[SnoozerBold]

Call me crazy, but I'm quite happy with my 9790 I got from Bell in mid Dec. I still have the stock build on it as well. Nothing to complain about.
I could care less what the competition is doing. I am happy with my purchase and don't feel the need to validate it with sales numbers.

[nikechk89]

I agree Im actually really pissy at the lack of themes for my 9810, is there a way to put OS 6 on it until they come out with a theme builder for OS 7? RIM is going to lose a customer that's been using BB for almost 10 years now if they keep this up! tsk tsk

[TgeekB]

I agree Im actually really pissy at the lack of themes for my 9810, is there a way to put OS 6 on it until they come out with a theme builder for OS 7? RIM is going to lose a customer that's been using BB for almost 10 years now if they keep this up! tsk tsk

All because of themes?

[alexandros2011]

I agree Im actually really pissy at the lack of themes for my 9810, is there a way to put OS 6 on it until they come out with a theme builder for OS 7? RIM is going to lose a customer that's been using BB for almost 10 years now if they keep this up! tsk tsk

no you cant put os 6 onto a 9810...if u want themes for the 9810 you should goto the themes section on the board ...youll find some amazing themes there done by some board members

p.s. the reason there arent many themes for os 7 devices yet is be theme builder 7 hasnt been released as of yet. with that said ..check out the theme section

[13echo4]

OS7 should run on OS6 hardware, it started as 6.1 and isn't the leap in terms of hardware requirements that BB10 should be.
I did my research, and found that OS7 had worse battery life, a lot of OS6 apps wouldn't work on it, and there was virtually nothing app wise to entice me to move to OS7 vs OS6.

I used my 9780 next to the 9900 when considering it and found very little difference apart from the touchscreen, which isn't a key for me. Interesting how you'd rather compare it with a 9700 which has less RAM. I understand you'd like to justify your decisions but you seem to be trying to manipulate the choice by comparing the 9700 with the 9900 instead of the 9900.

Regardless of whether you feel the front facing camera is a key or not, it is a future proof feature. Most of the other competing phones in that bracket have one, so even if it does catch on you're set.
NFC is fantastic, if supported. It isn't in the UK and most places outside North America, at least to a large extent, so its fairly pointless at the moment, although it is future proof, Ill give you that.

When you say that 'you people' love to tout Androids high end specs, not sure who you mean. Im a BlackBerry owner and moved from Android because the battery life and UI were awful. I think OS6 is fantastic. I think OS7 is an incremental step forwards at best and a step backwards from certain key hardware views, camera and battery mainly.
If faced with a choice between a 9900, or a 9780 plus PlayBook for cheaper than the 9900 alone, I still don't see why anyone would consider the 9900 unless money was no object at all. I don't think those are the people RIM need to attract to ensure healthy marketshare, as like it or not, those are the people far more likely to get an iPhone to be 'cool' or 'trendy'.

1st off os7 isn't able to run on os6 devices because of the hardware requirements. You didn't do your research good enough cause there is a big jump in hardware from the 9780 to the 9900. There's no way putting them side byside resulted in compairable performance. The 9900 has double the cpu, more ram better resolution, a gpu. Because of these hardwares os6 can't run these devices.
Its not just os7's fault that some os6 apps didn't work. There is such a hardware jump. That being said there is apps that are running on os7.
Any device bridged to the PB is going to be awesome. But when its disconnected its a different story.
Price no object? The 9900 can be got now for $50. It was $200. That's not that expence for what it is.
If you still get what you want out of your 9780,that's all that matters. Continue to enjoy it. But don't make it out to be more than what it is. The new devices is at the least 2ce the devices of os6 devices.

[AlienSlacker]

I posted this reply in comments to a recent article but feel it is worthy of a thread. In addition to the common reasons given for BB 7 lackluster sales, I feel this is often overlooked:

The problem is everyone including RIM is waiting for BB 10. The launch and promotion of BB 7 devices as many are aware of, was completely botched. That was a golden opportunity to begin raising awareness of the new Blackberries. Most people have no idea what a huge step forward was taken with the browsers in 9900 and 9800 lines.

But, rather than really try and point out the new hardware and capabilities, RIM and I hate to say it, even Crackberry focused on the very traditional keyboard 9900 series. Most former or non BB users did not even give that a second glance. To them, it looked like the same old BB. The Torch 9850/50 series with a large touch screen was much better suited to raising awareness and promoting BB 7 and the new hardware. The New Torch would not as easily be mistaken as the same old BB. Non hard core BB users would likely be much more tempted by this perhaps in their mind "more up to date phone" than the Bold. You don't need to promote the 9900 keyboard, the faithful are salivating waiting for it and the most likely to buy it.

