02-07-11 08:28 PM
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  1. BlackStormRising's Avatar
    This is a quotation from a CEO of a prominent smart-phone company.
    "It's no longer a war between devices, it's a war of eco-systems."

    So lay down your swords lads (and lasses), it's not the best device that wins the war, it's the best eco-system!

    Somebody find the company name....

    And who has the #1 eco-system?

    #2? and #3?

    If you're #3 what's your strategy now?
    You've probably got 18 mths or less to get it right.

    There's a lot of smart people in this forum who can tackle this problem I bet.
    02-06-11 12:08 AM
  2. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I didn't google yet,
    But that sounds very Elop of Nokiaish saying it is a battle of Eco-systems.

    As for ecosystems, I'd think it goes

    Android, Blackberry, iPhone, Nokia, Windows.

    My reasoning as follows:
    Android has a large easy to develop app selection, and is supported by google who has a major cloud based network perfect for mobile use.
    Blackberry has BES, this is an infrastucture unto itself, and the devices meet many price point, and form factor desires.
    IPhone because it has the largest app network, and a following with the iPad, and Apple TV, and the like Apple devices
    Nokia, still the largest global provider
    Microsoft has a lot to offer in a odd package. If they can get office into the hands of the mobile phone users, and integrate hotmail and live into the device such as google has with their services there is a major contender here.


    I'm only going to address what I would do as Blackberry to try and gain on Android and keep Apple from moving furthere into my domain,
    As RIM my release of OS6.1 on the 2011 devices would corrispond with some app competitions, as well as working with the makers of the top 10 apps on each platform to ensure they are making a BBOS6 and QNX app
    I would also use my freedom as a inhouse software and hardware designer to develop a couple of pet projects like the Blackberry Style.
    A dual touch screen Clamshell with no keyboard maybe, or a pearl meets torch narrow guage form factor. The plethora of device offerings from Android, Nokia, and Windows 7, RIM should offer a bit of a Buzz.

    RIM makes a great business tool with BES, what RIM needs to make is a BHS (Blackberry Home Server). Allow it to support 6 devices for free and then a small fee for every multiple of 6 moving forward to a maximum of 24.
    BHS would allow the following
    - website logs of BHS connected
    - Push Calendar entries
    - Master Calendar for all connected devices
    - ability to lock app use
    BHS would work by installing an app on the device that can only be removed using BHS or a complete wipe of the device.

    This is a way to encorage the family to all carry Blackberry's. Make the family planning stem around a push notification system, possibly a tracking system.

    Sponsered events with media exposure and a simple app for each of those events, just to say "there is an app for that" with out ever actually pushing that, just make people always see Blackberry + apps + email

    That is SOME of what I would do

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-06-11 07:17 AM
  3. sleepngbear's Avatar
    I didn't google yet,
    But that sounds very Elop of Nokiaish saying it is a battle of Eco-systems.
    Damn, you're good.

    Ecosystem war in mobile market...

    However, there's no mention of RIM anywhere in there ...


    Elop of Nokia ... sounds like something from Lord of the Rings!
    02-06-11 08:07 AM
  4. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    There are rumors of a Nokia/ Microsoft partnership. Which spoke about joining an ecosystem a little while back, that is why I guessed Elop.
    r

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-06-11 08:19 AM
  5. BlackStormRising's Avatar
    There are rumors of a Nokia/ Microsoft partnership. Which spoke about joining an ecosystem a little while back, that is why I guessed Elop.


    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    You are right on - Nokia/Elop. This is the link:

    Could exec exits accompany Nokia strategy shift? | Wireless - CNET News

    This is a short list of the elements that the Smartphone maker's platform needs in order to survive going forward:

    1) There are good development tools and APIs for easily making good applications
    2) There is at least one killer application people really want
    3) There is breadth of useful applications
    4) Third parties make lots of money
    5) There is a robust ecosystem

    In the killer app area I would have to add BBM as one of RIM's proprietary aces. The area to address may be "3rd parties make lots of money".

