12-24-11 09:14 AM
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  1. tmelon's Avatar
    So it has been confirmed that it will be at least another year until the first BB10 super phones come out. OS7 was an obvious improvement over OS6, but from many reviews, the interface is still not up to par with Android/iOS/WP. As of now there are no more rumored BB devices until BB10 and there's a year or possibly more until then, which is much longer than any period between releases in the past. The obvious thing to do is to release a software update between now and then to keep people satisfied.

    My question is:

    Will RIM be able to remain relevant with the OS7 device lineup for a whole year?
    If they were to release a BB7.5, what could it include to keep people satisfied for another year?
    12-15-11 10:29 PM
  2. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    in the US market it will be a challenge for RIM to keep mindshare in the US until 2012,

    but globally they will use OS7 to remain profitable, and come back hard HOPEFULLY with BB10 in the North American market jumping on the LTE bandwagon and pushing some good specs, I really hope they push some good specs,

    OS7 devices are pretty good, OS7.1 leak is a vast improvement over OS7.0 if they can improve further on OS7.1 they can keep a tiny bit of relevance with consumers, and BES Fusion ensures they retain some foothold into the Medium/Large businesses who would have considered closing out BES completely even though it offered more features than Good technologies
    the_sleuth likes this.
    12-15-11 10:34 PM
  3. palmless's Avatar

    My question is:

    Will RIM be able to remain relevant with the OS7 device lineup for a whole year?
    If they were to release a BB7.5, what could it include to keep people satisfied for another year?
    I'll agree with how I read deRusett's detailed response, between the lines:

    No chance.
    Caymancroc likes this.
    12-15-11 10:36 PM
  4. anon(2325196)'s Avatar
    os 7 is more than enough

    it's a mental thing now, "mass consumption" for some reason is running rim into the ground with all these "spoiled brats" demanding more of stuff that is unnecessary

    "century of the self" in full effect ya'll

    there is nothing wrong with os 7.1 or the playbook or rim or mike and jim, or anything, stop

    lol - peace
    nyplaya610 and llllBULLSEYE like this.
    12-15-11 10:40 PM
  5. llllBULLSEYE's Avatar
    Im happy with my OS 7 and will patiently wait for BB10
    maybe do a switch from my 9810 to a 9900 later down the line.
    to sum it up Americans are NEVER SATISFIED they want more.
    people just got their hands on iphone4s now they are impatiently
    waiting for iphone5.
    What sucks is that all this pressure is gonna make RIM rush
    these phones and that sucks for someone like me who's willing
    to wait for a great finished product.
    12-15-11 10:54 PM
  6. berklon's Avatar
    OS7 isn't enough... the number of people running in the other direction is a huge indicator.

    OS7 is fine for 3+ years ago... but to rely on it now and for another year is ridiculous.

    RIM sat on their butts doing nothing for a long time and now they're paying dearly for it.
    12-15-11 10:57 PM
  7. palmless's Avatar
    Henry Ford's story comes to mind. He squandered his company's lead, insisting that new models were not needed. He insisted that every car have a high roof that allowed him to be seated without remove his hat. GM took away his market share and kept it for decades, simply because he refused to believe that his company should react to the demands of the market.

    Don't know why I thought of him...
    12-15-11 11:00 PM
  8. tmelon's Avatar
    Interesting seeing the different sides. The way I see it, people who have an OS7 device might be satisfied for another year, but people looking for a Blackberry upgrade or currently using another platform won't see a reason to switch to BlackBerry knowing that these OS7 devices will be EOL'd in the coming year.
    BoldtotheMax and kraski like this.
    12-15-11 11:15 PM
  9. pfe1223's Avatar
    I've made this comment before, but it bears repeating. Nokia is keeping their Symbian users happy by releasing much needed updates during their transition. Symbian^3 to the Anna update brought some minor cosmetic changes, but major changes under the hood. Anna to Belle is going to be a massive change to makes an "outdated" OS modern again. RIM is going to need to do something similar to keep their customers happy during this transition.
    12-15-11 11:28 PM
  10. app_Developer's Avatar
    I've made this comment before, but it bears repeating. Nokia is keeping their Symbian users happy by releasing much needed updates during their transition. Symbian^3 to the Anna update brought some minor cosmetic changes, but major changes under the hood. Anna to Belle is going to be a massive change to makes an "outdated" OS modern again. RIM is going to need to do something similar to keep their customers happy during this transition.
    But doesn't Nokia plan to keep Symbian alongside Windows? My understanding is that RIMM plans to retire OS7 in a year, right?

