[kbz1960]

I agree, and that is RIM's problem in a nutshell. Blackberry has now become so irrelevent that I believe QNX will be the nail in the coffin if they continue to push this failed and unsupported operating system. The best they can do now is release phones running the Android or Windows OS and get the Blackberry name back on the streets and develop a buzz. As much as we love our BB's, the smartphone consumer wants a supported OS and solid eco system, RIM is currently is not in the position to offer either of those with QNX.

I guess if everyone thought the same thing about apple products that were considered a fail early on we would have no apple.

It's going to be a continued rough road for awhile yet because there are many more that want a phone to replace their computers with than people that want a phone that can do many computer like operations. All we can do is see what happens.

I don't really understand all of this my phone has to have hdmi out and everything else a real computer is used for unless they want to only have a phone and no other computers in their life. But like they say to each their own.

[palmless]

Where do you come up with this crap.

By observing everything that has happened so far and expecting more of the same.

[rcheung135]

I think OS7 still has a lot of potential to be polished. Give me my themes >:| and better battery life.

[Clinto]

I don't think that RIM will remain "relevant" in 2012 in the U.S. Market; but I do think that they will survive.
I think they will continue to grow in the international market and probably make another $2 Billion in 2012 just like they did in 2011. Then when BB10 is finally released, (if it can compete with the i-phone 5 and new Androids) and they market it properly; I think RIM will become relevant again. People like to root for the underdog (just look at the Cubs ) and if BB10 is indeed good, it will make for a good come back story and I think people will buy it.

[blackberry-unlocking710]

I also agree with the positive feedback about the OS7 Blackberry devices..
It takes some time to release stable OS versions and the Blackberry 9790, 9900 and the 9860 are great phone... I'm sure that if people would try them they will love them..

[blackberry-unlocking710]

I also agree with the positive feedback about the OS7 Blackberry devices..
It takes some time to release stable OS versions and the Blackberry 9790, 9900 and the 9860 are great phone... I'm sure that if people would try them they will love them..

[Damien_Eternal]

OS7 may not do much of any good for RIM, but if this BB10 with QNX comes out with what was promised, even if late, they will come back with it. RIM might end up kinda flopping and gasping for air for a while, but I believe they will come back in due time.

[TgeekB]

The Stock price reflects market opinions of performance and mind share of the public, not the quality of a product or how a company is running
a 75% stock decline with a 35% growth? that relates how?


I really don't see how the 9930 + PlayBook are becoming irrelevant unless you subscribe to the notion that unless you don't have the latest and greatest you are irrelevant, and thus upgrade your car/computer/TV/coffee make on 18-24 month intervals

I don't suspect RIM to see a stock recovery until they can do right by the carriers, and the carriers do right by RIM selling BlackBerry's in North America, For that to happen RIM can't release a half product, and LTE is the future, Phones by the majority of users are purchased with 2-3 year's in mind, launching a NONE LTE flagship in 2012, would give RIM more of a market impression of being out of date, and they can't afford to keep that mind share, investors follow far more than consumers do.

It's refreshing to hear someone talk sense. Just because RIM is no longer #1 in the smartphone market doesn't mean they are irrelevant or going out of business tomorrow. JMHO.

[HybridGT]

no need for long paragrahphs
It just takes one word:
No

[the_sleuth]

Sorry, I don't buy it. Raw kernel my a$$. It's here--PB 2.0 beta just needs refinement.

Slap it on a dual core HSPA+ phone and release it to the masses as an unlocked phone in Europe, Asia, N & S America. Fait accompli.

But doesn't Nokia plan to keep Symbian alongside Windows? My understanding is that RIMM plans to retire OS7 in a year, right?

Nokia has a huge development group under contract (transitioning their own group). And they don't have to develop Windows Phone 7. Outside of a few customizations and the maps app, most of the OS and all the dev tools and frameworks are done by Microsoft, so of course Nokia can devote attention to Symbian. On the other hand, RIMM is doing this alone. Being such a small development team, and having to build a whole OS, UI framework, and dev tools on top of what is just a raw kernel (QNX), can they really afford to risk BB10 by distracting themselves with OS7 updates?

[kbz1960]

Doesn't RIM have totally different teams working on legacy OS and QNX or whatever they are going to call it?

[anthogag]

Great advertising, a great OS2 update with great reviews, more great apps for pb, new BB services like BB Movie, more pb attention grabbing sales, BB10 phones in July,...RIM could be popular again in the US...this is the time for believers...the negative ninnies are irrelevant, not BB

[southlander]

Marketing alone cannot make people want a product that is not competitive (ie., in some respects, the PlayBook). But what it can do is fix some mis-perceptions. I think the OS 7 phones are on par with *any* device, unless someone is really hung up on app count. For most users that message, want Facebook, Twitter, etc., OS 7 is plenty fast, and plenty capable. The browser is the same webkit browser as the others. The AT&T BB Torch ad that came out recently is a good example of how to advertise this stuff correctly.

So yes I think OS 7 is enough given that RIM is doing a marketing push. But it depends on the marketing. Focus on speed, the big name apps, the keyboard, and battery life. Openly mock the shortcomings of the the competition in regards to keyboard and battery (the big ones).

One other thing I find interesting is that Hollywood is so wrapped up in BlackBerry use and yet RIM seems to make little hay of this in the US. Perhaps they could play that up better. Interesting that the US movie industry is so successful around the world and BlackBerrys are so highly regarded in other countries.

[emirozmen]

If 9900 had amazing battery life and some more apps, it definitely would. But now that it doesn't, I really don't know.

