[trsbbs]

So it has been confirmed that it will be at least another year until the first BB10 super phones come out. OS7 was an obvious improvement over OS6, but from many reviews, the interface is still not up to par with Android/iOS/WP. As of now there are no more rumored BB devices until BB10 and there's a year or possibly more until then, which is much longer than any period between releases in the past. The obvious thing to do is to release a software update between now and then to keep people satisfied.



My question is:



Will RIM be able to remain relevant with the OS7 device lineup for a whole year?

If they were to release a BB7.5, what could it include to keep people satisfied for another year?

No. They will start to see their non-US sales start to drop. That combined with with what I am sure will be further delays, law suits, board unrest and customer defections will result in RIM being a "once was leader" now lost.


Tim

Sent from my BlackBerry.

[MrszBerry]

Nope

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 2 using Tapatalk

[pfe1223]

True, but consumers so far seem to be thumbing their noses at WP. Both MS (at least in the mobile space)and Nokia have some image issues to overcome (not to suggest that RIM doesn't!). So I still think how the Nokia WP phones perform will have a bigger impact on RIM in 2012.

I will say this in favor of WP7, the tide is turning towards a positive note. Here are some bloggers/articles of note to support WP7:

NOTE: The forum software won't let me put in links for the below items, but I'm not making this up.

Noah Kravitz from Techno Buffalo has ditched his iPhone for WP7 (HTC Titan).

The CNET UK editor has WP7 over his iPhone.

PC World has Windows Phone as one of the pieces of technology in 2012.

So how did Microsoft find itself in this position? Well, it is a new spin on a rather static UI (rows of icons with folders). With Mango, Windows Phone finally got the software to be mostly feature complete. They found a hardware partner (Nokia) who is desperate to get back to relevance. In addition to Nokia, HTC has made some very nice devices that would attract a lot more people than generation 1 devices.

BBX will have a new, different UI. The PlayBook has been the test bed for QNX, so BBX should be feature complete on launch. RIM is desperate to be relevant, so perhaps they will have some show stopping designs. The only difference is time. MS has been at this for awhile. RIM is just beginning.

[palmless]

RIM is just beginning.

If this is true, the top forty people at RIM should be fired with salary and other comp clawed back to 2008.

[pfe1223]

If this is true, the top forty people at RIM should be fired with salary and other comp clawed back to 2008.

When I said RIM is just beginning, I meant the process in which they transition to a radically different platform. I could see how what I wrote might seem very positive (which I am not, nor am I resigned to RIM's demise). Perhaps I was unfair in my previous post. The PlayBook is already out, and they are prepping a major update. PlayBook OS 2.0 is akin to the NoDo update MS released prior to Mango. So RIM isn't "just beginning", but it is still early in the transition process.

[RCCollins]

OS 7 is on par with with other devices from 2008-9.

[Laura Knotek]

BB7 devices should be enough to pacify most current BB users and fans, but it isn't likely to win over any converts from other platforms. I think 2012 is going to be a long, slow, painful bleed for RIM. iOs and Android are going to keep doing what they do, which means RIM's relevance will continue to deteriorate. But they should still have a measurable presence, so they certainly won't disappear completely. Regular updates and added features for current phones (such as NFC) and a little advertising sure wouldn't hurt the cause.

The big question in my mind is what kind of impact Nokia's WP phones will have. If and how quickly they gain traction will dictate to a significant degree how much -- or how little -- of RIM is left by the time BB10 devices are released.

That is a good question. I used Nokia (with Symbian) prior to BlackBerry. The hardware was great.

I will seriously look into the new Nokia Windows Phones, especially since Windows Phone already has many apps that are unavailable for BlackBerry, and Microsoft is attracting developers.

I've had an upgrade since June, do not wish to wait an entire year and use the 9700 until then, and have concerns about the quality of OS7 (bricking issues which did not even exist on buggy Storm).

I also have concerns that BB10 will not get any future support if RIM goes out of business or gets bought out.

[sleepngbear]

OS 7 is on par with with other devices from 2008-9.

Really? What devices in 2009-9 had 1.2ghz processors, were HSPA+ capable, or had NFC?

[RCCollins]

Really? What devices in 2009-9 had 1.2ghz processors, were HSPA+ capable, or had NFC?

The App Store form 2009 is leaps and bounds better than App World is today, same goes for the iOS SDK, hardware acceleration was there from the start on iOS. The overall user experience and functionality was better in 2009 on iOS and Android was only a half step behind.

