02-29-12 07:10 PM
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  1. southlander's Avatar
    I won't agree that os7 has flopped.

    But as for the 9850/9860, I agree. It is a shame that RIM could not market these better. I switched from my 9930 recently and while I miss the keyboard, on balance I like the Torch a little more. When I show it to people they can not believe it is a BlackBerry. One guy yesterday was watching me remote on my PlayBook with the Torch and was saying he should get one when his contract's up. Then he went on and on about his wife having had a BlackBerry before she went to Android. He kept talking about how much she hated the trackball. That got me thinking how RIM's brand image is so closely tied to keyboards and trackballs. Good for differentiation, and bad in terms of current consumer appeal.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9850 using Tapatalk
    02-26-12 09:22 PM
  2. recompile's Avatar
    I agree with you. My elder brother told me: "That's your NEW phone? It looks exactly like the old models... You lost your money"
    You got an iPhone 4s?
    02-26-12 09:27 PM
  3. Gucci33's Avatar
    Bb 7 devices struggle in US that's it end of story. Flop in US ok anywhere else no.
    02-26-12 09:32 PM
  4. kevinnugent's Avatar
    Aren't the vast majority of current RIM customers still on OS5? Like 70%?

    I'd call OS7 a flop then, if only from the lack of marketing even to their own customers.
    02-26-12 09:42 PM
  5. 13echo4's Avatar
    Dude slowing the bleed is the literal interpretation of flopping. Why would a company want to slow the bleed and not completely heal the wound?

    Sent from the best mobile device ever --Samsung Galaxy Note
    Might want to rethink this. You got to control the bleeding before you can heal the wound.
    02-26-12 10:07 PM
  6. hurds's Avatar
    Saying BB7 is a flop is like deciding a basketball game is over after the first quarter.
    02-27-12 12:32 AM
  7. sam_b77's Avatar
    Dude slowing the bleed is the literal interpretation of flopping. Why would a company want to slow the bleed and not completely heal the wound?

    Sent from the best mobile device ever --Samsung Galaxy Note
    You have got to be kidding. Samsung Note is device allright but hardly Mobile.

    I was checking out phones at a store recently and a guy came in asking the sales rep about phones and prices. He pointed to the 9900 and asked for the price. When the sales rep told him the price, the guy replied back that he could get the Note for less and the rep replied that he might as well put a laptop to his ear. That cracked me up. And BTW the store sold the Note as well and the phone guy was not a BB specific rep.
    02-27-12 02:17 AM
  8. qbnkelt's Avatar
    BB7 flopped?!?!??

    Damn, someone should have told me sooner.....

    I should be absolutely hating my four BB OS7 devices....

    OK, I'll start hating them now....

    Nah....love these phones. And I'm enjoying the daylights out of playing with my 9370. Although admittedly below a 9930 specs wise, I love this little thing.

    See, it's not about what people tell me I should like....the market, critics, trolls, usual suspects....it's about what feels good in my hand, makes me happy, gets me through my day, makes me smile.

    BBerries do that better than anything else. Yup, I've got a Skyrocket and I'm loving it. But what *works* best for me is my BB. All four flopping OS7. My go to workhorses. Flopping all the way....
    sleepngbear and Blacklatino like this.
    02-27-12 03:40 AM
  9. southlander's Avatar
    I mean to the contrary, RIM took an aging OS that has been lambasted in the press and managed to shore it up to make very competitive devices in terms of speed and core function. My Torch 9850 is fast as heck, can browse the web with the best of them, has a pretty great virtual keyboard, and all the apps most average users would want. Battery lifes pretty darn good too.

    I will admit that there will never be a lot of new apps for OS7 comparatively. But even in that area there are some surprising new apps (foodspotting for one).

    It was meant to buy RIM time. It has worked in that regard.



    Sent from my BlackBerry 9850 using Tapatalk
    sleepngbear likes this.
    02-27-12 04:46 AM
  10. bobauckland's Avatar
    OS7 and devices carrying it are bizarre to say the least.
    Its an operating system effectively dead on release.
    Hardly any upgrades from OS6. No front facing camera. Reduced battery life.

    So for less money you can get a rock solid OS6 phone without a touch screen but with pretty much everything else plus incredibly better battery life. And I mean for A LOT less money.

