushing my worry on you, or anyone else. If you are not worried about the possible fact that any failure by BlackBerry may be enough to push them out of business, then you don't really care about the companies future as much as some people including myself do.
That's all I have been saying all along and is the reason I started this thread. I will say it again. My POINT all along is that people will see the Passport as a short, ugly and fat device and then walk away. They won't care how "innovative" or "wonderful" the device is. They will not like the appearance and the BlackBerry name and that may lead to a big problem for BlackBerry. Is it OK for me to have my own opinion and my own concerns?

There are opinions and then there are informed opinions. Please cite a reference where a person who has seen the actual device was critical of its appearance or format.

[anon721037]

The more and more i look at this device, i'm starting to really like it, besides its just like me short little fat fellow

[lift]

There are opinions and then there are informed opinions. Please cite a reference where a person who has seen the actual device was critical of its appearance or format.

What are you, some kind of fool? I have been showing pictures of this phone around to many friends and family members. So now I have to list the names of friends or family members I showed this to?? Just for you? Give me a break. That was a ridiculous request. I have not had one good response from anyone I showed this device to, Even before I told them it was a BlackBerry. Some people on this forum are so blinded with their own likes and desires that they have no concern whether the device is actually going to hurt BlackBerry or not. Just because you love this device does not mean you are in the majority. As a matter of fact, you are in the very very small minority.

[anon721037]

I think your right, but once it comes out and we get to see it hands on, is when it will take off, i dont think pics does it justice,

[Bravurag]

Believe me, I'm not picking on short ugly fat kids, or anybody at all. I had my share of being picked on when I was growing up. But the Passport looks like a short, ugly and fat (wide) phone that is just begging to be picked on.
I know I bash the Passport a lot and I'm sorry for that. I just hope that my gut feeling about the phone being a failure is wrong.

YOU SHOULD BE REALLY SORRY! Passport is what we call innovation...accept the unusual!

Posted via CB10

[jack1059]

Whoa whoa whoa. You love BlackBerry but for 16 pages you've argued against a phone you've neither tried nor seen. And you can't see the flaw in your approach to this thread. Sorry mate I can't fix stupid. And I'm done.

Posted via CB10

[Bbnivende]

What are you, some kind of fool? I have been showing pictures of this phone around to many friends and family members. So now I have to list the names of friends or family members I showed this to?? Just for you? Give me a break. That was a ridiculous request. I have not had one good response from anyone I showed this device to, Even before I told them it was a BlackBerry. Some people on this forum are so blinded with their own likes and desires that they have no concern whether the device is actually going to hurt BlackBerry or not. Just because you love this device does not mean you are in the majority. As a matter of fact, you are in the very very small minority.

Since I have never seen or used the actual device I can neither hate it or love it. I would probably not fall in love with a phone in any case.

I'll leave it to others to decide who is the fool.

Posted via CB10

[--TommesJay--]

What are you, some kind of fool? I have been showing pictures of this phone around to many friends and family members. So now I have to list the names of friends or family members I showed this to?? Just for you? Give me a break. That was a ridiculous request. I have not had one good response from anyone I showed this device to, Even before I told them it was a BlackBerry. Some people on this forum are so blinded with their own likes and desires that they have no concern whether the device is actually going to hurt BlackBerry or not. Just because you love this device does not mean you are in the majority. As a matter of fact, you are in the very very small minority.

Okay then let's assume BlackBerry weren't to launch something like the Passport, but a classic makeover of the Z30, a Z50 instead. And then let's assume you showed pictures of that one around your family and friends. Probably all of them were to say it looks great, some of them may even respond it's hot. Would that make you feel better about BlackBerrys fortunes? Because no one of them would buy one anyway, they'll just go for an equivalent with far better brand reputation.

I'd rather have BlackBerry release a controversial phone that gets loved and bought by some people than a standard one that everybody finds 'nice' but won't buy because dozens of other phones are percepted the same but better.

[rohetaku]

In response to all who are concerned about the non-replaceable battery: maybe this is a bone that BlackBerry is throwing to the carriers. It will be much easier for carriers to sell extended warranties on phones that are not user-serviceable. I'm sure you will be able to buy coverage even for sealed batteries.

Posted via CB10

I totally agree!

Posted via CB10

[James Blight]

What are you, some kind of fool? I have been showing pictures of this phone around to many friends and family members. So now I have to list the names of friends or family members I showed this to?? Just for you? Give me a break. That was a ridiculous request. I have not had one good response from anyone I showed this device to, Even before I told them it was a BlackBerry. Some people on this forum are so blinded with their own likes and desires that they have no concern whether the device is actually going to hurt BlackBerry or not. Just because you love this device does not mean you are in the majority. As a matter of fact, you are in the very very small minority.

interesting. I have gotten mixed reviews when I have shown friends (wide range of iPhone / android / BlackBerry users) the pics and videos of the Passport. Some have said it looks too big, others think it looks like a useful business tool, others have loved it.