By the time BB10 is in store, we are looking at well over a year which could have been put to good use by properly marketing the BB 7 devices. RIM also dropped the ball big time by failing to educate carriers about the new phones. Everyone knows that most store employees knew very little about BB7 devices and many of us know of cases where they discouraged BB 7 uptake.

What a disaster. Wake up RIM. Its not only about the hardware. Nothing wrong with BB7. You just don't know how to sell it. Neglecting to promote the Torch 9850/60 was another in a series of missed opportunities.

What exactly is the point of this thread other then to pi$$ off Rim fans and give a place for Apple trolls to congregate?

[Maiev]

I myself, got rid of a 9700 for 9900.

I've had phone who got rid of a 9700 for iPhone4s, then to 9900

So no, I don't think it flopped

[13echo4]

Call me crazy, but I'm quite happy with my 9790 I got from Bell in mid Dec. I still have the stock build on it as well. Nothing to complain about.
I could care less what the competition is doing. I am happy with my purchase and don't feel the need to validate it with sales numbers.

I don't think your crazy. Those are great devices. That doesn't doesn't mean os7 flopped though.
Everybody is so caught up into BB10 they are completely blind to what's here today.

[Farsee50]

Just look at the queues in Indonesia at the 9790 launch. Hardly a flop: rather a good way to keep the cash flowing till BB10 emerges on phones.

But in the old BB markets, anything with a keyboard is not cool even if it's still the only really viable way to do email and whole sentences on a smartphone. But note: even in Europe BB is still super-popular and selling new handsets not just in run-off till contracts expire.

Part of the problem is that older BBs were too good. They still work fine after a couple of years for what they were originally designed to do (and what most of their users still mainly do). So no urgent need to upgrade. We can hang on to our Bold 9700s for an extra year till something really transformational comes along.

But there were some big disappointments which deterred BB7 purchases. One was the big outage: that was pretty scary and infuriating. Another was the delay in getting products launched: quite a lot of us were ready to buy last summer but then the star 9900 did not appear.... and Samsung Galaxy sIIs and the iphone 4S arrived to tempt us. And they are tempting (especially the Samsung which has sold millions worldwide even though, like the iPhone, it's great for the net and apps and reading news and stuff but it's still pretty infuriating if you actually want to communicate properly by email, text, IM, WhatsApp or whatever requires words and sentences). The delay and lack of apps is what did for the Playbook too.... and we have yet to see if that is going to be resuscitated by OS2 .... if the apps arrive in time.

But then there are the details. Many of us would, for example, have bought wizzy new 9900 Bolds on launch.... but they did not have the vital signal-boosting UMA. Even the carriers were surprised by the lack of that winning feature found on earlier Bolds (and on several androids). This is finally on the new-but-old 9790s but still, in late Feb 2012, not the flagship 9900. I have a business account and we try to give people the phones that suit their needs. So the list still includes several 9700s, a couple of iPhones and even the original 9000 Bold still reliably in use, and have recently provided 9790s for new people on our account..... they have more capacity and a few new features (incl NFC and the crucial UMA) but there is not enough to get me to bother to upgrade my own 9700 phone.... making me a bit like lots of BB6 users who fear that, with 24 month contracts now predominating, they might not be eligible for a BB10 when it arrives. So even loyal keyboard-needing BB afficionados like me are not using BB7 devices (and we have a bridged BB10 Playbook and an android on the side for keeping up with news and technology). But RIM had better deliver on promises if it is going to keep us on board after summer 2012, never mind attract new enthusiasts!

[bobauckland]

1st off os7 isn't able to run on os6 devices because of the hardware requirements. You didn't do your research good enough cause there is a big jump in hardware from the 9780 to the 9900. There's no way putting them side byside resulted in compairable performance. The 9900 has double the cpu, more ram better resolution, a gpu. Because of these hardwares os6 can't run these devices.
Its not just os7's fault that some os6 apps didn't work. There is such a hardware jump. That being said there is apps that are running on os7.
Any device bridged to the PB is going to be awesome. But when its disconnected its a different story.
Price no object? The 9900 can be got now for $50. It was $200. That's not that expence for what it is.
If you still get what you want out of your 9780,that's all that matters. Continue to enjoy it. But don't make it out to be more than what it is. The new devices is at the least 2ce the devices of os6 devices.

