[MarsupilamiX]

The truth of the matter is the the Z10 IS over priced in India right now. Unfortunately the device is not available at carriers and must be purchased via 3rd party retailers (I believe that is how they do all phones) and right now they are charging a premium for the z10.

It is definitely not cheap.
But if it is really overpriced is something that the consumer will decide, when he does not buy the device.

We will know that soon enough though.

Posted via CB10

[Omnitech]

But BlackBerry is surely priced more in india than anywhere else which doesn't make sense

Actually it makes perfect sense:

1. Bundling hardware devices with mobile service, as far as I know, is against the law in India.
2. It is exactly that sort of hardware/service bundling noted above, which is responsible for the "low price" of smartphones outside of India. ("Low price" is in quotes because in reality, the price is not much different, see below.)
3. Key component of the "bundling" method of selling outside of India is a contract that binds a customer that purchases a subsidized device to that carrier for 2-3 years. I believe that practice is illegal in India.
4. As a result, in India the price for mobile service is dramatically less than it is in most countries that sell subsidized devices on contract. Ergo - the "low price" that you see on a subsidized device is hardly what it appears to be - the cost is simply amortized over a 2-3 period via a high service price that the customer is locked-in to paying via a binding contract.

[Bbnivende]

Apple had some recent success in India using this type of plan:

BlackBerry in talks with banks in India to introduce new financing scheme | RapidBerry

Blackberry is trying hard:

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/bl...rcles/1109741/

[Erik Lehman]

I think its fine. Get another phone if you don't like it


Posted via SEGA Master System

[Cesare21]

I'm an Indian and have been using 'berries for about 5 years now. About the price point, the Galaxy S3 I believe was priced at the same level (give or take a thousand) when launched. The price won't fall to lower so fast or easily, just because they seem to be flying off the shelves. I talked with a few retailers in my city and the general consensus is that if the company sent them more devices, they would sell them. A guy was more open with me and told me every time they get a batch of couple of hundred, they sell them within a few days.

Now here's some food for thought - The big retailers who pushed for legacy OS devices are charging a premium as a reward so to say for their continued support. Now should $BBRY dispatch more devices and have them potentially sit on the shelves, or should $BBRY continue with their conservative estimates and not keep the inventory idle?

As for the OP, it his opinion and initially even I thought the price point was a bit steep. However, if the brand reorganization needs a premium touch, this is the way to do it. Provide a premium device for a premium.

[Omnitech]

As for the OP, it his opinion and initially even I thought the price point was a bit steep. However, if the brand reorganization needs a premium touch, this is the way to do it. Provide a premium device for a premium.

One thing about brand positioning: if you create a "premium" image, you can always bring out a lesser version or discount the product later if you choose to. But if you create a "bargain" image to start with, it is almost impossible to try to create a "premium" image later. This is why companies often create new brand names (for essentially the same product) when they want to move upscale. Examples of brands that have done this in the USA automobile market:

• Toyota ---> Lexus
• Nissan ---> Infiniti
• Ford ---> Lincoln
• Honda ---> Acura

BTW - I really like your avatar. Did you create it yourself, and if not, where did you find it?

[web99]

I did not compare iphone or windows phone cause I ddnt buy 1 honestly and so I'm not completely aware of all the features .
And if you see that all those phones a year back at the time of their launch were also not as expensive as the Z10 is today. And for hardware which was introduced by other manufacturers a year back why is the Z10 so expensive today.
And the GS4 has better hardware and still its priced lower and with such high price india's share of BlackBerry is decreasing. Why wud any1 buy the same old hardware in a new body.
I'm not saying the phone is bad its just not selling in india because of its High Price.

Posted via CB10

OP, I understand what you are saying, but here is my thought regarding pricing. An item is priced by what the market is prepared to pay for it.

If the price is too high, then sales will be impacted and the seller will be forced to reduce his/her price to sell enough units.

The fact that there are enough people in India prepared to pay for price that the Z10 is selling for tells me that there is enough demand for the Z10 for the price it is selling for.