    The only people who will do the research and buy into an OS7 device are huge RIM fans, the rest will wait for BB10 or go for the much cheaper but almost identical OS6. Im not sure thats the direction RIM wanted to go with OS7.
    02-27-12 06:13 AM
  11. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    OS7 and devices carrying it are bizarre to say the least.
    Its an operating system effectively dead on release.
    Hardly any upgrades from OS6. No front facing camera. Reduced battery life.

    So for less money you can get a rock solid OS6 phone without a touch screen but with pretty much everything else plus incredibly better battery life. And I mean for A LOT less money.

    The only people who will do the research and buy into an OS7 device are huge RIM fans, the rest will wait for BB10 or go for the much cheaper but almost identical OS6. Im not sure thats the direction RIM wanted to go with OS7.
    Most people will not know about BB10 until they see it in a shop at upgrade time, people that know and care are a small percentage.

    OS7 devices are not dead, they will continue on as low end in paralel with BB10 devices, at least for a few more years(from the BB UK Managing Director's mouth)

    Until I see a qwerty bb10 I will not switch to one and keep rocking my 9900 or future variants of it.
    02-27-12 06:24 AM
  12. bobauckland's Avatar
    Most people will not know about BB10 until they see it in a shop at upgrade time, people that know and care are a small percentage.

    OS7 devices are not dead, they will continue on as low end in paralel with BB10 devices, at least for a few more years(from the BB UK Managing Director's mouth)

    Until I see a qwerty bb10 I will not switch to one and keep rocking my 9900 or future variants of it.
    Agree with your comment re BB10 not having mindshare, though this is a failure when other phones are doing a great job stealing mindshare.
    I can't see why someone would get an OS7 phone, I really can't.
    In the UK I have an OS6 Bold for half the price of an OS7 Bold.
    for double the price I can have the benefit of losing UMA, getting a worse camera, less battery life.
    On the plus side the keyboards a bit bigger and it has a touchscreen.
    I don't see why anyone looking at it from a financial or value perspective would ever get the 990 over a 9780.
    Its not even future proof, no front facing camera, found on almost all the other phones of a similar, or cheaper price.
    So even if video chat does get integrated, you're still screwed with OS7.
    02-27-12 06:40 AM
  13. dagerlach's Avatar
    One mans belly flop is another mans big splash. I love my Bold 9900. I don't care for my Wife's Samsung Galaxy IIS. She says she likes it, but secretly I know she is coveting my Bold 9900.

    RIM could have sold more Bold 9900s if they would not have announced BB10 so soon after releasing the new phones. Phones sell in very short cycles fortunately or unfortunately. What's hot today gets blown away in months these days.

    I look forward to next years phones. In the meantime, my Bold 9900 is the best system for me.
    Last edited by dagerlach; 02-27-12 at 10:20 AM.
    02-27-12 06:49 AM
  14. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Agree with your comment re BB10 not having mindshare, though this is a failure when other phones are doing a great job stealing mindshare.
    I can't see why someone would get an OS7 phone, I really can't.
    In the UK I have an OS6 Bold for half the price of an OS7 Bold.
    for double the price I can have the benefit of losing UMA, getting a worse camera, less battery life.
    On the plus side the keyboards a bit bigger and it has a touchscreen.
    I don't see why anyone looking at it from a financial or value perspective would ever get the 990 over a 9780.
    Its not even future proof, no front facing camera, found on almost all the other phones of a similar, or cheaper price.
    So even if video chat does get integrated, you're still screwed with OS7.
    Problem is many don't want videochat, I don't, instead I want the best keyboard money can buy. I think you live too far ahead in time, I'm not gonna spend my life waiting for the next thing announced, I use the best available at the present time. That's why people buy OS7 now, especially if they want a physical keyboard.
    sleepngbear and Blacklatino like this.
    02-27-12 06:58 AM
  15. inicophone's Avatar
    I think the poor marketing at launch was the only failure. OS7 is pretty good!
    02-27-12 08:06 AM
  16. ynomrah's Avatar
    You have got to be kidding. Samsung Note is device allright but hardly Mobile.