There is a hardware jump, that doesn't mean the hardware jump was necessary for the operating system. Siri can run on an iPhone 4, it isn't allowed to cos they're pushing it as a 4S only feature, nothing to do with the hardware. RIM is pushing OS7 and wants people to buy their phones, the hardware on their OS6 devices is so solid if they said OS7 would run on it no one would upgrade.
Your argument about a hardware jump making OS6 applications unable to run seems to be bizarre, typically more powerful hardware plus a more advanced OS would mean backward compatibility should be ensured unless there is a fundamental jump, which there doesn't appear to be. It has nothing to do with a hardware upgrade, the newer Android and iPhones all run the early apps for their platform, they just run more advanced apps as well.
For a couple of hundred dollars I agree its not much. Thats on contract. You're locked in for 2 years unable to upgrade to the real upgrade when it comes. If you buy it phone only its a lot more than 200 dollars.
I think your last statement works better on you, Im glad you're happy with your 9900 but don't make it out to be more than it is. Ive got the disposable income and love my BlackBerry, Im the sort of person RIM needed to really get onboard with the OS7 devices. I couldn't wait for the 9900, despite being fresh into a 2 year contract with the 9780.
Ask me to 'upgrade' to a phone with a worse camera, worse battery life, that doesn't run as many apps as its predecessor when the main complaint about the predecessor was a lack of apps, a lack of UMA tech that is a key feature for many people and is inexplicably not present in the 9900, come on, thats a huge step down from virtually every perspective.
If you put up the 9780 at its price point against even some of the other big boys today it more than holds its own in many areas and arguably provides by far the best value for what it does.
Against the big boys at the moment, at the same price point, the 9900 does not. Mainly for hardware reasons, where poor choices have been made.
The problem is many people steer people towards the newer devices, and would be switchers look at it and go, really? If a more concerted marketing push was made for their existing OS6 devices it would have been a far better way to spend time and money.
Although this is just my opinion, clearly its fairly well reflected around the globe, because OS7 devices have not lit the world on fire at all, even existing sales is mainly down to OS6 devices, even RIM admits as much.

[belfastdispatcher]

Missinformed as usual, the 9900 does have UMA, or Wifi Calling as it's called now, it gets enabled on OS7.1. Other OS7 BBs also have an FM radio that gets enabled by 7.1, same as Wifi Hotspot.

[Farsee50]

No need to be rude. Even if it is now available, its lack to date has discouraged sales of what should be the flagship OS7 device. Orange said it would be available in Feb 2012 and maybe it just will be. But that is months are the launch of the 9900 and they did not realize it was not there at the outset. No update has been pushed to users yet and there is no carrier information (or staff training that should be supported/promoted worldwide by RIM) to encourage those of us who rely on some form of signal boost/calling via WiFi to finally go out and buy.

[bobauckland]

Missinformed as usual, the 9900 does have UMA, or Wifi Calling as it's called now, it gets enabled on OS7.1. Other OS7 BBs also have an FM radio that gets enabled by 7.1, same as Wifi Hotspot.

Before I went and acted like a genius and said UMA is now called Wifi calling Id do a little research. Does Wifi calling hand off to a network mid call? I don't think so. It is not the same as UMA. Its an inferior option. Its a step backwards. The only way to learn from mistakes is to acknowledge them, I want RIM to succeed, badly, but calling mistakes and steps backwards brilliant moves is just silly and leads to more mistakes.
Do you want to discuss the focus on the cameras next and tell me how thats an advantage too?

[belfastdispatcher]

No need to be rude. Even if it is now available, its lack to date has discouraged sales of what should be the flagship OS7 device. Orange said it would be available in Feb 2012 and maybe it just will be. But that is months are the launch of the 9900 and they did not realize it was not there at the outset. No update has been pushed to users yet and there is no carrier information (or staff training that should be supported/promoted worldwide by RIM) to encourage those of us who rely on some form of signal boost/calling via WiFi to finally go out and buy.

You have no idea what you're talking about, you automatically blame Rim but have you considered maybe the carriers weren't ready for it?

Ever wonder why the 8900 was 2G only but had UMA and why the 9000 had 3G but no UMA? Because at the time the hand over from UMA to 3G and back was impossible.

The 9900 introduced HSPA+ and more compatibility problems between networks.

Anything wrong? Let's all blame Rim first no?

[Farsee50]

I am a loyal and longstanding appreciator of RIM and a heavy user of its products (when I am somewhere I can get a signal, often with a little WiFi/UMA help). I am not blaming. I just want RIM to consider the points I raised in my earlier long post in time to get the launch of future products right. Crucially, if you keep your supporters content, the word should spread to those who are tempted by impressive tech features which do not always address their main communication needs. People on this forum could do with appreciating that we are possibly all on the same side.... and just trying to share a helpful insight from our own (ordinary consumer - so not necessarily always super-knowing) experience.