In other words, BlackBerry is selling enough units to justify the price it is selling there phones.

Whether or not you think the price is too expensive is neither here or there, because enough people are willing to buy it at that price.


Posted via CB10 from my spectacular Z10

[Chicago777Guy]

All I can say is that Z10 is hands down the best phone...

Posted via CB10

[hvd23]

OP, I understand what you are saying, but here is my thought regarding pricing. An item is priced by what the market is prepared to pay for it.

If the price is too high, then sales will be impacted and the seller will be forced to reduce his/her price to sell enough units.

The fact that there are enough people in India prepared to pay for price that the Z10 is selling for tells me that there is enough demand for the Z10 for the price it is selling for.

In other words, BlackBerry is selling enough units to justify the price it is selling there phones.

Whether or not you think the price is too expensive is neither here or there, because enough people are willing to buy it at that price.


Posted via CB10 from my spectacular Z10

If and when the price falls I will be the most happy individual cause right now like me people are buying the Z10 not from India but from dubai for a much cheaper price Rs31,000 (converted currency) .


Posted via CB10

[hvd23]

Actually it makes perfect sense:

1. Bundling hardware devices with mobile service, as far as I know, is against the law in India.
2. It is exactly that sort of hardware/service bundling noted above, which is responsible for the "low price" of smartphones outside of India. ("Low price" is in quotes because in reality, the price is not much different, see below.)
3. Key component of the "bundling" method of selling outside of India is a contract that binds a customer that purchases a subsidized device to that carrier for 2-3 years. I believe that practice is illegal in India.
4. As a result, in India the price for mobile service is dramatically less than it is in most countries that sell subsidized devices on contract. Ergo - the "low price" that you see on a subsidized device is hardly what it appears to be - the cost is simply amortized over a 2-3 period via a high service price that the customer is locked-in to paying via a binding contract.

It's legal in india because iphone4 was launched with Aircel and Airtel with a 12 o 24 month contract. And Vodafone has launched Z10 but it's not selling as I was informed on my last visit to their store.

Posted via CB10

[homl]

I guess some people think software is free. My friend, nothing in life is free.
Android is not free, you are paying it with your soul. OK, maybe part of your soul, in lost privacy and personal information.
iOS will recover their cost with their leash called iTunes.

[Omnitech]

I guess some people think software is free. My friend, nothing in life is free.
Android is not free, you are paying it with your soul. OK, maybe part of your soul, in lost privacy and personal information.
iOS will recover their cost with their leash called iTunes.

True points.

[hvd23]

Some of these are your opinion, others are simply you being lazy and not researching honestly some of these things were adressed in 10.1

And @6 your really going to complain because there aren't enough free apps? :s and what is worse is you compare it to the playstore? I'm sorry but you sound like a joke,even number 10 is baked into the OS yo your really lazy or you would have known this.....wow



Posted via CB10

So this means you do agree with the rest of the points.
Playstore was compared to the App store so why can't I compare BlackBerry world.
Number 10 is baked into the OS means? Pls help me understand.
You should laugh if you find it funny. No offense atleast it brought a smile on your face.(Personal remarks don't really prove your point, it's a request pls keep it healthy SirJes)
" People in the world laugh in the same language "

Posted via CB10

[Blacklatino]

I understand what your trying say and I know nobody is forced to buy. But I'm just pointing out a fact or a cause of it not selling in india which I have noticed and experienced. And since your saying that blackberries are not for everyone then Sir your respectfully wrong and I disagree with you.


Posted via CB10

That's cool. We disagree and agree.
The price is too steep and that's something that will probably bite BlackBerry at some time. Anyway, good luck.

Posted via CB10

[bambinoitaliano]

So there is no such thing as value for money.
And I can afford and already own a Z10 I'm just complaining about the pricing in india. Please dont get personal and don't get so offended.

Posted via CB10

Non taken. If you already make a decision of paying for a Z10, however you get the money from, you have reach your goal. Unless you are not satisfy with the product, which I hope you are within the time frame to return it. I do not see the purpose of complaining about the pricing. Obviously it did not stop you from acquiring one. So I do not see the issue here.