    I was checking out phones at a store recently and a guy came in asking the sales rep about phones and prices. He pointed to the 9900 and asked for the price. When the sales rep told him the price, the guy replied back that he could get the Note for less and the rep replied that he might as well put a laptop to his ear. That cracked me up. And BTW the store sold the Note as well and the phone guy was not a BB specific rep.
    Off topic, but no this device is plenty mobile my friend. Now unless you wear skirt or kapris, this device will surely fit in your pocket & feel comfortable in the hand. Ask yourself-- are you the type of person who goes about life worrying about what others think of you? Or are you confident in knowing the phone you have is the best all-in-one mobile device for all your computing needs regardless of what someone thinks of the size? It requires a strong minded individual (you know someone who can think outside of society's threshold, and formulate their own opinion ), and likely someone who uses their device for everything, including tablet replacement.

    Sent from the best mobile device ever --Samsung Galaxy Note
    Last edited by Ynomrah; 02-27-12 at 08:16 AM.
    02-27-12 08:12 AM
  17. sleepngbear's Avatar
    OS7 and devices carrying it are bizarre to say the least.
    Its an operating system effectively dead on release.
    Hardly any upgrades from OS6. No front facing camera. Reduced battery life.
    Sorry, but this statement alone is just plain ignorant. Do a little research. If this was hardly an upgrade from OS6, it would be able to run on OS6 devices. It can't. And not everybody wants a front-facing camera on their phone. In fact I don't know anyone who has one who actually uses it.


    So for less money you can get a rock solid OS6 phone without a touch screen but with pretty much everything else plus incredibly better battery life. And I mean for A LOT less money.
    Go use a 9700 and a 9900 side by side, or a 9800 and 9810, then come back and make this same statement with a straight face. I had both a 9800 and 9810; virtually identical outside, but the difference is night and day.

    You can also get an iPhone 3Gs for a LOT less money than an 4s. Looks like basically the same thing to me. Oh yeah, it has a front-facing camera -- that's certainly worth the $300 (subsidized) price difference.

    As for battery life, you people love to tout the high-end Androids as having specs so far ahead of BB and dismiss their horrendous battery life; but now that OS7 devices are a little hungrier than their predecessors, all of a sudden battery life is important. Can you make up your minds?

    The only people who will do the research and buy into an OS7 device are huge RIM fans, the rest will wait for BB10 or go for the much cheaper but almost identical OS6. Im not sure thats the direction RIM wanted to go with OS7.
    Got any stats to back that up? Again, as stated earlier, BB7 was intended to keep BB users in the fold more than to attract new users -- although it is still attracting some new smart phone buyers. By your logic, most Android and iPhone users are holding off buying new devices because they know it's only a matter of time before newer models arrive. That isn't the case, either.

    If everybody waited for the next gen devices to make a purchase, nobody would ever make a purchase.
    up488 likes this.
    02-27-12 08:17 AM
  18. BBThemes's Avatar
    seriously? people are still trying to use the `they all look the same` arguement?! its not a pro or a con. i mean its hardly like it hinders apple or HTC now is it, or just about every TV maker out there.
    Blacklatino likes this.
    02-27-12 08:20 AM
  19. sleepngbear's Avatar
    Off topic, but no this device is plenty mobile my friend. Now unless you wear skirt or kapris, this device will surely fit in your pocket & feel comfortable in the hand. Ask yourself-- are you the type of person who goes about life worrying about what others think of you? Or are you confident in knowing the phone you have is the best all-in-one mobile device for all your computing needs regardless of what someone thinks of the size? It requires a strong minded individual (you know someone who can think outside of society's threshold, and formulate their own opinion ), and likely someone who uses their device for everything, including tablet replacement.

    Sent from the best mobile device ever --Samsung Galaxy Note
    So .... you're here on CrackBerry with what you're calling the best mobile device ever because .... ????? If you feel the need to shove that thing in everybody's face -- which based on your signature you obviously do -- then either you're not as confident as you say you are that it's the best device ever, or you're just starved for attention ... or you're trolling. Which is it?
    danimalchil likes this.
    02-27-12 08:22 AM
  20. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Off topic, but no this device is plenty mobile my friend. Now unless you wear skirt or kapris, this device will surely fit in your pocket & feel comfortable in the hand. Ask yourself-- are you the type of person who goes about life worrying about what others think of you? Or are you confident in knowing the phone you have is the best all-in-one mobile device for all your computing needs regardless of what someone thinks of the size? It requires a strong minded individual (you know someone who can think outside of society's threshold, and formulate their own opinion ), and likely someone who uses their device for everything, including tablet replacement.