[Moonbase0ne]

I really don't see the latest batch of phones keeping the publics interest(except hardcore/diehard RIM fans) for another 10+ months


War Is All We Know

[avt123]

I really don't see the latest batch of phones keeping the publics interest(except hardcore/diehard RIM fans) for another 10+ months


War Is All We Know

Yep. Definitely not in the U.S. market.

[eric89074]

By the time BB10 phones are going to be released juggernaut iPhone 5 will be all the news. BB is a dying brand in the US and is growing in other countries only because they're much cheaper to own than iPhones.

[MobilePhanatic]

I don't think the current lineup will attract many new US customers, the Torch especially may just be enough to keep some current users from fleeing to the top of the line Androids and IPhones. Touchscreen is very sought after and RIM has to step it up in that area, as much as I like the torch it lags compared to the competition.

[tmelon]

By the time BB10 phones are going to be released juggernaut iPhone 5 will be all the news. BB is a dying brand in the US and is growing in other countries only because they're much cheaper to own than iPhones.

That's a good point. The BB10 devices are right around the time of the iPhone 5 which has a 90% chance of a complete redesign from what I've heard. Definitely not the best time for a release.

[Moonbase0ne]

That's a good point. The BB10 devices are right around the time of the iPhone 5 which has a 90% chance of a complete redesign from what I've heard. Definitely not the best time for a release.

I was thinking no one knows if the iPhone 5 or whatever they call it will be coming out early summer like it usually does or Octoberish like the 4S, which was delayed because of Siri.




War Is All We Know

[crackcookie]

Yes and no.

The US market will lose a lot of BB to other companies. but, OS 7 still works...

They do need to speed the process up, people want to have the amazing blackberry utility(email, battery, keyboard) with the power and apps of everything else.

People use to say, I dont use my bb for much so Im cool with it, but after seeing what the iphone can do, people expect more from their phones, so now OS 7 is dated, and BB10 will probably feel dated to.

We know how RIM isn't cutting edge, putting in features to be semi competitive in Feb, but releasing a product in Oct, will be like releasing a touch screen OS 5 device.

[Angelo_Campher]

Not a chance in ****. This Java OS is well and trully dead. They will continue to bleed market share until they can deliver a complete package aimed at both the enterprise and the consumer market.

Also, they don't have the luxury of taking their time to get things right as Apple and Google have while at the same time gathering developer support. These are really hard times for RIM but should they pull it off there is no reason why they cannot reach great heights again.

They are going to have to release an OS update in the short term as I see no reason why the current hardware cannot run a scaled down version of the PlayBook OS, maybe without the Android player.

[belfastdispatcher]

Not a chance in ****. This Java OS is well and trully dead. They will continue to bleed market share until they can deliver a complete package aimed at both the enterprise and the consumer market.

Also, they don't have the luxury of taking their time to get things right as Apple and Google have while at the same time gathering developer support. These are really hard times for RIM but should they pull it off there is no reason why they cannot reach great heights again.

They are going to have to release an OS update in the short term as I see no reason why the current hardware cannot run a scaled down version of the PlayBook OS, maybe without the Android player.

On the other hand the shipped 14 million of BBOS devices last quarter and added 5 million new subscribers, up to 75 million now. How is that NOT relevant?

Some people on this forum and in US in general might be waiting for BB10 but most people are buying BBOS devices NOW.

As a user I like that they don't explode with more users then that every quarter, think of the stress that would put on the NOC.

[Angelo_Campher]

On the other hand the shipped 14 million of BBOS devices last quarter and added 5 million new subscribers, up to 75 million now. How is that NOT relevant?

Some people on this forum and in US in general might be waiting for BB10 but most people are buying BBOS devices NOW.

As a user I like that they don't explode with more users then that every quarter, think of the stress that would put on the NOC.

Of those shipped devices, how many made their way into the hands of the consumer and more importantly how many were returned?

Also, of the 75 million subscribers, how many of them are active and how many are using 8520 and 9300's?

I'm really holding thumbs for RIM to succeed, as I can't imagine using another device day to day, but they have a limited time scale now which has come about from their meandering along which makes it hard for me to feel sorry for them. That said, they are not the first corporation to find themselves in this position and they certainly won't be the last.

[jivegirl14]

So it has been confirmed that it will be at least another year until the first BB10 super phones come out. OS7 was an obvious improvement over OS6, but from many reviews, the interface is still not up to par with Android/iOS/WP. As of now there are no more rumored BB devices until BB10 and there's a year or possibly more until then, which is much longer than any period between releases in the past. The obvious thing to do is to release a software update between now and then to keep people satisfied.

My question is:

Will RIM be able to remain relevant with the OS7 device lineup for a whole year?
If they were to release a BB7.5, what could it include to keep people satisfied for another year?

I really do hope so because I want them to continue to succeed. But truth to tell I am less sure now.

This is technology, fast-paced, where 6 months is like 3 years in tech years and with (like it or not) increasingly demanding consumers. You simply cannot wait that long and not expect to be overtaken.
If there was a change at the top I'd be a little more confident and I suspect the market would be too. But their last earnings call wasn't encouraging. If they are to remain relevant they have their work cut out...and it starts at the top.

I have found that most people have not even tried the new Qwerty and Touchscreen Bold (9900/9930), by far the best phone they've made in my opinion and arguably one of the best phones on the market today.

When I show people mine they are amazed...they never even knew it existed. Most consumers don't follow the forums they are influenced by what they see/hear advertised.