[iamnadroj]

How much for an uber OS and how do you pay for the manhours spent on making it.

Its not all about hardware.

Posted via CB10

[MC_A_DOT]

So there is no such thing as value for money.
And I can afford and already own a Z10 I'm just complaining about the pricing in india. Please dont get personal and don't get so offended.

Posted via CB10

So you have already bought the Z10 and now your not happy with the price you paid? LOL sorry but thats funny.

No offence.

You could always take it back right?

[MarsupilamiX]

So you have already bought the Z10 and now your not happy with the price you paid? LOL sorry but thats funny.

No offence.

You could always take it back right?

But then we wouldn't have this thread, and all this drama....
Who knows if this guy really has a BB...?

Posted via CB10

[PH_BB]

It may be expensive...

But if we take into consideration the context of "mobile computing" (Os 10.1 allows remote file access and eventually Blackberry 10 phones will be the only thing you need as "computers") then I believe it is already cheap for what it can do.

[MarsupilamiX]

It may be expensive...

But if we take into consideration the context of "mobile computing" (Os 10.1 allows remote file access and eventually Blackberry 10 phones will be the only thing you need as "computers") then I believe it is already cheap for what it can do.

In reality, if we follow hvd23's logic, we must consider every phone to be overpriced.
If we compare phones, to the hardware of a Nexus 7, for exemple, then we should ask ourself why is a phone that much more expensive?

If we compare an iPad4, which is far more powerfull than an iPhone5, with an iPhone5; why is the phone more expensive?

Posted via CB10

[bbranny]

It may be expensive...

But if we take into consideration the context of "mobile computing" (Os 10.1 allows remote file access and eventually Blackberry 10 phones will be the only thing you need as "computers") then I believe it is already cheap for what it can do.

so u are tellin me you can get rid of your laptop/desktop and just use your z10?

[currentodysseys]

Just my 2 cents and bring the hate if you like, will not be surprised.

What DOES surprise me though is the following: Consumers (that is US buying phones for example) arguing against price drop on ANY service or good. For the consumer it IS important to pay the less possible money when acquiring something, this is plain and simple to the consumer's interest.

I see lately people going about that the price should be higher or that it is ok and top it up with "if you cannot afford it do not buy it" cliche.

REALLY? Realise that even if you can afford it (I could and I bought it, as I did the playbook and my other bb and non bb phones), it is YOUR money, YOUR hard work. It does not matter how much money one has, money is always (or in most cases anyway) earned through hard work, so yes, any time I ll take a discount and I will press for the price to drop, and I will let people know it is too expensive, not because I can or cannot afford it, but because some times (one too many) products ARE overpriced... we are saving BlackBerry's bottom (line) by buying a phone that is sold at x3 or x2 the cost.

Will not get into cost analysis, I know there have been very informative posts in CB and obviously the production cost is not the marketing cost so, lets say roughly that the retail price is x2 the costs from factory to retail... that is 100% gross profit for the people/companies in the whole chain.

Also according to the per capita GDP of each country/ Market a product can become "luxurious" or not, depending on the "segment" it is directed when priced. Thorstein said the same about the Q10 yesterday in his interviews. They are aiming a certain segment (economically as well) with the Q10 (that it is expected to sell by the 10ns of millions...). And there came a comment on the CB front page by a user, that he thought the Q10 should be sold for 1500USD... implying that business people do not really care or get affected by price.... REALLY!?

Some People here have gone mad? It really offends you when someone comes out to say that a phone is overpriced (mind you with 700-800 or 1000USD in some places, a family lives for a couple of months or more...) and it does not offend you that we all spend 4 times the PRODUCTION cost of the phone to acquire it or x2 the cost for production+marketing+distribution?
I love BB products and my buying history proves it, I accept the pricing and decide to buy them, so I do not pretend to be an idealistic hypocrite. I paid for the z10 a hefty ammount because I could afford it. But to come out saying that people are crazy or plants from companies when they voice their opinion as consumers asking for a lower price, that is totally crazy and offensive.