    My first impression when glancing at this list is that Apple has all of these locked up, but I found an older article (no doubt debated at length here a couple of years back) which says otherwise:

    iPhone cannot win the smartphone wars | Betanews

    After reading this I'm quite bullish on RIM, for ALL of the reasons you outlined, plus the new wrinkle with QNX/Android/TAT. That's the ticket to the app window and closes gap 4). Add Amazon into the mix for your one-stop source for multi-media content, RIM can stick to what it does best, handsets and the enterprise architecture that you mentioned. In the next 24 months the picture is going to be quite different than today.

    RIM (with proper execution) is looking rock solid with a Jobless Apple looming. Nokia needs to decide quickly - Windows or Android. I think the clock is ticking on them right now, even more so than RIM.

    Dual touch clamshell? Did you just come up with that or has it been bandied about? That kind of idea is patentable! It sounds really intriguing!!
    02-06-11 10:22 AM
  6. BlackStormRising's Avatar

    Elop of Nokia ... sounds like something from Lord of the Rings!
    Dammit, you beat me to that one! ROTFL.
    He's going to need one of those palantir things for sure.
    02-06-11 10:36 AM
  7. _StephenBB81's Avatar

    Dual touch clamshell? Did you just come up with that or has it been bandied about? That kind of idea is patentable! It sounds really intriguing!!
    I came up with the idea in another thread asking what innovative things would you like to see out of RIM.

    I was thinking about Nintendo DS meets Blackberry Style.

    they'd have to put a double Hinge of the device, or figure a better hinging mechanism than is currently used on the Style
    my "vision" of the dual Screen Clamshell would be closed it would measure approximately
    90mm x 65mm x 19mm
    Open it would measure
    180mm x 65mm x 9.5mm

    for comparison
    Samsung Captivate
    122mm x 64mm x 9.9mm
    iPhone 4
    114mm x 59mm x 9.4mm

    When the device is opened there would be less than a .5mm gap between the screens at the top, with a 5mm boarder on each side giving it 2 screens approximately 85mm x 55mm back to back or 1 screen of 170mm by 55mm giving far more viewing real estate than other touchscreens but folding compact into a pocket or purse, and protecting the screen, no need for a lock on the screen because you close it to lock it.

    being able to write the OS to support 2 screens independently OR make them work as a single screen would be a bit tricky but think of the game development, and the porting of DS games!
    02-06-11 12:15 PM
  8. BlackStormRising's Avatar
    being able to write the OS to support 2 screens independently OR make them work as a single screen would be a bit tricky but think of the game development, and the porting of DS games!
    That sounds like something QNX could cope with. Really funky idea man.
    02-06-11 02:47 PM
  9. Dragon919's Avatar
    I came up with the idea in another thread asking what innovative things would you like to see out of RIM.

    I was thinking about Nintendo DS meets Blackberry Style.

    they'd have to put a double Hinge of the device, or figure a better hinging mechanism than is currently used on the Style
    my "vision" of the dual Screen Clamshell would be closed it would measure approximately
    90mm x 65mm x 19mm
    Open it would measure
    180mm x 65mm x 9.5mm

    for comparison
    Samsung Captivate
    122mm x 64mm x 9.9mm
    iPhone 4
    114mm x 59mm x 9.4mm

    When the device is opened there would be less than a .5mm gap between the screens at the top, with a 5mm boarder on each side giving it 2 screens approximately 85mm x 55mm back to back or 1 screen of 170mm by 55mm giving far more viewing real estate than other touchscreens but folding compact into a pocket or purse, and protecting the screen, no need for a lock on the screen because you close it to lock it.

    being able to write the OS to support 2 screens independently OR make them work as a single screen would be a bit tricky but think of the game development, and the porting of DS games!
    That's the kind of "out of the box" thinking, that could really bring RIM back to be the leader of the pack... Again!
    Last edited by Dragon919; 02-06-11 at 05:19 PM.
    02-06-11 05:13 PM
  10. Jashley73's Avatar
    It seems that the biggest thing lacking from RIM are the "fun" features and support that Android and Apple products have. Think general consumer market here. What really makes the iPhone and iPod so great is their ability to download/purchase any app conceivable, and then enjoy it via a touch screen. I played the "Dismount Man" game on a friends iPod, and thought about buying an iPod just for fun stuff like this...