    Nokia has a huge development group under contract (transitioning their own group). And they don't have to develop Windows Phone 7. Outside of a few customizations and the maps app, most of the OS and all the dev tools and frameworks are done by Microsoft, so of course Nokia can devote attention to Symbian. On the other hand, RIMM is doing this alone. Being such a small development team, and having to build a whole OS, UI framework, and dev tools on top of what is just a raw kernel (QNX), can they really afford to risk BB10 by distracting themselves with OS7 updates?
    Last edited by app_Developer; 12-15-11 at 11:47 PM.
    12-15-11 11:42 PM
  11. anthogag's Avatar
    A lot of people forget about BB in the US. Creative marketing should do some good here.

    I believe people in the US like choice and will look-at BlackBerry if exposed to BB advertising - hit them hard
    12-15-11 11:45 PM
  12. llllBULLSEYE's Avatar
    I look forward to the upcoming blackberry's commercials. Might not
    be enough for consumers to switch, but I ll enjoy them lol.
    Im tire of seen 20 iphone4s like 1,000 window7 and 0 RIM commercials every night.
    Apple does good Advertising for sure I cant argue with that
    and very catchy
    12-15-11 11:57 PM
  13. Brianflys's Avatar
    Of course it will remain relevant. But not without good marketing. Lots of great products around that you never heard of. Yet, how many people know about the Snuggie?

    So Jim and Mike need to start ASAP on that advertising campaign we recommended. Get those hot celebs from the weekly Crackberry celeb listing to promote the BB.

    It's that easy!!
    12-16-11 12:05 AM
  14. SaMaster14's Avatar
    I think it will, especially if the Theme Builder comes out soon (come on RIM...). The customization of BB is great and I personally like the OS. The higher RAM and faster processor keep my 9930 running quickly and the keyboard is the best, hands down.

    I've played with and used many Android phones and they just aren't my thing. The whole OS can get annoying at times, and when my 9930 was nuked and I was waiting for a new one (thats another problem...) I had to use my iPad and iPod touch as my main devices and iOS just didn't hold up to what I was used to with BB. Email is so much easier on the Bold and the universal message app is amazing (no other device I know of has ALL of your notifications in one place)... LED light/notification screen, today screen (Fancy Widgets) is perfect.

    The only thing missing for me are good custom themes. I have all the apps I would need on a phone of my 9930 and all the games I want are on my iPad/iPod...
    12-16-11 12:05 AM
  15. herculesinwyoming's Avatar
    i went to my local AT&T store 50 dollars for a new torch or 50 dollars for a android phone with dual core processor hdmi out etc etc. so i see why people jump ship from bb
    anon1727506 and starman011 like this.
    12-16-11 12:09 AM
  16. Moonbase0ne's Avatar
    In the US? NO. And right now i think investors are more concerned with the US?


    War Is All We Know
    12-16-11 12:12 AM
  17. BBOttawa's Avatar
    Yes, with 7.1 RIM is very competitive with iOS and Android, and has a better keyboard and messaging/corporate manageability.

    OS 7.1 can do everything the competition can do, but can do it smoother than laggy Android phones, and with BBM hit a market that the others do not have. Heck the browser on OS7 is faster than almost every Android phone and neck and neck with the iPhone, but no one knows about it.

    If Android or iOS ever gets a good physical keyboard and an efficient messaging app I may switch, but until then, no.
    12-16-11 12:20 AM
  18. louzer's Avatar
    All I can say is here we go again. Almost exactly a year ago, RIM was supposed to be releasing the Playbook. People kept saying that RIM better act quick because the iPad 2 was right around the corner. Delay after delay and then they ended up having to release it a month after the iPad 2. And we all know how the US consumer market reacted.