This is what happened with the iphone and all started calling people sheep etc... its price converted it to a status symbol... even if people could not afford it, they would buy it, prioritise their phone acquirement over other issues in life and many people in here would go on to critisise them as fashion and status symbol victims. Now some come here to advocate that BB is niche, that it is for the "few that CAN afford it" because it is THAT good, and if you cannot, well.. poor you....

This is proof of the sheep mentality being inherent to people... they take our money and we cheer. Up to that it is our own decision. then someone comes over and says: "You are asking too much for this phone, I love it but hell, 700-1000USD is way too much for a z10-q10"... and then the "select few" come and bash over them, as if they are not being logical or at least do not have the right to voice their opinion based on general competition pricing.

The iphone and the z10 are in approximately same prices...? maybe so. Maybe the most expensive phones on the market (q10 and Iphone)... and well, some people are just as proud to have the phone that is the most expensive, next to the i-phone, they will bash all that voice concern about price and then will go to bash i-phone users for being sheep. And now they will come to bash on me for my post, that is the character of human nature...

To each their own, but when people come in here bashing over a legit voicing of opinion, well that is really what makes CB little by little, too similar to some other forums that are no fun at all. And personally I would like CB to continue being a fun and constructive/ friendly place to be.

all the best and sorry about the rant, had to get it out of my system.
Thanks.

[MarsupilamiX]

Just my 2 cents and bring the hate if you like, will not be surprised.

What DOES surprise me though is the following: Consumers (that is US buying phones for example) arguing against price drop on ANY service or good. For the consumer it IS important to pay the less possible money when acquiring something, this is plain and simple to the consumer's interest.

I see lately people going about that the price should be higher or that it is ok and top it up with "if you cannot afford it do not buy it" cliche.

REALLY? Realise that even if you can afford it (I could and I bought it, as I did the playbook and my other bb and non bb phones), it is YOUR money, YOUR hard work. It does not matter how much money one has, money is always (or in most cases anyway) earned through hard work, so yes, any time I ll take a discount and I will press for the price to drop, and I will let people know it is too expensive, not because I can or cannot afford it, but because some times (one too many) products ARE overpriced... we are saving BlackBerry's bottom (line) by buying a phone that is sold at x3 or x2 the cost.

Will not get into cost analysis, I know there have been very informative posts in CB and obviously the production cost is not the marketing cost so, lets say roughly that the retail price is x2 the costs from factory to retail... that is 100% gross profit for the people/companies in the whole chain.

Also according to the GDP of each country/ Market a product can become "luxurious" or not, depending on the "segment" it is directed when priced. Thorstein said the same about the Q10 yesterday in his interviews. They are aiming a certain segment (economically as well) with the Q10 (that it is expected to sell by the 10ns of millions...). And there came a comment on the CB front page by a user, that he thought the Q10 should be sold for 1500USD... implying that business people do not really care or get affected by price.... REALLY!?

Some People here have gone mad? It really offends you when someone comes out to say that a phone is overpriced (mind you with 700-800 or 1000USD in some places, a family lives for a couple of months or more...) and it does not offend you that we all spend 4 times the PRODUCTION cost of the phone to acquire it or x2 the cost for production+marketing+distribution?
I love BB products and my buying history proves it, I accept the pricing and decide to buy them, so I do not pretend to be an idealistic hypocrite. I paid for the z10 a hefty ammount because I could afford it. But to come out saying that people are crazy or plants from companies when they voice their opinion as consumers asking for a lower price, that is totally crazy and offensive.

This is what happened with the iphone and all started calling people sheep etc... its price converted it to a status symbol... even if people could not afford it, they would buy it, prioritise their phone acquirement over other issues in life and many people in here would go on to critisise them as fashion and status symbol victims. Now some come here to advocate that BB is niche, that it is for the "few that CAN afford it" because it is THAT good, and if you cannot, well.. poor you....