[FMB8900]

I think it is. Even though aggressive marketing is NOT the only thing that will save the company... it will help TREMENDOUSLY. I know plenty of people who would definitely consider purchasing a BB OS7 device, a BB PlayBook, or an awesome combination of the two! If they only knew some of these products existed...

[Davec1234]

Consumers have to choose.
Wait a year for a BB.
Try something else.
No way would I wait a year.
Basically, RIM just shot themselves in the foot yet again. This self inflicted wound may be mortal.

[kb5zht]

RIM sat on their butts doing nothing for a long time and now they're paying dearly for it.

Thats it in a nutshell.

What's worse is that dumb and dumber were warned for those same years to wake up and start competing. They arrogantly thumbed their noses and walked away.

Now their stock is in a tailspin, customers are abandoning them in droves and their once staple and diehard sources of business arent staying loyal to them and going iOS/android.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Pilchard]

A lot of it has to do with trajectory and momentum. RIM has a downward trajectory and has lost momentum. They are too slow releasing new handsets and the competition is out competing them. Sad, but true.

[PineappleUnderTheSea]

What I find problematic is the following, which could affect sales until BBX is released:
(1) the new hires where I work don't care about Blackberries, to them they are low end phones. Even though they get a free Blackberry for work, they have their own personal phone which is either iPhone or Android.
(2) in the last 2 years or so, my colleagues have begun complaining about their BB: the number one is the awfully slow browser, limited apps, that they have to be re-booted in some cases when you do install an app, etc. This complaining is only because they have seen what iPhone or Android has to offer, and its better than the OS5 and OS6 devices our work offers (we just started offering OS7 devices, so no feedback there).

So BBs have this negative perception at work, and I don't think it's going to change in 2012. By the time the BBX devices are released, our work will likely have approved iPhones and maybe Androids. And if they do, I know what the employees are going to choose.

Not good.

[RCCollins]

RIMs problem is that they are aiming at the target (iPhone/iPad) and not at where the target will be. In 2013 when they release the QNX "super phone" it will be a buggy version of the iPhone 4s without the app ecosystem, the industry will have moved on to the next big thing.

[jlarkins08]

I personally think that RIM just dug they're own grave!! Late 2012 is way to far away to try to come back and claim some steam in the smartphone market.. Just my opinion..


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

[dancingbear]

Here we go again...

The race for smartphone dominance seems to largely be of perception rather than of a platform's capability and performance. That said, RIM will again find themselves in a deep hole with the media and consumers alike. They cannot afford that after the past two years' "swings and misses."

Most would have agreed a couple days ago that the release of BB10 devices had to be flawless to change that perception. Pushing this release to the end of 2012? Absolutely ridiculous (and par for the course given OS7 and PB release dates). They've already botched BB10.

If the real reason is to wait for LTE, shame on RIM. Nobody I know (i.e. the general public) could tell you the difference between 3g, 4g, LTE, H+, et. al.) But they can tell you that "RIM is screwed beyond repair from what I've heard." Pushing back this release invites more and more of that mindset to exist. The risk for opening up BB10 to LTE is definitely not worth the reward.

My message to RIM: Release a goddamn smartphone with a QNX operation system soon, toss in a front-facing camera, and throw in some gadgetry for cosmetic appeal and the younger generation. Then market the absolute holy **** out of it. (p.s. Lay off the integration stuff for awhile. I've got dozens of friends with smartphones and none with a BlackBerry anymore. Your "integration" once again misses the consumer marketplace.)

Apologies for the rant, but RIM is capable of more. I believe in this company, but they seem insistent on digging their own grave.

sums it up pefectly.

[sleepngbear]

RIMs problem is that they are aiming at the target (iPhone/iPad) and not at where the target will be. In 2013 when they release the QNX "super phone" it will be a buggy version of the iPhone 4s without the app ecosystem, the industry will have moved on to the next big thing.

Where do you come up with this crap.

[anthogag]

It's gonna take a **** of a lot more than a few funny TV spots with celebrities to bring back people to a BB. They've got to be able to compete on ALL levels, not just the internal specs. Your average user doesn't care about quad core or dual core. Your average user wants apps. BB can't compete against the > 500K apps in the iOS App store.



IMO iPhone4.5 is the iPhone4s. iPhone5 is rumored to be released October 2012. We'll see.