Posted via CB 10 on my Z30 (STA100-5) w 10.2.1.3253

[lift]

Okay then let's assume BlackBerry weren't to launch something like the Passport, but a classic makeover of the Z30, a Z50 instead. And then let's assume you showed pictures of that one around your family and friends. Probably all of them were to say it looks great, some of them may even respond it's hot. Would that make you feel better about BlackBerrys fortunes? Because no one of them would buy one anyway, they'll just go for an equivalent with far better brand reputation.

I'd rather have BlackBerry release a controversial phone that gets loved and bought by some people than a standard one that everybody finds 'nice' but won't buy because dozens of other phones are percepted the same but better.

You seriously think the Passport is going to sell more than a Z30 all touch makeover? You have got to be kidding me. If BlackBerry made a new all touch flagship instead of the Passport and actually marketed it I think it would sell FAR more than the Passport. John Chen is out there pushing the Passport and Classic. If he did the same with a new all touch device the device would have a far better chance of success than the Passport.
We will see how this device sells. I am also willing to bet that not one US carrier is going to carry it. The ONLY carrier to carry the Z30 is Verizon. If no US carrier will support the Passport then rest assured. BlackBerry will be all done.

[lift]

Whoa whoa whoa. You love BlackBerry but for 16 pages you've argued against a phone you've neither tried nor seen. And you can't see the flaw in your approach to this thread. Sorry mate I can't fix stupid. And I'm done.

Posted via CB10

Whoa whoa whoa, I do love BlackBerry and have bought many of their devices. How many have you bought? Besides that, I have argued against this phone BECAUSE I care about the company and I am very concerned that such a small niche the Passport will fill will be a huge problem for BlackBerry's financial future. Sorry you can't fix yourself. See ya.

[--TommesJay--]

You seriously think the Passport is going to sell more than a Z30 all touch makeover? You have got to be kidding me. If BlackBerry made a new all touch flagship instead of the Passport and actually marketed it I think it would sell FAR more than the Passport. John Chen is out there pushing the Passport and Classic. If he did the same with a new all touch device the device would have a far better chance of success than the Passport.
We will see how this device sells. I am also willing to bet that not one US carrier is going to carry it. The ONLY carrier to carry the Z30 is Verizon. If no US carrier will support the Passport then rest assured. BlackBerry will be all done.

Except that there's barely anything in a potential Z50 JC could push with a straight face, which is my very point. Just see it this way: why would a carrier carry and push a device that's just another 5" all touch slab in a flood of much better percepted and reputated phones of the same kind? See? Makes no sense.

What does make sense instead is sending something differentiated and leading out there to pave the way, even if it caters to a small demographic. Sales numbers aside, the Passport is in to redefine and re-strengthen BlackBerrys brand identity, perception and reputation. And be sure that as soon as a Z50 hits afterwards people will bat a different eye on it than in a world without a Passport.

[lift]

Except that there's barely anything in a potential Z50 JC could push with a straight face, which is my very point. Just see it this way: why would a carrier carry and push a device that's just another 5" all touch slab in a flood of much better percepted and reputated phones of the same kind? See? Makes no sense.

What does make sense instead is sending something differentiated and leading out there to pave the way, even if it caters to a small demographic. Sales numbers aside, the Passport is in to redefine and re-strengthen BlackBerrys brand identity, perception and reputation. And be sure that as soon as a Z50 hits afterwards people will bat a different eye on it than in a world without a Passport.

The first paragraph you wrote makes a good point. But the second paragraph is where many people are dreaming. I am sorry to disagree that the Passport will do any of the things you say it will. Different just to be different is not going to fix BlackBerry's reputation. The Passport (in my opinion) is going to just reinforce the general public's view of BlackBerry as just a Physical keyboard old school company that even today just doesn't get what people want.
BlackBerry should build a new high end all touch device and market it with something like "this is the new and better BlackBerry, we heard your complaints and are here to stay".

[Bbnivende]

I think that some are missing the point that the Passport is aimed at users who NEED a physical keyboard and want a bigger screen. Mr. STL has plenty of options for his beautiful to himself all touch device.

Essentially this device fills the hole left by not making a slider. It is fair game to say that a slider would have been better but we just will not know as there are not any good portrait sliders. The Passport will be judged by comparison to the Q10 and the new Classic and not the Z30.

As far as I can tell the main customers interested in the Z50 are current Z30 owners. That is quite a small group.

BlackBerry needs better cheap all touch devices to grow the brand. They have to compete in the all touch market by selling a great value phone at a very reasonable price. The only devices they can currently sell at a higher price point are the Classic and Passport. If wanted an expensive all touch phone it would not be a Z30 or a Z50.