    Sent from the best mobile device ever --Samsung Galaxy Note
    I'm the kind pf person that doesn't like to walk around with a brick in my pocket or tu require a man purse just to carry my phone.

    I would love to see you with your phone strapped to your arm at the gym lol. If that's the future of smartphones I would rather go back to a dumb phone.
    02-27-12 08:29 AM
  21. berklon's Avatar
    First, flop is being addressed in regards to sales. It doesn't matter that you love your BB7 device - if it's not selling as well as hoped, then it's a flop. Maybe "flop" is too harsh a word, but BB7 obviously isn't selling that well.

    Secondly, the argument that the new iPhone or HTC device looks no different than past devices is not the same as comparing it with BB. BB devices need a refresh because they are dated - THAT is why people complain that the BB7 look like previous devices... because previous devices are dated and people just can't believe in 2012 RIM still continues to release the same old, same old.

    Apple and Android devices don't need to change anytime soon because consumers want them as is. The sales are proof of this.

    People on this forum need to look at things objectively. RIM is behind... big time. People are choosing not to purchase their devices until something truly new comes out - if it's not too late. This is why BB10 devices are being promised - so RIM can catch up to some degree with the competition.

    You don't have to like it, but you should accept that's what's happening right now.
    02-27-12 08:32 AM
  22. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    First, flop is being addressed in regards to sales. It doesn't matter that you love your BB7 device - if it's not selling as well as hoped, then it's a flop. Maybe "flop" is too harsh a word, but BB7 obviously isn't selling that well.

    And that's based on what? Who said it's not selling well? Have Rim released their quarterly figures yet and I missed it?
    02-27-12 08:40 AM
  23. randall2580's Avatar
    Once it was clear the 4s was coming, Apple's sales of the 4 slowed to a crawl. I think it's the same here. OS7 is a nice update but if you are in line for an upgrade why burn it now when BB10 is going to be the game changer? In that estimation, the first quarter or two of BB10 phones should benefit from pent up demand, the same as happened for the 4s.
    02-27-12 08:52 AM
  24. sleepngbear's Avatar
    Once it was clear the 4s was coming, Apple's sales of the 4 slowed to a crawl. I think it's the same here. OS7 is a nice update but if you are in line for an upgrade why burn it now when BB10 is going to be the game changer? In that estimation, the first quarter or two of BB10 phones should benefit from pent up demand, the same as happened for the 4s.
    A couple of things, at least from my perspective: First, BB7 is here now. In fact I had already burned my upgrade on a 9810 when I made the mistake of trying a 9900, which I ended up buying full price, knowing full well that BB10 was coming at least six months before my next upgrade.

    Second, most BB users prefer the stellar physical keyboards, and it is unknown at this time when a BB10 candybar will be coming out. We've been told that the first BB10 is coming towards the end of 2012 and it will be a full touch-screen. It's been rumored that a Torch-like slider may also be coming around that time, but may not be until 2013. Information on a Bold-like BB10 is even more vague.

    As for the iPhone, I believe sales if the iP4 only began slowing a few months before iP4s. It was still about a year before BB10's estimated release that the BB7's first dropped. And in case you hadn't noticed, we smart phone buyers are not the most patient lot, and a lot of us tend to not hang onto phones for more than a couple of years, especially those who must have the latest and greatest.
    02-27-12 09:03 AM
  25. southlander's Avatar
    I can't see why someone would get an OS7 phone, I really can't.
    Speed. Speed. Oh, and speed. Lol. The new hardware boots like 5 times faster. Web browsing is so much better, especially on the Torches with a larger screen. Plus bridging with a PlayBook is faster in terms of web access. Plus hotspot if you need it. Plus NFC on the Bold if you want it. Though admittedly there are not a lot of NFC uses yet. Plus the Bold is thin, stylish and beautiful.

    But there is nothing wrong with the OS6 devices either for what they are designed to do well.

    If I were strapped for cash I would still buy an older model.
    02-27-12 09:05 AM
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