    What you really need for a nice fun game, is a nice touch screen (and a device capable of the software.) I think the BB Torch is a starting point in this regard. And we've seen the leaked CDMA road-map of more touch screen phones. Now all we need is more fun apps, OR the ability to use other platforms apps as well.

    As deRusett said, the BHS sounds neat as well. My spin on it would be...
    Setup the BB Playbook as the "Home Server," and have the phones push e-mail, calender, weather, and whatever else to and from the Playbook/hand-helds using wifi or the BIS.
    02-06-11 05:54 PM
  11. K Bear's Avatar
    It seems that the biggest thing lacking from RIM are the "fun" features and support that Android and Apple products have. Think general consumer market here. What really makes the iPhone and iPod so great is their ability to download/purchase any app conceivable, and then enjoy it via a touch screen. I played the "Dismount Man" game on a friends iPod, and thought about buying an iPod just for fun stuff like this...

    What you really need for a nice fun game, is a nice touch screen (and a device capable of the software.) I think the BB Torch is a starting point in this regard. And we've seen the leaked CDMA road-map of more touch screen phones. Now all we need is more fun apps, OR the ability to use other platforms apps as well.

    As deRusett said, the BHS sounds neat as well. My spin on it would be...
    Setup the BB Playbook as the "Home Server," and have the phones push e-mail, calender, weather, and whatever else to and from the Playbook/hand-helds using wifi or the BIS.
    I really don't believe it's about the gaming. I believe that the issue is with user interface, customization, scalability, and resources. If I needed a device to just get the basics done, Blackberry does that at the bare bones minimum. If you need more than that, you either need to weight for QNX, or switch to another platform. That its where the majority of frustration is for former Blackberry faithful that have defected that would consider coming back.

    I all honesty, RIM would be wise to segregate there devices. Create one set of devices that are strictly for the business market and one set for consumers. Right now there one size fits all approach does not work.
    BlackStormRising likes this.
    02-06-11 06:34 PM
  12. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    That's the kind of "out of the box" thinking, that could really bring RIM back to be the leader of the pack... Again!
    Now if Only they would allow me to telecommute in as a Development manager, or product designer, life would be good,


    My Blackberry Products would be

    Dual Screen Clam Shell AKA as "Touch of Style"

    Blackberry HOME Server
    Blackberry Desktop Email /Contact Clients ( Built into Desktop Manager)
    Blackberry Contact Management Service *1

    Research in Motion NFC Point of Purchase *2



    *1
    An expansion onto the existing address book, to include nested contacts within specific contacts Notes with time/date/function stamps for the contacts and follow up reminders.
    Nested contacts would be as such, John Smith has 1 wife and 3 kids,
    You Search "Smith" and John Smith as your primary contact number shows up
    > John Smith (person)
    >+/- 4 Sub Contact
    > Bill Smith (person)
    > +/-1 Sub Contact
    > Smith & Weston ( Business)
    >+/- 12 Sub Contacts

    you can select John smith and see the 4 sub contact names, or open the 4 sub contact names and select the contact you want to call/email/txt/bbm etc
    or on the Smith and Weston Side, you can open Smith & Weston and email all sub contacts, from within the click, or view all call logs fro all in that group etc...
    This would be an awesome business feature,

    *2
    Rim should build CreditCard Machines with NCF built in AND a PIN system for secured PIN to PIN money transfer service, with Merchants as well as people, These Credit Card Machines with NCF could interact with the Till system to deliver Digital receipts to the Blackberry saving on paper, and use device PIN numbers for loyalty programs and payment,

    RIM would really have to build some back end infrastructure for this, but it would be an entirely new revenue stream that their competitors are not doing, and would give value added features to carrying a blackberry.
    02-06-11 06:50 PM
  13. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I really don't believe it's about the gaming. I believe that the issue is with user interface, customization, scalability, and resources. If I needed a device to just get the basics done, Blackberry does that at the bare bones minimum. If you need more than that, you either need to weight for QNX, or switch to another platform. That its where the majority of frustration is for former Blackberry faithful that have defected that would consider coming back.