    Now, we're looking at BB10 devices about a year from now with who knows what else scheduled for the same time. Quad-core Androids, iPhone4.5, Windows 8 phones?

    All I can say is that after I picked my jaw up from off the ground after hearing that the general date had been pushed out by around 9 months, it occurred to me that maybe it's not a bad idea to wait.

    If OS2 for the Playbook is really nice, there will, at least, be something tangible that RIM can point to with regard to what to expect from the new line of phones. I heard someone joking recently about upcoming quad-core phones saying that they'll be amazing for the 2 hours of use you'll be able to get based on battery consumption. If this new chip that RIM is waiting on is as fast but, more importantly, as battery efficient as they alluded to, it might just become a savior.

    It's not OS7 that needs to remain relevant. It's BB10. With a kick-a$$ Playbook OS, my OS 6 phone will still be relevant.
    12-16-11 12:56 AM
  19. pfe1223's Avatar
    But doesn't Nokia plan to keep Symbian alongside Windows? My understanding is that RIMM plans to retire OS7 in a year, right?

    Nokia has a huge development group under contract (transitioning their own group). And they don't have to develop Windows Phone 7. Outside of a few customizations and the maps app, most of the OS and all the dev tools and frameworks are done by Microsoft, so of course Nokia can devote attention to Symbian. On the other hand, RIMM is doing this alone. Being such a small development team, and having to build a whole OS, UI framework, and dev tools on top of what is just a raw kernel (QNX), can they really afford to risk BB10 by distracting themselves with OS7 updates?
    Symbian has already been pulled from markets like the US because it has never sold well there. New Symbian devices and OS updates are rolling out, and will be supported until 2016. I have no idea what RIM plans on doing with BBOS.

    You are right, Nokia had a huge head start on making their transition to WP. They were also able to reuse the N9 chassis (with a few modifications) to create their "high end" WP device. Nokia Maps and Drive already existed on Symbian so they just had to port it over. My Nokia comparison is not perfect, but let me see if I can clarify my feelings so that they are a little more inline with what some BB owners might be feeling.

    When the N8 came out, it was the flagship device from Nokia, possessing an iconic feature (the camera) that no other phone has yet to best. All other phones were derivatives of the same internals like CPU, GPU, RAM, etc. The things that differentiated the phones were screen size, keyboard, camera, and the like. Moreover, the N8 might have been the best ever phone from Nokia, but it slightly lagged the competition, which was evolving at a faster pace them. It wasn't long before the N8 was more than "slightly" behind iOS and Android; it was pretty glaring. RIM is in a very similar situation. The 9900 is the best ever BlackBerry with a keyboard that in a class of its own. But it cannot perform at the level of some Android devices and the 4S. The BB portfolio is rounded out with "variations on a theme," that is same internals with a different form factor.

    My N8 was frustratingly clunky and outdated compared to other phones. While there are several things that I love about it, the day to day use was not as smooth and as efficient as other phones. If it weren't for the Anna update, I probably would have sold the thing on CL. The point is, Anna gave me a new outlook on the N8. Suddenly it wasn't so bad after all. Annoyances were addressed, strengths like the camera were improved, etc. I was excited to use the "old" and "outdated" phone. The Belle update has me even more excited. I think if OS7 is to remain relevant in this time of transition, then RIM has to keep current BB owners happy and excited to use their phones until the transition is complete. For reasons you stated above, a Belle-like update (drastic reworking of UI and under the hood mechanics) probably isn't in the cards. But believe me, Symbian users were and are excited/thankful for the Anna update.
    sleepngbear likes this.
    12-16-11 08:58 AM
  20. sleepngbear's Avatar
    BB7 devices should be enough to pacify most current BB users and fans, but it isn't likely to win over any converts from other platforms. I think 2012 is going to be a long, slow, painful bleed for RIM. iOs and Android are going to keep doing what they do, which means RIM's relevance will continue to deteriorate. But they should still have a measurable presence, so they certainly won't disappear completely. Regular updates and added features for current phones (such as NFC) and a little advertising sure wouldn't hurt the cause.

