[danfrancisco]

I was just thinking about this the other day. If there's one thing you can say about the BB fanbase that can be universally applied across every person that makes up the community, it's that we're passionate. Passionate about BBOS, BB10, DroidBerry, pkb, vkb, Blend, Link, BBM, sideloading, stock price, quarterly earnings, hardware supply chain, software licensing model... you name it and there's some level of fire in everyone's belly.

However with that passion comes a ridiculous amount of polarization. As a long time BB diehard, I live in this polarizing bubble and love it for the escape that it provides. I think the reason the passion runs so strong is because we are indeed a part of a very small and niche'ed community that is often misunderstood by the general public for not adopting the more mainstream mobile options (i.e. Apple and Sammy).

So I was wondering if other niche mobile communities live in the same polarizing manner as we BB diehards do? The only other niche market that comes to my mind is the gamer. In the last two years, they've gotten the Razer and now the ROG phone. The difference with that community is that there are different OEMs competing for their dollars where as BB (thanks to TCL, Optiemus and BB Merah Puti) is the only player in town in the pkb game.

Is the gaming community as fractured as ours? There's no real established "gaming phone" brand yet so do people take up arms for their favourite manufacturer? Do they fight like siblings on their forums the way we do on CB?

Commercially, is the gaming phone niche a viable one? Do they sell more or less units than BBs?

Curious to hear your thoughts on this!

[fairmarketvalue]

Sorry but "niche" is not the correct description, if you're considering world-wide. "Microscopic" is more like it. And, like the academic world with which I am familiar, the controversies become "passionate" because there is so little of material significance about which to argue.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Being that there are several companies making "gaming" phones... I expect it is a larger niche than BlackBerry's security or PKB niches.... and they are packing a lot of hardware into those devices. But it's pretty much same hardware on most flagships.... They might have a quicker response display, little more ram or overclocking with help of a cooler. But it's not like that have stacked custom GPUs.

As it stands, I expect some of those manufactures are hoping to just be early and to be around when/if market takes off.

[spARTacus]

... the controversies become "passionate" because there is so little of material significance about which to argue.

Are you saying the subject becomes passionate because the subject matter is small enough to permit people to become opinionated subject matter experts?

Or, are you saying it becomes passionate because the subject matter is so inconsequential and without substance that people need something else to discuss/debate, so focus switches towards being about self generated opinions as opposed to the actual subject?

Posted via CB10 on Z10

[Chuck Finley69]

Are you saying the subject becomes passionate because the subject matter is small enough to permit people to become opinionated subject matter experts?

Or, are you saying it becomes passionate because the subject matter is so inconsequential and without substance that people need something else to discuss/debate, so focus switches towards being about self generated opinions as opposed to the actual subject?

Posted via CB10 on Z10

YES

[katxeus]

So I was wondering if other niche mobile communities live in the same polarizing manner as we BB diehards do? The only other niche market that comes to my mind is the gamer. In the last two years, they've gotten the Razer and now the ROG phone. The difference with that community is that there are different OEMs competing for their dollars where as BB (thanks to TCL, Optiemus and BB Merah Puti) is the only player in town in the pkb game.

Is the gaming community as fractured as ours? There's no real established "gaming phone" brand yet so do people take up arms for their favourite manufacturer? Do they fight like siblings on their forums the way we do on CB?

Commercially, is the gaming phone niche a viable one? Do they sell more or less units than BBs?

Curious to hear your thoughts on this!

Few days ago Engadget did an article on the brief and depressing history of gaming phones.
https://www.engadget.com/amp/2018/06...gaming-phones/
And besides the promising New comers namely the Rog Phone, Razer and Preditor.... the arcticle narrates the rest as depressing trials and failures.... and hence for those communities, they must really feel depressed.

[kvndoom]

the biggest problem with "gaming" phones is that they use pretty much the same hardware as all the other (and cheaper) Android flagships. and they will be outclassed by next year's phones, exactly like any Android flagship today.

And mobile gaming by design keeps the software years behind the hardware, because of how long people keep their phones. Most of the most popular games will run on a phone made 3 or 4 years ago.

[valer466]

Being dislodged from the number 1 position makes BB fans very emotional. Nothing surprising really. If Apple lost mojo and dropped out of the hardware race, you can be rest assured, despite the PR, that their camp will be in much more trauma than any BB fan is today.