This is proof of the sheep mentality being inherent to people... they take our money and we cheer. Up to that it is our own decision. then someone comes over and says: "You are asking too much for this phone, I love it but hell, 700-1000USD is way too much for a z10-q10"... and then the "select few" come and bash over them, as if they are not being logical or at least do not have the right to voice their opinion based on general competition pricing.

The iphone and the z10 are in approximately same prices...? maybe so. Maybe the most expensive phones on the market (q10 and Iphone)... and well, some people are just as proud to have the phone that is the most expensive, next to the i-phone, they will bash all that voice concern about price and then will go to bash i-phone users for being sheep. And now they will come to bash on me for my post, that is the character of human nature...

To each their own, but when people come in here bashing over a legit voicing of opinion, well that is really what makes CB little by little, too similar to some other forums that are no fun at all. And personally I would like CB to continue being a fun and constructive/ friendly place to be.

all the best and sorry about the rant, had to get it out of my system.
Thanks.

On a personal level, I agree a 90% with you.
The 10% where I do not agree, are so called "Market Realities" and you can find them in some of the posts here.

A product is not overpriced, only because some users think that.
The market, where supply and demand meet each other, will decide that.
It happened with the PlayBook. I got a 64gb for 250$. It happened with my TV. It happened with etc...
If a product is too expensive, people won't buy it.

And the guy who opened this thread, clearly doesn't understand that.
If enough people buy the Z10 for its current price in India, how can it be overpriced?
That something is overpriced implies that it does not sell well, because its value doesn't match the price.

If that is not the case, the words overpriced, or even better "Rip Off", show a misunderstanding of market mechanisms.

Posted via CB10

[currentodysseys]

On a personal level, I agree a 90% with you.
The 10% where I do not agree, are so called "Market Realities" and you can find them in some of the posts here.

A product is not overpriced, only because some users think that.
The market, where supply and demand meet each other, will decide that.
It happened with the PlayBook. I got a 64gb for 250$. It happened with my TV. It happened with etc...
If a product is too expensive, people won't buy it.

And the guy who opened this thread, clearly doesn't understand that.
If enough people buy the Z10 for its current price in India, how can it be overpriced?
That something is overpriced implies that it does not sell well, because its value doesn't match the price.

If that is not the case, the words overpriced, or even better "Rip Off", show a misunderstanding of market mechanisms.

Posted via CB10

Thank you for your post. I am really conscious and aware of marketing realities and then some, believe me, and I agree in what you specify on in a way. My comment was indeed in personal level. If a marketing strategic positioning and implementation works or not, is not equal to cheap or expensive being absoute truths though. If the marketing implementation is successful it will be just that: a successful marketing implementation and a job very well done, as to the specifics of the mk planning and strategy. So we are in agreement essentially.

In theory the basic laws of demand should work in the marketing mix, except if they are affected by strategically positioned and shifted parameters on the marketing design and they work in the implementation, that is what this is all about, and always with a target group in sights and with marketing study and research behind it. So I am not really prone to simplifying "expensive" or "cheap", this is too much of generalisation and as said, we should be looking a mk mix and strategy, something that we can touch upon in the case of bb but not really discuss if we want to be effective, given that we know their general direction but not have the info.

My post was not to say I agree with the OP or not. My post was that as a person, in my life, I find the reaction of bashing the op as pathetic, to say the least. I think he is entitled to voice his opinion on his perception of pricing (especially when he is not coming out saying it should cost 2USD...).

I do agree with you, I would say we are at about 99% (I leave 1% out due to the difference between mk theory and practice when it comes to results ).

Thanks again.

[RoboticGolem]

So for your comparison about how "overpriced" the Z10 is, you match its "on sale" price against a bunch of phones that came out 1 to 2 years ago. the only "new" phone you list is the Glaxey S4 which is 2000 MRP less. Not a big difference if you ask me. And I noticed you did not have any Iphones listed....,why not?

Cause a quick google search came up an avg of 45,500 for the iphone5. Go figure.