I'm not talking about "a few funny TV spots", I'm talking about a serious relentless advertising campaign...a 'few spots' is a waste of time and money.

There are a lot of apps for BB phones. A new user to BB won't suffer for lack of choice

[Jake-44]

in the US market it will be a challenge for RIM to keep mindshare in the US until 2012,

but globally they will use OS7 to remain profitable, and come back hard HOPEFULLY with BB10 in the North American market jumping on the LTE bandwagon and pushing some good specs, I really hope they push some good specs,

OS7 devices are pretty good, OS7.1 leak is a vast improvement over OS7.0 if they can improve further on OS7.1 they can keep a tiny bit of relevance with consumers, and BES Fusion ensures they retain some foothold into the Medium/Large businesses who would have considered closing out BES completely even though it offered more features than Good technologies

Good analysis Big D, but RIM is now at $13.44 -1.69 (-11.17%) and is not getting any better. I like my 9930 and my PB but they are both becoming irrelevant very quickly.

Even BB Kevin and Crackberry have seen the light at the end of the tunnel, and are now promoting: "Need something for an iPhone or Android user? We've got your back on that one too - you can check out the CrackBerry Superstore for all your smartphone needs!"

[NJPhilliesPhan]

Good analysis Big D, but RIM is now at $13.44 -1.69 (-11.17%) and is not getting any better. I like my 9930 and my PB but they are both becoming irrelevant very quickly.

I agree, and that is RIM's problem in a nutshell. Blackberry has now become so irrelevent that I believe QNX will be the nail in the coffin if they continue to push this failed and unsupported operating system. The best they can do now is release phones running the Android or Windows OS and get the Blackberry name back on the streets and develop a buzz. As much as we love our BB's, the smartphone consumer wants a supported OS and solid eco system, RIM is currently is not in the position to offer either of those with QNX.

[SC457]

Bold 9900 is good for me for at least a year and will get even better soon with 7.1 coming out. Stocks are down as a whole right now. 11% may seem like a lot bit it's only a dollar and change. Monday it could bounce right back and go over that very easy. BlackBerry is going rebound in my opinion. They still have better technology and phone function then other phones. An iphone is what an iphone is, great techology but I don't want a touch screen phone to type on, period.

BB OS7 is the best so far and it was just released. Maybe right now they're down, but once the Androids wear off I feel people will start looking at BlackBerry again for the features and functions they've been missing.

Just doesn't seem like anyone really knows about the new phones with OS7 besides big BlackBerry fans, that's the problem right there.

[_StephenBB81]

Good analysis Big D, but RIM is now at $13.44 -1.69 (-11.17%) and is not getting any better. I like my 9930 and my PB but they are both becoming irrelevant very quickly.

Even BB Kevin and Crackberry have seen the light at the end of the tunnel, and are now promoting: "Need something for an iPhone or Android user? We've got your back on that one too - you can check out the CrackBerry Superstore for all your smartphone needs!"

The Stock price reflects market opinions of performance and mind share of the public, not the quality of a product or how a company is running
a 75% stock decline with a 35% growth? that relates how?


I really don't see how the 9930 + PlayBook are becoming irrelevant unless you subscribe to the notion that unless you don't have the latest and greatest you are irrelevant, and thus upgrade your car/computer/TV/coffee make on 18-24 month intervals

I don't suspect RIM to see a stock recovery until they can do right by the carriers, and the carriers do right by RIM selling BlackBerry's in North America, For that to happen RIM can't release a half product, and LTE is the future, Phones by the majority of users are purchased with 2-3 year's in mind, launching a NONE LTE flagship in 2012, would give RIM more of a market impression of being out of date, and they can't afford to keep that mind share, investors follow far more than consumers do.

[miktro]

I think OS7 is great . Really what is wrong with it ?

[Moonbase0ne]

RIM is waiting approx. 1 year to release a new phone and OS. They are not doing well in the US, which is where Wall street wants to see them do well. So, about a year from now they plan to release a new phone with a new OS. Meanwhile, Apple is rumored to release the iPhone 5, Android will have, I'm assuming, a ton of new phones that will push tech further. And, the OS's for RIM's competitors, which is already doing pretty well, will surely improve, adding some new features while improving on current ones.

So, how is RIM supposed to compete with the other guys for the next year or so with no new phones? 7.1?

Sure in other parts of the globe they may be doing good/great, but even with that success, they are still where they are now, and how long do they expect that success to carry them?





War Is All We Know