[pdr733]

As someone who watched the Windows Mobile community for a couple of years (and having owned a WM phone myself, even for a brief time) I can say that it was as polarized/ing as this forum.

The main difference is perhaps the hatred of Apple and Google ran even higher in the WM/WP circles than in BB circles, in the other hand, this sort feeling of moral superiority (we are serious people, tools not toys, we are creative not content consumer, in general the demonization of the concept of "consumer" per se), which some people in Crackberry do or did subscribe to, was less prevalent in WM boards I visited.
Strong feeling of anti-mainstream/"be different" yes, but the tools-not-toys ideology no.

[idssteve]

Polarization is a pretty natural response to bi-polar influences. Lol.

Like gravity itself, the CB community I joined a decade ago was pretty harmoniously mono-polar. That seemed to change in the months leading up to BB10. Imo. Once introduced, BB10 enthusiasts openly blamed "legacy holdouts" for BB10's failure. Fully ignoring, and even defending, glaring faults in the new and woefully immature platform. Imo.

The polarizing animus directed toward "legacy holdouts" inflicted wounds that fester to this day. Imo. Fwiw.

Do segments of other communities blame each other for product failures?

[tangozulu]

I too live in an everything BlackBerry bubble. As a BlackBerry 10 fan I can't speak to the gaming issue. My sense is gamers need the latest greatest tech to keep some sort of advantage, while myself I want simple function. I want bb10.
In my mind these are 2 polar opposites.

Posted via CB10

[pdr733]

Do segments of other communities blame each other for product failures?

I saw evidence of that in the Windows Mobile boards I visited. Some people, for example blamed other members of that community for not buying into the handsets launched at Autumn 2015 (Lumia 950/950 XL), even though for the price they were going for, they were immature products with an immature OS (first version of Win Mobile 10, which not only lacked some features the earlier WM/WP OSes had, but was quite unstable as well)
In a local forum about mobile phones there was a thread on these phones. I remember a sales rep from T-Mobile in my country commenting that the company dropped these phones like 2 months after launching them on their network, because product returns were abnormally high.

[danfrancisco]

I saw evidence of that in the Windows Mobile boards I visited. Some people, for example blamed other members of that community for not buying into the handsets launched at Autumn 2015 (Lumia 950/950 XL), even though for the price they were going for, they were immature products with an immature OS (first version of Win Mobile 10, which not only lacked some features the earlier WM/WP OSes had, but was quite unstable as well)
In a local forum about mobile phones there was a thread on these phones. I remember a sales rep from T-Mobile in my country commenting that the company dropped these phones like 2 months after launching them on their network, because product returns were abnormally high.

Thanks for sharing this. I wonder if the blame game was happening in the Palm community. Anyone out there who was active in the WebOS forums?

[Tsepz_GP]

Sony/Sony Ericsson have a community a lot like this at Esato, which is a SE fan site, it began dying out slowly in the last 3years, but in that forum you even have people who are part of secret forums that discuss upcoming technologies Sony are working on in Cameras, Batteries etc... for phones, as well as new phone models, the Rumours threads continue to thrive.

As someone who watched the Windows Mobile community for a couple of years (and having owned a WM phone myself, even for a brief time) I can say that it was as polarized/ing as this forum.

The main difference is perhaps the hatred of Apple and Google ran even higher in the WM/WP circles than in BB circles, in the other hand, this sort feeling of moral superiority (we are serious people, tools not toys, we are creative not content consumer, in general the demonization of the concept of "consumer" per se), which some people in Crackberry do or did subscribe to, was less prevalent in WM boards I visited.
Strong feeling of anti-mainstream/"be different" yes, but the tools-not-toys ideology no.

The Symbian community was the same. People took it very VERY hard when it all fell apart and Nokia were sold to Microsoft.

In e Symbian community (I was part of it), hated Android in the beginning and genuinely thought Nokia with Symbian would end up beating Android, which never happened, there were endless debates at All About Symbian, HowardForums, Esato, Symbian-Freak etc etc...

There was a point at some of the more general forums like HoFo, where there were endless debates between WM and Symbian users, I remember the days of the HTC TyTN2 Kaiser vs. Nokia E90, and so on, people discussing which OS offered best Productivity setup in terms of best Push Email solutions, best Hardware for Multitasking and Today Screen setups etc etc...