Posted via CB10

[lift]

I think that some are missing the point that the Passport is aimed at users who NEED a physical keyboard and want a bigger screen. Mr. STL has plenty of options for his beautiful to himself all touch device.

Essentially this device fills the hole left by not making a slider. It is fair game to say that a slider would have been better but we just will not know as there are not any good portrait sliders. The Passport will be judged by comparison to the Q10 and the new Classic and not the Z30.

As far as I can tell the main customers interested in the Z50 are current Z30 owners. That is quite a small group.

BlackBerry needs better cheap all touch devices to grow the brand. They have to compete in the all touch market by selling a great value phone at a very reasonable price. The only devices they can currently sell at a higher price point are the Classic and Passport. If wanted an expensive phone it would not be a Z30 or a Z50.

Posted via CB10

The Passport will fill a small void in the market. Agreed. But how small is that void and at what cost will it inflict to BlackBerry's reputation? Again, just looking at the device will drive most away. Now tell them it's a BlackBerry and you just drove more of them away. Doesn't matter how great the device work's. That's all I am trying to say. Now couple that with the classic which looks like 2009 and then what?
You make some good points. I would like to think I do also. It's great discussion. Don't take me personally.

[Bbnivende]

It is my perception that there is even a smaller market for an expensive all touch BlackBerry because of the lack of an ecosystem and average at best camera. A good battery and nice OS is not enough. Much better all touch devices are suffering in the market place. They need to go down market.

A low price is what might reverse BlackBerry 's market slide. The Classic and Passport are being marketed to enterprises here in NA.

STL and I will have to have another conversation after the Passport comes out. I suspect that it will not be an embarrassment nor a bit hit either.
Posted via CB10

[--TommesJay--]

I am sorry to disagree that the Passport will do any of the things you say it will. Different just to be different is not going to fix BlackBerry's reputation.

Well IMO it's not just different for the sake of it but different for the better concerning certain tasks and needs.

But meanwhile I tend to assume you aren't able to see anything positive in this phone since you're maybe "not that keyboard kind of guy"? I mean you are personally convinced of the Z30 and its touch screen keyboard and want a Z50. I am personally not 100% satisfied with my Z10 and miss a hardware keyboard, but don't want to miss out on screen real estate and find the Passport very intriguing. You think the Passport is a bad idea, I think otherwise.

Coincidence? :-)

[lift]

It is my perception that there is even a smaller market for an expensive all touch BlackBerry because of the lack of an ecosystem and average at best camera. A good battery and nice OS is not enough. Much better all touch devices are suffering in the market place. They need to go down market.

A low price is what might reverse BlackBerry 's market slide. The Classic and Passport are being marketed to enterprises here in NA.

STL and I will have to have another conversation after the Passport comes out. I suspect that it will not be an embarrassment nor a bit hit either.
Posted via CB10

We will definitely have to have another conversation after the device comes out. Maybe we should give it a little time in the market too just to see how it's doing. We agree to disagree and it's all good fun.

[nhanken]

I was at Union GO station in Toronto today and I was walking by a guy who happened to be talking on his BlackBerry Passport. I immediately followed him and asked him, "Is that the Passport?" and he said yes. It's very easy to tell because of the size and the back. If he wasn't in a hurry while speaking on the phone, I would have asked him if I could take a picture of it.

All I can say is, it sure looks darn sexy when I actually saw it.


Posted via CB10

[TgeekB]

I think that some are missing the point that the Passport is aimed at users who NEED a physical keyboard and want a bigger screen. Mr. STL has plenty of options for his beautiful to himself all touch device.

Essentially this device fills the hole left by not making a slider. It is fair game to say that a slider would have been better but we just will not know as there are not any good portrait sliders. The Passport will be judged by comparison to the Q10 and the new Classic and not the Z30.

As far as I can tell the main customers interested in the Z50 are current Z30 owners. That is quite a small group.

BlackBerry needs better cheap all touch devices to grow the brand. They have to compete in the all touch market by selling a great value phone at a very reasonable price. The only devices they can currently sell at a higher price point are the Classic and Passport. If wanted an expensive all touch phone it would not be a Z30 or a Z50.

Posted via CB10

I agree, and I thought that was where they were heading with the Z3. Keep pushing it in more countries. I can even maybe see the Classic for the kb lovers (like me). The Passport is a mystery. Maybe it will make people think they are innovating but I think the timing is all wrong. They should have waited a year or so.

Listen to me, like I'm some kind of expert. Lol.

Germany. 2014 FIFA World Cup Champs!

[Orange UK]

I just find it offensive STL-100 could post a thread describing Chen like that...the mans got to come here to Crack and read what staff want posing as pro/consumers for him to implement.