[belfastdispatcher]

Before I went and acted like a genius and said UMA is now called Wifi calling Id do a little research. Does Wifi calling hand off to a network mid call? I don't think so. It is not the same as UMA. Its an inferior option. Its a step backwards. The only way to learn from mistakes is to acknowledge them, I want RIM to succeed, badly, but calling mistakes and steps backwards brilliant moves is just silly and leads to more mistakes.
Do you want to discuss the focus on the cameras next and tell me how thats an advantage too?

Tell me, is UMA compatibile with HSPA+? Ever wonder why all Androids have Wifi calling and not UMA?

Surely you're not suggesting Rim should've made the 9900 3G only just so it could have UMA calling?

[sleepngbear]

I am a loyal and longstanding appreciator of RIM and a heavy user of its products (when I am somewhere I can get a signal, often with a little WiFi/UMA help). I am not blaming. I just want RIM to consider the points I raised in my earlier long post in time to get the launch of future products right. Crucially, if you keep your supporters content, the word should spread to those who are tempted by impressive tech features which do not always address their main communication needs. People on this forum could do with appreciating that we are possibly all on the same side.... and just trying to share a helpful insight from our own (ordinary consumer - so not necessarily always super-knowing) experience.

When such insights and preferences are presented this way and discussed in an informative and positive light, they are more than welcome by most members here. But when they are presented negatively, such as how the title of this thread gets off on yet another RIM-bashing direction (and as certain posters have perpetuated throughout), things will and do get testy. It doesn't help when people adopt their own personal assumptions as fact and use them as the basis of the same drivel in post after post. It also doesn't help when people ignore the fact that this is first and foremost a BlackBerry fan site and feel it is their God-given right to say whatever they want with no regard or consideration for the the reason the vast majority of members are here in the first place.

People also need to remember that our opinions do not necessarily reflect those of the entire smart-phone-buying public. What a relative handful of people find critically important does not outweigh what a large majority will find simply enticing. There are people in high positions with access to more marketing data than most of us would know what to do with and have a lot more experience in these matters than 99% of the armchair CEO's who post here who get to figure that out.

[avt123]

Missinformed as usual, the 9900 does have UMA, or Wifi Calling as it's called now, it gets enabled on OS7.1. Other OS7 BBs also have an FM radio that gets enabled by 7.1, same as Wifi Hotspot.

Tell me, is UMA compatibile with HSPA+? Ever wonder why all Androids have Wifi calling and not UMA?

Surely you're not suggesting Rim should've made the 9900 3G only just so it could have UMA calling?

In one sentence you say WiFi calling and UMA are the same (you say UMA is now called WiFi calling), and then in the other you say they are different (how Android has Wifi calling and not UMA).

Anyways, carry on...

[belfastdispatcher]

In one sentence you say WiFi calling and UMA are the same (you say UMA is now called WiFi calling), and then in the other you say they are different (how Android has Wifi calling and not UMA).

Anyways, carry on...

Wifi calling is uma without the hand over to the carrier's network. As far as I know everything else is the same.

[qbnkelt]

++++ 1000 on what sleepingbear said...

I will add...it is the bombastic, hyperbole infused postings of the usual suspects on this site that gets my Irish up. And I'm one negative post away from a substantial slap in the wrist, so I need to watch my tongue. Or fingers. And add loads of smilies.

Nobody is suggesting that we will all agree and sit cross legged holding hands and singing Kumbaya...difference of opinions is interesting and real. But the bombast is what is trying.

Such as the title of this thread.

[avt123]

Wifi calling is uma without the hand over to the carrier's network. As far as I know everything else is the same.

So that means they are not the same then.

[sleepngbear]

So that means they are not the same then.

What, do we have to spell it out for you? It's the same thing, only different.

[avt123]

What, do we have to spell it out for you? It's the same thing, only different.

I knew this already. I just found it funny how in one sentence he says one thing and in the next it was different. Bel and I go way back.

[belfastdispatcher]

I knew this already. I just found it funny how in one sentence he says one thing and in the next it was different. Bel and I go way back.

Well it is the same, yet different lol. How exactly would you describe it?

While you're on wifi it's exactly the same thing, only when you're on a call and want to leave the house without dropping the call that's where it differs.

Not that UMA didn't drop calls while doing the hand over, cuz it did.

UMA worked best with 2G only phones(not only blackberry)

[avt123]

Well it is the same, yet different lol. How exactly would you describe it?

While you're on wifi it's exactly the same thing, only when you're on a call and want to leave the house without dropping the call that's where it differs.

Not that UMA didn't drop calls while doing the hand over, cuz it did.

UMA worked best with 2G only phones(not only blackberry)

So if it is the same but different, it really isn't the same.

I'm just playing around I know what you mean.

Speaking of 3G/2G, you guys get anymore 3G coverage yet or is GPRS/EDGE still dominant?