[danfrancisco]

There was a point at some of the more general forums like HoFo, where there were endless debates between WM and Symbian users, I remember the days of the HTC TyTN2 Kaiser vs. Nokia E90, and so on, people discussing which OS offered best Productivity setup in terms of best Push Email solutions, best Hardware for Multitasking and Today Screen setups etc etc...

I haven't been to Howard Forums in years. Are they still relevant? I checked out their site after reading your post and it looks like it's just a selectively curated tech blog aggregator. I took a peak at the recent reviews on the right hand side of the page and the top three reviews are for the Samsung S7, Huawei Watch and the PRIV. 2015 fresh!

I suppose the true value of HoFo is still in the message boards?

[[email protected]]

For many years before iPhones, it was cool to have a Blackberry. They had an original design, looked classic or sporty, and were a status symbol. Also, on top of the general population, they were considered a very reliable and safe phone that many businesses use to this day. I think Blackberry has had more depth in the market due to the wide range of users from the past. I still know bankers to limo drivers who still use blackberry's as their main form of communication. I do wish like Apple and Sammy, that they would create a smaller one-hand phone again. It seems both Apple and Sammy have create several, or at least 2 sizes. I am a die hard until my Keyone broke - it was the screen. I literally just went out and got an S7. Main reason was it was the size I wanted at the price I could afford. However, I long to have a Blackberry the same size with a pkb. I would be back in a flash!

[Chuck Finley69]

For many years before iPhones, it was cool to have a Blackberry. They had an original design, looked classic or sporty, and were a status symbol. Also, on top of the general population, they were considered a very reliable and safe phone that many businesses use to this day. I think Blackberry has had more depth in the market due to the wide range of users from the past. I still know bankers to limo drivers who still use blackberry's as their main form of communication. I do wish like Apple and Sammy, that they would create a smaller one-hand phone again. It seems both Apple and Sammy have create several, or at least 2 sizes. I am a die hard until my Keyone broke - it was the screen. I literally just went out and got an S7. Main reason was it was the size I wanted at the price I could afford. However, I long to have a Blackberry the same size with a pkb. I would be back in a flash!

Basically, TCL needs to sell a minimum quantity of single device to be profitable. The KEYone and Key2 are sized to reach maximum potential of demand of prospective buyers.

[drobbie]

BlackBerry users need to accept that handsets are not important to the company anymore. Glory days are gone forever.

Posted via CB10

[Chuck Finley69]

BlackBerry users need to accept that handsets are not important to the company anymore. Glory days are gone forever.

Posted via CB10

Glory days have been gone since point somewhere between Android/IOS releases to BB10 release. The mystique of BB was partly in the executive image before Android/IOS gave everyone a smartphone.

[valer466]

Glory days have been gone since point somewhere between Android/IOS releases to BB10 release. The mystique of BB was partly in the executive image before Android/IOS gave everyone a smartphone.

A smartphone with free email and immersive camera and app experiences

[Bbnivende]

Basically, TCL needs to sell a minimum quantity of single device to be profitable. The KEYone and Key2 are sized to reach maximum potential of demand of prospective buyers.

Their number one goal should have been to make simple reliable communication devices.

[Chuck Finley69]

Their number one goal should have been to make simple reliable communication devices.

For a profit. KEYone and Key2 seem to be following this strategy.

[Bbnivende]

For a profit. KEYone and Key2 seem to be following this strategy.

Time will tell but early indications are that reliability maybe a problem. The BlackBerry software other than security just adds another layer of complexity as well.

[Chuck Finley69]

Time will tell but early indications are that reliability maybe a problem. The BlackBerry software other than security just adds another layer of complexity as well.

We have no real idea yet. Since BBMo/TCL is releasing only their second PKB device, I’d wait until it’s seriously released between Canada and USA before any real judgement. The only real concern right now is the lack of any USA carriers. This device will be DOA without the AT&T or Verizon.

[stlabrat]

"BlackBerry users need to accept that handsets are not important to the company anymore. Glory days are gone forever. "
the SAF is still easiest $ chen can collect every month (he is going to support it as long as corp market is there - according to his interview with BNN). As for similar communities, appleinsider.com as example. Those communities set up to serve a purpose-establish fan based marketing - just read Guy Kawasaki's book "how to drive your competitor crazy"... every company got one... now TCL/BBMo jump in to the game of CB. (Mi 6 from xiaomi is intrest phone lately, polar opposite to the BB - can't see business guy/gal holding Mi6... but I could be wrong... I did saw Japanese business men holding huge toy from pachinco... you never know the asia market).