    I all honesty, RIM would be wise to segregate there devices. Create one set of devices that are strictly for the business market and one set for consumers. Right now there one size fits all approach does not work.
    I think the Cost of running the company as 2 company's would be to great. seeing as RIM is still a relatively small company (13,873 employee's)
    RIM very much needs to increase their upgrade cycle from 24-36 months to 12-24 months, that is their problem is they have not had a fast enough upgrade cycle, as all the doom and gloomers have said, many enterprise customers in the US are allowing consumers to bring their own phones into the corporate environment, so breaking into 2 design mentalities, and running as 2 company's would make them heavily compete against themselves as much as other manufacturers.
    02-06-11 06:56 PM
  14. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
    deRussett, stop making such innovative ideas please?
    02-06-11 06:59 PM
  15. howarmat's Avatar
    nice ideas as always. I truly enjoy reading your posts everytime i think
    02-06-11 06:59 PM
  16. K Bear's Avatar
    I think the Cost of running the company as 2 company's would be to great. seeing as RIM is still a relatively small company (13,873 employee's)
    RIM very much needs to increase their upgrade cycle from 24-36 months to 12-24 months, that is their problem is they have not had a fast enough upgrade cycle, as all the doom and gloomers have said, many enterprise customers in the US are allowing consumers to bring their own phones into the corporate environment, so breaking into 2 design mentalities, and running as 2 company's would make them heavily compete against themselves as much as other manufacturers.
    If that is the case, then maybe axing BIS and converting BESX to a consumer product along with improving turn around time and getting QNX out sooner than later can improve RIM's consumer footprint. There's no doubt that RIM is going to continue to be strong in the corporate market as the competition is still playing catch-up or are continuing to face plant. The consumer market is fickle and demands bigger, better, faster, and cost efficient now, not later.
    02-06-11 07:05 PM
  17. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    If that is the case, then maybe axing BIS and converting BESX to a consumer product along with improving turn around time and getting QNX out sooner than later can improve RIM's consumer footprint. There's no doubt that RIM is going to continue to be strong in the corporate market as the competition is still playing catch-up or are continuing to face plant. The consumer market is fickle and demands bigger, better, faster, and cost efficient now, not later.
    BIS is required they generate money from BIS, and allows a infrastructure for RIM's NOC access.

    BESX as a Consumer product is exactly what I was talking about with BHS,
    02-06-11 07:44 PM
  18. BlackStormRising's Avatar
    nice ideas as always. I truly enjoy reading your posts everytime i think
    Ditto that. Got any ideas for embedded wireless devices? I just got back from the gym - the treadmills, ellipticals, spinners and stairmasters all have some sort of primitive programs running on them. I want a Personal trainer app that will let me bridge my BB to the gym equipment and run my customized training program and store my data to my BB. Realistic or too expensive?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-06-11 07:47 PM
  19. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Ditto that. Got any ideas for embedded wireless devices? I just got back from the gym - the treadmills, ellipticals, spinners and stairmasters all have some sort of primitive programs running on them. I want a Personal trainer app that will let me bridge my BB to the gym equipment and run my customized training program and store my data to my BB. Realistic or too expensive?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Very realistic, EXCEPT it would probably come to Market for Apple users before Blackberry users.

    This is HOW I would tackle that market.

    Build Fitness equipment for Cardio and Anaerobic including Nautilus(for lack of other brand name) with Digital receivers to track speeds. reps, all the data one would want,
    I would also build retrofit sensors,
    I'd sell this to Gyms because the gym would be included in the fitness app as a gym with compatible equipment, and the app would have a gym locater built in.

    Realistic Cost for hardware to do this would be approximately $35 per Machine to track the data and send it to the device over USB/30PIN,
    using NCF would probably add $5 to the cost.

    The app could probably sell in various app worlds for $.99 to $2.99 + possibly a yearly subscription to a Tracking website.
    BlackStormRising likes this.
    02-06-11 08:03 PM
  20. Jashley73's Avatar
    I really don't believe it's about the gaming. I believe that the issue is with user interface, customization, scalability, and resources. If I needed a device to just get the basics done, Blackberry does that at the bare bones minimum. If you need more than that, you either need to weight for QNX, or switch to another platform. That its where the majority of frustration is for former Blackberry faithful that have defected that would consider coming back.
    The BB interface as we know it is pretty adaptable. I can't speak for other platforms, though I believe the Apple interface is pretty locked down are they not? Not sure how adaptable the Android interface is.