    The big question in my mind is what kind of impact Nokia's WP phones will have. If and how quickly they gain traction will dictate to a significant degree how much -- or how little -- of RIM is left by the time BB10 devices are released.
    12-16-11 10:08 AM
  21. GingerSnapsBack's Avatar
    A lot of people forget about BB in the US. Creative marketing should do some good here.

    I believe people in the US like choice and will look-at BlackBerry if exposed to BB advertising - hit them hard
    It's gonna take a **** of a lot more than a few funny TV spots with celebrities to bring back people to a BB. They've got to be able to compete on ALL levels, not just the internal specs. Your average user doesn't care about quad core or dual core. Your average user wants apps. BB can't compete against the > 500K apps in the iOS App store.

    ANow, we're looking at BB10 devices about a year from now with who knows what else scheduled for the same time. Quad-core Androids, iPhone4.5, Windows 8 phones?
    IMO iPhone4.5 is the iPhone4s. iPhone5 is rumored to be released October 2012. We'll see.
    12-16-11 10:18 AM
  22. lynntarbox's Avatar
    BB7 devices should be enough to pacify most current BB users and fans, but it isn't likely to win over any converts from other platforms. I think 2012 is going to be a long, slow, painful bleed for RIM. iOs and Android are going to keep doing what they do, which means RIM's relevance will continue to deteriorate. But they should still have a measurable presence, so they certainly won't disappear completely. Regular updates and added features for current phones (such as NFC) and a little advertising sure wouldn't hurt the cause.

    The big question in my mind is what kind of impact Nokia's WP phones will have. If and how quickly they gain traction will dictate to a significant degree how much -- or how little -- of RIM is left by the time BB10 devices are released.
    from a developers point, windows phones have already taken over. there is pretty much next to NO interest in QNX(sorry, bb10) development at all in the mobile world at all. looking at statistics from various cross platform mobile dev tools, windows phone 7 interest is actually higher than QNX.
    12-16-11 10:18 AM
  23. SoCalRedbird's Avatar
    Here we go again...

    The race for smartphone dominance seems to largely be of perception rather than of a platform's capability and performance. That said, RIM will again find themselves in a deep hole with the media and consumers alike. They cannot afford that after the past two years' "swings and misses."

    Most would have agreed a couple days ago that the release of BB10 devices had to be flawless to change that perception. Pushing this release to the end of 2012? Absolutely ridiculous (and par for the course given OS7 and PB release dates). They've already botched BB10.

    If the real reason is to wait for LTE, shame on RIM. Nobody I know (i.e. the general public) could tell you the difference between 3g, 4g, LTE, H+, et. al.) But they can tell you that "RIM is screwed beyond repair from what I've heard." Pushing back this release invites more and more of that mindset to exist. The risk for opening up BB10 to LTE is definitely not worth the reward.

    My message to RIM: Release a goddamn smartphone with a QNX operation system soon, toss in a front-facing camera, and throw in some gadgetry for cosmetic appeal and the younger generation. Then market the absolute holy **** out of it. (p.s. Lay off the integration stuff for awhile. I've got dozens of friends with smartphones and none with a BlackBerry anymore. Your "integration" once again misses the consumer marketplace.)

    Apologies for the rant, but RIM is capable of more. I believe in this company, but they seem insistent on digging their own grave.
    starman011 likes this.
    12-16-11 10:41 AM
  24. sleepngbear's Avatar
    from a developers point, windows phones have already taken over. there is pretty much next to NO interest in QNX(sorry, bb10) development at all in the mobile world at all. looking at statistics from various cross platform mobile dev tools, windows phone 7 interest is actually higher than QNX.
    True, but consumers so far seem to be thumbing their noses at WP. Both MS (at least in the mobile space)and Nokia have some image issues to overcome (not to suggest that RIM doesn't!). So I still think how the Nokia WP phones perform will have a bigger impact on RIM in 2012.
    12-16-11 10:53 AM
  25. GingerSnapsBack's Avatar

    Apologies for the rant, but RIM is capable of more. I believe in this company, but they seem insistent on digging their own grave.
    And giving a course on Self Implosion: 101.
    12-16-11 10:56 AM
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