    What consumers want is flash, and fun, not so much good common sense functionality (though it never hurts.) This is the greatest thing about the iphone/pad/pod community. Consumers want games, widgets, and cool little trinkets.

    Personally, I don't give a hoot about Operating Systems. And I'd be willing to bet that 99.9% of consumers don't either. If 5.0 will run a cool touch screen app, then so be it. If it takes 6.1, or QNX, then fine, bring on QNX. What consumers want are apps, games, features, bells and whistles. We know that better BB touch phones are on the way. What we're missing now is the "There's an app for that" community of support.

    So how do we fix this? Perhaps RIM should get behind the developers financially to build this larger app support. It may cost RIM some money in the short term, but in the long run they would win a lot of consumers looking to make a switch.
    02-06-11 11:22 PM
  21. BlackStormRising's Avatar
    It's coming...maybe even before the sixth resurrection of the Jesus phone.
    02-06-11 11:30 PM
  22. AlexAllen's Avatar
    Cool thread.

    As long as we're philosophizing about the market, I'd like to hear your takes on a question that has occurred to me. Is the app wave cresting? It feels to me like the excitement of games and trackers is wearing off and that consumers are beginning or will shortly begin to look more closely at which phone has the best browser, appearance, camera, perceived quality, etc.

    As an example, I had two friends (one younger) over recently who had each just purchased new Android phones. My wife (a feature phone user looking to upgrade) was watching closely as these friends showed off their new phones. She is a professional and accuustomed to smart phone features, but her most familiar basis of comparison is my Bold. So, what impressed her about the Androids? Not the touchscreens, not the sound effects apps, not the graphics. My wife wasn't impressed by the Androids at all until we started playing youtube videos and she noticed the Androids' slightly better speakers.

    Are consumers becomming jaded to bells and whistles?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-07-11 09:21 AM
  23. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Cool thread.

    As long as we're philosophizing about the market, I'd like to hear your takes on a question that has occurred to me. Is the app wave cresting? It feels to me like the excitement of games and trackers is wearing off and that consumers are beginning or will shortly begin to look more closely at which phone has the best browser, appearance, camera, perceived quality, etc.

    As an example, I had two friends (one younger) over recently who had each just purchased new Android phones. My wife (a feature phone user looking to upgrade) was watching closely as these friends showed off their new phones. She is a professional and accuustomed to smart phone features, but her most familiar basis of comparison is my Bold. So, what impressed her about the Androids? Not the touchscreens, not the sound effects apps, not the graphics. My wife wasn't impressed by the Androids at all until we started playing youtube videos and she noticed the Androids' slightly better speakers.

    Are consumers becomming jaded to bells and whistles?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

    I don't believe apps / games will ever go away, BUT what I have said in past threads is the App libraries reach a point of diminishing returns.

    The difference between having 20k apps and 100k apps is substantial, the difference between having 200k apps and 300k apps is negligible, move forward to 2012, when Theoretically ALL major players will have more than 200k apps,
    Which will remove it as a purchasing decision, The Phone purchases will go back to how they were done in the 90's it will be about form factor, battery life, and price point, and advertising, those who are more educated will look into things like Custom ROM's Custom themes, Hackablity, specific feature compatibilities. but the mass public I don't think will really pay attention to that stuff, apps have been a great shift to the market, but they can't/wont be the selling feature of a phone in the not so distant future.
    howarmat likes this.
    02-07-11 11:15 AM
  24. howarmat's Avatar
    right on deRussett...i couldnt agree more with the difference in number of apps
    02-07-11 11:36 AM
  25. BlackStormRising's Avatar
    right on deRussett...i couldnt agree more with the difference in number of apps
    Agreed. This was overbaked. Quality apps will succeed over quantity.
    One killer must have app can make a huge diff. (Angry birds!) Outside NA it's BBM in many markets, at least among the youth.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-07-11 12:26 PM
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